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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

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Posted (edited)

The modern English word Hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (about 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period, and ultimately from Proto-Germanic *halja, meaning "one who covers up or hides something".[1] The word has cognates in related Germanic languages such as Old Frisian helle, hille, Old Saxon hellja, Middle Dutch helle (modern Dutch hel), Old High German helle (Modern German Hölle), Danish, Norwegian and Swedish "helvede"/helvete (hel + Old Norse vitti, "punishment" whence the Icelandic víti "hell"), and Gothic halja.[1] Subsequently, the word was used to transfer a pagan concept to Christian theology and its vocabulary[1] (however, for the Judeo-Christian origin of the concept see Gehenna).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

halja would be imo something like 'the hill'- the mound, which did cover something up, the body of the dead, in the kurgans.

hill. or the Underworld, that is what is under the hill - and it's sacred (maybe secret as well). Hell is the underworld because the underworld was under hills, mounds imo.

It's probably different from hel as in light which is an archaic meaning.

Adjective

hel (comparative heller, superlative helst)

  1. (archaic) bright

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hel

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

Heil, hail and hole would all come from this word heill - which really sounds to me like an early form of wheel.

This goes to Old Frisian hal - which is hall - and heal/healthy - whole, complete. Also luck.

Funny how Proto-Uralic root hal means die.

Die in Basque is HIL.

Another Finnish word is hella for hot, oven.Probably where some form of idea of hell being a hot furnace...

The whole hell thing is very interesting and confusing imo - there are so many variations of this word linking to other forms of the word, it's hard to know what is connected to each other, or are they all connected in the end and hel as bright, went into Germanic from hot oven, cremation - hal=die...who knows really?

Hang on - seems the stove thing comes from hallr - flat stone - also piece of flat iron - they probably cooked on this - it was their furnace, stove.

They think Hel the Goddess is some kind of post-Christian and might not be pagan at all. The concept of Hel as an underworld fiure may not be that old - hel in the OLB is definitely hill, not anything else, unless I've missed something.

I think I might make it a pet project, to decipher all the hel connections. I'll save you though and not make posts of it all.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

OK thnx.

Below my and seemingly also other's idea's about the word 'Vlaanderen'.

WIKI gives the right description: "overstroomd gebied" (flooded area)

but as usual coming with a Latin origin "Flandrensis", deducted from "flâm", which on his turn is described as

“een Ingveoonse vorm van het Germaanse flauma, dat "overstroomd gebied" betekent”

So, what WIKI actually says is "Vlaanderen" -> coming from the Latinised version of "flooded area"

But, as we know: Latin was not the original language spoken here.

Latin actually, is not that old as pretended and tend to use local names and make a Latinised version of it

(-> more Latin texts are found in France and Germany than in Italy sic!, same with Greek in Greece)

"Phleu/Fleu" (nowadays Vloeien, Vloeden, Vlied, Vlieden) -> flood of the sea ('t Vleut, 't VLied) -> Fleu-Landern (or Flie-Landern) -> pronounced Fl-Landern

The 'Vlemschen' (Phleu-menschen, Phlemschen, Flemschen,Pleumosii in Latin) are people living around the estuarium -> or now mostly called the 'Vlamschen' (Vlam-inghen)

Below just for reference (and the relevant parts are translated above ;-)

Vlemsch.jpg

Yes, and the term Flemish is probably Old Frisian.

The adjective Flemish (first attested as flemmysshe, c. 1325[8]; cf. Flæming, c. 1150[9]), meaning "from Flanders", was probably borrowed from Old Frisian.[10] The name Vlaanderen was probably formed from a stem flām-, meaning "flooded area", with a suffix -ðr- attached;[11] compare Common Germanic *flōðuz, "flood".[12] The Old Dutch form is flāmisk, which becomes vlamesc, vlaemsch in Middle Dutch and Vlaams in Modern Dutch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish

What stem flam? OK, found it: The region's name is thought to derive from an Ingvaeonic stem flām- meaning "flooded land" (from Proto-Germanic *flauma-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders

I don't know about that stem - but I do think the derivative of FLAN could account for the name of Flanders.

flan dictionary.gif "open tart," 1846, from Fr. flan "custard tart, cheesecake," from O.Fr. flaon (12c.), from M.L. flado, probably a Germanic borrowing (cf. Frank. *flado, O.H.G. flado "offering cake," M.H.G. vlade "a broad, thin cake," Du. vla "baked custard"), from P.Gmc. *flatho(n), akin to words for "flat" and probably from PIE root *plat- "to spread" (see place). Borrowed earlier as flawn (c.1300), from Old French. http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=flan

A broad, flat, spreading land - Flanders.

Catalan language has a crossover word: flam/flan

Catalan

Noun

flam m. (plural flams)

  1. flan (custard dessert)

Keeping in line with Frisian style naming - the Flemish people could simply have been the flatlanders.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

I also think now, that flambe, flame comes out of flan/flam or maybe vice versa - meaning spreading - as in a flame also - the key is flamboyant - the word means flam in the form of wavy, moving flame, spreading fire is flame like fan, spreading. You also fan the flames, make the fire spread further.

Flem and flaum and all these other apparent Ingaevonic/Germanic flam=flood words, may come from the concept of 'spreading' water (flan, fan, flame), covering the land, flooding the place.

Many words, I've discovered, come from very basic concepts.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

holy dictionary.gif O.E. halig "holy, consecrated, sacred, godly," from P.Gmc. *hailaga- (cf. O.N. heilagr, O.Fris. helich "holy," O.S. helag, M.Du. helich, O.H.G. heilag, Ger. heilig, Goth. hailags "holy"). Adopted at conversion for L. sanctus.

With halig from hel - the clue is from Frisian - hel-like - hel being bright light - holy imo simply comes from the 'bright light' apparition - most things holy all have to do with bright light, like a halo. Holy means Hel like - "like bright light" - that raises up. But hel is raised too - think Helios, a combo of both - the bright light that raised up each day. Raising bright light is also hel-like - so the Sun became Helios - not for just bright light but for RAISING the BRIGHT LIGHT. This became 'holy' imo, associated with the rise of (the Sun) God. Holy imo would not be the original.

Heil, hail and hole would all come from this word heill - which really sounds to me like an early form of wheel.

This goes to Old Frisian hal - which is hall - and heal/healthy - whole, complete. Also luck.

Funny how Proto-Uralic root hal means die.

Die in Basque is HIL.

Another Finnish word is hella for hot, oven.Probably where some form of idea of hell being a hot furnace...

The whole hell thing is very interesting and confusing imo - there are so many variations of this word linking to other forms of the word, it's hard to know what is connected to each other, or are they all connected in the end and hel as bright, went into Germanic from hot oven, cremation - hal=die...who knows really?

Hang on - seems the stove thing comes from hallr - flat stone - also piece of flat iron - they probably cooked on this - it was their furnace, stove.

They think Hel the Goddess is some kind of post-Christian and might not be pagan at all. The concept of Hel as an underworld fiure may not be that old - hel in the OLB is definitely hill, not anything else, unless I've missed something.

I think I might make it a pet project, to decipher all the hel connections. I'll save you though and not make posts of it all.

You might have clicked on the link in the post I quoted:

http://thehellweg.bl...holl-names.html

http://thehellweg.bl...09/holland.html

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

Say Otharus, did you read my post to Puzzler? About "Petronella Bias", the founder of the "Oera Linda Society"?

It appears she was related to 'a' "Jantje Over de Linden" from Den Helder.

Is she any way related to THE Over de Linden family that you know of?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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About "Petronella Bias", the founder of the "Oera Linda Society"?

Please Abe, don't you see?!

That's part of the hoax Tony Steal is trying to create.

I will not waste one letter on that.

NEVER EVER use his websites as a source for anything.

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Posted (edited)

Please Abe, don't you see?!

That's part of the hoax Tony Steal is trying to create.

I will not waste one letter on that.

NEVER EVER use his websites as a source for anything.

Of course I know it's Tony Steele's creation.

Hey, I am not using his website as some kind of 'source', I actually posted it as a joke for Puzz.

But I think there IS a Petronella Bais in the Over de Linden family, I only don't know if she was related to THE Over de Lindens.

That name was - for me - the only interesting thing I read there.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Posted (edited)

But I think there IS a Petronella Bais in the Over de Linden family, I only don't know if she was related to THE Over de Lindens.

Petronella Bais (1897-?) was a granddaughter of Jantje Over de Linden (1837-1907), a daughter of Adrianus OL (1807-1870), who was a cousin to the first degree of our Cornelis.

Edited by Otharus

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Petronella Bais (1897-?) was a granddaughter of Jantje Over de Linden (1837-1907), a daughter of Adrianus OL (1807-1870), who was a cousin to the first degree of our Cornelis.

Ah, thanks, I couldn't find the link to Adrianus OL.

Petronella Bais, 1897–1971

(Founder of the Society)

III-d ‎ ‏Petronella Bais

Geb. ‎± 1897 te Den Helder‎. Dochter van Thomas Bais en Jannetje de Boer

Thomas Bais‏‎

Geb. ‎± 1865 te Enkhuizen‎. Beroep(en): visscher. Zoon van Pieter Bais en Jantje over de Linden‏

And what do you think of the date of her death, 1971? Any truth in it?

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Posted (edited)

You might have clicked on the link in the post I quoted:

http://thehellweg.bl...holl-names.html

http://thehellweg.bl...09/holland.html

.

It says:

The name Helle has been used for the North Sea, which was called Holle, referring to "Holland". The Frisian name for the North Sea is Harle respectively Har, which correlates to herring6 , and to the following number of (mostly Dutch) town-names: Middelharnis, Haringvliet, Harlem, Harlingen, Hargen7, Harle8 and in English: Harwich as well as in the English word „harbour“.

Harbour

Etymology

From Middle English herber, herberge, from Old English herebeorg (“shelter, lodgings, quarters”), from Proto-Germanic *harjaz (“army”) + *bergô (“protection”), equivalent to Old English here (“army, host”) + ġebeorg (“defense, protection, refuge”). Cognate with Old Norse herbergi (“a harbour; a room”) (whence the Icelandic herbergi), Dutch herberg, German Herberge ‘hospice’, Swedish härbärge. Compare also French auberge (“hostel”). More at here, borrow.

I found both the links filled with etymologies that had no substance in the connections made. Holland apparently is from holtland. There is Helle or Heilli at the mouth of the Vistula but that's about all I know for any relation to that name of the sea at any time and it's not the North Sea. Since that area was the Frisian Sea once, it's possible it was called the Helle Sea there.

http://upload.wikime...teris_typus.jpg

It answered nothing.

Edited by The Puzzler

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The post I made earlier got lost because I'm still getting used to the new editor.

Here it is again (with comment).

I have tried to explain this earlier (in context of cultural difference between North-Holland and rest of NL), but pictures often say more than words.

I think it is significant.

I wish I had statistics for North-Holland WITHOUT Amsterdam and Haarlem.

texland_NWfliland.jpg

atheismNL1920.jpg

NLProvincies19201960.png

These percentages clearly show that in 1920 the province North-Holland was least religious.

Source: http://www.nidi.knaw.nl/Content/NIDI/demos/2010/demos-26-09-beets2.pdf

If the biggest cities Amsterdam and Haarlem would not have been included, the percentage of unreligious people in NH would probably have been even higher.

This supports my theory that the original 'free-Frisian' (or Fryan) spirit survived more in North-Holland than in the province Friesland. It may also explain why the Over de Linden family moved from Leeuwarden (FRL) to Enkhuizen (NH).

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It says:

The name Helle has been used for the North Sea, which was called Holle, referring to "Holland". The Frisian name for the North Sea is Harle respectively Har, which correlates to herring6 , and to the following number of (mostly Dutch) town-names: Middelharnis, Haringvliet, Harlem, Harlingen, Hargen7, Harle8 and in English: Harwich as well as in the English word „harbour“.

Harbour

Etymology

From Middle English herber, herberge, from Old English herebeorg (“shelter, lodgings, quarters”), from Proto-Germanic *harjaz (“army”) + *bergô (“protection”), equivalent to Old English here (“army, host”) + ġebeorg (“defense, protection, refuge”). Cognate with Old Norse herbergi (“a harbour; a room”) (whence the Icelandic herbergi), Dutch herberg, German Herberge ‘hospice’, Swedish härbärge. Compare also French auberge (“hostel”). More at here, borrow.

I found both the links filled with etymologies that had no substance in the connections made. Holland apparently is from holtland. There is Helle or Heilli at the mouth of the Vistula but that's about all I know for any relation to that name of the sea at any time and it's not the North Sea. Since that area was the Frisian Sea once, it's possible it was called the Helle Sea there.

http://upload.wikime...teris_typus.jpg

It answered nothing.

It said a lot. And it did what you always do: gather a lot of somewhat similar words and start juggling.

But I am not going to go on with this 'hel' because it doesn't show up as such in the OLB.

There are enough words left in the OLB to analyze.

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If the name on that map Heilli is related to heill it could be the landform is called hole really, because it is a harbour shaped hole. Heli became circle because it was relative to the word hole I spose.

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Posted (edited)

It said a lot. And it did what you always do: gather a lot of somewhat similar words and start juggling.

But I am not going to go on with this 'hel' because it doesn't show up as such in the OLB.

There are enough words left in the OLB to analyze.

Fair enough and their was a lot of juggling and it was interesting but I don't think it solved anything new for me, that's all. Hell is certainly in the OLB as hellinger, hill - the question is, how far did the word radiate and is the OLB Fryan form the original - but I won't go on about it anymore here.

One thing though I see: hald in the Frisian Dictionary is inclined, then North - then it has hallr - the Frisians would call the North Sea a deriviative of this word if anything. This would still go through to hill.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Posted (edited)

Fair enough and their was a lot of juggling and it was interesting but I don't think it solved anything new for me, that's all. Hell is certainly in the OLB as hellinger, hill - the question is, how far did the word radiate and is the OLB Fryan form the original - but I won't go on about it anymore here.

One thing though I see: hald in the Frisian Dictionary is inclined, then North - then it has hallr - the Frisians would call the North Sea a deriviative of this word if anything. This would still go through to hill.

Not that anyone probably cares but hêlich would be whole, complete - holy, not what I said before about light.

Every Frisian hêl word is relative to healing and whole and every hel word is to do with concealing, secret.

These really seem like the early (earliest) forms of these words based on 2 simple words, hêl and hel and hel is probably related to hal (hill) an even earlier version of conceal.

Edited by The Puzzler

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What is kind of telling is that the word "hellinga" in the OLB shows up nowhere else in any Old Frisian dictionary. And that is probably because it is a Middle Dutch word.

helling = slope, hillside, inclination, declension ...but also slipway

http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/helling

NOW WE SHALL WRITE HOW IT FARED WITH JON.

IT IS INSCRIBED AT TEXLAND.

(..)

Hja wêron mith felum tekad aend hju hêdon hjara skula vppa hellinga thêra bergum. Thêrthrvch send hja thrvch vs folk Hellinggar hêten.

They were clothed in skins, and had their dwellings on the slopes (hellinga) of the hills, wherefore they were called Hellingers.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bb

And about the word 'hel' in the meaning of 'light' and 'bright', please check this page of part -I- of this thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=9675&p=4183283entry4183283

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A related word in OLB is HELD, which relates (directly and/or indcirectly) to hail, heal, health, whole, holy, (german and dutch:) heil, (dutch:) heel, held (hero), hagel... et cetera.

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A related word in OLB is HELD, which relates (directly and/or indcirectly) to hail, heal, health, whole, holy, (german and dutch:) heil, (dutch:) heel, held (hero), hagel... et cetera.

Are you sure? I checked just now - after reading your post, and HELD has to do with 'to hold'.

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Are you sure? I checked just now - after reading your post, and HELD has to do with 'to hold'.

Very well possible.

Wishing someone 'heil', or 'behoud' (as in behouden vaart) is virtually the same.

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What is kind of telling is that the word "hellinga" in the OLB shows up nowhere else in any Old Frisian dictionary. And that is probably because it is a Middle Dutch word.

helling = slope, hillside, inclination, declension ...but also slipway

http://www.etymologi...efwoord/helling

NOW WE SHALL WRITE HOW IT FARED WITH JON.

IT IS INSCRIBED AT TEXLAND.

(..)

Hja wêron mith felum tekad aend hju hêdon hjara skula vppa hellinga thêra bergum. Thêrthrvch send hja thrvch vs folk Hellinggar hêten.

They were clothed in skins, and had their dwellings on the slopes (hellinga) of the hills, wherefore they were called Hellingers.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bb

And about the word 'hel' in the meaning of 'light' and 'bright', please check this page of part -I- of this thread:

http://www.unexplain...3

hald is inclined - this can be hel-de - Frisian Dictionary

what isn't in the Frisian dictionary is hel for light or bright. (that I can see)

Also, why is there 2 different e's in the OLB, one imo is pronounced differently - like with a ^ above it.

Ny-hêl-ennia

I don't think the word is bright in her name - I think it's more like whole hêl and all those branch off words from it, like new and ie; healthy.

It's late but and I can't think anymore.

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The word is Hellinggar and linga is in the Frisian Dictionary - hard to find the meaning but in English, linger means hang out or even stay around - so hel-linggars - would be hill lingerers - people who lingered (lived, stayed) in the hills.

Goodnight for now.

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Posted (edited)

The word is Hellinggar and linga is in the Frisian Dictionary - hard to find the meaning but in English, linger means hang out or even stay around - so hel-linggars - would be hill lingerers - people who lingered (lived, stayed) in the hills.

Goodnight for now.

Show me where in this version of the Old Frisian dictionary:

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-H.pdf

And the OLB word is "hellinga" as you can read in the quote in my former post.

"Hellingar" is supposed to be nothing but the plural of "hellinga" or people living on those "hellinga" as the quote explains.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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