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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

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Apol,

You say there are not many islands at the east coast of England, but there was a large and important one (and not an island anymore now) :

http://en.wikipedia..../Isle_of_Thanet

Thanet%20derby%207.jpg

That is in fact an interesting map - especially because you find a Herne Bay at the upper left.

Puz's comment about the Lindisfaras should incite to a study of their history - what is the criteria of an Anglian settlement, for instance. According to the OLB there were a lot of banned Frisians in Britannja, and it says that a 'tribe' named Angelara - supporting themseles on fish - came from the area between Denmark and Belgium. The Anglo-Saxons are regarded as being descended from a Germanic tribe that migrated from mainland Europe to Britain - to be sure, though, in the 5th century AD.

The Wikipedia says that the Lindisfaras established the kingom of Lindsey (Lindesege) in North Lincolnshire in the 6th century AD.

'Lindesege' means 'Linde's Island'. It is said the word Linde is derived from Proto-Brythonic *linn, which means 'pool', like also in the name Lincoln - why then 'Linde.s.ege' and not "Linns-ey"?

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Nef Teunis entered the "MIddle Sea" and then his men settled Tyre.

If that 'Middle Sea' was not the Mediterranean, what was it? The North Sea?

Also to NO-ID-EA, it also says they came across the Phoenician coast when mentioning landing at what they called Tyre, so even though it's not a bad idea, I'd ask how one could also collaborate Phoenician coast with Britain.

Unless Britain had some kind of Phoenician coast, an area they had a colony or something but, it just doesn't really work as anywhere else imo in the context it gives.

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Regarding Kälta - have you never wondered where Kälta's burgh KÄLTA.S BURCH - later renamed KÊREN.ÄK and KÊREN.HERNE was situated? The OLB says it was in BERCH.LAND, which most authors agree is in the area of Scotland, though still even Alewyn points to CARNAC in Brittany...

And not only does it say "berchland", but "northlika berchland" or northern land of mountains. Then there are the "Carnonacae" as Knul already hinted at.

Carnac in Brittany doesn't fit the picture as descirbed in the OLB, but it's what many will immediately think of when reading the name KÊREN.ÄK.

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That is in fact an interesting map - especially because you find a Herne Bay at the upper left.

Puz's comment about the Lindisfaras should incite to a study of their history - what is the criteria of an Anglian settlement, for instance. According to the OLB there were a lot of banned Frisians in Britannja, and it says that a 'tribe' named Angelara - supporting themseles on fish - came from the area between Denmark and Belgium. The Anglo-Saxons are regarded as being descended from a Germanic tribe that migrated from mainland Europe to Britain - to be sure, though, in the 5th century AD.

The Wikipedia says that the Lindisfaras established the kingom of Lindsey (Lindesege) in North Lincolnshire in the 6th century AD.

'Lindesege' means 'Linde's Island'. It is said the word Linde is derived from Proto-Brythonic *linn, which means 'pool', like also in the name Lincoln - why then 'Linde.s.ege' and not "Linns-ey"?

There are certainly strong indications Frisians (or related tribes) were present in Britain (and Ireland) even during Roman times:

http://www.unexplain...=227240&st=1095

http://oeralinda.blo...ainly-knew.html

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Nef Teunis entered the "MIddle Sea" and then his men settled Tyre.

If that 'Middle Sea' was not the Mediterranean, what was it? The North Sea?

Yes.. point taken......i was confusing Teunis and Inka as the ones that came through the Red Sea passage with Nearchus , and was thinking they could have gone East or West , but have since re-read that section, and agree remembered it wrong .

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Yes.. point taken......i was confusing Teunis and Inka as the ones that came through the Red Sea passage with Nearchus , and was thinking they could have gone East or West , but have since re-read that section, and agree remembered it wrong .

OK, it's just that I thought you had read this post:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=10515#entry4219174

(Post 10522, "Mittelsee")

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And not only does it say "berchland", but "northlika berchland" or northern land of mountains. Then there are the "Carnonacae" as Knul already hinted at.

Carnac in Brittany doesn't fit the picture as descirbed in the OLB, but it's what many will immediately think of when reading the name KÊREN.ÄK.

That's right. The word berch.land can mean two things - it may be a proper name, or it may simply mean 'mountain land' or 'mountainous land'.

And 'et norðlika Berch.land can mean two things as well - the northern part of that mountainous land (or of Berchland, if a name), or the northern lying mountain land/Berchland.

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That's right. The word berch.land can mean two things - it may be a proper name, or it may simply mean 'mountain land' or 'mountainous land'.

And 'et norðlika Berch.land can mean two things as well - the northern part of that mountainous land (or of Berchland, if a name), or the northern lying mountain land/Berchland.

And from the context that mountainous land must be Scotland.

Btw, I've translated another part of the OLB, just to compare with Sandbach's translation (and I hope you'll notice the difference):

It's about what the Romans did to the Phoenicians (and it's near the end of the MS)

OLB:

Thaet forma haevon hja tha Fphonysjar Mis-selja ofnomen, dânâ alle landa, thêr sûdward, westward aend northward lidsa, âk et sûdardêl fon Britanja, aend allerwêikes haevon hja tha Fonysjar prestera, that hêth tha Gola vrjâgeth, dânâ sind thusanda Gola nêi north Brittanja brit.

Sandbach:

First they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles—then all the countries lying to the south, the west, and the north, as well as the southern part of Britain—and they have always driven away the Phœnician priests, that is the Gauls, of whom thousands have sought refuge in North Britain.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

My Dutch translation:

Dan vooreerst hebben zij de Fonisjar Mis-selja af(ge)nomen, daarna alle landen die zuidwaards, westwaards ende noordwaarts ligden, ook 't zuiderdeel van Britanja, en allerweges ***(overal) hebben zij de Fonysjar priesters, dat heet 'de Gola', verjaagt; daarna zijn duizenden Gola na noord Brittanja (ge-)bracht.

My English translation:

Then first they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola were brought to North Britain.

*** al-l-er-weik-es 3, all-er-a weg-a elk-es*, afries., Präp.: nhd. allerwegen; ne.

everywhere; Q.: S, W; E.: s. al-l, wei (1); W.: nfries. allerweagen; L.: Hh 2b, 126a,

135a, 151a, Rh 600a

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-A.pdf

Edited by Abramelin

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That is in fact an interesting map - especially because you find a Herne Bay at the upper left.

Puz's comment about the Lindisfaras should incite to a study of their history - what is the criteria of an Anglian settlement, for instance. According to the OLB there were a lot of banned Frisians in Britannja, and it says that a 'tribe' named Angelara - supporting themseles on fish - came from the area between Denmark and Belgium. The Anglo-Saxons are regarded as being descended from a Germanic tribe that migrated from mainland Europe to Britain - to be sure, though, in the 5th century AD.

The Wikipedia says that the Lindisfaras established the kingom of Lindsey (Lindesege) in North Lincolnshire in the 6th century AD.

'Lindesege' means 'Linde's Island'. It is said the word Linde is derived from Proto-Brythonic *linn, which means 'pool', like also in the name Lincoln - why then 'Linde.s.ege' and not "Linns-ey"?

Here is a little coincidence for you Apol...........i was born in Herne Bay , and often visit my mother who still lives there .

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Correction:

I translated the final word from my quote from the OLB as "brought", but it should be "moved to" :

Look under "Brida" in the Altfriesisches Wörterbuch by Karl Otto Johannes Theresius Richthofen [Freiherr von]

One translation (in German) voor 'brit' is 'gezogen', or 'moved to' (in this case), so the correct translation will be:

Then first they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola moved to North Britain.

Correction 2 (..sigh..) :

Even better: 'spread to'.

I wondered about this 'brit' for a while, and in Dutch it would be something like ver-breidt or in English 'spread', or 'spread out to' (DU: 'verspreiden') :

Then first they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola spread out to North Britain.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Correction:

I translated the final word from my quote from the OLB as "brought", but it should be "moved to" :

Look under "Brida" in the Altfriesisches Wörterbuch by Karl Otto Johannes Theresius Richthofen [Freiherr von]

One translation (in German) voor 'brit' is 'gezogen', or 'moved to' (in this case), so the correct translation will be:

Then first they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola moved to North Britain.

Correction 2 (..sigh..) :

Even better: 'spread to'.

I wondered about this 'brit' for a while, and in Dutch it would be something like ver-breidt or in English 'spread', or 'spread out to' (DU: 'verspreiden') :

Then first they took from the Phœnicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola spread out to North Britain.

.

You could of course be right , but Brit being refuge makes sense also , it being part of the word Brittanja , and Brittanja sounds like it was a place where anyone convicted of something could take refuge , instead of being killed ......... it sound like one of the towns the jews had where you could flee to escape reprisals

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And from the context that mountainous land must be Scotland.

Btw, I've translated another part of the OLB, just to compare with Sandbach's translation (and I hope you'll notice the difference):

It's about what the Romans did to the Phoenicians (and it's near the end of the MS)

OLB:

Thaet forma haevon hja tha Fphonysjar Mis-selja ofnomen, dânâ alle landa, thêr sûdward, westward aend northward lidsa, âk et sûdardêl fon Britanja, aend allerwêikes haevon hja tha Fonysjar prestera, that hêth tha Gola vrjâgeth, dânâ sind thusanda Gola nêi north Brittanja brit.

Sandbach:

First they took from the Ph½nicians Marseilles—then all the countries lying to the south, the west, and the north, as well as the southern part of Britain—and they have always driven away the Ph½nician priests, that is the Gauls, of whom thousands have sought refuge in North Britain.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

My Dutch translation:

Dan vooreerst hebben zij de Fonisjar Mis-selja af(ge)nomen, daarna alle landen die zuidwaards, westwaards ende noordwaarts ligden, ook 't zuiderdeel van Britanja, en allerweges ***(overal) hebben zij de Fonysjar priesters, dat heet 'de Gola', verjaagt; daarna zijn duizenden Gola na noord Brittanja (ge-)bracht.

My English translation:

Then first they took from the Ph½nicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola were brought to North Britain.

*** al-l-er-weik-es 3, all-er-a weg-a elk-es*, afries., Präp.: nhd. allerwegen; ne.

everywhere; Q.: S, W; E.: s. al-l, wei (1); W.: nfries. allerweagen; L.: Hh 2b, 126a,

135a, 151a, Rh 600a

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-A.pdf

Wow! That's incredible....

Sorry! I pushed a wrong button... I meant that what is incredible, is that Puz was born in Herne Bay!

Edited by Apol

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Wow! That's incredible....

Sorry! I pushed a wrong button... I meant that what is incredible, is that Puz was born in Herne Bay!

NO-ID-EA was born in Herne Bay, I'm in Australia - but I agree, quite a co-incidence indeed!

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You could of course be right , but Brit being refuge makes sense also , it being part of the word Brittanja , and Brittanja sounds like it was a place where anyone convicted of something could take refuge , instead of being killed ......... it sound like one of the towns the jews had where you could flee to escape reprisals

It makes sense, but I prefer a translation that is as close to the original as possible. Sandbach regularly changed sentences, added stuff or completely left out pieces of sentences. He also made a lot of mistakes, but I have understood he was married with a Dutch wife who helped with the translation from Ottema's translation into English.

And there is also quite a difference between Sandbach's "always" and the correct "everywhere".

Btw, "brit" can't be the name of a town or else the sentence would be mangled.

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It makes sense, but I prefer a translation that is as close to the original as possible. Sandbach regularly changed sentences, added stuff or completely left out pieces of sentences. He also made a lot of mistakes, but I have understood he was married with a Dutch wife who helped with the translation from Ottema's translation into English.

And there is also quite a difference between Sandbach's "always" and the correct "everywhere".

Btw, "brit" can't be the name of a town or else the sentence would be mangled.

No i dont mean the actual name of a town , i mean the jews had safe towns , or refuge towns where you could escape to if the kin of someone you harmed were after you . read the other day that the name scot meant criminal.......wonder if that is where the saying "getting off scot free " comes from.....escaping the death penalty. ??

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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Have you folks seen this link "the L" s post #33 on the out of India thread ?

http://www.sci-news....ticle00403.html

now if Phrygians are Frisians ?

There are Phrygian texts online, and they do not resemble anything from the OLB language.

Phrygian appears to be close to ancient Greek.

Here:

http://books.google....le text&f=false

post-18246-0-71868700-1359150541_thumb.j

+++

EDIT:

Ok, the link is screwed - and I lost it because I was in a hurry, but here is another one:

http://titus.fkidg1....ygian/phryg.htm

Now see if what you read there resembles the language used in the OLB.

+++

EDIT:

Found a link to the same text I posted a scan of:

http://books.google.nl/books?id=bSxHgej4tKMC&pg=PA462&lpg=PA462&dq=%22whoever+does+evil+to+this+grave,+let+him+bear+the%22&source=bl&ots=v8RG0lxf3O&sig=56yZgLpAwKWrZgpgTyYc-YW1xgk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bv8CUbikKKWx0AXN8oD4Bw&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22whoever%20does%20evil%20to%20this%20grave%2C%20let%20him%20bear%20the%22&f=false

.

Edited by Abramelin

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NO-ID-EA was born in Herne Bay, I'm in Australia - but I agree, quite a co-incidence indeed!

Sorry again - I was certainly too tired last night... I'm in Manila.

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Sorry again - I was certainly too tired last night... I'm in Manila.

Christ, I just got a text message from 'someone' in Manila.

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Correction:

I translated the final word from my quote from the OLB as "brought", but it should be "moved to" :

Look under "Brida" in the Altfriesisches Wörterbuch by Karl Otto Johannes Theresius Richthofen [Freiherr von]

One translation (in German) voor 'brit' is 'gezogen', or 'moved to' (in this case), so the correct translation will be:

Then first they took from the Ph½nicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola moved to North Britain.

Correction 2 (..sigh..) :

Even better: 'spread to'.

I wondered about this 'brit' for a while, and in Dutch it would be something like ver-breidt or in English 'spread', or 'spread out to' (DU: 'verspreiden') :

Then first they took from the Ph½nicians Marseilles, then all the countries to the south, west and east. also the southern part of Britain, and everywhere they drove away the Phoenician priests, that's the Gola; after that thousands of Gola spread out to North Britain.

.

I’ve also had problems with translating the word BRÛDA. Yes, moved to and spread out to are good translations – in that particular setting. I hadn’t thought of the expression spread out to before myself – it seems to be the best. Sometimes it looks like the simple word go may be the right translation of the word – like in 156/18:

FON WAL.HALLA.GÂRA BRÛDON HJA ALINGEN ÐÊRA SÛDER HRÊNUM …

My translation:

From Walhallagâra they went along the Sûder Hrênum…

…or do you have another suggestion? But move may be the word in this passage (41/24):

NIMÐER ÐÄN NACH NÊN ÊNGÂ SA MOT MÄN HIN DÂD SÊDZA TIL ÐJU HI UT OF LANDE BRÛDE…

My translation:

Takes he thereafter no spouse, then one must declare him dead so that he moves out of the land…

Often you find the word in the combination HINNE BRÛDA, which most often seems to translate best into go away.

The combination WÊI BRÛDA is a bit more difficult. Even if go away may be the best choice also here, it will not function in this passage, though (149/32):

ÐA ÐA SÊ.LANDA WÊI BRIT WÊRON…

My translation:

When the Zealanders had departed…

The adjective WÊI.BRITNE is a very problematic word to translate into Norwegian. In English you have more choices:

VSA WÊI.BRITNE WRDON VRDELGEN (50/14)

My translation:

Our fugitives were exterminated…

ÐA TWISK.LÂNDAR ÐÄT SIND BANNANE ÄND WÊI BRITNE FRYA.SBERN. (157/5)

My translation:

The Twisklânders – that is banished and departed Freyja’s children.

Edited by Apol

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Abe suggested brida which takes you to breida, one is bride but the other is: (revoke: abolish, annul, cancel, quash, repeal)

breid-a

11, brÆd-a, afries., st. V. (3b): nhd. ziehen, zucken, widerrufen; ne. pull

(V.), jerk (V.), revoke (V.); Vw.: s. ur-; Hw.: s. breud, hÐr-breid; Hw.: vgl. an.

bregOEa, ae. bregdan, as. bregdan*, ahd. brettan*, plattd. brüden; Q.: R, B, W, E,

H; E.: germ. *bregdan, st. V., zucken, bewegen, schwingen; s. idg. *b

herý¨-,

*b

hrШ-, V., glänzen, Pokorny 141?; W.: nnordfries. brüjen; L.: Hh 12a, Rh 670a

-------------------------------------------------

Or broad maybe:

Etymology

From Middle English brood, brode, from Old English brād (“broad, flat, open, extended, spacious, wide, ample, copious”), from Proto-Germanic *braidaz (“broad”), of uncertain origin. Possibly from Proto-Indo-European *(s)prei- (“to strew, spread, sprinkle”). Cognate with Scots braid (“broad”), West Frisian breed (“broad”), Saterland Frisian breed (“broad”), Dutch breed (“broad”), German breit (“broad, wide”), Swedish bred (“broad”), Icelandic breiður (“broad, wide”).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/broad

Edited by The Puzzler

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Apol, you as a Norwegian: how is your command of the German language?

In case you didn't know, the Altfriesisches Wörterbuch by Karl Otto Johannes Theresius Richthofen [Freiherr von] offers a LOT of info about the Old Frisian language :

http://archive.org/d...chesw00richuoft

And both Puzz and I use this German site:

http://koeblergerhar...rieswbhinw.html

And click on one of the letters of the alphabet.

Btw, this is my blog about the OLB with several links in the sidebar at the right:

http://oeralinda.blogspot.nl/

And this is Otharus' blog about the OLB:

http://fryskednis.blogspot.nl/

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Apol: ÐA TWISK.LÂNDAR ÐÄT SIND BANNANE ÄND WÊI BRITNE FRYA.SBERN. (157/5)

My translation:

The Twisklânders – that is banished and departed Freyja’s children.

Noting that brieda had bruden I think variations of that word might work.

The Twisklanders - that is banished and 'abolished' children of Freya..?

----------------------------

Maybe the word Britain is actually derived from same, meaning land of the abolished people. The OLB says something like this, bit vague this morning and my internet connection is playing up so I can't open the Angelfire site to check.

Edited by The Puzzler

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ÐA ÐA SÊ.LANDA WÊI BRIT WÊRON…

My translation:

When the Zealanders had departed…

or When the Zealanders had 'taken off' - not very refined but it is a way we say that - gone away/go away/taken off/took off (breida/brita - pull, jerk or revoke) take off - take (away)

Edited by The Puzzler

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re Brit / Britne , How about escaped / escapees , and weron being therefrom or thereon, or we from

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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