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Babe Ruth

Phoenix Lights & Fife Symington

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In 1997 the greater Phoenix metro area witnessed and filmed a slow fly by made by a huge UFO. Many thousands saw it and filmed it, including all major local media.

Soon the government downplayed it, somehow suggesting that it didn't really happen.

Governor Symington, former USAF pilot, downplayed it and suggested it was some sort of prank.

Years later Symington admits that he actually saw the craft with his own eyes, but took the postion that he did because he did not want to alarm the public, even though so many of the public saw it with their own eyes.

Did Governor Symington's actions show a conspiracy between him and others in government to keep the public uninformed? Or were they simply admitting their inability to explain what it was?

Does this government effort to keep the public uninformed about an obvious event represent a pattern of behavior by government officials?

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Here is a Youtube video of the Phoenx Lights:

UFO - Phoenix Lights, March 13, 1997.

Uploaded by BrutalV on 11 Apr 2008

The number of lights in the boomerang seemed to vary along the path of the object from 5 to 7 according to the witnesses. Some of the witnesses described this formation or object as huge, even up to 1 mile in span. It traveled, according to all witnesses, on a trajectory from Northwest to Southeast. It traveled at slow velocity along most of its course with one exception where it seemed to accelerate quickly. Its altitude was estimated to be below 5,000 feet. We know this is simply an estimate as it is difficult to determine the altitude of a flying object in the night sky. The witnesses agreed they could hear no sound emanating from the boomerang.

In March 2007, former Arizona Governor Fife Symington III said that he had witnessed one of the "crafts of unknown origin" during the 1997 event, but noted that he didn't go public with the information.Shortly after the lights, Symington held a press conference, stating that "they found who was responsible". However, he quickly changed his mind. In an interview with The Daily Courier in Prescott, Symington said:

'I'm a pilot and I know just about every machine that flies. It was bigger than anything that I've ever seen. It remains a great mystery. Other people saw it, responsible people. I don't know why people would ridicule it.'

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Thanks for that Karlis.

I somewhat feel sorry for Fife. At least he had the courage to admit his wrongdoing and lies. I've seen his apology and find it sincere. Thanks for video tape. :yes:

The whole thing reflects the bizarre mentality of government. First, deny and deceive. That is their fist step at mind control.

In terms of denial, the behavior was kinda like a lynch mob or pack behavior, whichever one likes.

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I would love to believe that he was telling the truth and that he actually had witnessed something incredible.

There is one other option however that we need to consider and that is that his tactless publicity stunt with the 'alien' was a a dismal failure and to excuse the pun 'alienated' a large number of people who had witnessed this event and were desperately seeking answers.

What better way to make amends and build an empathy bridge with the Arizona folk than to claim that too shared their experience?

I would like to think I am wrong on this, but it just seems like a coincidence that he happened to be present when it flew by a second time after he had publicly discredited the phenomena.

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He is to be commended for 'coming clean' on the subject. Better late than never.

But his behavior in 1997 clearly illustrates how government, and the persons who make up government, quickly default to deception when informing the public.

I remember reading about it in 1997, but never realized until just now how huge the object was, and how slowly it passed by.

And I think the NatGeo piece on it claimed that radar data recorded the object.

Even the debunkers cannot make this one go away.

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Even the debunkers cannot make this one go away.

You mean the absolute fact that the lights were flares dropped by a flight of A-10 Warthog aircraft being operated by the Maryland National Guard and how this is backed up by the photographic and video evidence from that night?

Here's Brian Dunning's take: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4041 - including the good Governor's pathetic attempt to grab a little more 15 minutes.

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You mean the absolute fact that the lights were flares dropped by a flight of A-10 Warthog aircraft being operated by the Maryland National Guard and how this is backed up by the photographic and video evidence from that night?

Here's Brian Dunning's take: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4041 - including the good Governor's pathetic attempt to grab a little more 15 minutes.

I think that the earlier sighting (8 PM) is the one the governor is talking about. The flares were the later event (10 PM). However Mitch Stanley stated that he saw planes for the earlier event using a Dobsonian telescope. I would think that a sighting using a telescope would have more weight than a naked eye observation but maybe that's just me. ^_^

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I think that the earlier sighting (8 PM) is the one the governor is talking about. The flares were the later event (10 PM). However Mitch Stanley stated that he saw planes for the earlier event using a Dobsonian telescope. I would think that a sighting using a telescope would have more weight than a naked eye observation but maybe that's just me. ^_^

Indeed.

You've nailed it here S2F. :tu:

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Posted (edited)

In 1997 the greater Phoenix metro area witnessed and filmed a slow fly by made by a huge UFO. Many thousands saw it and filmed it, including all major local media.

Soon the government downplayed it, somehow suggesting that it didn't really happen.

Governor Symington, former USAF pilot, downplayed it and suggested it was some sort of prank.

Years later Symington admits that he actually saw the craft with his own eyes, but took the postion that he did because he did not want to alarm the public, even though so many of the public saw it with their own eyes.

Did Governor Symington's actions show a conspiracy between him and others in government to keep the public uninformed? Or were they simply admitting their inability to explain what it was?

Does this government effort to keep the public uninformed about an obvious event represent a pattern of behavior by government officials?

I will give Symington credit for having balls and coming forward about what he saw. He actually saw the craft himself and said it was 3 to 4 thousand feet wide. That being said, Symington is just a tool and doesn't know anything. I'm quite confident he called George HW Bush and other military officials and they probably blew him off. He gets p***ed & now he's coming forward or came forward. I seriously doubts he knows anything other than what he actually saw.

The most visiable public figures today in government that know about UFOs are George HW Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. All of them worked at the CIA and Bush is reported to have told Ronald Reagan when Reagan asked him about what he knew about UFO's, Bush supposedly said "He couldn't confirm or deny it, it was classified".

I think he may have eventually told Reagan about what he knew because Reagan was busting at the seams to tell the public. He was always telling people privately that ETs were real. Odd that he developed Alzheimers disease that wipes the memory out isnt it?

I don't believe all this lizard conspiracy bull but I do believe George HW Bush knows quite a bit about UFOs and contact with them.

Edited by Darth Tyranus

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Posted (edited)

What this clown??

1451.jpg

Balls? Guts? What?? I would say an idiot trying to get re-elected. Yeah, I can see just how serious he is about the event. It was a show to get him noticed again, sheesh!

Look at all the research put in here, the evidences, the explanations, the hypotheses...................ohh wait :blink:

l46002-1.jpg

you put your left hand in................ and shake it all about

Big hint people, he is a politician, you know those salt of the earth types?

You guys cannot be serious, surely. How many times can a politician change his mind and still be believed? I guess that depends on the subject. Imagine if this joker came forth the other way around and said "yes it was an ET craft" and then came forward and said "I have seen the reports, I cannot be right, it was not ET" what would everyone be screaming then? COVER UP.

There is no win situation here, it is belief all the way in with Fyfe followers.

I am guessing this is a thread to pretend that the math Boon did in the BE thread regarding this event does not exist?

Is this the best people can find for the Phoenix lights ET musing? A politician told them so? Surely we can do better than this?

Directions2%20copy.jpg

Edited by psyche101

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Posted (edited)

phoenix lights...about that time of year I suppose!

this is quite an interesting link

http://www.oracleoft...angulation.html

hmmm I still feel there is unresolved business here...so shall we start with the 8pm... :yes:

back later to discuss why Mitch Stanley's observation amounts to not very much at all:gun:

edit to increase font size

Edited by quillius

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Flares nothing more.

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Flares nothing more.

so the 8pm sightings were flares were they? hmmm Mitch Stanley said planes, plus what kind of Airforce spends over two hours disposing of unused flares? over a populated area?

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Posted (edited)

phoenix lights...about that time of year I suppose!

I have trouble thinking of something new to say that hasn't been said already, including the possible radar detection of teh object by the Air Force and scrambling some jets after it, although those records are not available. This is one of those cases of a possible attempt by the military to cover its own tests and experimental craft with a UFO story, although on the other hand it could also be a genuine unknown--one of many in that part of the world over the years.

Is there anything new to say about it?

Edited by TheMcGuffin

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Flares nothing more.

Yes. Saw a documentary that left no shadow of doubt.

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The coolest part was the slow speed of the object. I guess Fife is glad that nobody sent up fighters to actually shoot at it. Shades of "Mars Attacks" :gun:

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The coolest part was the slow speed of the object. I guess Fife is glad that nobody sent up fighters to actually shoot at it. Shades of "Mars Attacks" :gun:

Some witnesses say they did send up F-15s from Luke Air Force Base, although that has never been officially confirmed, of course.

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Of course. It would be classified, or something.... :whistle:

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Posted (edited)

Of course. It would be classified, or something.... :whistle:

Part of the problem with all the "official" UFO investigations was that no one could quite figure out what the people upstairs wanted to near, or what they were will to accept.

In any objective investigation, a certain percentage of these things will always come back unknown and unexplaining.

So people would be saying that we know they're not ours because we checked, and we know they don't belong to the Soviets or anyone else. We don't know what they are, so what are we supposed to do about it?

And round and round we go, again and again....

And there would always be some joker saying things like "well, you'd better bring us a live one, or at least get some pieces of one to examine", which is easier said than done!

Edited by TheMcGuffin
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I have trouble thinking of something new to say that hasn't been said already, including the possible radar detection of teh object by the Air Force and scrambling some jets after it, although those records are not available. This is one of those cases of a possible attempt by the military to cover its own tests and experimental craft with a UFO story, although on the other hand it could also be a genuine unknown--one of many in that part of the world over the years.

Is there anything new to say about it?

Probably not McG, I do think there is more footage or photos from the 8pm sighting, and maybe a detailed breakdown of the witnesses during the day would be good.

as you say (a little later) we will be left going round the merry go round.

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What got me into this was seeing a NatGeo piece last week. There were many many people shown making comments, interview or otherwise, and I found them to be telling what they saw. Happily nobody is yet claiming that some sort of holograph was at play. :tsu:

Everybody described it about the same. Why should it NOT be a UFO? Why should it NOT be from some other place?

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back later to discuss why Mitch Stanley's observation amounts to not very much at all:gun:

I personally own a 10" Dobsonian and have first hand witnessed what it is capable of, I have to say that it gives Mitch Stanley a massive advantage over the average viewer.

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back later to discuss why Mitch Stanley's observation amounts to not very much at all:gun:

I personally own a 10" Dobsonian and have first hand witnessed what it is capable of, I have to say that it gives Mitch Stanley a massive advantage over the average viewer.

I must agree that Mitch Stanley's impressions on the day should reign supreme based primarily on the superior visual capacity of his Dobsonian. Plus his observations were corroborated by others.

There are two types of people who enter this particular debate; the newcomers who aren't aware of the rather extensive analyses which have been performed and the old-timers who prefer to ignore the significance of those analyses.

I'm curious though Quillius, where were you planning to go with this argument?

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What got me into this was seeing a NatGeo piece last week. There were many many people shown making comments, interview or otherwise, and I found them to be telling what they saw. Happily nobody is yet claiming that some sort of holograph was at play. :tsu:

Everybody described it about the same. Why should it NOT be a UFO? Why should it NOT be from some other place?

That is what always gets me about the Phoenix lights. There are Pilots who were in the air, there are verified logs. We know that it is regulation to dump flares before landing. And nothing was dropped over a populated area because no flares or aliens landed on anyone's heads.

But what does every UFO show say about the military? Do not trust them, they lie all the time. Even though it can be confirmed that the above is true, and the confusion hailed greatly from a reporter reading the wrong log, being the visitors log which had the records of the A10's in it.

What else do the UFO shows do? Interview the local baker, some housewives and some bloke in the street. And somehow the interpretation of a zealous few trump the actual records! I mean lets forget actual records that are kept just exactly for this type of situation and ask the cat lady, or someone who is looking up at the sky. Everyone knows the military exists to lie to the public doesn't it?

Honestly, I do not understand that logic. Pilots are held up as the holy grail of witnesses (which I do not agree with) yet if a pilot works for the military he is part of the Government machine and cannot be trusted al of a sudden? And the average Joe in the street is much more likely to identify military flares than military personnel let alone official records?

One crackpot politician trying to get noticed is hardly proof of ET and does not confirm much more than a situation that one should be wary of I think.

They were flares, insists Lt. Col. Ed Jones, who piloted one of the four A-10s in the squadron that launched the flares.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0225phxlights0225.htmlLINK

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