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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

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I think salt-oath-allies go hand in hand, so not that crazy.

Look at 'zoutverbond' (covenant of the salt), salt as representation also in early times for unbreakable friend/partnership (use of salt in the sealing of an oath).

The purifying properties made ​​it a symbol of unbreakable faith and for that reason oaths, sometimes called 'zoutverbonden' (covenant of salt).

Salt Covenant

Unbreakable covenant.

Salt was in the time of the Old Testament an important matter of high symbolic value. A covenant sealed by the use of salt, was considered unbreakable. The sacrifice had every oblation be salted. For centuries it were as precious salt as a sign for ratification or confirmation of the sustainable or sacred character of a covenant (friendship) relationship, oath, etc. Since ancient salt was a means of payment (cf. pay (sold = salt), the wages of a soldier ). In our time, the exploitation of salt become so cheap that salt has dismissed as payment.

http://www.bijbelenc.../19/zoutverbond

Edited by Van Gorp
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I found this quote about salt covenants:

Entering into a Covenant of Salt means binding oneself to another in utmost loyalty and truthfulness, even suffering death, rather than breaking the covenant.

Pretty much inline with the description for the Soldurii by Caesar.

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allies-paid-in-salt

I have seen mainstream (oldschool) etymologies that make less sense.

Your "friends of the salt" is misleading.

Would you transalte "wapenbroeders" (brothers in arms; 'weaponbrothers') as "brothers of the weapons"?

And even if it is a 'folk-etymology', it can be a thousands-years old one.

It would not prove OLB to be a hoax.

If it was folk-etymology to explain a foreign (Roman/Latin) word, it would be no more than a 2000 years old or less.

=

My "friends of the salt" or "salt friends" may be misleading, but that is the literal translation you are bound to get when you use the OLB language.

=

Your example, "wapenbroeders", could be literally translated into "arms brothers". But whatever you make of it, it would be close to the correct translation "brothers in arms" . I think that someone whose first language is English would immediately understand what you meant.

But "salt friends"....??

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I think salt-oath-allies go hand in hand, so not that crazy.

Look at 'zoutverbond' (covenant of the salt), salt as representation also in early times for unbreakable friend/partnership (use of salt in the sealing of an oath).

The purifying properties made ​​it a symbol of unbreakable faith and for that reason oaths, sometimes called 'zoutverbonden' (covenant of salt).

Salt Covenant

Unbreakable covenant.

Salt was in the time of the Old Testament an important matter of high symbolic value. A covenant sealed by the use of salt, was considered unbreakable. The sacrifice had every oblation be salted. For centuries it were as precious salt as a sign for ratification or confirmation of the sustainable or sacred character of a covenant (friendship) relationship, oath, etc. Since ancient salt was a means of payment (cf. pay (sold = salt), the wages of a soldier ). In our time, the exploitation of salt become so cheap that salt has dismissed as payment.

http://www.bijbelenc.../19/zoutverbond

When you consider what the OLB tells us about "atha" (see my quotes from the OLB), it could only mean 'friends', or 'pals', or 'buddies, and so on.

I do know salt was an important trade item in the old times, and I also know that the one trying to make the word "salt-atha" look Old Frisian by giving it an Old Frisian twist was having a bit of fun, lol.

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If it was folk-etymology to explain a foreign (Roman/Latin) word, it would be no more than a 2000 years old or less.

=

My "friends of the salt" or "salt friends" may be misleading, but that is the literal translation you are bound to get when you use the OLB language.

=

.

No, that is what you're bound to get by using the TRANSLATION.

The word 'friends' is in the OLB and it's not atha.

atha is another word, maybe not in use anymore, also like salt-atha - so a close translational word was given, friends.

allies is good imo. Your friend under oath. A friend by way of an oath to each other. salt-allies = men paid in salt to work for you in service, to be your allies.

It appears to me to be a word in it's own right, atha and salt-atha, that was based on the word oath (become a friend/allies) and has fallen out of use.

Edited by The Puzzler

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A few Anglo-Saxon words containing oath:

Aewda: oath-giver, compurgator.

Ath: oath.

Fore-ath:, preliminary oath;

Rim-ath: oath by accused and compurgators together.

http://www.everythin...oms%3A Glossary

Seems to me a very important word in Anglo-Saxon language and meaning possibly used in many ways including someone who was considered a friend by way of a pact.

Germanic warrior culture was significantly based on oaths of fealty, directly continued into medieval notions of chivalry.

An oath (from Anglo-Saxon āð, also called plight) is either a statement of fact or a promise calling upon something or someone that the oath maker considers sacred, usually God, as a witness to the binding nature of the promise or the truth of the statement of fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath

Allies is good because you swore allegiance...

In feudal times a person would also swear allegiance to his feudal superiors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_allegiance

Origin:

before 900; Middle English ooth, Old English āth; cognate with German Eid

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oath

directly continued into medieval notions of chivalry

I actually have an Aunty Ethel (being the very English Anglo-Saxon kinda gal I am...)

Ethel

noble, honorable; noble snake; noble strength ... origin is Old English, and its use, English ...

Ethela

noble, honorable ... origin is Old English ... form of Ethel ... rare as a baby girl name ...

Ethelberga

noble fortress ... has its origins in the English ... variant of Aethelburh ... not popular as a baby name for ...

Ethelberta

nobly famous ... used mostly in English and it is of ... name was borne by a central character in ...

Ethelburg

noble fortress ... origin, as well as its use, is in the English ... variant of Aethelburh ...

Ethelburga

noble fortress ... origin and use are both in the English language ... variant form of Aethelburh ...

Etheld

noble, honorable ... has its origins in the Old English ... variant of Ethel ...

Ethelda

noble, honorable ... has its origins in the Old English ... variant form of Ethel ...

Ethelde

noble, honorable ... of Old English origin ... derivative of Ethel ... uncommon as a baby girl name ...

Etheldred

noble strength ... primarily used in the English ... contraction of Etheldreda ...

Etheldreda

noble strength ... used chiefly in English and it is ... name was borne by Saint Etheldreda...

http://www.babynamespedia.com/start/f/eth

Edited by The Puzzler

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No, that is what you're bound to get by using the TRANSLATION.

The word 'friends' is in the OLB and it's not atha.

atha is another word, maybe not in use anymore, also like salt-atha - so a close translational word was given, friends.

allies is good imo. Your friend under oath. A friend by way of an oath to each other. salt-allies = men paid in salt to work for you in service, to be your allies.

It appears to me to be a word in it's own right, atha and salt-atha, that was based on the word oath (become a friend/allies) and has fallen out of use.

Now look again at this sentence from the OLB:

7. Lêt maen hja aefternêi hlâpa, sâ lêt maen thaet mith welhêd thrvch tha fâmna dva, til thju wi âtha aend frjunda winna fori lêtha aend fyandun.

7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the maidens, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.

Nothing suggests any relation with an "oath".

But it does suggest something opposite of 'hater'.

And don't forget: the OLB is supposed to have been put onto paper in the 6th century BCE for the first time. That is like 1600 years older than your sources.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Or this:

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.

By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends.

Here âtha may not mean ''friends", but what has any 'oath' to do with people meeting each other for the first time?

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A new one:

Drêi as hja thju hâva innomth hêde wildon tha wilda salt-âtha thaet thorp aend vsa skipa birâwa. Ên salt-âthe hêde al en bukja skaend, men Sêkrops wilde thaet navt ne haengja,

When they had taken our harbour, the wild soldiers wanted to plunder the village and our ships—one had already ravished a girl—but Cecrops would not permit it;

(MS 073/line 22)

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bc

So the OLB "bukja" is supposed to mean "girl" according to Ottema/Sandbach.

The only similar sounding word is a Frisian first name, Boukje/Baukje, which is derived form "badu" (=strong). According to others it's derived from "Baue" (and then "Baukje" would be its diminutive form).

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauke

http://www.betekenis-babynamen.nl/naam/Baue

Another similar word is "bokje", or 'young goat'.

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A closely related word in English is "buck":

buck (n.1)

"male deer," c.1300, earlier "male goat;" from Old English bucca "male goat," from Proto-Germanic *bukkon (cf. Old Saxon buck, Middle Dutch boc, Dutch bok, Old High German boc, German Bock, Old Norse bokkr), perhaps from a PIE root *bhugo (cf. Avestan buza "buck, goat," Armenian buc "lamb"), but some speculate that it is from a lost pre-Germanic language. Barnhart says Old English buc "male deer," listed in some sources, is a "ghost word or scribal error."

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

The OLB "bukja" is the diminutive form of "buk"

And what did this "salt-athe" do with the "bukja? He ''ravished" it according to Sandbach.

Ên salt-âthe hêde al en bukja skaend

Eén soldaat had al een bokje (ge)schonden

("Geschonden" is the past participle of "schenden" = to defile)

One soldier had already defiled a ... little buck??

LOL. Perverts.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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lêtha aend fyandun / haters and enemies

"Haters" is Sandbach's translation of Ottema's "haters"

Oldfrisian dictionaries:

De Haan Hettema (1832 and 1874) => vijand => enemy

Richthofen (1840) => böse => angry, evil

Edited by gestur

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"Haters" is Sandbach's translation of Ottema's "haters"

Oldfrisian dictionaries:

De Haan Hettema (1832 and 1874) => vijand => enemyRichthofen (1840) => böse => angry, evil

And what is the opposite of someone who hates? Because that is what the OLB suggests for the meaning of âtha.

De Haan Hettema (1832 and 1874) => vijand => enemy Richthofen (1840) => böse => angry, evil

Or the opposite of "enemy"?

That can only be "friend", right?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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One soldier had already defiled a ... little buck??

LOL. Perverts.

WTF are you talking about?

"Buik, in onze bet., in 't mnl. ook balch geheeten; ook in die van moederlijf" (http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...&lemmodern=buik) => belly, mother's body

Your attempts to ridicule the OLB (through its language) don't favor your credibility.

Edited by gestur

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Or the opposite of "enemy"?

That can only be "friend", right?

or ally (dutch: bondgenoot); not exactly the same as friend

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Playing with words will never prove the OLB.

Playing with words will never disprove the OLB.

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WTF are you talking about?

"Buik, in onze bet., in 't mnl. ook balch geheeten; ook in die van moederlijf" (http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...&lemmodern=buik) => belly, mother's body

Your attempts to ridicule the OLB (through its language) don't favor your credibility.

Do you have any etymology for "bukja"?

You haven't, right?

Nothing at all that comes close to anything meaning "girl".

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Playing with words will never disprove the OLB.

But I am only playing your game.

Mangle words, and come to a 'conclusion'....

Like I said many times: it will be archeology that will prove or disprove the OLB, not lego-linguistics.

It's a kid's game, it's nonsense.

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And when are you going to admit you are "Otharus"?

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or ally (dutch: bondgenoot); not exactly the same as friend

Right, not exactly the same as 'friend', and NOT the opposite of 'enemy'.

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Do you have any etymology for "bukja"?

You haven't, right?

Nothing at all that comes close to anything meaning "girl".

Simple.

If BUK (buik) can mean "mother's body" (moederlijf), then the diminutive BUKJA can mean "young mother's body" => girl

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Right, not exactly the same as 'friend', and NOT the opposite of 'enemy'.

If you google the combination enemies and allies, you'll see that they are often used as opposites, which of course they are (just like enemies and friends, or friends and foes).

kevin-anderson-enemies-allies.jpg

Edited by gestur

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WTF are you talking about?

"Buik, in onze bet., in 't mnl. ook balch geheeten; ook in die van moederlijf" (http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...&lemmodern=buik) => belly, mother's body

Your attempts to ridicule the OLB (through its language) don't favor your credibility.

I found these:

būk 23, bū-k, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Bauch, Rumpf; ne. belly, trunk; ÜG.: lat. venter AB (9, 27); Vw.: s. -fest, -fest-e, -lam-ithe, -wu-n-d-e; Hw.: vgl. got. *būks, an. būkr, ae. būc, anfrk. būk, ahd. būh, plattd. buuk; Q.: S, W, E, AB (9, 27); E.: germ. *būka-, *būkaz, st. M. (a), Bauch, Leib; s. idg. *beu- (2), *bu-, *bʰeū̆-, *bʰū̆-, V., blasen, schwellen, Pokorny 98; W.: nfries. buwck; W.: saterl. buc; L.: Hh 13a, Rh 673a

būkfest 1 und häufiger, bū-k-fest, afries., Adj.: nhd. „bauchfest“, mannbar; ne. marriageable; E.: s. bū-k, fest (2); L.: Hh 13a

būkfeste 1 und häufiger, bū-k-fest-e, afries., F.: nhd. Mannbarkeit; ne. puberty; E.: s. bū-k, *fest-e (3); L.: Hh 13a

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/afries/afries_b.html

All relating to what appears to be a girls journey to womanhood, with her swollen belly, possibly meaning a pregnant girl - or a young girl of marriageable age.

Edited by The Puzzler
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And when are you going to admit you are "Otharus"?

Why אברהם, so you can backstab me like you did him?

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What has not been noted yet, is that the word for soldiers SALT.ÁTHA, is not used for warriers/ defenders of the Fryans themselves.

It can therefore originally be like a sobriquet (mocking-/ scoffing-word):

'friends'/ 'allies' as long as they get paid (with salt).

Fragments:

1. Gértmen

[073/14]

SALT.ATHA FON THA WILDE BERCHFOLKUM

[073/18]

DRÉI AS HJA THJU HÁVA INNOMTH HÉDE.

WILDON THA WILDA SALT.ÁTHA THÀT THORP ÀND VSA SKIPA BIRÁWA.

ÉN SALT.ÁTHE HÉDE AL EN BUKJA SKÀND.

[074/25]

THENE KÉNING FON THÍRHIS ÀFTERNÉI SJANDE

THAT SIN ALDERBESTA STJURAR WÉI BRIT WÉREN

SAND AL SIN SKIPA MITH SINA WILDE SALT.ÁTHA

VMBER DÁD JEFTA LÉVAND TO FÁTANE

2. Ljudgért I

[121/25]

NW GVNG.ER [:ALEXANDRE] TO ÀND KÁS ALTHAM UT SIN FOLK ÀND UT SINA SALT.ATHA

THÉR WENATH WÉRON WR.NE SÉ TO FÁRANE

[122/05]

HI [:ALEXANDRE] HÉDE SINA SALT.ATHA BÁMA KAPJA LÉTA

[122/10]

THACH THA SALT.ATHA THÉR FON THET BERG.LAND KÉMON WÉRON ANG TO FARA SÉ.

[122/19]

HI WILDE THA SALT.ATHA THRVCH SIN AJN FOLK OMBRENSA LÉTA

[123/20]

THA WI BI THÉRE ÉUPHRAT KÉMON.

GVNG NÉARCHUS MITH THA SALT.ATHA ÀND FÉLO FON SIN FOLK WAL VP

[125/03]

FORTH GVNGON WI SALT.ÁTHA LIFTOCHTA ÀND WÉPNE FÁRA

[125/18]

DÉMÉTRIUS WN THÉRE KÉSE.

THA NAVT THRVCH SINA SALT.ÁTHA

[125/25]

AFTERNÉI GVNG DÉMTRIUS LÁS VP HRODUS.

THÉR HINNE BROCHTON WI SINA SALT.ÁTHA ÁND LIFTOCHTA WR

3. Ljudgért II

[165/11]

THISA MINSKA SIND WÉRENTLIK ÍRA BONAR.

THÉR AMMER MITH HJARA HORSA VP OVERA FJELDA DWÁLA.

THÉR AMMER JÁGJA ÀND RÁWA

ÀND THÉR HJARA SELVA ALS SALT.ÁTHA FORHÉRA ANTHA OMHÉMMANDE FORSTA

4. Rika's letter

[190/22]

FORI THENE SKÀT THAM THÉROF KÉM

HÉRADON HJA VRLANDISKA SALT.ÁTHA.

5. Black Adel

[197/11]

HÉMIS DÉGA SEND HJA MITH VSA VRBRUDA BROTHARUM ÀND HJARA SALT.ÁTHUM

AL OVERA SKELDA KVMEN.

[197/26]

THA GOLA MÉJEATH THEN THA NITHER LÉGA

FON HJARA HELPAR AND SALT.ÁTHUM VPPA VSA FJELDUM SKRÍWA

MITH.ET BLOD THÀT UT HJARA WNDUM DRJUPTH

[201/19]

THÀT FOLK WÉRMITH HI WITH THA SALT.ÁTHUM THERA GOLUM KÀMPED HÉDE

HÉD.ER UT.A SAXANA.MARKUM LVKTH

MITH LOFTE FON GRÁTE HÉRA.RÁVE ÀND BUT

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