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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

6,100 posts in this topic

Isn't 'Wralda' in the sentence before - about his fruit and nuts?

That's why I have put the name between brackets a couple of times: Otharus is convinced it is part of the next sentence, but I am not so sure.

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I like to take on the sentences literally, as they are written first, each word - then see what else can come from it, more like we'd speak now, referring to word order etc.

You should take syntax into consideration.

Or else I could translate the word 'take' into 'teak': it sounds similar to 'take' but it would have nothing to do in that sentence whatsoever.

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OK, since od is here, I'm going to use this form to translate the word od in that line. Anfang-beginning - first point, spark .

or-d

14, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Spitze, Ort, Stelle, Anfang; ne. point (N.), place

(N.); ÜG.: lat. lancea WE; Vw.: s. -ling; Hw.: vgl. got. *uzds, an. oddr, ae. ord, as.

ord*, ahd. ort (1); Q.: H, E, W, R, WE; E.: s. germ. *uzda-, *uzdaz, st. M. (a),

Spitze; vgl. idg. *øes- (4), V., stechen?, Pokorny 1172; idg. *d

hÐ- (2), *dheh1-, V.,

setzen, stellen, legen, Pokorny 235; W.: nfries. oerde; W.: nnordfries. od; L.: Hh

--------------------------------------

be·gin·ning (bibreve.gif-gibreve.gifnprime.gifibreve.gifng)

n.

1. The act or process of bringing or being brought into being; a start.

2. The time when something begins or is begun: the beginning of the war.

3. The place where something begins or is begun: at the beginning of the road.

4. A source; an origin: What was the beginning of the dispute?

5. The first part: The front matter is at the beginning of the book.

6. An early or rudimentary phase. Often used in the plural: the beginnings of human life on this planet.

Synonyms: beginning, birth, dawn, genesis, nascence, rise

These nouns denote the initial stage of a developmental process: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beginning

---------------------------------

Since od is anfang - beginning or point, place, all associated words could be used instead of od: - none sound as good as OD though, so OD was the point, place but also the beginning point, the spark of life.

Anfang:

start

outset

inception

beginning

initial

onset

commencement

top

debut

opening

initiation

origin

starting

kickoff

startup

init

setout

incipience

beginnings

You should take syntax into consideration.

Or else I could translate the word 'take' into 'teak': it sounds similar to 'take' but it would have nothing to do in that sentence whatsoever.

I check them all.

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treda in Frisian which seems to be trâd goes through a multitude of meanings - tradition, from trans/over... hand over, deliver - trader would have been the delivery man, handing over the goods.

Anyway, the Frisian dictionary has treda as treda and TREE - then type in trâd in Google and what comes up? TREE.

Now we are getting to the 'root' of trâd methinks.

Edited by The Puzzler

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I think you lost me now: what has the word "anfang" to do with what we were talking about?

And 'anfang' or 'Dutch 'aanvang' indeed means 'start' or 'beginning', but still....

:blink:

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treda in Frisian which seems to be trâd goes through a multitude of meanings - tradition, from trans/over... hand over, deliver - trader would have been the delivery man, handing over the goods.

Anyway, the Frisian dictionary has treda as treda and TREE - then type in trâd in Google and what comes up? TREE.

Now we are getting to the 'root' of trâd methinks.

What's the problem?

We already know that it means 'to tred' in English or 'treden' in Dutch?

You are making this unnecessarily complicated.

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What's the problem?

We already know that it means 'to tred' in English or 'treden' in Dutch?

You are making this unnecessarily complicated.

No, Im trying to find a good meaning for trâd - which rather than 'made a path' or tread inside them, could actually mean 'rooted' in side them, took root etc because Frisian quite distinctly has it as not only tread but TREE.

I think you lost me now: what has the word "anfang" to do with what we were talking about?

And 'anfang' or 'Dutch 'aanvang' indeed means 'start' or 'beginning', but still....

:blink:

Because where it said OD in the Frisian Dictionary at ord it also says anfang - which is beginning. So OD can mean this.

Edited by The Puzzler

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I like wasting time, working out what words really mean.

In W.: nnordfries again: (same as where od was)

tre-d-a

4, afries., st. V. (5): nhd. treten; ne. tread (V.); Vw.: s. *for-; Hw.: vgl. an.

troOEa, ae. tredan, anfrk. tredan, as. *tredan, ahd. tretan*; Q.: E, H, AA 21, AA

266

74; E.: germ. *tredan, st. V., treten; idg. *dreu-, V., laufen, treten, Pokorny 204; s.

idg. *der- (3), *drõ-, V., laufen, treten, Pokorny 204; W.: nfries. tredden, V.,

treten; W.: saterl. treda, V., treten; W.: nnordfries. trede, tree, V., treten; L.: Hh

115b, Rh 1093b, AA 21, AA 74

Swedish

From Old Norse tré through Old Swedish trǣ(e)t (“the tree”), later trǣdh and trädh

http://en.wiktionary...i/träd#Swedish

Verb

träda

  1. to tread, to walk, to step
  2. to thread (pearls on a string), commonly contracted to trä
  3. to plow (a fallow)
  4. http://en.wiktionary.../träda#Swedish

Swedish

Idiom

pengar växer inte träd

money doesn't grow on trees

Curious how 'the tree' became interpreted into tread, to walk, to step.

thread is a form of fallow, which means to be cultivated but only seeded once a year, like Frya, Lyda and Finda (at each Juul time) - maybe the OD ploughed them...lol

3

: to copulate with —used of a male bird http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tread

tread softly for here lies Adela does not have tread, it has hlap (step) - so treda as tread might not be actually the meaning in the OLB text.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Otharus is convinced it is part of the next sentence...

Because there is a full stop between DRAMA and WRALDA'S, and nothing between WRALDA'S and OD.

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I know you think it is a hyphen, but many hyphens look like full stops and vice versa.

puntofkoppelteken.jpg

Here is an example of a few pages ahead, where a full stop looks like it could have been be a hyphen.

puntofkoppelteken2.jpg

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Because where it said OD in the Frisian Dictionary at ord it also says anfang - which is beginning. So OD can mean this.

It also said "nnfries" or neu nordfries = NEW north Frisian.

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No, Im trying to find a good meaning for trâd - which rather than 'made a path' or tread inside them, could actually mean 'rooted' in side them, took root etc because Frisian quite distinctly has it as not only tread but TREE.

Again: nnordfries. trede, tree

And it's not the English TREE and also has nothing to do with any tree, but it's short for TREDEN. We even say it here, in poems: treeën or tree-en. The -D- get swallowed up, but it still means TREDEN or to tread.

You better not follow that path, for it leads nowhere.

We Dutch, and also the Frisians, leave out a -D- regularly:

DU: lade ('lah-duh') >> la ('lah') EN: drawer

DU: trede ('trey-duh') >> tree ('trey') EN: step or stair ,

And less official:

LODEN = made from lead, lead as adjective. Many pronounce it here as 'looie', or 'loh-yuh'.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Again: nnordfries. trede, tree

And it's not the English TREE and also has nothing to do with any tree, but it's short for TREDEN. We even say it here, in poems: treeën or tree-en. The -D- get swallowed up, but it still means TREDEN or to tread.

You better not follow that path, for it leads nowhere.

We Dutch, and also the Frisians, leave out a -D- regularly:

DU: lade ('lah-duh') >> la ('lah') EN: drawer

DU: trede ('trey-duh') >> tree ('trey') EN: step or stair ,

And less official:

LODEN = made from lead, lead as adjective. Many pronounce it here as 'looie', or 'loh-yuh'.

.

Seemingly so.

I still think it's an unknown possibilty, considering the tree of life or tree of the world goes up to heaven, like a ladder, tread. You can climb a tree too and one with no leaves can look just like a ladder. Think Jacob's Ladder. Did Jacob really climb a 'ladder' or was he climbing the world tree, who knows or maybe nobody wants us to know.

Anyway, I think plow/plough being part of treda is more interesting, considering how the 'Plough' in the night sky treads around the Pole Star. At the top of the tree.

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OK, it's getting funnier every time: Wralda's (r )od plowed through them, and....

:lol:

.

Edited by Abramelin

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OK, it's getting funnier every time: Wralda's (r )od plowed through them, and....

:lol:

.

I know it sounds funny but tread and plow mean basically make a path, as you turn the soil or tear up the ground. Astronomically, the dot/od would be the Pole Star and the plough is the ox, or pathway, treading around it.

Interestingly...

These seven stars (septentriones, from the phrase septem triōnēs, meaning "seven plough oxen"[5]) are the origin of the Latin word septentriōnēs meaning "north" and now found as the adjective septentrional (northern) in English, French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. This etymology goes back to a passage in Varro (Marcus Terentius) who explains that triōn- (a word not attested elsewhere) means "plough ox" and derives the form from terō, one of whose meanings is "thresh grain by rubbing".The derivation is acceptable (Latin short vowels often syncopate before -r- in medial syllables), but the meaning, if Varro is right about the root derivation, is surely "threshing ox", as the seven stars (oxen) perpetually wheel about the pole star like oxen on a threshing floor.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Big_dipper

Just for interest:

Here's a picture from Sweden of someone with an ARD (plough)

220px-Petroglypgh_Group_Nordic_Bronze_Age_009.svg.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ard_(plough)

which can be found at erd and ere...

er-d

, *er-ed, afries., Sb.: nhd. Pflügen; ne. ploughing

er-e

, afries., M.?: nhd. Pflügen; ne. ploughing

Edited by The Puzzler

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By ploughing a fallow field, you begin the process of life, as a seed is then planted in the fertile soil, which then grows up. These concepts go through to people.

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Let's assume that what you suggested earlier is true, and that OD comes from ORD, which (among other things that are not relevant here) means 'spear'. which would then mean it was Wralda's 'spear' entering (or plowing) the 3 earth mothers. Spear would be nothing but his pecker of course.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ord

But till how long did the Frisians use ORD before they shortened it into OD?

From the next it should be clear that that must have been up to at least a couple of centuries after 800 AD:

Old Frisian Law

The earliest Old Frisian law is known as the Lex Frisionum. It was written around 800 A.D. in Latin at the behest of the emperor Charlemagne. There are also several other sets of laws that were written somewhat later. These are mostly in Old Frisian. A good introduction to Old Frisian Law, if you can read Dutch, is N.E. Algra, Oudfries Recht, 800-1256 (Ljouwert: Fryske Akademy, 2000). Unfortunately, most old Frisian law is available only in Dutch or German translation, not in English. The most important exception is the Skeltariucht, parts of which are presented below.

II. Thit is riucht thet thi fria Fresa ni thor fira hereferd fara, thur ban ni thur bod, than mittha ebba wt and mittha flode up, truch tha ned, thet hi thenne ower alle degan wera skel with thenne salta se and with thenne wilda witsing, mith fif wepnem, mith spada and mith forka, mith skelde and mith swerde and mith etkeres orde [thur thet, thet hi thenne ower waria skel], bi enre liudwerthene, ther hit him keth worde mith boda iefta mith bakne. Iefta sexasum swera, thet hit him mith boda ni mith bakne keth ni worde.

Translation:

This is the law: the free Frisian need make no further foray, whether under proclamation or order, than out with the ebb and back with the flood; because he needs must guard the shore, day in, day out, against the salt sea and the wild viking with five weapons: with spade and with fork, with shield and with sword, and with spear's point. (And this he must do) on pain of one wergeld(*), whenever notice is given him by messenger or by beacon, or else swear with five compurgators that such notice was not given him.

http://www.languagea...rg/SKELTANA.HTM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild

Old Skeltariucht: law book containing Old West Frisian legal stipulations prescribing the duties of the skelta (comp. Dutch ‘schout’ = bailiff)

http://www.tresoar.n...gen.css〈=en

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Let's assume that what you suggested earlier is true, and that OD comes from ORD, which (among other things that are not relevant here) means 'spear'. which would then mean it was Wralda's 'spear' entering (or plowing) the 3 earth mothers. Spear would be nothing but his pecker of course.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ord

But till how long did the Frisians use ORD before they shortened it into OD?

From the next it should be clear that that must have been up to at least a couple of centuries after 800 AD:

II. Thit is riucht thet thi fria Fresa ni thor fira hereferd fara, thur ban ni thur bod, than mittha ebba wt and mittha flode up, truch tha ned, thet hi thenne ower alle degan wera skel with thenne salta se and with thenne wilda witsing, mith fif wepnem, mith spada and mith forka, mith skelde and mith swerde and mith etkeres orde [thur thet, thet hi thenne ower waria skel], bi enre liudwerthene, ther hit him keth worde mith boda iefta mith bakne. Iefta sexasum swera, thet hit him mith boda ni mith bakne keth ni worde.

Translation:

This is the law: the free Frisian need make no further foray, whether under proclamation or order, than out with the ebb and back with the flood; because he needs must guard the shore, day in, day out, against the salt sea and the wild viking with five weapons: with spade and with fork, with shield and with sword, and with spear's point. (And this he must do) on pain of one wergeld(*), whenever notice is given him by messenger or by beacon, or else swear with five compurgators that such notice was not given him.

(snip)

.

The orde would be the spear POINT. It's a dot.

I don't know, you're saying they shortened stuff all the time. to ra - how long till they shortened to hjara into that? Who knows. Maybe OD came first.

Edited by The Puzzler

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Ah yes, etkeres orde, spear's point:

et-gê-r* 5, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Speer; ne. spear (N.); Hw.: vgl. an. atgeirr, ae.

Útgõr, ahd. azgÐr; Q.: H, E, W; E.: germ. *atgaiza-, *atgaizaz, *atigaiza-,

*atigaizaz, st. M. (a), Speer; s. idg. *haiso-, Sb., Stecken (M.), Spieß (M.) (1),

Speer, Pokorny.

or-d 14, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Spitze, Ort, Stelle, Anfang; ne. point (N.), place

(N.); ÜG.: lat. lancea WE; Vw.: s. -ling; Hw.: vgl. got. *uzds, an. oddr, ae. ord, as.

ord*, ahd. ort (1); Q.: H, E, W, R, WE; E.: s. germ. *uzda-, *uzdaz, st. M. (a),

Spitze; vgl. idg. *øes- (4), V., stechen?, Pokorny 1172; idg. *dhÐ- (2), *dheh1-, V.,

setzen, stellen, legen, Pokorny 235; W.: nfries. oerde; W.: nnordfries. od; L.: Hh.

OK, so it is "Wralda's point plowed inside them, and...."

Hettema also mentions atkers and etekeris for spear's.

http://images.tresoa...heWetten_21.pdf

But he also uses ORDE for point, not OD.

So it still is a relative recent word.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Ah yes, etkeres orde, spearpoint:

et-gê-r* 5, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Speer; ne. spear (N.); Hw.: vgl. an. atgeirr, ae.

Útgõr, ahd. azgÐr; Q.: H, E, W; E.: germ. *atgaiza-, *atgaizaz, *atigaiza-,

*atigaizaz, st. M. (a), Speer; s. idg. *haiso-, Sb., Stecken (M.), Spieß (M.) (1),

Speer, Pokorny.

or-d 14, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Spitze, Ort, Stelle, Anfang; ne. point (N.), place

(N.); ÜG.: lat. lancea WE; Vw.: s. -ling; Hw.: vgl. got. *uzds, an. oddr, ae. ord, as.

ord*, ahd. ort (1); Q.: H, E, W, R, WE; E.: s. germ. *uzda-, *uzdaz, st. M. (a),

Spitze; vgl. idg. *øes- (4), V., stechen?, Pokorny 1172; idg. *dhÐ- (2), *dheh1-, V.,

setzen, stellen, legen, Pokorny 235; W.: nfries. oerde; W.: nnordfries. od; L.: Hh.

OK, so it is "Wralda's point plowed inside them, and...."

Hettema also mentions atkers and etekeris for spear.

http://images.tresoa...heWetten_21.pdf

OK, now see anfang - point of origin/beginning or a genesis, a spark, a seed of life.

Anfang is on the Jul wheel.

Hwat hyr boppa staet send thi têkna fon thaet jol. Thaet is thaet forma sinnebild Wr.aldas, âk fon t-anfang jeftha-t bijin, wêrut tid kêm

What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived;

Time is derived from the anfang, the point (of origin) - the OD

Edit: (I also just noticed that i has no dot but the j on the t'bijin wheel has a dot) j might hold an earlier form of what od is...

Wralda's OD - not literally pointed object but point, dot, seed - I recall the Bok Saga guy saying the letter i was a penis and sperm, the sperm part - the dot. But also what you say, rod, from OD, could be true and the whole part is combined - i. Always these ancient Nordic gods getting around with big rods - fertility cultures. Or holding lances, which might have been more appropriate to represent this in some cultures, maybe Greece.

This is the root of old fertility cults, the lightening impregnates the earth during thunderstorms. The spark from the sky reaches down to the earth - this concept I am seeing in the same way, to whatever it is Frya Finda and Lyda truly represent - which may be connected with time.

trad - plow/plough - the plough enters the ground and impregnates it with seed - so some form of this is in the word trad I think. Ottema has hatred found it's way among them. Brush off hatred, he next saying 'found its way' - again, a reference to pathway, even enter, tread - plow - if you plow into someone in a car accident you basically bang into them straight on and really hard...

This is how I'm seeing these words, in concept form of how this type of birth would occur - like Virgin births, conception by God - some spark of God enters them.

I was just brushing up on Frya/Frigga and what she represents in relation to it all - she sits at her spinning wheel - which is Yule itself - the wheel, and spins the fates of mankind. She gives birth at the Winter Solstice as the OLB says - to a new Sun/son Baldr, but twins is not mentioned for her, but what about Leto, light? she could be some form of Frya, who is usually associated with light, gold etc. Anyway thats for another time.

http://www.goddessgi...winter-solstice.htm

Edited by The Puzzler

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The orde would be the spear POINT. It's a dot.

I don't know, you're saying they shortened stuff all the time. to ra - how long till they shortened to hjara into that? Who knows. Maybe OD came first.

I don't think it's very likely the change went from OD to ORD. I'm, pretty sure it must have went the other way round.

So either the OLB OD doesn't mean 'point' at all, or it does mean 'point', and then it is a rather recent thing (after, say, the 11th century).

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I would not use the Bok Saga in this discussion, lol.

And the -i- with dot is, like I posted a couple of days ago, also a rather recent invention.

The tittle first appeared in Latin manuscripts in the 11th century, to distinguish the letter i from strokes of nearby letters. Although originally a larger mark, it was reduced to a dot when Roman-style typefaces were introduced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tittle

.

Edited by Abramelin

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I don't think it's very likely the change went from OD to ORD. I'm, pretty sure it must have went the other way round.

So either the OLB OD doesn't mean 'point' at all, or it does mean 'point', and then it is a rather recent thing (after, say, the 11th century).

Hebrew dot in same is called YOD. These words and concepts are old. Did you catch my edit? - look at the Juul wheels, the i has no dot, but the j has.

Goodnight for now, need more sleep lol.

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The OLB script has an -l- without dot (or tittle), and one with a dot, like a modern -i-

The first one is an -i-

The second one is a -j- .

And the Dutch/Frisian -j- is like the English -y- in 'yes'.

(EDIT: your link is not working)

.

Edited by Abramelin

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The OLB script has an -l- without dot (or tittle), and one with a dot, like a modern -i-

The first one is an -i-

The second one is a -j- .

And the Dutch/Frisian -j- is like the English -y- in 'yes'.

(EDIT: your link is not working)

.

Yes, thats right, I know that. In t'bijin. That's what I was pointing out - j might hold a more original form of what the dot represents, rather than i.

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