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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

But the OLB suggests it's called 'bad' or 'angry' (BALDA, see Otharus' posts in part I of this thread) because of what happened in the Baltic.

I don't think that's what OLB suggests.

It only says "BALDA JEFTA KWÁDE SÉ" = Balda or bad/ evil/ angry sea.

This can mean two things:

The sea was known both as BALDA SÉ and as KWÁDE SÉ, or that BALDA and KWÁDE have the same meaning.

Edited by Otharus

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I have no problems at all with the Balda Sea being the Baltic Sea.

But the OLB suggests it's called 'bad' or 'angry' (BALDA, see Otharus' posts in part I of this thread) because of what happened in the Baltic.

But DID something happen in the Baltic Sea that caused it to get a new name?

Where are those volcanoes that erupted 306 BC?

Is there proof of massive flooding around the Baltic dating from 306 BC?

I think there is some sort of proof of flood happening around that time here in the Netherlands: it was formerly called the Dunkirk III Transgression (until the scientists dropped that theory, not the floodings).

You mean this description for volcanoes?

When our land was submerged I was in Schoonland. It was very bad there. There were great lakes which rose from the earth like bubbles, then burst asunder, and from the rents flowed a stuff like red-hot iron. The tops of high mountains fell and destroyed whole forests and villages. I myself saw one mountain torn from another and fall straight down. When I afterwards went to see the place there was a lake there.

They may be something else, great lakes that rose from the earth like bubbles then burst out lava type stuff do not sound like volcanoes exactly but some kind of air vent action out of the lakes.

But did something happen? You mean out of the OLB? Because within the OLB I explained it could easily have been seen as a bad sea after the horrendous flooding that made the Jutlanders etc move south.

There was the Cimbrian Flood you mentioned.

The Cymbrian flood (or Cimbrian flood) was a large-scale incursion of the sea in the region of the Jutland peninsula in the period 120 to 114 BC, resulting in a permanent alteration of the coastline with much land lost. This disaster killed many, and sent others living in the area south, in search of new lands. It was one of a number of such conflagrations of nature in northwest Europe during the Roman period, the climate between 300 BC and about 100 AD producing frequent storms and the blowing of sand near the coast

This says around 120 BC but it also says from 300BC their was frequent storms and I'm not sure how accurate within 200 years that dating of the Cimbrian Flood actually is. Strabo thinks the large scale movement of these people c. 120 Cimbrian Flood is nonsense.

Thinking about c. 300BC and all those Celts invading Roman areas, long before 120BC...

How about this reference (to Frisia at least but could mean more area than just that):

The Greek historian Ephoros of Cyme in Asia Minor, writing in the 4th century BC, believed that the Celts came from the islands off the mouth of the Rhine and were "driven from their homes by the frequency of wars and the violent rising of the sea".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

Islands off the Rhine and mention of RISING SEAS (and war). Hmm.

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Posted (edited)

I actually find that reference very interesting, I could start a thread on that - the Celts came from the islands at the mouth of the Rhine did they? That would make them Frisians, since they inhabited the area at the time, Minerva lived there once, Nyhellenia, all that. Because this is the timeframe they started their migrations south, c. 300BC, I find this a very realistic scenario.

R1b (U106) is from what they think is a Proto-Celtic people, which is exactly centred in Frisia. Imo this indicates that it could be the Fryans who were R1b (U106) and also the Proto-CEltic people who were at Hallstatt.

The spread of iron-working led to the development of the Hallstatt culture directly from the Urnfield (ca. 700 to 500 BC). Proto-Celtic, the latest common ancestor of all known Celtic languages, is considered by this school of thought to have been spoken at the time of the late Urnfield or early Hallstatt cultures, in the early 1st millennium BC. The spread of the Celtic languages to Iberia, Ireland and Britain would have occurred during the first half of the 1st millennium BC, the earliest chariot burials in Britain dating to c. 500 BC. Other scholars see Celtic languages as covering Britain and Ireland, and parts of the Continent, long before any evidence of "Celtic" culture is found in archaeology. Over the centuries the language(s) developed into the separate Celtiberian, Goidelic and Brythonic languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

The interesting thing with the OLB is the word barn for child, not Germanic/English child/kinder - this to me, has always indicated an earlier than Germanic language - and a different language than Germanic as well - a proto-Celtic language - which from all indications, is what the OLB language might even be. Note 'Celtic language' in Britain before so called Celtic culture - possibly became the Fryans were not Celtic as such until the developments from Central Europe were part of their realm - prior to that, they spoke the language, travelled to Britain and were a Fryan Proto-Celtic people.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

This is what I have linked to a couple of times now, but I will quote the whole episode:

THE WRITINGS OF FRÊTHORIK AND WILJOW

(,,,)

As a wild horse tosses his mane after he has thrown his rider, so Irtha shook her forests and her mountains.

Rivers flowed over the land; the sea raged; mountains spouted fire to the clouds, and what they vomited forth the clouds flung upon the earth.

At the beginning of the Arnemaand the earth bowed towards the north, and sank down lower and lower.

In the Welvenmaand the low lands of Fryasland were buried under the sea.

The woods in which the images were, were torn up and scattered by the wind.

The following year the frost came in the Hardemaand and laid Fryasland concealed under a sheet of ice.

In Sellemaand there were storms of wind from the north, driving mountains of ice and stones.

When the spring-tides came the earth raised herself up, the ice melted; with the ebb the forests with the images drifted out to sea.

In the Winne, or Minnemaand, every one who dared went home.

I came with a maiden to the citadel Liudgaarde.

How sad it looked there. The forests of the Lindaoorden were almost all gone. Where Liudgaarde used to be was sea. The waves swept over the fortifications. Ice had destroyed the tower, and the houses lay heaped over each other. On the slope of the dyke I found a stone on which the writer had inscribed his name. That was a sign to me. The same thing had happened to other citadels as to ours. In the upper lands they had been destroyed by the earth, in the lower lands by the water. Fryasburgt, at Texland, was the only one found uninjured, but all the land to the north was sunk under the sea, and has never been recovered. At the mouth of the Flymeer, as we were told, thirty salt swamps were found, consisting of the forest and the ground that had been swept away. At Westflyland there were fifty. The canal which had run across the land from Alderga was filled up with sand and destroyed. The seafaring people and other travellers who were at home had saved themselves, their goods, and their relations upon their ships. But the black people at Lydasburgt and Alkmarum had done the same; and as they went south they saved many girls, and as no one came to claim them, they took them for their wives. The people who came back all lived within the lines of the citadel, as outside there was nothing but mud and marsh. The old houses were all smashed together. People bought cattle and sheep from the upper lands, and in the great houses where formerly the maidens were established cloth and felt were made for a livelihood. This happened 1888 years after the submersion of Atland.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bo

And the Cimbrian flood was mentioned by the 17th century Frisian historian Chr. Schotanus; he dated it at 360 or 350 BC.

And yes, I asked if something like the above happened, OUTSIDE the OLB, and in the BALTIC area.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I actually find that reference very interesting, I could start a thread on that - the Celts came from the islands at the mouth of the Rhine did they? That would make them Frisians, since they inhabited the area at the time, Minerva lived there once, Nyhellenia, all that. Because this is the timeframe they started their migrations south, c. 300BC, I find this a very realistic scenario.

Caesar considered (part of) the Belgii (sp??) tribe as Celts, yes, and they lived south of the mouth of the Rhine.

The Frisians were a Germanic tribe.

On the other hand, Celts and Germans lived criss cross all over Northern Europe

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Posted (edited)

Caesar considered (part of) the Belgii (sp??) tribe as Celts, yes, and they lived south of the mouth of the Rhine.

The Frisians were a Germanic tribe.

On the other hand, Celts and Germans lived criss cross all over Northern Europe

I added this as a late edit which you may have missed:

R1b (U106) is from what they think is a Proto-Celtic people, which is exactly centred in Frisia. Imo this indicates that it could be the Fryans who were R1b (U106) and also the Proto-CEltic people who were at Hallstatt.

The spread of iron-working led to the development of the Hallstatt culture directly from the Urnfield (ca. 700 to 500 BC). Proto-Celtic, the latest common ancestor of all known Celtic languages, is considered by this school of thought to have been spoken at the time of the late Urnfield or early Hallstatt cultures, in the early 1st millennium BC. The spread of the Celtic languages to Iberia, Ireland and Britain would have occurred during the first half of the 1st millennium BC, the earliest chariot burials in Britain dating to c. 500 BC. Other scholars see Celtic languages as covering Britain and Ireland, and parts of the Continent, long before any evidence of "Celtic" culture is found in archaeology. Over the centuries the language(s) developed into the separate Celtiberian, Goidelic and Brythonic languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

The interesting thing with the OLB is the word barn for child, not Germanic/English child/kinder - this to me, has always indicated an earlier than Germanic language - and a different language than Germanic as well - a proto-Celtic language - which from all indications, is what the OLB language might even be. Note 'Celtic language' in Britain before so called Celtic culture - possibly became the Fryans were not Celtic as such until the developments from Central Europe were part of their realm - prior to that, they spoke the language, travelled to Britain and were a Fryan Proto-Celtic people.

At Caesars time they might have merged into Germanic, he's a Johnny Come Lately compared to Ephoros. By his time things had massively changed from the 4th millenium. This holds water imo - the Celts were Fryans/Frisians.

----------------------------------------

OK, Baltic in reality 350BC and mountains spouted fire to the clouds.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

You make the common mistake: Germanic is NOT German, but German IS Germanic.

Call it "Nordic" if you like. The Norse, Danish and Swedes (not sure of them) also use barn.

And BARN is GE_BORENE in Dutch, or offspring, someone who is 'born'. It's a normal Germanic/Nordic word. One Germanic language uses it as noun, another uses it as verb. That happens often.

But we now use 'kind', you use 'child', the Germans use 'Kind'.

It's not a big mystery, it's simply that some countries prefer to use one word, other countries the other word.

++++++++

EDIT:

I have also read here and there that the Cimbri, who fled out of Denmark, were Celts.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

I don't think that's what OLB suggests.

It only says "BALDA JEFTA KWÁDE SÉ" = Balda or bad/ evil/ angry sea.

This can mean two things:

The sea was known both as BALDA SÉ and as KWÁDE SÉ, or that BALDA and KWÁDE have the same meaning.

Yes, and you are very right.

For god knows what reason I have been connecting things that are not (necessarily) connected.

It's because Konered refers to the flood (306 BC) as described by his father Frethorik when he starts talking about how the Juts and Lets came from the Baltic Sea or Angry ("Kwade") Sea.

I think some neurons mis-fired in my brains, lol.

It started when I wondered why the Baltic would be called the 'angry sea' when all the scheise had happened in the North Sea area. And that the North Sea doesn't even have a name in the OLB, unless I am right about it being Wralda's Sea.

Or maybe the North Sea is another candidate for the Middle Sea. Then we have 4 of them, heh.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I am not done with the OLB 306 BC event yet.

If there were volcanoes erupting, then I think it were volcanoes in Iceland.

Only a century before the OLB was published, the Laki volcano erupted and caused the death of many millions of people

Atmospheric and environmental effects of the 1783–1784 Laki eruption: A review and reassessment

Thorvaldur Thordarson and Stephen Self

http://seismo.berkeley.edu/~manga/LIPS/thordarson03.pdf

And enter "Holland": there was massive ice formation in the North Sea as an effect of this eruption. People could skate on sea ice from Noordwijk to Scheveningen, that's about 25 kilometers (17 miles)

The Laki eruption and its aftermath has been estimated to have killed over six million people[5] globally, making it the deadliest volcanic eruption in historical times. The drop in temperatures, due to the sulphuric dioxide gases spewed into the northern hemisphere, caused crop failures in Europe, droughts in India, and Japan's worst famine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki

Death toll:

Unknown precisely: perhaps 6 million,[1] including a million in Japan,[2] a similar number in France,[2] many in the rest of northern Europe and in Egypt. Killed 9,350 people in Iceland, about 25% of the island's population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanic_eruptions_by_death_toll

:

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There have been many examples where the Westfrisian dialect (sometimes that of Texel) offers better explanations for OLB-words than known (Old-) Frisian. It might also be one of the reasons why some proud nationalist Frisians did not like the OLB, because it suggested that their dialect was actually not older than Dutch, just another variety of Old-'Frisian'. I have suggested before (like in my Frisones video), that the 'Fryan' Old-Frisian might actually more be Old-Westfrisian.

This map has been in my mind for a while.

Now I finally made it (using a reconstucted map of Roman times):

texland_NWfliland.jpg

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Posted (edited)

You make the common mistake: Germanic is NOT German, but German IS Germanic.

Call it "Nordic" if you like. The Norse, Danish and Swedes (not sure of them) also use barn.

And BARN is GE_BORENE in Dutch, or offspring, someone who is 'born'. It's a normal Germanic/Nordic word. One Germanic language uses it as noun, another uses it as verb. That happens often.

But we now use 'kind', you use 'child', the Germans use 'Kind'.

It's not a big mystery, it's simply that some countries prefer to use one word, other countries the other word.

++++++++

EDIT:

I have also read here and there that the Cimbri, who fled out of Denmark, were Celts.

.

I just need to edit this post.

Edited by The Puzzler

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I am not done with the OLB 306 BC event yet.

If there were volcanoes erupting, then I think it were volcanoes in Iceland.

Only a century before the OLB was published, the Laki volcano erupted and caused the death of many millions of people

Atmospheric and environmental effects of the 1783–1784 Laki eruption: A review and reassessment

Thorvaldur Thordarson and Stephen Self

http://seismo.berkel...hordarson03.pdf

And enter "Holland": there was massive ice formation in the North Sea as an effect of this eruption. People could skate on sea ice from Noordwijk to Scheveningen, that's about 25 kilometers (17 miles)

The Laki eruption and its aftermath has been estimated to have killed over six million people[5] globally, making it the deadliest volcanic eruption in historical times. The drop in temperatures, due to the sulphuric dioxide gases spewed into the northern hemisphere, caused crop failures in Europe, droughts in India, and Japan's worst famine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki

Death toll:

Unknown precisely: perhaps 6 million,[1] including a million in Japan,[2] a similar number in France,[2] many in the rest of northern Europe and in Egypt. Killed 9,350 people in Iceland, about 25% of the island's population.

http://en.wikipedia....s_by_death_toll

:

I'm doing the volcano thing as well, here's what I have:

OK, this doesn't say 350BC but that date is very interesting, as the timeframe for the Sea Peoples and Bronze Age collapse.

One of the largest Holocene eruptions in Iceland was the Hekla 3 (or H3) eruption of (950 BC[15]) (1159 BC[16]) which threw about 7.3 km3[9] of volcanic rock into the atmosphere, placing its Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) at 5. This would have cooled temperatures in the northern parts of the globe for a few years afterwards. Traces of this eruption have been identified in Scottish peat bogs, and in Ireland a study of tree rings dating from this period has shown negligible tree ring growth for a decade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hekla

Average?: The earliest recorded eruption of Hekla took place in 1104, since then there have been between twenty and thirty considerable eruptions,

In 1000 years Hekla has erupted around 30 times, so from 1100BC to 1000BC, it would not be improbable for Helka to have erupted at least another 20-30 times, of which an eruption at 350BC may not be recorded or known but could have easily occurred.

--------------------------------------------

Earlier writers seem to have glowing reports of Fryan type Celts Hellanicus of Lesbos, an historian of the fifth century B.C., describes the Celts as practising justice and righteousness. Ephorus, about 350 B.C., has three lines of verse about the Celts in which they are described as using" the same customs as the Greeks " - whatever that may mean - and being on the friendliest terms with that people, who established guest friend-ships among them.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/mlcr/mlcr01.htm

But then they seem to degenerate into the 'barbaric warrior' type.

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Frisian has no cild or child, they say ancient barn, a Celtic word

'Bern' is still very common in modern Frisian (singular and plural).

I think it is related to past perfect of the verb 'to bear' (to carry).

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'Bern' is still very common in modern Frisian (singular and plural).

I think it is related to past perfect of the verb 'to bear' (to carry).

It is:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bear&allowed_in_frame=0

>>> http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/geboren

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Posted (edited)

'Bern' is still very common in modern Frisian (singular and plural).

I think it is related to past perfect of the verb 'to bear' (to carry).

I would think it is.

Frisian does have kind as child, but it's not used in the OLB indicating it could be a newer word, not actually an original word of Fryan.

The etymologies are very complex with bear and hard to work out there is so many offshoots they mostly relate to bear, both verb and noun, also barn, as in seed house - the whole structure of farming is based in the seed inside the pod, which is a baby born in a barn.

---------------------

OK Abe, I think I see what you mean with child as kind - but I know what I mean too - I'll think about it some more.

Edited by The Puzzler

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The info you posted about Hekla, Puzz, is peanuts compared to what the Laki volcano was capable of.

But no traces of an (Icelandic) volcanic eruption has been found for the 306 BC date that equals the 18th century eruption of the Laki volcano.

And the OLB talks in plural, btw, so it wasn't just one volcano having the hiccups. That would have been noticable for geologists.

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Exactly what I just said about the Cimbrian Flood being too late as a flooding and migration from the Rhine mouth is mentioned much earlier.

In many texts, the so-called "Cymbrian (or Kymbrian) flood" of the coasts around the German Bight is reputed to be responsible for setting off a migration of Celtic tribes. [23] (This is quoted by Lamb with the date range given at the head of this paragraph; but there's something odd here: the source is the Greek writer Strabo (living in what was at the time part of the Roman Empire), who lived ~63/64BC to 24AD, who in turn was quoting earlier writers (also Greek). In particular, Strabo comments upon the writings of Clitarchus (or Cleitarchus), who tells the tale of horsemen not being able to outrun an incoming (?flood?) tide and who is credited with living in the 'last quarter of the third century BC', or before 300BC. This means that this so-called 'flood' must have been some two or more centuries before the date given here! The idea of a single flood event setting off a wholesale migration is also difficult to comprehend - more likely a series of damaging floods / storm events, in the area that we now know as the Dutch polder-lands. This timing [ i.e. latter part of the fourth century BC ] would also tie in well with the suspected downturn in climate fortunes, with increased storminess across NW Europe and general cooling [ see 650BC - 200BC comments above.)

http://booty.org.uk/booty.weather/climate/4000_100BC.htm

But it is hard to find anything like the conditions mentioned geologically around 300BC. I don't see it impossible though that Icelandic volcanoes were erupting and are not recorded or known about properly to be dated. What we do know is that from 400-100BC heavy, damaging flooding is present but nothing too dramatic like volcanic eruptions are mentioned.

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I don't get what you say about the Cimbrian Flood being too late: the Frisian historian Schotanus assumed it had occurred in either 360 or 350 BC.

And you know how I think by now, lol: 360 >> 306??

The Laki eruption caused all that mayhem, not directly by the eruption itself, but by what the incredible amount of ashes did to crops, live stock, and the weather.

And it started and ended its activity at about the same time the OLB 306 BC event started and ended.

Would anyone in the 19th century have remembered the Laki eruption and its effects? I am sure of it: they may not have been direct witnesses, but they must have heard from their parents and grandparents.

The eruption began on June 8, 1783. Until July 29 activity was confined to the fissure southwest of Mount Laki. On July 29 the fissure northeast of the mountain became active, and from that time almost all activity was confined to that half of the fissure. The eruption lasted until early February 1784, and it is considered to be the greatest lava eruption on Earth in historical times. The commonly accepted figure for the volume of lava extruded is about 2.95 cubic miles (12.3 cubic km); that for the area covered, about 220 square miles (565 square km). The enormous quantity of volcanic gases that was released caused a conspicuous haze over most of continental Europe; haze was even reported in Syria, in the Altai Mountains in western Siberia, and in North Africa. The vast quantities of sulfurous gases stunted crops and grasses and killed most of the domestic animals in Iceland; the resulting Haze Famine eventually killed about one-fifth of Iceland’s population (and 6 million in the rest of the world).

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/328272/Laki

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Posted (edited)

Puzz, I found something especially for you:

The OERA LINDA SOCIETY is open to any woman who seeks perfection and keeps her body, mind and spirit pure by:

1. Abstaining from sex, orgasm, meat and intoxicants.

2. Only wearing the short white tohnekka (pictured).

3. Performing 1,200 knee-bend exercises every day.

To join, simply register on this site as a member, or contact us for more details. There is no membership fee, and all trainees are given an instructor.

The knee-bending exercise is known as the Sachsengruss, and is demonstrated on this 1930s newsreel (at 2:30 minutes into the clip). Our members perform the Sachsengruss 1,200 times a day in 2 shifts, or 600 times per shift. The shifts last 3 hours each, AM and PM.

We derive our philosophy from the Oera Linda Book, an ancient Frisian manuscript that tells us of a lost civilisation in the North Sea, destroyed in 2194 BC. The people of this civilisation, and their descendants, the Frisians, were ruled over by an elite order of perfected women, known as fâmna, priestesses of the Goddess Frya. Our aim is to recreate this order for the modern age.

http://oeralinda.web...ralindabook.htm

Kind regards, Tony Steele

LOL.

++++++++++

EDIT:

Petronella Bais, 1897–1971

(Founder of the Society)

.

That's interesting: wasn't there someone with the name Bais member of the Over de Linden family??

I checked Knul's site, but couldn't find thsi Petronella.

III-d ‎ ‏Petronella Bais

Geb. ‎± 1897 te Den Helder‎. Dochter van Thomas Bais en Jannetje de Boer‏

Thomas Bais‏‎

Geb. ‎± 1865 te Enkhuizen‎. Beroep(en): visscher. Zoon van Pieter Bais en Jantje over de Linden‏

http://www.genealogiedenhelder.nl/db/gezin.php?database=denh_&id=F9597&hoofdpersoon=I18240&parenteel=1

http://www.genealogiedenhelder.nl/db/gezin.php?bronnen_weergeven=1

.

Edited by Abramelin

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From what I read "Vlaanderen" has a totally different etymology (see Wiki), and nothing like "Flielanden". I found "Flielanden" on exactly one site which has some other weird theories too.

And it strikes you you didn't read about "makia"??

Well, then you read too fast lol. It's either the Frisian "makia" meaning "to make" or it means "sword" (see Vimose, Fyn island, Denmark, close to Odense, the traditional birthplace of Odin/Wodan).

And Lemmer, which I think is Lumka-makia, means 'worker who helps with the slaughter of whales" / "part of a knife"/ "part of a sword" / "bare blade" / "wick of a lamp or candle".

I also posted about both a Danish and Frisian word "Lumsk" which means sly, cunning, treacherous.

.

OK thnx.

Below my and seemingly also other's idea's about the word 'Vlaanderen'.

WIKI gives the right description: "overstroomd gebied" (flooded area)

but as usual coming with a Latin origin "Flandrensis", deducted from "flâm", which on his turn is described as

“een Ingveoonse vorm van het Germaanse flauma, dat "overstroomd gebied" betekent”

So, what WIKI actually says is "Vlaanderen" -> coming from the Latinised version of "flooded area"

But, as we know: Latin was not the original language spoken here.

Latin actually, is not that old as pretended and tend to use local names and make a Latinised version of it

(-> more Latin texts are found in France and Germany than in Italy sic!, same with Greek in Greece)

"Phleu/Fleu" (nowadays Vloeien, Vloeden, Vlied, Vlieden) -> flood of the sea ('t Vleut, 't VLied) -> Fleu-Landern (or Flie-Landern) -> pronounced Fl-Landern

The 'Vlemschen' (Phleu-menschen, Phlemschen, Flemschen,Pleumosii in Latin) are people living around the estuarium -> or now mostly called the 'Vlamschen' (Vlam-inghen)

Below just for reference (and the relevant parts are translated above ;-)

Vlemsch.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Even most of what you posted hints at a root like Phlem or Phleum or Phlam and not Phleu/Fleu.

Btw: the word 'menschen' (men, people, or 'mensen' in modern Dutch) is a quite modern word.

I liked this one:

Pleumosii, a people of Belgic Gaul

http://www.perseus.t...&can=pleumosii0

I think that if the spelling had been Fleumossi, some Belgians would have rolled over the floor with laughter !!

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Thread continued from: Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood (Original)

About the Baltic being a 'bad/angry sea'...

I think that is crap etymology.

The North Sea is much more dangerous than the Baltic ever was. In thousands of years many millions have drowned because the North Sea was 'angry'.

One of it's oldest (Frisian?) names was ""Hell". Many placenames in the Netherlands still have the word 'Hel' in them.

Even the OLB mentions floods that must have occurred in the North Sea area.

Btw, does the OLB ever give a name for the North Sea?

Not really, unless it is "Wralda's Sea", like I suggested a long time ago.

,

The root meaning for the prefix Hel,Heli in Francish-Germanic and Norse means Holy not Hell.

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Posted (edited)

The root meaning for the prefix Hel,Heli in Francish-Germanic and Norse means Holy not Hell.

Hi Erudite Celt, welcome to UM.

What you suggested could be true, and sounds even likely.

In another thread. the "Doggerland" thread I have talked a lot about this 'Hel', and what it might mean.

An example of what I posted (and click on the whitish blob, left of my username in that quoted post, and you will arrive at that thread):

"Hell" as the ancient name of the North Sea hasn't anything to do with Hellas (Greece), it's one of many spellings of the ancient name of the North Sea (also Hulda, Harla, Halla, and so on - search this forum, and you will eventually come to a page in this thread )

The Hellweg

By Joannes Richter

In the Middle Ages the Hellweg was an ancient east-west route through Germany, from Duisburg to Paderborn. The Hellweg, as an essential corridor that operated in overland transit of long-distance trade, was used by Charlemagne in his Saxon wars. This book reports the traces of trading routes called „Hellweg“ between Duisburg up to Frankfurt at the Oder and to Hamburg. Just like the Way of St. James the trading route Hellweg spreads towards the East in numerous directions. Obviously the Hellweg may have been called the Highway to Holland, respectively the Highway to Hell, which has been the name for the North Sea

http://www.lulu.com/..._search_results

A number of Hellweg-routes may be identified in Germany. The best-known „Hellweg“ is to be found as an east-west -route for a medieval Rhein-Elbe-interconnection along the hills in the middle of Germany. In particular the main route has been reserved for the traject between Duisburg and Paderborn. This west-falic route may have existed well over 5000 years, starting at the Rhine near Ruhrort at Duisburg, Essen, Dortmund, Unna, Werl, Soest, Erwitte, Geseke, Salzkotten, Paderborn up to Bad Driburg.

http://thehellweg.bl...an-hellweg.html

Or read this entire blog if you want to know more about Hell : http://thehellweg.blogspot.com/

Btw, that doesn't mean that the ancient Greeks could not have known about the North Sea. I am not talking about the voyages of Pytheas here - he did indeed visit the North Sea and the Baltic), or even the Phoenician Himilco; these guys visited the area much later.

There are those - and mind you, I am not well versed in Greek history or ancient Greek poetry - who think that Homer may not have been Greek at all, but that he originally came from northern Europe, and that the ancient Greeks borrowed from his myths.

If that's true, then "Hades", as the Underworld, could have been inspired by the North Sea area.

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Edited by Abramelin

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Even most of what you posted hints at a root like Phlem or Phleum or Phlam and not Phleu/Fleu.

Btw: the word 'menschen' (men, people, or 'mensen' in modern Dutch) is a quite modern word.

I liked this one:

Pleumosii, a people of Belgic Gaul

http://www.perseus.t...&can=pleumosii0

I think that if the spelling had been Fleumossi, some Belgians would have rolled over the floor with laughter !!

.

:-) And I wonder what the etymoligic explanation of fluim would be.

Maybe some extra info about 'mensch', and the ending '-sch' (from http://www.onzetaal....eer-vroeger-sch).

For non-dutch speaking: suffix 'sch' was previously written when the word was ending in earlier Dutch on -sk or -sc.

'Mens' goes back to a very old form ending on -iska/-isko.

See mennisko (person) from a quote of 1100.

Dat heeft te maken met de herkomst van deze woorden. Er werd vroeger alleen -sch aan het woordeinde geschreven als het woord in ouder Nederlands op -sk of -sc eindigde. Huis gaat terug op hus(a) en mens gaat terug op een heel oude vorm die eindigde op -iska/-isko; in een citaat uit 1100 komt het woord mennisko ('persoon') voor.

Oorspronkelijk werd een woord als mensch met een k- of g-achtige klank aan het einde uitgesproken, maar het verschil in uitspraak tussen de slotklank van huis en die van mensch is al eeuwen geleden verdwenen.

Makes me think of the surnames Vleminckx and Devlaminck.

But Phleu or Fleu or Vlye or Phleum or Flevum or Flevo or Flandrensis or Flauma or Flâm: flooded land it was (in the name).

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holy dictionary.gif O.E. halig "holy, consecrated, sacred, godly," from P.Gmc. *hailaga- (cf. O.N. heilagr, O.Fris. helich "holy," O.S. helag, M.Du. helich, O.H.G. heilag, Ger. heilig, Goth. hailags "holy"). Adopted at conversion for L. sanctus.

With halig from hel - the clue is from Frisian - hel-like - hel being bright light - holy imo simply comes from the 'bright light' apparition - most things holy all have to do with bright light, like a halo. Holy means Hel like - "like bright light" - that raises up. But hel is raised too - think Helios, a combo of both - the bright light that raised up each day. Raising bright light is also hel-like - so the Sun became Helios - not for just bright light but for RAISING the BRIGHT LIGHT. This became 'holy' imo, associated with the rise of (the Sun) God. Holy imo would not be the original.

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