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Saru

Debunking chemtrails and chemclouds

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Debunking chemtrails and chemclouds

2.jpg

Click here to watch video - 08:10s

This video explores the chemtrails conspiracy and whether or not something sinister is going on.

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This topic annoys me...yet another thing that could or could not be true. If it is all the government has to say is, "No, it's not at all true". Then what....we move on? No, we still can't move on because the gov. has lied before. But, let's say it's not true. Now we don't believe the gov. anyway from previous lies so we continue to waste our time on this topic, like many others in the same category.

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This topic annoys me as well.

Nothing but claptrap.

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Posted (edited)

Nothing but claptrap despite the patents taken out for the process, the footage of jets spraying them, and my own eyes wittnesing them criscrossing the sky? I grew up in what used to be known as Jet city, I know what a contrail looks like and how long they last before dissapating (10-15 minutes). Chemtrails definetly exist. Exactly what they are composed of or what they are for is the question.

chemtrails-from-jet.jpgChemtrails.jpgchemtrails%20by%20aviation%20fuel.jpg

Edited by OverSword

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The creator of this video (me) has a web site: http://illuminutti.com/

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Nothing but claptrap despite the patents taken out for the process

Which patents exactly? Ones for crop-dusting, or the idea that we could change the planet's climate by 'stuff' introduced at high altitudes? neither of those are what is being claimed by 'chem'trail conspiracists. Please be specific, and then explain how this patent is evidence for the large scale spraying claimed by 'chem'trail proponents.

the footage of jets spraying them

Please explain the difference between a chemtrail and contrail and how you identified these trails as NOT contrails.

and my own eyes wittnesing them criscrossing the sky?

And what the heck else should they do, as multiple passenger jets at contrail levels travel the same paths, and the upper level winds displace the trails sideways between flights?

I grew up in what used to be known as Jet city, I know what a contrail looks like

Please explain the difference between a contrail and chemtrail, with CITED illustrations.

and how long they last before dissapating (10-15 minutes).

Oh, NO. Please tell me you didn't say that... Listen carefully...

At altitudes of (usually) over 25,000feet, the conditions are OFTEN conducive to contrails. (And CLOUDS, because that essentially is what a contrail is). As a jet passes through the upper atmosphere, introducing LOTS of water vapour (and a small amount of combustion residue) one of three things WILL happen:

1. It will leave NO, or very short trails. (that will happen when the conditions are not right, ie the humidity, dewpoint, pressure and temperature are NOT causing 'saturation')

2. It will leave trails that very gradually dissipate (ie the conditions are near saturation)

3. It will leave trails that last for long periods, or that grow into banks of cirrus clouds (if the conditions are at or over saturation or 'supersaturated')

Feel free to dispute any of that with logic, but it is correct. Not only that, but it is the exact same process that causes cirrus clouds - the only difference being that 'normal' cirrus clouds develop without the need for introduction of vapour via a jet exhaust.

If anyone states that contrails always dissipate, they are effectively saying that clouds CANNOT exist - because clouds form using the exact same process as a contrail, and they develop into cloud banks in exactly the same way that contrails can cause.

This is REALLY basic meteorology..

Chemtrails definetly exist. Exactly what they are composed of or what they are for is the question.

At ground level for crop-dusting, and at cloud levels for rain seeding, yes, they occasionally do. But if you claim there is a large scale clandestine chemtrail program underway, answer me this: WHY has no-one ever been able document a trail existing where weather conditions would make it impossible?

It's easy to positively identify aircraft over US airspace using Flightaware and similar. From that you can also get their altitude, verifiable by simple checks against flight paths and normal flight trajectories. And then you can use one of the high level weather recording services, like the excellent one provided by the University of Wyoming.

So with an ordinary camcorder and a bit of evidence of where you are and when you are filming, you could prove a contrail is something else. Yet no-one has. Not even the poster boys for chemtrails, Carnicom and Thomas (who still haven't told anyone what happened to the $6K they collected for upper air sampling that never went ahead..). It's a topic for charlatans preying on the ill-informed.

The trails are CONtrails. Provably so. You claim chemtrails? Collect the simple data to prove it. You will be disappointed to find that your trail-leaving flights are in conditions that are just right for contrails.

They look like a duck, they waddle like a duck, they quack like a duck, and they are in duck country. So they are.. ?

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Agreed Chrlzs. I thought we had debated this one to death not so long ago. :)

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Posted (edited)

Agreed Chrlzs. I thought we had debated this one to death not so long ago. :)

There's always a new 'believer' wanting to support it.. Any conspiracy will do, it seems, no matter how ridiculous..

Thing is, the way the chemtrail believers keep rolling out that absolutely ridiculous claim about 'real' contrails dissipating after 10-15 minutes... you have to wonder whether it is just a troll, or perhaps it is either Carnicom or Thomas themselves, who started that particular idiocy.

As I said above, if you believe all genuine contrails will dissipate quickly, then clouds must do the same - ergo, there must never be clouds that last more than 15 minutes. Funny, but that just doesn't seem to be in line with my experience.. {Puts on tinfoil hat}

But wait, that can only mean one thing!! ALL clouds must be chemtrails!!! Run away!!!!!!

Edited by Chrlzs

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google wheather modification- there is a REAL company online that even has pics of the planes & the airisole cartridges they use- all you need do is look up in the sky- I see chemtrails DAILY, they are the ones that spread out wide to eventually look like clouds- they start & stop which a "contrail" doesn't do. Something IS going on. You can see the spray comming from the wings in a 2 to four line white trail. I'll post some of my pics N u decide for yourself. I've been watching the sky for almost a half a century- the clouds look different lately- VERY different, with dripping things, odd rainbow toxic looking glows, & not like they have my whole lifetime...

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google wheather modification- there is a REAL company online that even has pics of the planes & the airisole cartridges they use- all you need do is look up in the sky- I see chemtrails DAILY, they are the ones that spread out wide to eventually look like clouds- they start & stop which a "contrail" doesn't do. Something IS going on. You can see the spray comming from the wings in a 2 to four line white trail. I'll post some of my pics N u decide for yourself. I've been watching the sky for almost a half a century- the clouds look different lately- VERY different, with dripping things, odd rainbow toxic looking glows, & not like they have my whole lifetime...

Did you read any of the thread? Before posting your pictures of CONTRAILS I suggest you do, and apply a little credulity.

I repeat: ANYONE who thinks that contrails do not spread, is telling us that they do not accept that CLOUDS grow either - please THINK about what you are claiming. CONTRAILS ARE THE SAME COMPOSITION AS CLOUDS - they dissipate or grow in exactly the same way clouds do.. according to the current conditions at that altitude.

As an aside, have other forummers noticed that people who read about contrails (or planet x, or insert other conspiracy) suddenly start looking up and seeing things they should have noticed long ago, had they actually been interested in their environment?

Hands up those who haven't seen sundogs or rain-induced refractions in clouds ('rainbow-looking glows' - non-toxic)?

halo.jpgfirerainbow.jpgImages from bad astronomy blog, discover magazine

'Dripping' clouds?

800px-Mammatus_clouds_and_crepuscular_rays_new.jpg

Image from Wikipedia

Are those anything to do with supposed 'chemtrails'?

Anyway, for those with their hands up, you need to get out more... and while out, actually OBSERVE. And if you are interested in clouds and contrails, actually RESEARCH the topic. Preferably first...

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I saw these contrails in southern France, in the 70's of the past century.

Sometimes they did indeed stay visible for almost a day.

But who am I, eh? I must be working for the government of course.

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I actually OBSERVE way more than most people, answer this if you can, how come the dripping clouds have only been around RECENTLY? same goes for the toxic looking rainbow colored clouds that are not rainbows??? I have had to travel for the last 25 years daily 150 - 300 miles a DAY! So, I am speaking from what I've viewed DAILY driving most of the day in the daylight hours. If YOU did a little more research you would find out more yourself. No website can replace what I've seen with my OWN eyes over the years-

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I actually OBSERVE way more than most people, answer this if you can, how come the dripping clouds have only been around RECENTLY? same goes for the toxic looking rainbow colored clouds that are not rainbows??? I have had to travel for the last 25 years daily 150 - 300 miles a DAY! So, I am speaking from what I've viewed DAILY driving most of the day in the daylight hours. If YOU did a little more research you would find out more yourself. No website can replace what I've seen with my OWN eyes over the years-

I have been here for 6 years and I know more information than you and other members.

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Posted (edited)

I actually OBSERVE way more than most people, answer this if you can, how come the dripping clouds have only been around RECENTLY? same goes for the toxic looking rainbow colored clouds that are not rainbows??? I have had to travel for the last 25 years daily 150 - 300 miles a DAY! So, I am speaking from what I've viewed DAILY driving most of the day in the daylight hours. If YOU did a little more research you would find out more yourself. No website can replace what I've seen with my OWN eyes over the years-

By 'Dripping' clouds one can only assume you mean those known as 'jellyfish' clouds (for obvious reasons) and they have been around as long as there has been an atmosphere on this planet!

Check out the following link. http://cloudapprecia...s=jellyfish&g=1

As for rainbow coloured clouds that are not rainbows, I have photographed plenty and they can be seen at the following link. http://lightningandnature.weebly.com/clouds.html

Known as iridescent clouds.

What you have seen with your own eyes are perfectly natural cloud formations (and contrails). And IF YOU had done a little more research you would have found all this out.

If for any reason these are not the cloud types you are referring to, please give photographic examples, or a link where one can find them.

edit......typo.

second edt....correction to link

edit to add....another link to iridescence with over 200 photogrpahs > http://cloudappreciationsociety.org/find-a-cloud/#p=1&t=cloud124&i=0

Edited by Englishgent
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25 years trumps 6 years

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Posted (edited)

Funny - I didn't think this was a game of cards? I guess I'm a bit strange, but i don't put much weight on unsupported anecdotes..

I actually OBSERVE way more than most people

Yes, of course you do. We will, naturally, just take your word for it, as a superior mortal. It's not (oh no..) that you suddenly became such a good observer *after* you saw your first chemtrail conspiracy site..

Me, just because I used to manage a marine research centre (that included a met station).. well that means nuthin' - I am in your view a very poor observer and couldn't possibly match your expertise, and who could argue with that? And who would care what meteorological reports say, or the fact that you haven't shown us (yet) your huge gallery of dripping cloud photos, or your documentation of your observations. Do feel free, though. Also, post some links to all the web reports that back up your obs - I mean, surely it's not just you noticing...

answer this if you can, how come the dripping clouds have only been around RECENTLY?

Well, how can I put this delicately...? The fact (if it is one) that you have only noticed these as yet unknown 'dripping cloud' thingies recently could be for any reason including .. local weather or climate. But more likely it's because you have been reading conspiracy websites, and your brain has fixed up all your memories to match what you wish to believe. Brains are very, very good at that.

Did you know that the first thing a good observer learns, is just how incredibly flawed and unreliable human perceptions are, and how memories are fluid, surreal and changeable? That's why documentation and proof is so important. Anyway, I keep forgetting I am talking to an excellent observer, so you would know all that. Sorry.

Anyway, as you would also know - contrails most often form at high altitudes, and even when they do grow into cirrus cloud banks, they very rarely show high level precipitation effects (I'm presuming that's what 'dripping' means..). If you have lots of 'dripping clouds' (a picture would help, as that name isn't a standard met term...), perhaps it is just your weather. But weather :) it is or not, your say so isn't worth anything without evidence. Photos, dates, times, met obs..?

I'm happy to provide lots of well-documented information about contrail formation, how much it has increased over the years due to increased air-traffic (and also engine design..), how to tell what the weather is doing at high altitude, etc, etc, but that is the mainstream view. I'm not making the wild claims, so the burden of proof is not mine.

Oh, and do feel free to link these clouds with aircraft - you MUST have photos of low level trails to back this up. Surely?

same goes for the toxic looking rainbow colored clouds that are not rainbows???

Gee, I find rainbow colours PRETTY, not toxic. Guess it depends on your outlook on life. What, specifically, makes them 'toxic looking'? Again, pictures, locations, directions?

I have had to travel for the last 25 years daily 150 - 300 miles a DAY!

Golly! Let's have a competition - I don't travel that far daily (only 'bout 70 total per day) but I regularly travel a route of about 2300 km (that's ~1400 miles) about 4 times each year (there and back, so multiply that by two) - and in a rather busy 2 year period about 3 years back, I did that trip 22 times. Each trip (from western South Australia to Brisbane, Queensland) was driven by me, alone, over a period of between 2.5 and 4 days each time, and I had nothing to do except drive, eat, sleep, and enjoy the environment. I take lots of pictures, btw.. including a few of contrails, mostly out over desert areas.. I'll dig them out and post some of them if you like..

So, I am speaking from what I've viewed DAILY driving most of the day in the daylight hours.

I'm as impressed by that as you no doubt are with my anecdote...

If YOU did a little more research you would find out more yourself.

Thing is, I have. As you would realise if you researched - try Googling 'contrails CHRLZ'... Yep, that's me at all them other forums too..

No website can replace what I've seen with my OWN eyes over the years-

And no unsupported claims on a website are worth anything much to anyone else.

It's a tough old world.

Anyway, let's see all the evidence! Or is it to be just more words?

Edited by Chrlzs
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A belief in chemtrails is totally baed in ignorance and misunderstanding of the world around us - after ready years of these chemtrail debates arond here, there's really no other explanation.

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Here's another typical day in Brisbane, Australia.

gallery_95887_13_49690.jpg

As we have very few high altitude flight paths overhead in this region, contrails are quite rare even on a perfect day for them like this one.. Happy to post *many* more examples, but I don't want to needlessly clutter the thread. It's 'chemtrails', contrails and 'dripping clouds' we want to see...

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Can remember seeing the skies criss-crossed often as a child. In fact.. we asked our teacher what they were and he said jets. What kind of jets we asked. I don't know said he, but I believe they are from the RAF or USAF. Why don't you write them and ask. So we did, as a class.

We got a reason, "training exercises" and also awesome posters of jets, pens, pencils and badges from both.

Those were the days!

:)

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Can remember seeing the skies criss-crossed often as a child. In fact.. we asked our teacher what they were and he said jets. What kind of jets we asked. I don't know said he, but I believe they are from the RAF or USAF. Why don't you write them and ask. So we did, as a class.

We got a reason, "training exercises" and also awesome posters of jets, pens, pencils and badges from both.

Those were the days!

:)

I remember those days too! So, did you succumb to the propaganda and become a pilot? :D I would have killed to become an RAAF pilot, but alas, I have slight colorblindness and they wouldn't take me - damn you, DNA! I could have been flying F-111's:

big_thumb_aircrafts_f-111_aardvark_desktop_wallpaper-367301.jpg..an F-111 doing its party trick - afterburner 'dump and burn'

I try not to think about it..{sob}

BTW - note the wingtip trails, with a slight rainbow tinge...

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Posted (edited)

Below is a pic of dripping clouds :)

post-121346-0-89142800-1338259156_thumb.

Edited by Englishgent

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Below is a pic of toxic looking rainbow clouds that are not rainbows :)

post-121346-0-40716400-1338259320_thumb.

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Posted (edited)

25 years trumps 6 years

In this case: quality trumps quantity.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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In this case: quality trumps quantity.

In my experience it does every time. :tu:

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Chemtrails debunked? FINALLY!!!!... :tu:

Edited by M0TH

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