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Birther Mania and Why it's a Waste of Time

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OK everyone who's interested in the constitutionality of Obama's presidency, here's a point to ponder. Let's say that sometime this Summer IRREFUTABLE proof were offered that he was in fact born in Kenya to a Kenyan father. What do you think would happen to his campaign? Would it dissolve and smokin' Joe just step up to the number one spot? Or would Obama doggedly hang on and try every tortured legal recourse he could to continue in the election? Remember now, for the purposes of my little fantasy presentation..not even MSNBC could call the evidence into question. I think it would be a street brawl with more lawyers than flies at a picnic..... What do YOU think? :w00t:

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If there were irrefutable proof, then Obama wouldn't have a legal argument because he would be constitutionally inelligible for the presidency... but I agree that wouldn't stop him or his supporters from trying to legally change that in every way possible.

I could see the argument made that "any former president who wasn't Native American would have had no right to hold office and that set the precedent that it is constitutional."

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He would be impeached. There would be riots and deaths. The truth is already the first victim - regardless of which belief you hold in this matter, it was buried under a thousand tonnes of dirt and muck a long time ago, never to be found again.

There will always be "proof" that there was a conspiracy to destroy his presidency and the democrats by inventing evidence of his birth in Kenya just like there is always "proof" that he is indeed an American Citizen. You are absolutely right and then, the whole excercise is futile and yet has the very real capacity to tear a country to shreds with racial and political tensions simmering just below boiling point as it is.

The whole "birther" issue is irrational on many levels today.

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If there were irrefutable proof, then Obama wouldn't have a legal argument because he would be constitutionally inelligible for the presidency... but I agree that wouldn't stop him or his supporters from trying to legally change that in every way possible.

I could see the argument made that "any former president who wasn't Native American would have had no right to hold office and that set the precedent that it is constitutional."

I can't remember any prezz who was Native American, just those who were natural born citizens.

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I can't remember any prezz who was Native American, just those who were natural born citizens.

There definitely weren't any full-bloods, I don't think there were any who were part Native American but I cannot say for certain. I think that's why the argument would potentially happen, because they'd be trying to suggest that even though all prior presidents were born here their family line has immigration somewhere.

I wouldn't agree with it, but I have heard lawyers come up with more far-fetched arguments... and still win cases :(

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Posted (edited)

OK everyone who's interested in the constitutionality of Obama's presidency, here's a point to ponder. Let's say that sometime this Summer IRREFUTABLE proof were offered that he was in fact born in Kenya to a Kenyan father. What do you think would happen to his campaign? Would it dissolve and smokin' Joe just step up to the number one spot? Or would Obama doggedly hang on and try every tortured legal recourse he could to continue in the election? Remember now, for the purposes of my little fantasy presentation..not even MSNBC could call the evidence into question. I think it would be a street brawl with more lawyers than flies at a picnic..... What do YOU think? :w00t:

It would be over and end in impeachment, Biden would be prezz until January and Hillary would run and win for lack of a convincing Republican alternative.

Edited by questionmark

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I have always been interested in this topic. Not so much as a way to remove Obama, but the concept behind it. And how even the President could not understand the importance of it. I.e. the difference between the short form and the long form and how rampant BC fraud is. I am satisfied with the long form that he finally presented but I said from the beginning that what is needed is an independent commission to go to the actual archive with camera rolling and perform a complete forensic examination. Now, there are some questions that have arisen with the long form and they should try to answer them. I can see legitimate answers but those answers should be stated.

I always knew he was lying about his BC or his college records or both. And his character made all of that dubious. I’m convinced now that he was born in Hawaii so that leaves that he lied about being from Kenya so that he could get a Fulbright scholarship. Is this really an issue we need to worry about? If he was a bald-face liar, but was able to create jobs, then I could care less about his lying. But that’s not the case nor will it ever be and that’s the issue.

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Ahh but the issue is so wrapped up in his personality now that it would probably lead to violence to get rid of him. For my part I'd love to see some national standard set in place up front so that these kinds of questions never can become an issue again.

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I haven't seen a more secretive president in my 50+ years. No school records, nor legit BC, no friends who knew him, composite girlfriends., Very odd and bizarre record that breeds suspicion. How Pelosi certified him is another mystery and after the debacle of the 2010 elections it may explain how she maintained her leadership of teh Dem house. What dirt does that old battleaxe have on Obama that she survived one ogf teh greatest losses in US history?

Obama is dirty and of that only a fool or zealot could argue not but getting him on the BC thing at this late date would be counterproductive. His abysmal performance as president has pretty much doomed his reelection and that is the best way to rid the nation of this incompetent fool and his thugocracy staff. We can dig up the dirt and expose Pelosi and her ilk after he is safely back in Chicago as a private citizen.

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It would be an absolute mess is what it would be. it would make Florida 2000 look like a Sunday school class.

It would be fought in the courts. As for impeachment, well, I'm pretty sure it would pass the House quite easily. As for the Senate, that would be really interesting. Would Reid lock it down to protect him or would they sacrifice him for the hope of a Clinton win in November?

Definitely popcorn eating entertianment.

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My whole thing is this. First He has proved he was born in the US and that makes him a US citizen. But even if he wasn't what difference does it make? What changes? Nothing. He is still the same president. I voted for him but he is a mediocer president at best. He is not out to rule the world. What this whole thing boils down to is the color of his skin. I can't remember any other president that is as disrepected as this one is. Even Bush jr was treated better overall. Let's all remember this countries first presidents were not "natural born citizens" yet no one questions whether they should have been president.

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My whole thing is this. First He has proved he was born in the US and that makes him a US citizen.

Technically, he hasn’t proved it, in the sense that no forensic examination of the record has been made, but his Bona fides is acceptable.

But even if he wasn't what difference does it make? What changes? Nothing. He is still the same president. I voted for him but he is a mediocer president at best. He is not out to rule the world.

It would make a big difference. It would also make a big mess that we really don’t need to deal with at this point in time. It would be best to wait until next January when he is out of office to pursue any legal recourse. If he wasn’t born here, this wouldn’t end with him out of office. This President was elected because those that elected him thought that he would walk on water. Well, they got hoodwinked and bamboozled.

What this whole thing boils down to is the color of his skin.

The one thing more time wasting than the BC, is the “it’s about the color of his skin”. No, it is not about the color of his skin. It is about his socialist politics. It’s been said that it’s his Black Muslim half that is likeable; it’s just his White European Socialist side that can’t be trusted. But I’ve always told people that I voted against him, not because of the color of his skin but because of the content of his character.

I can't remember any other president that is as disrepected as this one is. Even Bush jr was treated better overall.

You’re just like that teacher that blew up because a student dared asked a question about Obama bullying someone. Where were you during Bush’s 8 years with all that negative scripting and Bush bashing? Let’s not forget the movie about assassinating Bush. I thought that the crap that Clinton got was uncalled for but the stuff said about Bush was unconscionable. Obama is getting off light.

Let's all remember this countries first presidents were not "natural born citizens" yet no one questions whether they should have been president.

The Constitution covers that.

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who cares?

i think this birther crap has more to do with the color of this man's skin than where he was born. my gawd if bush jr can be president i think anyone should be allowed.

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I don't question whether the first presidents should have been presidents or not based on thir natural born citizenship- They worded the constitution so they were covered.

What do I think would happen if sure proof showed up that Obama is indeed not a natural born citizen? A serious hot mess. I don't really think Obama would get impeached though- suspended yes, but with the way our government runs, I kind of doubt they could get their crap together to pull off an impeachment within 6 months. It would take them at least that long to form an impeachment committee and start looking at "evidence and reports" hahahah.

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Ahh but the issue is so wrapped up in his personality now that it would probably lead to violence to get rid of him. For my part I'd love to see some national standard set in place up front so that these kinds of questions never can become an issue again.

I would agree. They need to do a half hour program ala “Who do you think you are?” Like what I’ve said, go to the archive and do a televised forensic examination. It would be educational and historic.

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who cares?

i think this birther crap has more to do with the color of this man's skin than where he was born. my gawd if bush jr can be president i think anyone should be allowed.

Good point.

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Posted (edited)

OK everyone who's interested in the constitutionality of Obama's presidency, here's a point to ponder. Let's say that sometime this Summer IRREFUTABLE proof were offered that he was in fact born in Kenya to a Kenyan father. What do you think would happen to his campaign? Would it dissolve and smokin' Joe just step up to the number one spot? Or would Obama doggedly hang on and try every tortured legal recourse he could to continue in the election? Remember now, for the purposes of my little fantasy presentation..not even MSNBC could call the evidence into question. I think it would be a street brawl with more lawyers than flies at a picnic..... What do YOU think? :w00t:

Here's a curveball for you.

John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone - not a US Territory. An amendment to the citizenship laws was passed to make those born of US parents in the Canal Zone 'natural' US Citizens - but it was not passed until after McCain was born and did not come into effect retroactively. This makes McCain a non-natural US Citizen.

However, the US Senate recognised his right to run for the Presidency. They declared him a natural born citizen - even though he wasn't by law. They intepreted the amendment to the citizenship law as "retroactive in spirit".

Just as the US Senate recognised Obama's right to run for the Presidency.

So, it's not necessarily down to what is written in your Constitution.

Edited by Leonardo

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who cares?

Constitutionalists care. And every American should be a Constitutionalist.

i think this birther crap has more to do with the color of this man's skin than where he was born.

I can’t believe that there are still people who think this is about his color. People will espouse all sorts of excuses so that they don’t have to face the fact that this guy is a die-hard socialist. A Saul Alinski acolyte.

my gawd if bush jr can be president i think anyone should be allowed.

I hate to say it, but I do miss Bush. At least Bush had some experience. Obama was a community organizer hack and that made him think that gave him the needed experience. If Bush was a strong President and could have kept a collar on the likes of Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, etc. we wouldn’t be in the situation that we find ourselves in today. So I can’t say that I’d want to return to Bush, but oh how I do miss him.

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Here's a curveball for you.

John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone - not a US Territory. An amendment to the citizenship laws was passed to make those born of US parents in the Canal Zone 'natural' US Citizen - but was not passed until after McCain was born and did not come into effect retroactively. This makes McCain a non-natural US Citizen.

However, the US Senate recognised his right to run for the Presidency. This got around his 'non-natural' status.

Just as the US Senate recognised Obama's right to run for the Presidency.

So, it's not necessarily down to what is written in your Constitution.

There is no curveball. McCain was a unique situation that hadn’t been considered. That is far different than having been born in different country. And that the Senate recognized Obama’s right just means that they as well as most people didn’t understand the difference between the short form and the long form and how rampant BC fraud was. I bet you that you didn’t even know there was a difference and that you couldn’t tell me what the differences are and why they are important?

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There is no curveball. McCain was a unique situation that hadn't been considered. That is far different than having been born in different country. And that the Senate recognized Obama's right just means that they as well as most people didn't understand the difference between the short form and the long form and how rampant BC fraud was. I bet you that you didn't even know there was a difference and that you couldn't tell me what the differences are and why they are important?

What part of "The US Senate can decide whether a person is a natural-born citizen - despite the law saying otherwise", did you miss?

It doesn't have to be decided on what the Constitution says. The Senate can decide - and has.

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Technically, he hasn’t proved it, in the sense that no forensic examination of the record has been made, but his Bona fides is acceptable.

It would make a big difference. It would also make a big mess that we really don’t need to deal with at this point in time. It would be best to wait until next January when he is out of office to pursue any legal recourse. If he wasn’t born here, this wouldn’t end with him out of office. This President was elected because those that elected him thought that he would walk on water. Well, they got hoodwinked and bamboozled.

The one thing more time wasting than the BC, is the “it’s about the color of his skin”. No, it is not about the color of his skin. It is about his socialist politics. It’s been said that it’s his Black Muslim half that is likeable; it’s just his White European Socialist side that can’t be trusted. But I’ve always told people that I voted against him, not because of the color of his skin but because of the content of his character.

You’re just like that teacher that blew up because a student dared asked a question about Obama bullying someone. Where were you during Bush’s 8 years with all that negative scripting and Bush bashing? Let’s not forget the movie about assassinating Bush. I thought that the crap that Clinton got was uncalled for but the stuff said about Bush was unconscionable. Obama is getting off light.

The Constitution covers that.

Um excuse me but no ?I am not like the teacher you mentioned. I don't ever remember any other president getting off a plane walking up to a state governor with hand out to shake hands only to have a finger waved in his face and who knows what said all in front of media camera's. I dont ever remember anyone yelling out you lie! at another president by a sitting member of congress during a congressional speech.

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Um excuse me but no ?I am not like the teacher you mentioned. I don't ever remember any other president getting off a plane walking up to a state governor with hand out to shake hands only to have a finger waved in his face and who knows what said all in front of media camera's. I dont ever remember anyone yelling out you lie! at another president by a sitting member of congress during a congressional speech.

Basically Obama brings the disrespect on himself because of his arrogance in dealing with others. It's like he thinks of himself as a rockstar when he's closer to actually being a roadie......

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Posted (edited)

who cares?

i think this birther crap has more to do with the color of this man's skin than where he was born. my gawd if bush jr can be president i think anyone should be allowed.

Says the representative of the country that has never elected anyone but lilly white Prime Ministers.

Just kidding.

But I do find all of the claims of racism to be pretty funny given how many black/African American leaders have been elected in the Western World.

Edited by Rafterman

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What part of "The US Senate can decide whether a person is a natural-born citizen - despite the law saying otherwise", did you miss?

It doesn't have to be decided on what the Constitution says. The Senate can decide - and has.

OMG – Squared! Are you serious? Congress does not have the power to change the Constitution. They can propose changes and then those changes must be ratified by a 3/4th majority of the States (Article V). Now McCain presented an unexpected situation that required interpretation, not change.

Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

“No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

Congress cannot change that. And no President has any right to ignore it. This clearly states that someone not born here cannot be President. But the Panama Canal Zone was US territory as much as any US embassy in any country is.

BTW, I’m not refuting the Senate’s decision. But I point out that the information they had was incomplete. Just because they made the “right” decision doesn’t mean that they came to it logically. Perhaps by dumb luck.

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OMG – Squared! Are you serious? Congress does not have the power to change the Constitution. They can propose changes and then those changes must be ratified by a 3/4th majority of the States (Article V). Now McCain presented an unexpected situation that required interpretation, not change.

Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Congress cannot change that. And no President has any right to ignore it. This clearly states that someone not born here cannot be President. But the Panama Canal Zone was US territory as much as any US embassy in any country is.

BTW, I'm not refuting the Senate's decision. But I point out that the information they had was incomplete. Just because they made the "right" decision doesn't mean that they came to it logically. Perhaps by dumb luck.

And the ones to decide whether somebody is natural born or not is the courts and the Senate, both have affirmed that. So I wonder why some keep on the old record. Which lately becomes much more interesting than the issue itself.

And don't come with: because both the judges and senators are idiots or a similar BS phrase. If that were the case the country is in a much worse state than any birther can imagine.

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