Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

So, according to you, it went from

(1) Medeasblik >

(2) Medemalaka/Medemelacha (the river course and the villa) >

(3) Medemblik.

Yes.

[Abramelin]

No one answered about BLIK.

Medeasblik.

blik comes up as show - which at first I didn't get was show as in 'show someone something - to look at' , I thought it was a show, performance, but I guess they are related too.

so I gather it was Medea's Look/watchhouse

http://en.wiktionary.../blik#Old_Norse

http://en.wiktionary...ddle_Low_German

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/look

From an 18th century source:

(...) veele zodanige Afgoden heeft geëerd en gediend, en daarvan veele plaatsen de naamen getrokken hebben, als Medenblik, van Medea blik, diens beeld men zegt dat van den toren tot in Friesland eertijds blonk, waardoor een zeggen is gekomen, als de zon daarop begon te schijnen : Ziet Medea blikt

(...) many such idols were worshiped and served, and many places have drawn their names from them, like Medenblik from Medea blik, whose statue is said to have once been shining brightly from the tower into Friesland, creating a saying - when the sun started shining on this statue - "Behold, Medea looks"

De Nederlandsche stad- en dorp-beschrijver, Volume 4 Door Lieven Van Ollefen, Rs Bakker

/ 1796

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

But Van den Bergh (1836) doesn't think that is a very plausible explanation because of the extra -EM in the name.

http://books.google....schijnt&f=false

.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[lilthor]

"God-his" is an OLB fabrication.

It's either "Godis" or "God's".

lol...I know. I just wanted to try it on for size.

[Abramelin]

lol...I know. I just wanted to try it on for size.

I hope you also read what I posted later on... I was wrong.

It also shows up in the earliest manuscripts of the Anglo Saxon Chronicle.

[Abramelin]

Constantijn Huygens, Stede-stemmen en dorpen (1624)

Vertaling: Frans Mensonides

(Constantijn Huygens, City-voices and villages (1624)

Translation: Frans Mensonides)

MEDENBLICK.

West Vriesen, weest getuijgh, ’khebba [A] Koningen gevoedt,

West Vriesche Koningen, de Voogden van uw goed.

Maer dat ick mé den blick van {B] Waerheits helle stralen

Mijn [c] 'Gulde Toovenaers’ ter hellen sagh doen dalen,

Was meer verheugens waerd, en ’tdienen onder God

Veel vrijer vrijicheit dan ’tConincklick gebod

Daer Godes niet en was. Noch staen ick verr van ’tslaven,

Maer vrijelick ten dienst die mij de Vrijheit gaven;

All heb ick over lang de gunsticheit beloont,

En Holland [D] eerst het pad naer ’t Gulde Vlies gethoont.

[A]Dirck (Sone van Radbod) Dibbald, Beroald ende andere Koningen van Westvriesland.

Adelgil Sone van Beroald liet Wilfrid het Christelijck gelooff preken.

[C] Medea, die daer plagh aengebeden te werden in een gulden beeld.

[D] De eerste Schipper naer Guinea was van MedenBlick, ao. 1593.

http://www.fransmens...mmen_totaal.htm

In English:

MEDENBLICK

Westfrisians, be my witness, I have fed [A] Kings.

Westfrisian Kings, the guardians of your property.

But that I, with the luster of the bright rays of Truth,

Could watch my [C] 'Golden Sorcerers' descend into Hell,

deserved more joy, and serving God gave me much more freedom than Royal command

When God's wasn't being served. Still I am far from enslaving,

But I will freely serve those who gave me freedom;

Though I have long ago paid for the favor,

And first led Holland [D] to the path of the Golden Fleese.

[A] Dirck (son of Radbod) Dibbald, Beroald and other

Kings of Westfriesland.

Adelgil, son of Beroald, allowed Wilfrid to preach the

Christian faith.

[C] Medea who used to be worshipped there with a golden statue.

[D] The first seafarer to Guinea came from Medenblick, in the year

1593.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

From an 18th century source:

(...) veele zodanige Afgoden heeft geëerd en gediend, en daarvan veele plaatsen de naamen getrokken hebben, als Medenblik, van Medea blik, diens beeld men zegt dat van den toren tot in Friesland eertijds blonk, waardoor een zeggen is gekomen, als de zon daarop begon te schijnen : Ziet Medea blikt

(...) many such idols were worshiped and served, and many places have drawn their names from them, like Medenblik from Medea blik, whose statue is said to have once been shining brightly from the tower into Friesland, creating a saying - when the sun started shining on this statue - "Behold, Medea looks"

De Nederlandsche stad- en dorp-beschrijver, Volume 4 Door Lieven Van Ollefen, Rs Bakker

/ 1796

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

But Van den Bergh (1836) doesn't think that is a very plausible explanation because of the extra -EM in the name.

http://books.google....schijnt&f=false

.

Behold Medea LOOKS = MedeaBLIK, how interesting and so is your 2nd Medea post, Medea seems to have actually existed - although when is always the question.

[Van Gorp]

Had you not learned from the meaning of the Latin or Greek words first, you would not have been able to make any sense of these words using your 'etymology'.

SATURNUS: Zaad urn.

Lol.

,

Turn it around:

If we know intuitively 'Helich-Hohn' (Heilig Hoghen) as a description of sacred place high above, any 'b******' language talking about Helicon is understood without any formal etymology or myth.

The descriptions used in myths are in best case only affirmations of the basic meaning of the word.

In OLB this seems to be demonstrated with many examples (or wordplay for some), but we are used to take (because given) the fake for real, and then the real seems to be too simple/ridiculous.

In case of Latin: what 'original' language could be that complicated? It is of no practical use.

[Otharus]

People will always have played with words and names.

Anyway, in Westfriesland they do. I grew up with it.

That the meaning of so many toponyms and personal names is uncertain, even in the oldest sources, simply shows how old they must be.

Some of the OLB-etymologies don't have to be the right ones.

THey will have tried to make sense of names just like we do.

Or they made fun with it, or they were deliberately changing the meaning, who knows?

We should be less anal about it.

[Otharus]

... we are used to take (because given) the fake for real, and then the real seems to be too simple/ridiculous.

Exactly!

In case of Latin: what 'original' language could be that complicated? It is of no practical use.

I agree.

Latin was a language designed to be written, not an oral language of the people.

The example of GÁRD, garden, giardino, jardin proves that Latin was a new language.

If it was really that old we would all be using varieties of HORTUS.

Even in Italy they say giardino.

If it was a practical language that had evolved naturally, it would have stayed.

We would all be using it.

I am happy that we do not.

[Abramelin]

Turn it around:

If we know intuitively 'Helich-Hohn' (Heilig Hoghen) as a description of sacred place high above, any 'b******' language talking about Helicon is understood without any formal etymology or myth.

The descriptions used in myths are in best case only affirmations of the basic meaning of the word.

In OLB this seems to be demonstrated with many examples (or wordplay for some), but we are used to take (because given) the fake for real, and then the real seems to be too simple/ridiculous.

In case of Latin: what 'original' language could be that complicated? It is of no practical use.

Van Gorp, I see you doing 'etymology' the way Edo Nyland does it: he chops up a word into small parts (even to single letters), then changes these parts into complete Basque (also modern Basque) words to get a whole sentence, and that sentence (or row of words) is supposed to be the original Basque meaning of the word. Any word, from any language.

But withouth first knowing what the unmutilated word stands for, he cannot perform his trick.

There is nothing 'intuitive''about that method. You can perform that trick using any language if you try hard enough, as long as you know of the 'standard accepted' etymology, or else you will be lost.

What you (as a Dutch or Belgium man) are doing for the Dutch language is the same as nowadays many Turks do for the Turkish language, many Hungarians for the Magyar language, Albanians for the Albanian langugae, Macedonians for the Macedonian language, and no doubt I forgot several other nationalities: prove your language is the oldest, most original, and most wide spread language around.

To Edo Nyland's defence I can say: he's not a Basque (he's Dutch).

.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Behold Medea LOOKS = MedeaBLIK, how interesting and so is your 2nd Medea post, Medea seems to have actually existed - although when is always the question.

As I showed you from - I think - Hamconius' work, a long time ago, there was a group of gods and goddesses in Frisian territory, and one of them was called "Meda". But Hamconius (or one of his predecessors, Okko Scarlensis, if he even ever existed) were known to use quite a lot of imagination.

Btw, Puzz, I have tried for a couple of hours to find some depiction of this "Medea" in some old(er) book, but up to now I haven't found anything yet.

Oh, and it's a short step from "Meda" (which means 'virgin' or 'maiden' - maagd - according to Van den Bergh) to "Medea".

[Abramelin]

Exactly!

I agree.

Latin was a language designed to be written, not an oral language of the people.

The example of GÁRD, garden, giardino, jardin proves that Latin was a new language.

If it was really that old we would all be using varieties of HORTUS.

Even in Italy they say giardino.

If it was a practical language that had evolved naturally, it would have stayed.

We would all be using it.

I am happy that we do not.

You're happy we do not??

I hope you know we borrowed a lot of words from Latin and Greek, in modern times, and already in the early middle ages.

Do you put your laundry in a washing machine, or in a "droogslingeraar" (= new Flemish)?

===

About "gaard":

In Latin it is "hortus", in Greek it is "Chortos". The different vowels are caused by socalled 'vowel shift'.

They are - like all your other examples - nothing but derivations of a Proto IE word or a Proto-Germanic word. Or many different derivations of an older word. It proves all these peoples are somehow related *(linguistically at least) if you travel back in time far enough. And your map still doesn't prove the source for all these words (or this word in particular) is Fryan.

And how about the Dutch/Frisian word "tuin" or "tūn" (Fris)? It never spread beyond the North Sea area, although some think it may have been Celtic in origin ("dūn" then is a hillfort. Unlikely to be the original of something like a garden).

I think this "tuin" is older than "gaard" or "garden".

town

O.E. tun "enclosure, garden, field, yard; farm, manor; homestead, dwelling house, mansion;" later "group of houses, village, farm," from P.Gmc. *tunaz, *tunan (cf. O.S., O.N., O.Fris. tun "fence, hedge," M.Du. tuun "fence," Du. tuin "garden," O.H.G. zun, Ger. Zaun "fence, hedge"), an early borrowing from Celtic *dunom (cf. O.Ir. dun, Welsh din "fortress, fortified place, camp," dinas "city;" see down (n.2)). Meaning "inhabited place larger than a village" (mid-12c.) arose after the Norman conquest, to correspond to Fr. ville.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=town&searchmode=none

.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Kantzveldt]

Hello,

i know the amount of time/posts that have gone into this subject, so i expect you will have covered this, but am wondering what was made of it;

In Tacitus' Germania, the author mentions rumors of what he describes as "Pillars of Hercules" in land inhabited by the Frisii that had yet to be explored.^[12] Tacitus adds that these pillars exist either because Hercules actually did go there or because the Romans have agreed to ascribe all marvels anywhere to Hercules' credit. Tacitus states that while Drusus Germanicus was daring in his campaigns against the Germanic tribes, he was unable to reach this region, and that subsequently no one had yet made the attempt.^[13] Connections have been proposed between these "Pillars of Hercules" and later accounts of the Irminsul

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminsul

The settlements of both stretch along the border of the Rhine to the ocean; and include, besides, vast lakes, which have been navigated by Roman fleets. We have even explored the ocean itself on that side; and fame reports that columns of Hercules are still remaining on that coast; whether it be that Hercules was ever there in reality, or that whatever great and magnificent is any where met with is, by common consent, ascribed to his renowned name. The attempt of Drusus Germanicus to make discoveries in these parts was sufficiently daring; but the ocean opposed any further inquiry into itself and Hercules.

http://www.elfinspel...usGermany4.html

I was surprised that Spanuth who makes the case for Atlantis myth being based on late bronze age culture in the North sea region seemingly not being aware of these Frisian Pillars of Hercules, the case is made here without referance to such;

http://frontiers-of-...r-bischoff.html

Edited May 22, 2012 by Kantzveldt

[Abramelin]

Hi Kantzveldt,

Not to put you off - we really need 'fresh blood' in this thread, lol - but if you click on the second link in my signature, you will be redirected to the first - and now archived - part of this thread. Then enter "pillars" in the search tool for that thread (then click on the magnifying glass) and you will read what we all posted about those Pillars.

Anyway, Spanuth may have considered the tall rocks of Heligoland, near the entrance of the river Elbe in the German Bight, as being those Pillars. One of them is called "Lange Anne" (Tall Anne).

Iman Wilkens - who wrote a book about "Troy in England" suggested the rocks of Dover and Calais were these Pillars. Perhaps he was thinking of the old Flemish/Belgian name for Calais "Kales". Now fabricate something Celtish-ish, and you will get "Hern Kales" or Kales' Corner, or the rocky outcrop near Calais.

Then, there is an ancient (medieval) map depicting these Pillars near the entrance of the Frisian "Middle Sea", while another ancient medieval map depicts them somewhere in the province of Drenthe, south-east of the present province of Friesland. Some thought that the "hunebedden" (dolmen) overthere where these pillars, but if you know how they look, you will realize that is very unlikely.

Now I have come up several times with the OLB "Kadik" (of which is suggested by many to be "Cadiz") being nothing but a fishing town called "Katwijk". The town's name is locally pronounced like "Kattik" or "Kaddik".

To my surprise I found again an old image in a book that shows two pillars (much like your 'irminsuls') on both sides of the entrance of the harbour in "Lugdumum" near (or at) Katwijk.

Give me a moment, and will post that pic again.

+++

EDIT:

Here it is:

Btw: right now there is an archeological dig going on in Katwijk to look for an ancient (Roman) harbour.

.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Kantzveldt]

Interesting thanks, it seemed to me the Romans were describing, in terms of great and magnificent, actual man made columns. If you look at how the Irminsul could be depicted, then a harbour is an appropriate context for them to have been placed, a lot of their symbolism involves binding together, whether Heaven and Earth, land and sea, male and female, North and South or East/West, winter/summer etc.

http://odinsvolk.ca/irminsul.htm

[Abramelin]

Interesting thanks, it seemed to me the Romans were describing, in terms of great and magnificent, actual man made columns. If you look at how the Irminsul could be depicted, then a harbour is an appropriate context for them to have been placed, a lot of their symbolism involves binding together, whether Heaven and Earth, land and sea, male and female, North and South or East/West, winter/summer etc.

http://odinsvolk.ca/irminsul.htm

It certainly looks like it: manmade columns.

But - if we have interpretated Roman and Greek writings correctly that is - then the known 'Pillars Of Hercules' would be the natural rocks at both sides of the Strait of Gibraltar.

Would anyone call wooden poles 'Pillars of Hercules'?

It's like me calling the building I live in (one of two separate towers of an appartment complex) "Twin Towers". And the building is only 42 meters (126 feet) high or something.

Well, I jokingly did once, but would the Romans have been joking or were we wrong calling the rocks near the Strait of Gibraltar "Pillars of Hercules"?

[Abramelin]

I often have to think of the pillars in front of Solomon's temple, the Jachin and Boaz.

According to this site those pillars, Thor's pillars, the Irminsuls and other (pairs of) pillars have a common origin:

http://gnosis.home.i...com/pillars.htm

Also interesting to learn that the original name for the Pillars of Hercules (= near the Strait of Gibraltar) is the Phoenician "Pillars of Melqart".

And I remember from all the times we dug up old maps of that strait (by/based on Ptolemy and others) that quite a few times those Joachin and Boaz pillars were depicted near the entrance of the Med.

+++

EDIT:

As is often said, the temple of Solomon was built by or with the help of the Phoenicians. Did they slip in those two pillars?

.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[Kantzveldt]

There's no doubt that the straits of Gibraltar were the understood Geographic location for the mythological Pillars of Hercules, what seems to be the case is that the Romans saw pillars/columns erected which made them relate to that context, coastline pillars erected either side of a narrow strait or harbour, thus they considered these might have been erected by Hercules himself.

Such columns would represent dualities/polarities, that could be bound into one, and yes that would be along the lines of the Phoneican/Temple columns, and later Masonic thought, such as in the Lugdumum illustration.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Kantzveldt

[Abramelin]

There's no doubt that the straits of Gibraltar were the understood Geographic location for the mythological Pillars of Hercules, what seems to be the case is that the Romans saw pillars/columns erected which made them relate to that context, coastline pillars erected either side of a narrow strait or harbour, thus they considered these might have been erected by Hercules himself.

This is what I found just now:

Temples to Melqart are found at least three Phoenician/Punic sites in Spain: Cádiz, Ibiza in the Balearic Islands and Cartagena. Near Gades/Gádeira (modern Cádiz) was the westernmost temple of Tyrian Heracles, near the eastern shore of the island (Strabo 3.5.2–3). Strabo notes (3.5.5–6) that the two bronze pillars within the temple, each 8 cubits high, were widely proclaimed to be the true Pillars of Heracles by many who had visited the place and had sacrificed to Heracles there. Strabo believes the account to be fraudulent, in part noting that the inscriptions on those pillars mentioned nothing about Heracles, speaking only of the expenses incurred by the Phoenicians in their making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melqart

But Strabo is a Greek "Van Gorp", lol: "We made it, not those bstrds".

[Kantzveldt]

Yes, i think that the best case that could be made for Atlantis tales having come from off the Frisian coast and from there into Egypt, is that it would be the Phoenicians who heard of such tales whilst trading in the region, they could relate to as having Pillars of Hercules/Melqaart, and that a great flooding disaster had occured there circa 1300 BC, and from there the tale travels to Egypt who relate this to the times of the sea people invasions...with the Egyptians and then Plato having little grasp that there could be any Pillars of Hercules other than the straits of Gibraltar.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Kantzveldt

[Abramelin]

Yes, i think that the best case that could be made for Atlantis tales having come from off the Frisian coast and from there into Egypt, is that it would be the Phonecians who heard of such tales whilst trading in the region, they could relate to as having Pillars of Hercules/Melqaart, and that a great flooding disaster had occured there circa 1300 BC, and from there the tale travels to Egypt who relate this to the times of the sea people invasions...with the Egyptians and then Plato having little grasp that there could be any Pillars of Hercules other than the straits of Gibraltar.

Well, 1300 BC...

It's not 1300 BC (though many floods - caused by storms and tsunamis) did occur in the North Sea area for thousands of years), it's also not 2194 BC (OLB date), but it's 6150 BC: the Storegga Slides causing a tsunami that flooded the already slowly but steadily sinking Doggerland/Dogger Island. The duration of that tsunami lasted from a couple hours to an estimated THREE days (see "Doggerland" thread in this forum).

Much earlier than all the dates above, much later than Plato's date for the submergence of his Atlantis.

[Kantzveldt]

That date seems too early though to have impacted on any extensive culture in the region, and the region would have been resettled by newer arrivals, the 'storms' of the Late bronze age still seem more likely to me as the source of any tales.

According to J. Spanuth means the Egyptian hieroglyph for "year" and "circulation". So that was obviously meant in ancient times the sidereal lunar month. If one ie 9000 months to 28 days of Solon's visit to Egypt in 571 BC. back, so you get to the second Half of the 13th century BC,

The Viennese classicist W. Brandenstein and J. Spanuth followed in 1950 as the first researcher to trace what Solon had received his knowledge of Egyptian priests in the western Nile Delta city of Sais. In fact there are still accessible documents which surprisingly exact same events as in Plato's Atlantis legend are portrayed. Above all, here are the Papyris Harris, the military deeds of the pharaoh Ramses III. glorified, and identified the inscriptions on the temple at Medinet Habu. In it, among many other matches are talking about nations that ruled over parts of Europe and Africa and Egypt severely distressed. They had come "from the islands and continents in the world ocean in the farthest north," "of the islands in the ocean" and "the ends of the earth." Your country has gone down, "destroyed its main cities" and that "their islands by the storm uprooted and blown away"

[Abramelin]

Personally I think that his assumption that some of the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt came from the North Sea area is plausible; the whole of Scandinavia and the North Sea area was inhabited by people ho lived on the sea and.the coasts.

But he can only make of them "Atlantians" if he does what everone with an Atlantis theory does: twist Plato's tales beyond recognition, like hammering a square block into a same sized circular hole. If you hit hard enough, it will eventually fit.

.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

Would anyone call wooden poles 'Pillars of Hercules'?

Sami people worshipping Horagalles or Tiermes.

His name is derived from that of the Norse god Thor.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Horagalles

In Empel there is the remains of a temple to Hercules Magusanus. This was the Romans' Latin name for the supreme god of the Batavians, Donar. Stone votives and broken weapons as symbolic offerings are at the location

http://en.wikipedia....e_Low_Countries

Donar is Thor is Horagalles - all Heracles.

Edited May 22, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Erudite Celt]

As I showed you from - I think - Hamconius' work, a long time ago, there was a group of gods and goddesses in Frisian territory, and one of them was called "Meda". But Hamconius (or one of his predecessors, Okko Scarlensis, if he even ever existed) were known to use quite a lot of imagination.

Btw, Puzz, I have tried for a couple of hours to find some depiction of this "Medea" in some old(er) book, but up to now I haven't found anything yet.

Oh, and it's a short step from "Meda" (which means 'virgin' or 'maiden' - maagd - according to Van den Bergh) to "Medea".

I believe there are 1st cent BC relief carvings of Medea in Pergamon.