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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

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I know Kalta and Crete have nothing to do with eachother, etymologically speaking, but I mentioned the OLB explanation of the name, and that it is based on yells, screams, "kreten" , because that rules out "Kalta" having anything to do with shrieking, yelling, or whatever.

And if there is any word that might explain that "her tongue was nimble; but the advice that she gave was always conveyed in mysterious terms.", then it is the Norse "skald", or poet, bard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skald

Much later this word was associated with abusive language and 'calling names'.

We should not forget that Kalta was the nickname she got because of her way of talking and her way of giving advice: nimble and mysterious.

.

Crete is like kreten/kriten - CRY out - CREte

Kalta is a form of CALL - KALta- shout, shreik, speak/talk in Dutch It doesn't rule out Kalta having anything to do with yelling or shreiking because that's what her name means as a form of call - Crete is not call, shout, shriek, its CRY.

Kreta, because of the cries

Edited by The Puzzler

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Where does the 'nimble' and 'mysterious' show up in your explanation?

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Maybe forget about the 'nimble' part:

men thi rêd thêr hju jef, was immer in thjustere worde. Thêr vmbe warth hju thrvch tha stjurar Kaelta hêten, tha landsâta mênadon that et en êrnôma wêra.

maar de raad die zij gaf, was immer in duistere woorden. Daar om werd zij door de Stjurar (sturers/stuurlui) Kaelta genoemd, de landzaten meenden dat 't een erenaam waar.

but the advice she gave was always in dark words. That's why the Stiurar (steersmen/sailors) called her Kaelta, the landlubbers thought it was a title.

So the name Kaelta or Kalta has to do with 'dark words', or 'mysterious words'.

And that's why I have to think of the Norse "skald".

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Which is why I also gave Kalta's name as could mean shriek, but call is certainly the root for her name. In Dutch kallen is to talk but in English these words would indicate calling out, shouting, scream, shriek - hence my above interpretation.

call (v.) dictionary.gif Old English ceallian "to call, shout," less common than clipian; replaced by related Old Norse kalla "to cry loudly," from Proto-Germanic *kallojanan (cf. Dutch kallen "to talk," Old High German kallon "to call"), from PIE root *gal- "to call, scream, shriek, shout" (cf. Sanskrit garhati "bewail, criticize;" Latin gallus "c ock;" Old High German klaga, German Klage "complaint, grievance, lament, accusation;" Old English clacu "affront;" Old Church Slavonic glasu "voice," glagolu "word;" Welsh galw "call"). Related: Called; calling.

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=call

Latin Gallus = c ock - related to Kaltas name also - Gauls - callers, shouters or maybe in Dutch - talkers

Could be shout etc , but i prefer call on or to , as in call for help, or pray to your god ...........The ending could also be relevant as Ta is the beginning of Taut , or maybe

just the T , as in Titan , Tiamat , Nefer Titi , Tartars , i think TaTa is also famous in India , the T stones in Gobekli Tepe , Tau cross , Taurus ,

and a bit tongue in cheek.....Temple backwards , (h)elp-me-T ......you go into the temple , and call on your god T for assistance........or just El (god)p(of)me..T. ??

If Ta is the Gods name , her calling on Ta , would make her proseltyse , which is pretty much what the Magi were doing, selling their ty god.

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Puz'z, I do now that the simplest explanation is 'speaker':

From the Old Frisian dictionary:

kal-t-ia 4, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. sprechen, sagen; ne. speak; Vw.: s. bi-, on-,

umbe-*; Hw.: s. kel-l-a; Q.: H, W, S; E.: germ. *kalt-, sw. V., rufen; s. idg. *gal-

(2), V., rufen, schreien, Pokorny 350; L.: Hh 54b, Rh 856b

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-K.pdf

But from the quote from the OLB I don't get the impression it is about mere 'speaking'. More like talking in riddles.

Or maybe someone simply tossed two words on one heap - kaltia (speak) and skald (bard, poet) .

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Puz'z, I do now that the simplest explanation is 'speaker':

From the Old Frisian dictionary:

kal-t-ia 4, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. sprechen, sagen; ne. speak; Vw.: s. bi-, on-,

umbe-*; Hw.: s. kel-l-a; Q.: H, W, S; E.: germ. *kalt-, sw. V., rufen; s. idg. *gal-

(2), V., rufen, schreien, Pokorny 350; L.: Hh 54b, Rh 856b

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-K.pdf

But from the quote from the OLB I don't get the impression it is about mere 'speaking'. More like talking in riddles.

Or maybe someone simply tossed two words on one heap - kaltia (speak) and skald (bard, poet) .

I would have translated KÄLTA into 'Jabbie', 'Chattie', 'Gabbie' or the like. I think it's not more mysterious than that.

Edited by Apol

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I think it made Kalta more of a seer like the stories of Cybele , in that unlike Minerva (nyehellenia) after

she had prophesied , probably under trance , she still spoke clearly , and everybody knew exactly what she

said .........whereas the magi would love Kalta , as the priests loved Cybele , because under trance she spoke

in riddles ,or confusedly , so the priests had to interpret , giving them the chance to put their own spin on

what she is supposed to have meant .

with Minerva the priests were redundant.

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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I would have translated KÄLTA into 'Jabbie', 'Chattie', 'Gabbie' or the like. I think it's not more mysterious than that.

but the advice she gave was always in dark words. That's why the Stiurar (steersmen/sailors) called her Kaelta.

It had nothing to do with her being a chatterbox, it had to do with her talking in mysterious ways.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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men thi rêd thêr hju jef, was immer in thjustere worde. Thêr vmbe warth hju thrvch tha stjurar Kaelta hêten

thjustere: duister, also 'not clear' -> meaningless -> non-sense -> (raas-)kallen

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The Romans adopted the name that was most commonly used for that city.

A bit like the city I was born in, 's-Gravenhage, which is most times shortened to Den Haag. And that name has been translated into every other language (The Hague, La Haye, and so on).

Another known example is Jerusalem, which is also known as Zion, and Al-Quds (=Holy City).

This is what Gadir means:

Gadir (Phoenician: גדר), the original name given to the outpost established here by the Phoenicians, means "wall, compound", or, more generally, "walled stronghold". The Punic dialect lent this word, along with many others, to the Berber languages, where it was nativised as agadir meaning "wall" in Tamazight and "fortified granary" in Shilha; it appears as a common place name in North Africa. The name of the Israeli town of Gedera has a similar etymology.

Later, the city became known by a similar Attic Greek form of the Phoenician name, τὰ Γάδειρα (Gádeira). In Ionic Greek, the name is spelled slightly differently, Γήδειρα (Gḗdeira). This spelling appears in the histories written by Herodotus. Rarely, the name is spelled ἡ Γαδείρα (Gadeíra), as, for example, in the writings of Eratosthenes (as attested by Stephanus of Byzantium).

In Latin, the city was known as gades; in Arabic, it is called قادس (Qādis). The Spanish autonym for a resident of Cadiz is gaditano.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadiz

Hello Abramelin,

I find the word "Chesed" to be an extremely close match to the word "Gades" or "Cadiz", you mentioned, but likewise the synonym word "Gedulah", does have a strong resemblance with the word "Gadeira". What do you think of the "innuendo"?

Chesed is also known as Gedulah(גדולה)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesed

Although this information is not corroborated by any credible document, it is extensively referred to (on the web), as an alternate word for "Chesed".

Sorry for entering the conversation like that, i just thought it would be interesting to know your opinion on the subject...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas

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men thi rêd thêr hju jef, was immer in thjustere worde. Thêr vmbe warth hju thrvch tha stjurar Kaelta hêten

thjustere: duister, also 'not clear' -> meaningless -> non-sense -> (raas-)kallen

The literal translation of "thjuster/duister" is abstruse, opaque, shady, dusk, dim, murky, obscure, gloomy, dark.

The literal translation of "raaskallen" is 'to rave' or 'to talk nonsense'.

Not the same.

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Hello Abramelin,

I find the word "Chesed" to be an extremely close match to the word "Gades" or "Cadiz", you mentioned, but likewise the synonym word "Gedulah", does have a strong resemblance with the word "Gadeira". What do you think of the "innuendo"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesed

Although this information is not corroborated by any credible document, it is extensively referred to (on the web), as an alternate word for "Chesed".

Sorry for entering the conversation like that, i just thought it would be interesting to know your opinion on the subject...

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Mario, of course I cannot be a 100 % sure if what I suggested is true, that The Romans called Gadir Gades instead because Kadesh was an often used alternative name for the city, meaning 'holy'. But the word 'holy' or Kadesh is used for several places in the Levant, so it seemed obvious - to me - that they would have done the same for the city of Gadir which has an important temple.

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Maybe forget about the 'nimble' part:

men thi rêd thêr hju jef, was immer in thjustere worde. Thêr vmbe warth hju thrvch tha stjurar Kaelta hêten, tha landsâta mênadon that et en êrnôma wêra.

maar de raad die zij gaf, was immer in duistere woorden. Daar om werd zij door de Stjurar (sturers/stuurlui) Kaelta genoemd, de landzaten meenden dat 't een erenaam waar.

but the advice she gave was always in dark words. That's why the Stiurar (steersmen/sailors) called her Kaelta, the landlubbers thought it was a title.

So the name Kaelta or Kalta has to do with 'dark words', or 'mysterious words'.

And that's why I have to think of the Norse "skald".

.

Thats fine but I don't see skald as having any relation to being speakers of 'dark words or mysterious words'.

The West Germanic counterpart of the skald is the scop. Not unlike the scop, which is related to Modern English scoff, the name skald is continued in English scold, reflecting the central position of mocking taunts in Germanic poetry. The word is perhaps ultimately related to Proto-Germanic *skalliz "sound, voice, shout" (OHG skal "sound"). OHG has skalsang "song of praise, psalm". skellan means "ring, clang, resound". The OHG variant stem skeltan etymologically identical to the skald- stem (Proto-Germanic *skeldan) means "to scold, blame, accuse, insult". The person doing the insulting is a skelto or skeltāri. This bears striking similarities to the Dutch verb "schelden", which means "shouting abuse" or "calling names."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skald

If anything it again might be based in CALL - sCALd. - skal-sound - the call is the sound. skalliz - kaltia - sound, voice, should (speak) call

Then shout, voice.

or to scold, blame, accuse, insult.

Nothing about dark words.

thjustere is dark, unclear, doubtful in the Frisian dictionary.

So indeed she did speak unclear words, or dark mysterious words. NO-ID-EA went over the seer thing and I agree, this is how oracles and seers spoke - unclear and mysterious.

Nyhellenias name however refers to how she spoke - new and clear.

Which is odd, as if Kalta is just the opposite - one spoke clear and one spoke unclear.

OK, so how about this - COLD as a stem not call.

coldness produces dark, misty, frosty and general mysterious landscapes. Not new and clear but dark and misty (mysterious)

cold (adj.) dictionary.gif Old English cald (Anglian), ceald (West Saxon) "cold, cool" (adj.), "coldness," from Proto-Germanic *kaldaz (cf. Old Frisian and Old Saxon kald, Old High German and German kalt, Old Norse kaldr, Gothic kalds "cold"), possibly a pp. adjective of *kal-/*kol-, from PIE root *gel-/*gol- "cold" (cf. Latin gelare "to freeze," gelu "frost," glacies "ice"). http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=cold

Edited by The Puzzler

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Just look up the function or work of a 'skald' instead of trying etymology here.

They were poets, bards, and to get an idea of those 'mysterious. dark words', read the Edda.

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The other possibility is that it refers to KLT or KLD or GLD non aspirated ,...........a big if though ... If the incomers were Phoenicians ,and were the jewish diaspora then the

tradition of them being circumcised could have got round , and led to a rumour or just a derogatory name , saying that these people have all been gelded (geld GLD )

just like horses and were now like Eunuchs

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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Just look up the function or work of a 'skald' instead of trying etymology here.

They were poets, bards, and to get an idea of those 'mysterious. dark words', read the Edda.

The function was clear in the link I gave: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skald

and dark and mysterious was not included in the job description.

Not that I don't see 'call' in skald/scald - which is probably more what their name is based in. (Proto-Germanic-sound, voice, shout)

I would have agreed that Kalta's name if meaning call also, was etymologically the same as skald - and skald's definitely were named for their speaking.

The difference is now, you pointed out enough times for me to question it, is that Kalta was named because of her DARK, UNCLEAR words.

Which is why I now consider her name could be from cold rather than call.

And makes sense her name as this description is exact opposite of Minerva, who co-incidently lived on the OPPOSITE side of the Scheldt.

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I know of the link, but I mean how they wrote/sang/talked.

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My point is, and has always been: you cannot prove anything by mere etymology alone.

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have we considered the fact that Kalta's real name was given as Syrhed , and if we think that the incomers were Syro-Phoenic , is it possible

they are telling us here that Syrhed was of Syrian /Phoenician blood , maybe that is why they could not understand her. ?? ............but then i

suppose they would also be telling us Min-erva was from Hellenia

Edited by NO-ID-EA

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have we considered the fact that Kalta's real name was given as Syrhed , and if we think that the incomers were Syro-Phoenic , is it possible

they are telling us here that Syrhed was of Syrian /Phoenician blood , maybe that is why they could not understand her. ?? ............but then i

suppose they would also be telling us Min-erva was from Hellenia

No, if you read the story, Kalta/Syrhed is not of Phoenician blood.

But yes, later on she did hook up with the Gola and Phoenicians.

And Syrhed means "Sieraad" in Dutch, or adornment, ornament in English.

+++

si-r-hê-d 4, sie-r-hê-d, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Schmuck, Kostbarkeit, Zierat,

Verzierung; ne. finery, preciostity; Hw.: vgl. mnd. sîrhêit, mnl. sierheit, mhd.

zierheit; Q.: W, S, AA 193; E.: s. *si-r, *hê-d; L.: Hh 94a, Rh 1012b, AA 193

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-S.pdf

.

Edited by Abramelin

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men thi rêd thêr hju jef, was immer in thjustere worde. Thêr vmbe warth hju thrvch tha stjurar Kaelta hêten

thjustere: duister, also 'not clear' -> meaningless -> non-sense -> (raas-)kallen

Yes, dim words - words that were not clear, to conceal her lack of clearsightedness.

----------------

I want to present for you writing on this blog my bright new website, containing my translation into Norwegian of the Oera Linda Book:

https://oeralindaboka.blogspot.com

It is certainly in Norwegian, but you may get some help from the Translator down right....

Edited by Apol

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Yes, dim words - words that were not clear, to conceal her lack of clearsightedness.

----------------

I want to present for you writing on this blog my bright new website, containing my translation into Norwegian of the Oera Linda Book:

https://oeralindaboka.blogspot.com

It is certainly in Norwegian, but you may get some help from the Translator down right...

"Raaskallen", (Van Gorp's interpretation)or 'to rave' has nothing to do with what Kalta was supposedly known for. Her words were dark, obscure, mysterious. Everytime I read that, I cannot possibly think of some raving lunatic, but of some poet creating dark and gloomy poetry. So yes, "unclear", or difficult to understand.

Maybe not the best example, but this one comes close to what I mean: "And death shall have no dominion" by Dylan Thomas.

http://www.poemhunte...ve-no-dominion/

This poem was recited during the scifi movie "Solaris" (2002), and the movie is darkness and gloom all over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miBAAdTMwOA

++

Great Apol, so now we can learn Norse using the OLB language, lol !

(Maybe you beter use a less wide banner; I have to scroll from left to right to be able read it)

.

Edited by Abramelin

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"Raaskallen", (Van Gorp's interpretation)or 'to rave' has nothing to do with what Kalta was supposedly known for. Her words were dark, obscure, mysterious. Everytime I read that, I cannot possibly think of some raving lunatic, but of some poet creating dark and gloomy poetry. So yes, "unclear", or difficult to understand.

Maybe not the best example, but this one comes close to what I mean: "And death shall have no dominion" by Dylan Thomas.

http://www.poemhunte...ve-no-dominion/

This poem was recited during the scifi movie "Solaris" (2002), and the movie is darkness and gloom all over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miBAAdTMwOA

++

Great Apol, so now we can learn Norse using the OLB language, lol !

(Maybe you beter use a less wide banner; I have to scroll from left to right to be able read it)

.

Yes, learning Norwegian is a side effect (he, he...).

Thanks for informing about the width. I've adjusted it a little bit, and hope it fits to your screen now.

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Yes, learning Norwegian is a side effect (he, he...).

Thanks for informing about the width. I've adjusted it a little bit, and hope it fits to your screen now.

I noticed I am able to understand some of it without using an online translator, lol.

About the width: it's still too wide, but now I won't have to scroll from left to right,

I only wish Knul would change his banner (and the whole layout) too: http://www.rodinbook.nl/

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Hello Apol,

Nice blog, nice images. I am reading it, just for fun, in a automated Portuguese translated version which was available.

I wonder if you could tell me where i can find information on the ship's drawing, at the beginning of your blog. I remember once having seen that image (looks to me like a cave painting from the Paleolithic)... is it? Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Mario Dantas

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