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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

We've been here before.

I suspected you had, and thnx for the refresh.

I have not been there, but was struck by the irony of all this.

Like you said "Wiljo copied it ca 300 BC from the writings of Dela aka Hellenja"

But you think also "who is probably not the same as Adela".

"and probably not the same as Hellenia", the old writings of Hellenia Wiljow is referring to.

So we have these possibilities

1) a text about Jesus right after Aldland sunk, possibly written by a Dela Hellenia in 593 BC, Living at the same time of Adela and presented by Wiljow as a part of the writings of Hellenia the old.

2) Jesus lived at the time of Adela in 593 BC. Wiljow quoting from Dela Hellenia, living within 300 years later and presented by Wiljow as a part of the writings of Hellenia the old.

When I was freewheeling in my mind to get this puzzle into place, the only thing i see is some overlap between Adela/Hellenia and the person who gives us the account of Jesus.

And right at that moment you send me a reminder that it was "Dela Hellenia" of all people who speaks about Jesus in Wiljows writings.

This is too good to be true for me.

Oh boy, I like OLB :-)

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Like you said "Wiljo copied it ca 300 BC from the writings of Dela aka Hellenja"

But you think also "who is probably not the same as Adela".

"and probably not the same as Hellenia", the old writings of Hellenia Wiljow is referring to.

The confusion is caused by Ottema's erronious translitertion and translation: "thet Hêlênja bok" => "het Hellenia boek".

The text reads:

p.[134/04] Wiljo

THÁ.K NÉI THA SAXANA MARKA FOR.

HÀV IK THRJU BOKA HRET.

THET BOK THÉRA SANGA.

THÉRA TELLINGA

ÀND THET HÉLÉNA BOK.

[...]

THA GOSA.MAKONTA FALLEN IS. [...]

BEN IK ALLÉNA NÉI TEX.LAND GVNGEN

VMBE THA SKRIFTA VR TO SKRIVANE

THÉR HJU ÀFTER LÉTEN HETH.

ÀND THÁ THA LERSTE WILLE FONDEN IS FON FRÁNA

ÀND THA NÉILÉTNE SKRIFTA FON DEL.A JEFTA HEL.LÉNJA

HÀV IK THÀT JETA RÉIS DÉN.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .

[1)] THIT SEND THA SKRIFTA HEL.LÉNJA.S.

["Jes.us" story, signed by "DEL.Á TONOMATH. HEL.LÉNJA"

[2) p.141] SÁ LUDA FRÁNA.S UTROSTE WILLE.

[Frana's testament]

[3) p.142] THET HETH GOSA NÉILÉTEN.

[Gosa's prophecy]

So Wiljo saved 3 books, that were not copied, nor added to the manuscript:

THET BOK THÉRA SANGA.

THÉRA TELLINGA

ÀND THET HÉLÉNA BOK.

And she copied 3 texts that were added to the manuscript:

THA SKRIFTA HEL.LÉNJA.S. (or: "DEL.Á TONOMATH. HEL.LÉNJA")

FRÁNA.S UTROSTE WILLE.

THET HETH GOSA NÉILÉTEN.

If Delá a.k.a. Hellénja would have been the same as Ádela, why would Wiljo not have simply written Ádela?

Edited by Othar Winis

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Concerning "Lumka-makia":

-machy dictionary.gif

word-forming element meaning "battle, war, contest," from Greek -makhia, from makhe "a battle, fight," related to makhesthai "to fight," from PIE root *magh- (2) "to fight."

From some other source (one I lost), I learned that the Greek "makhia" is of unknown origin.

Well, not really:

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=A010409

It's most probably of Hebrew or Phoenician origin, and the original word was "makka", meaning 'hit, beat, slap, ailment. plague'.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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We've been here before.

We have indeed:

http://www.unexplain...65#entry4545581

HAIL TO ALL TRUE FRISIANS.

(...)

Sixteen hundred years ago, Atland was submerged; and at that time something happened which nobody had reckoned upon. In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain, lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere) that is “rare” There was a child born whose mother was the daughter of a king, and whose father was a high-priest. In order to hide the shame they were obliged to renounce their own blood. Therefore it was taken out of the town to poor people. As the boy grew up, nothing was concealed from him, so he did all in his power to acquire wisdom. His intellect was so great that he understood everything that he saw or heard. The people regarded him with respect, and the priests were afraid of his questions.

It all depends on the translation.

This is your version:

Just think of it like this:

"it was/is 1600 years after Atland had sank... at THAT time something happened"

or:

"(it was) 1600 years ago (that) Atland had sank... at THAT time (when it was 1600 years after Atland had sank), something happened"

And this is the original text:

16 wâra 100 jêr lêden is Atland svnken, aend to thêra tidum bêrade thêr awat hwêr vppa nimman rêkned nêde. In-t hirte fon Findas lând vppet berchta lêid en del, thêr is kêthen Kasamyr, thet is sjeldsum.

Dutch:

16 maal (or: keer) 100 jaar (ge)leden is Atland (ge)zonken, ende te dien tijde (ge)beurde daar waar op niemand (ge)rekend had.

Etc.

It's clear as crystal to me. But that's because it's almost modern Dutch, or at least 19th century Dutch.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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From some other source (one I lost), I learned that the Greek "makhia" is of unknown origin.

Well, not really:

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=A010409

It's most probably of Hebrew or Phoenician origin, and the original word was "makka", meaning 'hit, beat, slap, ailment. plague'.

.

I don't know about Lumka Makia but how about the underlying meaning of Magyar..?

-machy

word-forming element meaning "battle, war, contest," from Greek -makhia, from makhe "a battle, fight," related to makhesthai "to fight," from PIE root *magh- (2) "to fight."

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It all depends on the translation.

Any good translator knows that the best translation is not always the most literal one.

It must make sense.

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A nice extra concerning the Phoenicians and how they called themselves...

"Knn", or Kanaan, is how they called themselves, and it means..... low lands.

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Any good translator knows that the best translation is not always the most literal one.

It must make sense.

It makes sense. 1600 years ago Atland was sunken and at that time something happened which...etc - goes on tell the whole of Jes-us life story and what the priests did after his death.

I don't even get how you're interpreting it any other way. 1600 year ago atland was sunken and ?? (to there/that time) .....to our time, in our time...what are you inserting there?

Edited by The Puzzler

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Any good translator knows that the best translation is not always the most literal one.

It must make sense.

Mine makes sense, but it shows the one(s) creating the OLB made a mistake.

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Mine makes sense, but it shows the one(s) creating the OLB made a mistake.

How so?

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There will be many old sources about buildings or cities that no longer exist, or of which no traces have been found (yet).

Where are there descriptions for round cities on a hill WITH a baked brick tower in the center and longhouses coming like the spokes of the Jol Wheel dating from either the Bronze or early Iron Age?

Those Frisian Almanacs may have had the manuscript or a related document as their source.

So unless the Over de Linden family wrote a 'source' almanac at some point, this would imply the existence of manuscripts similar to the OLB up to the 19th century. Seems suspect we haven't found any of these.

Peoples who move around often take their toponyms with them. Many examples in the US, South Africa and Australia. Most well known "New Amsterdam", later renamed "New York".

So Egypt is named for Gypsies rather then vice versa, the Med is named after a sea which only came into being in the 12th century, and the Black Sea was named after the Baltic sea at some point, the pillars of Hercules are named for those in Frisia etc etc?

There are more authentic ancient sources in a (thus far) unique script.

Helvetii wrote in a Greek script, NOT Jol script, which Caesar would not have been able to read. What else is there?

Spelling variety in old sources is most common.

But this is attested to in exactly one source.

I am not a geologist, but Alewyn Raubenheimer is and he would strongly disagree with you. Have you read his book (3rd edition)?

Only those excerpts of the first edition, though where I am in the old thread he has finished his second edition.

And he is one geologist against many.

Atland, according to the OLB means "old land". This can refer to any lost land. It is obvious that much land (coastal areas, islands) got lost as a result of natural disasters. OLB's Aldland does not have to refer to the same location as Plato's Atlantis.

I'm aware of this, I'm 300 or so pages into the last thread.

What I mean is, what large 'Land of Milk and Honey' disappeared circa 2194 (or 3 by Alewyn's reckonings) BC?

Another thing- the detail about sailors calling it Atland is a strange thing, in a vein similar to 'Foreign Paper'. And it just doesn't sound like an actual corruption of Aldland.

Would you agree that the verb BEDA and the noun RVM might be 2000+ years old?

If so, why could a combination of these words not be that old.

If not, why not?

I don't. I just dispute that the combination of the two into one word ever existed before the 1500s or whenever it was.

It is possible that this flood was not recorded or that Okke's father was refering to a metaphorical flood (invasion).

OKKE MY SON—

You must preserve these books with body and soul. They contain the history of all our people, as well as of our forefathers. Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother; but they got wet

Pretty clear he is referring to an actual flood. But even if he's not, what recorded incursions were there circa 1243?

When do you suppose the manuscript was created and with what motive?

Why did Tolkien write Lord of the Rings (I know you hate the comparison but it's legitimate)? Why would Geoffrey of Monmouth write tales of Brutus and Corineus the Trojans and Etrusco-Trojans? Why would someone go through the effort to construct Dothraki?

Why has (recent) years of paper research not resulted in a clear answer as to how old the paper is?

Because the results were inconclusive?

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:blush::hmm:

Scuze me?

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"Knn", or Kanaan, is how they called themselves, and it means..... low lands.

Kananafates? :-)

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I have recently become father and had some short nights.

Will take some rest first.

Edited by Othar Winis
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The confusion is caused by Ottema's erronious translitertion and translation: "thet Hêlênja bok" => "het Hellenia boek".

The text reads:

p.[134/04] Wiljo

THÁ.K NÉI THA SAXANA MARKA FOR.

HÀV IK THRJU BOKA HRET.

THET BOK THÉRA SANGA.

THÉRA TELLINGA

ÀND THET HÉLÉNA BOK.

[...]

THA GOSA.MAKONTA FALLEN IS. [...]

BEN IK ALLÉNA NÉI TEX.LAND GVNGEN

VMBE THA SKRIFTA VR TO SKRIVANE

THÉR HJU ÀFTER LÉTEN HETH.

ÀND THÁ THA LERSTE WILLE FONDEN IS FON FRÁNA

ÀND THA NÉILÉTNE SKRIFTA FON DEL.A JEFTA HEL.LÉNJA

HÀV IK THÀT JETA RÉIS DÉN.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .

[1)] THIT SEND THA SKRIFTA HEL.LÉNJA.S.

["Jes.us" story, signed by "DEL.Á TONOMATH. HEL.LÉNJA"

[2) p.141] SÁ LUDA FRÁNA.S UTROSTE WILLE.

[Frana's testament]

[3) p.142] THET HETH GOSA NÉILÉTEN.

[Gosa's prophecy]

So Wiljo saved 3 books, that were not copied, nor added to the manuscript:

THET BOK THÉRA SANGA.

THÉRA TELLINGA

ÀND THET HÉLÉNA BOK.

And she copied 3 texts that were added to the manuscript:

THA SKRIFTA HEL.LÉNJA.S. (or: "DEL.Á TONOMATH. HEL.LÉNJA")

FRÁNA.S UTROSTE WILLE.

THET HETH GOSA NÉILÉTEN.

If Delá a.k.a. Hellénja would have been the same as Ádela, why would Wiljo not have simply written Ádela?

Can't answer that, only that Dela for me is the same as Adela.

Not that it matters but I have 2 comrades called Johan. The one I call Johan, the other Jokke. Why, i don't know for sure.

But here is what bothers me.

Frana’s last will is younger then Hellenia’s writings about Jesus says Wiljow.

Let’s assume Jesus lived 1600 years after Aldland sank.

Below what makes it difficult for me to fit all in.

Frana died in 1604 after Aldland sank, Adela denounced about that time to be Volksmoeder.

The moment of Dela’s writing in this case must be older than Frana’s will after 1604 and younger then Jesus death (Jesus born in 1600). This is impossible imo.

This also means that Frana/Adela/Jesus and Dela Hellenia lived approx at the same time.

Which other Adela or Dela would have had such stories about a distant past, besides Adela?

That must have been a contemporary of Adela, with the same background then, called Dela Hellenia?

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I have recently become father and had some short nights.

Will take some rest first.

I missed this one: best wishes and good rest O.!

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I missed this one: best wishes and good rest O.!

Yes big Congratulations from me too!

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A small thought; could the 'Wr' in Wr-Alda be meant to be pronounced as in 'Wyr', or Wyrd, Nordic God of Fates?

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Thank you Van Gorp and Puzzler.

~ ~ ~

The transliteration that I used thus far in my posts, videos and on my blogs (ALDFRYAS and FRYSKEDNIS) is not good enough.

I am working on improving it.

Some of the letters I use are different from the ones used by Ottema (& Sandbach) and Jensma.

Note the O with dot in the center, that is used for example on page 10 of the original manuscript:

translit.png

Edited by Othar Winis

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A small thought; could the 'Wr' in Wr-Alda be meant to be pronounced as in 'Wyr', or Wyrd, Nordic God of Fates?

What example is Wyr? I can't find it anywhere.

As for wyrd, it appears the word always has the d or t ending, which imo makes it unable to account for Wralda's name.

However I cannot locate any Wyr so if you can tell me or give me a reference to this word, Id greatly appreciate it.

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What example is Wyr? I can't find it anywhere.

As for wyrd, it appears the word always has the d or t ending, which imo makes it unable to account for Wralda's name.

However I cannot locate any Wyr so if you can tell me or give me a reference to this word, Id greatly appreciate it.

A connection I see is in the other meaning of "wereld".

OLB makes it seem like WRALDA (world) is coming from OER-ALD (age old, the primal and ever existing mover).

But another meaningfull root for world ("wereld" in Dutch) could come from "warren" or "warrelen" (draaien, keren, turning, confusing).

The English word "war" comes from it too.

"Worden" (becoming in Dutch) is said to come from the same root -> becoming, destiny, faith -> turning out, inevitable

"Waarheid" (Truth) also based on the same.

Because truth is coming from trouw-heid, and "trouw" is Dutch for faith.

The truth (waar-heid) can't be cast away and is always coming back.

Wyrd, waarheid and destiny: all the same. The inevitable thing that is destined to become reality.

Nothing to do about it, in Dutch:

"Uitdraaien op ..." -> Becoming true

Edited by Van Gorp

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Wralda is on my mind but I have to get this off my mind.

While doing some research I noticed the Altai Mountains are an Alt word, Altland would make sense as a name for the Altai area, the plain leads down the Altai Mountains to the plains of Kazakhstan.

Then the Altai is where the kurgans start, there to the Ukraine and even further West. The word KURGAN is actually the same as church imo - KURKAN - KIRKE. In these kirke they put a lot of grave goods, idols etc, they were mini underground cellars, with roofs and all. Their kirke may not mean church - like the Egyptians they put idols in their 'tombs'. We have no idea of the ceremony of these burials, but even now burials are done within the realm of a church so that the church may actually be a later word based on the actually circular tombs where the burial ceremony took place, the kirke, an early church - I don't see these steppe people having any sort of temples but lots of kurgans.

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A connection I see is in the other meaning of "wereld".

OLB makes it seem like WRALDA (world) is coming from OER-ALD (age old, the primal and ever existing mover).

But another meaningfull root for world ("wereld" in Dutch) could come from "warren" or "warrelen" (draaien, keren, turning, confusing).

The English word "war" comes from it too.

"Worden" (becoming in Dutch) is said to come from the same root -> becoming, destiny, faith -> turning out, inevitable

"Waarheid" (Truth) also based on the same.

Because truth is coming from trouw-heid, and "trouw" is Dutch for faith.

The truth (waar-heid) can't be cast away and is always coming back.

Wyrd, waarheid and destiny: all the same. The inevitable thing that is destined to become reality.

Nothing to do about it, in Dutch:

"Uitdraaien op ..." -> Becoming true

I thought it might be TRUE ELDER before….

VERY comes from WER below.

very (adj.)

late 13c., verray "true, real, genuine," later "actual, sheer" (late 14c.), from Anglo-French verrai, Old French verai "true, truthful, sincere; right, just, legal," from Vulgar Latin *veracus, from Latin verax (genitive veracis) "truthful," from verus "true" (source also of Italian vero), from PIE root *were-o- "true, trustworthy" (cognates: Old English wær "a compact," Old Dutch, Old High German war, Dutch waar, German wahr "true;" Welsh gwyr, Old Irish fir "true;" Old Church Slavonic vera "faith," Russian viera "faith, belief"). Meaning "greatly, extremely" is first recorded mid-15c. Used as a pure intensive since Middle English.

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=very

wēr* 12, afries., Adj.: nhd. wahr, wahrheitsgetreu, wirklich, gültig; ne. true, truthful; Vw.: s. -haf-t-e-lik, -haf-t-ich, -haf-t-ic-hê-d, -hê-d, -lik, -līk-man-n; Hw.: vgl. got. *wēreis, an. værr (2), ae. wǣr (3), as. hwār*, wār* (1), ahd. wār* (1); Q.: R, H, W, E, B; E.: germ. *wēra-, *wēraz, *wǣra-, *wǣraz, *wērja-, *wērjaz, *wǣrja-, *wǣrjaz, Adj., zuverlässig, wahr, freundlich; idg. *u̯erōs-, Adj., freundlich, vertrauenswert, wahr, Pokorny 1165; s. idg. *u̯er- (11), *u̯erə-, Sb., Freundlichkeit, Pokorny 1165; W.: nfries. wier, Adj., wahr, wirklich; W.: saterl. wer, Adj., wahr, wirklich; W.: nnordfries. wer, Adj., wahr, wirklich; L.: Hh 127b, Rh 1135b; R.: at wēr-a, afries., Adv.: nhd. fürwahr; ne. indeed, truly; L.: Hh 151b

So 'true older' is werald

and the true part = very

Then throw in what you said and he can also be all the words associated with truth. wērd, wēr-d, afries., st. F. (i): Vw.: s. wēr-hê-d

However this phrase is used in the OLB – it doesn’t really mean his name is based in over rather than wer but it does hint that this might be what his name means or at least leads some to think this is what it does mean.

Wr.alda is thet alderaldesta jeftha overaldesta, hwand thet skop alla thinga. Wr.alda is ella in ella, hwand thet is êvg aend vnendlik. Wr.alda is overal ainwardich, men narne to bisja, thêrvmbe waerth thet wêsa gâst hêten.

over 22, ov-er, ūr, afries., Präp.: nhd. über, gegen, wider; ne. over, against; ÜG.: lat. per L 2, ultrā L 2, K 7; Vw.: s. in, thē̆-r-in-, -bel-g-a, -bōt-e, -delf-t-e, -dē-m-a, -dreg-a, -duā, -er-a, -er-e, -fā, -fiuch-t-a, -ga-ng, -grīp-a, -hak, -her-d, -hê-r-e, -hê-r-ich, -hê-r-ic-hê-d, -hê-r-ich-nisse, -hê-r-nisse, -hle-st, -hle-t, -hō-r, -hō-r-ia, -hū-s-dē-d*, -jeld, -jeld-a, -jē-r-ich, -ker-e, -ku-m-a, -lan-d-ich, -ledz-a, -lên-a, -len-d-a, -le-s-t, -man-n, -mē-t-e, -mē-th, -mō-d, -râ-v-ia, -ri-p, -ri-p-an, -riuch-t, -ske-r*, -ske-r-a*, -ske-r-a-nd-e, -sket-t, -sket-t-râ-f, -spil, -ste-k-a, -s-tel-a*, -ti-ā, -tiū-ch, -tiū-g-a, -thank, -wal-d (1), -wal-d (2), -wal-d-e-lik, -wel-d-ig-ia*, -we-s-a, -wi-n-n-a; Hw.: vgl. got. ufar, an. yfir, ae. ofer, anfrk. over, as. ovar*, ahd. ubar (1); Q.: E, H, B, W, R, L 2, K 7; E.: germ. *uber, *uberi, Adv., Präp., über; idg. *upér, *upéri, Adv., Präp., über, oberhalb, Pokorny 1105; s. idg. *upo, *up, *eup, Adv., Präf., unten, hinauf, über, Pokorny 1106; R.: ov-er-g, afries., Adv.: nhd. übrig, sonst; ne. otherwise, left (Adj.); L.: Hh 81a, Rh 1108b

ōver, ōv-er, afries., M.: Vw.: s. ōv-er-a

OVERA overa, ov-er-a, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. ūr-a URA

ōvera 8, ōvere, ōv-er-a, ōv-er-e, ōv-er, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Ufer; ne. bank (N.), shore (N.);

URA ūr 38, afries., Präp., Präf.: nhd. über, gegen, wider; ne. over-, counter-; Vw.: s. hī-r-, in-, thē̆-r-, -al-l, -and-wor-d-ia, -dreg-a, -dri-f-t-e, -fā, -her-d, -jev-a, -jev-inge, -li-b-b-a, -liv-er-inge, -liv-r-ia, -liv-r-inge, -rê-k-a, -send-a, -siā, -skrī-d-a, -s-pre-k-a, -sta-n-d-a, -stap-a, -tast-a, -ti-g-ia, -wal-d-e-lik, -wax-a, -weg-a, -wi-n-n-inge; Hw.: s. ov-er; Hw.: vgl. got. ufar, an. yfir, ae. ofer, anfrk. over, as. ovar*, ahd. ubar (1); Q.: R, B, E, H, W; E.: s. ov-er; W.: nfries. oer, Präp., über, gegen; L.: Hh 121a, Rh 1108b, Rh 1114b

ūra 10, ūre (2), overa*, ūr-a, ūr-e (2), ov-er-a*, afries., Adj.: nhd. obere; ne. upper; Hw.: s. ūr-esta, uv-er-a; Q.: R, E, S, H; E.: s. ūr; L.: Hh 121a, Rh 111b

ūral, ūr-al, afries., Adv.: Vw.: s. ūr-al-l

Avesta looks to me like its there in uresta, upper, highest

The uber old one. The most ancient. The upper one. The over alda.

This imo also equates to Most High - because the alda really means highest - alt - the highest is the most senior, the oldest - so the word older/alda is imo the same as high. Could be some kind of unknown relationship between the truth and the overa/upper, to attain truth is a very high spiritual level.

The Urals – the upper parts – mountains, high??? The etymology of the Urals is pretty sketchy, but seems a logical root for its name.

That word is quite close to ara or arya, meaning ‘noble’, which imo is rooted in highest, oldest.

However, again, that word does not seem to give up a W for it's first letter easily - so I wonder how OVERA became WER or WR - WRALDA - even though I can it as VERALDA, it seems odd that the word OVERA is clearly used not really leaving room for OVERA to mean WERA as well.

His name would mean TRUE ELDER/WER-ALDA but they are just describing him and use OVERALDESTA would have to be whats going on there.

Its worth closer inspection imo.

His name is probably quite multi-faceted.

Edited by The Puzzler

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I thought it might be TRUE ELDER before….

VERY comes from WER below.

very (adj.)

late 13c., verray "true, real, genuine," later "actual, sheer" (late 14c.), from Anglo-French verrai, Old French verai "true, truthful, sincere; right, just, legal," from Vulgar Latin *veracus, from Latin verax (genitive veracis) "truthful," from verus "true" (source also of Italian vero), from PIE root *were-o- "true, trustworthy" (cognates: Old English wær "a compact," Old Dutch, Old High German war, Dutch waar, German wahr "true;" Welsh gwyr, Old Irish fir "true;" Old Church Slavonic vera "faith," Russian viera "faith, belief"). Meaning "greatly, extremely" is first recorded mid-15c. Used as a pure intensive since Middle English.

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=very

wēr* 12, afries., Adj.: nhd. wahr, wahrheitsgetreu, wirklich, gültig; ne. true, truthful; Vw.: s. -haf-t-e-lik, -haf-t-ich, -haf-t-ic-hê-d, -hê-d, -lik, -līk-man-n; Hw.: vgl. got. *wēreis, an. værr (2), ae. wǣr (3), as. hwār*, wār* (1), ahd. wār* (1); Q.: R, H, W, E, B; E.: germ. *wēra-, *wēraz, *wǣra-, *wǣraz, *wērja-, *wērjaz, *wǣrja-, *wǣrjaz, Adj., zuverlässig, wahr, freundlich; idg. *u̯erōs-, Adj., freundlich, vertrauenswert, wahr, Pokorny 1165; s. idg. *u̯er- (11), *u̯erə-, Sb., Freundlichkeit, Pokorny 1165; W.: nfries. wier, Adj., wahr, wirklich; W.: saterl. wer, Adj., wahr, wirklich; W.: nnordfries. wer, Adj., wahr, wirklich; L.: Hh 127b, Rh 1135b; R.: at wēr-a, afries., Adv.: nhd. fürwahr; ne. indeed, truly; L.: Hh 151b

So 'true older' is werald

and the true part = very

Then throw in what you said and he can also be all the words associated with truth. wērd, wēr-d, afries., st. F. (i): Vw.: s. wēr-hê-d

However this phrase is used in the OLB – it doesn’t really mean his name is based in over rather than wer but it does hint that this might be what his name means or at least leads some to think this is what it does mean.

Wr.alda is thet alderaldesta jeftha overaldesta, hwand thet skop alla thinga. Wr.alda is ella in ella, hwand thet is êvg aend vnendlik. Wr.alda is overal ainwardich, men narne to bisja, thêrvmbe waerth thet wêsa gâst hêten.

over 22, ov-er, ūr, afries., Präp.: nhd. über, gegen, wider; ne. over, against; ÜG.: lat. per L 2, ultrā L 2, K 7; Vw.: s. in, thē̆-r-in-, -bel-g-a, -bōt-e, -delf-t-e, -dē-m-a, -dreg-a, -duā, -er-a, -er-e, -fā, -fiuch-t-a, -ga-ng, -grīp-a, -hak, -her-d, -hê-r-e, -hê-r-ich, -hê-r-ic-hê-d, -hê-r-ich-nisse, -hê-r-nisse, -hle-st, -hle-t, -hō-r, -hō-r-ia, -hū-s-dē-d*, -jeld, -jeld-a, -jē-r-ich, -ker-e, -ku-m-a, -lan-d-ich, -ledz-a, -lên-a, -len-d-a, -le-s-t, -man-n, -mē-t-e, -mē-th, -mō-d, -râ-v-ia, -ri-p, -ri-p-an, -riuch-t, -ske-r*, -ske-r-a*, -ske-r-a-nd-e, -sket-t, -sket-t-râ-f, -spil, -ste-k-a, -s-tel-a*, -ti-ā, -tiū-ch, -tiū-g-a, -thank, -wal-d (1), -wal-d (2), -wal-d-e-lik, -wel-d-ig-ia*, -we-s-a, -wi-n-n-a; Hw.: vgl. got. ufar, an. yfir, ae. ofer, anfrk. over, as. ovar*, ahd. ubar (1); Q.: E, H, B, W, R, L 2, K 7; E.: germ. *uber, *uberi, Adv., Präp., über; idg. *upér, *upéri, Adv., Präp., über, oberhalb, Pokorny 1105; s. idg. *upo, *up, *eup, Adv., Präf., unten, hinauf, über, Pokorny 1106; R.: ov-er-g, afries., Adv.: nhd. übrig, sonst; ne. otherwise, left (Adj.); L.: Hh 81a, Rh 1108b

ōver, ōv-er, afries., M.: Vw.: s. ōv-er-a

OVERA overa, ov-er-a, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. ūr-a URA

ōvera 8, ōvere, ōv-er-a, ōv-er-e, ōv-er, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Ufer; ne. bank (N.), shore (N.);

URA ūr 38, afries., Präp., Präf.: nhd. über, gegen, wider; ne. over-, counter-; Vw.: s. hī-r-, in-, thē̆-r-, -al-l, -and-wor-d-ia, -dreg-a, -dri-f-t-e, -fā, -her-d, -jev-a, -jev-inge, -li-b-b-a, -liv-er-inge, -liv-r-ia, -liv-r-inge, -rê-k-a, -send-a, -siā, -skrī-d-a, -s-pre-k-a, -sta-n-d-a, -stap-a, -tast-a, -ti-g-ia, -wal-d-e-lik, -wax-a, -weg-a, -wi-n-n-inge; Hw.: s. ov-er; Hw.: vgl. got. ufar, an. yfir, ae. ofer, anfrk. over, as. ovar*, ahd. ubar (1); Q.: R, B, E, H, W; E.: s. ov-er; W.: nfries. oer, Präp., über, gegen; L.: Hh 121a, Rh 1108b, Rh 1114b

ūra 10, ūre (2), overa*, ūr-a, ūr-e (2), ov-er-a*, afries., Adj.: nhd. obere; ne. upper; Hw.: s. ūr-esta, uv-er-a; Q.: R, E, S, H; E.: s. ūr; L.: Hh 121a, Rh 111b

ūral, ūr-al, afries., Adv.: Vw.: s. ūr-al-l

Avesta looks to me like its there in uresta, upper, highest

The uber old one. The most ancient. The upper one. The over alda.

This imo also equates to Most High - because the alda really means highest - alt - the highest is the most senior, the oldest - so the word older/alda is imo the same as high. Could be some kind of unknown relationship between the truth and the overa/upper, to attain truth is a very high spiritual level.

The Urals – the upper parts – mountains, high??? The etymology of the Urals is pretty sketchy, but seems a logical root for its name.

That word is quite close to ara or arya, meaning ‘noble’, which imo is rooted in highest, oldest.

However, again, that word does not seem to give up a W for it's first letter easily - so I wonder how OVERA became WER or WR - WRALDA - even though I can it as VERALDA, it seems odd that the word OVERA is clearly used not really leaving room for OVERA to mean WERA as well.

His name would mean TRUE ELDER/WER-ALDA but they are just describing him and use OVERALDESTA would have to be whats going on there.

Its worth closer inspection imo.

His name is probably quite multi-faceted.

Some interesting thoughts Puzz,

About Oeral (Mountains) I think of a possible connection with the Dutch word "over-al", meaning litteraly every-where.

In the case of Oeral mointains it could mean that the mountain range was stretched over the full length.

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/overal

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Have you guys seriously forgotten? You are discussing the Altai Mountains and the meaning of Wr-Alda as Truly Ancient 600 pages ago. What's next, is Abramelin going to tell us all about his Aldland in the Himalayas (or Himmelaias to Puzzler, lol)?

This conversation is incapable of moving on- and it's because there is so little to work with. There is only one example of OLB language and history, and that is the OLB itself. This discussion is like an Ouroboros, or the Midgard Serpent.

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