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Kansas Stiffs Sharia

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47574780/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.T8Epm7BYuVo

Governor Brownback ® of Kansas signed into law a bill banning the use of Sharia as a basis for legal matters in Kansas. It simply codifies the principle that the Constitution reigns supreme in US law. Kind of an "in your face" to Muslims who want to use Sharia for their personal dealings within the State.

I admire him for his stance. If Muslims want to adhere to a code that differs from that set forth in the Constitution then they should be allowed to within their own homes and communities so long as it does not conflict with the Constitution. But they have ZERO right to ever impose it on anyone else. It'd be worse than a Jewish person demanding that everyone in the US eat/live Kosher.

Thoughts, anyone?

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Posted (edited)

I don't think any other law but the law of the US should have any consideration when deciding a case or passing sentence, etc.

Edited by Hilander

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http://www.msnbc.msn...s/#.T8Epm7BYuVo

Governor Brownback ® of Kansas signed into law a bill banning the use of Sharia as a basis for legal matters in Kansas. It simply codifies the principle that the Constitution reigns supreme in US law. Kind of an "in your face" to Muslims who want to use Sharia for their personal dealings within the State.

I admire him for his stance. If Muslims want to adhere to a code that differs from that set forth in the Constitution then they should be allowed to within their own homes and communities so long as it does not conflict with the Constitution. But they have ZERO right to ever impose it on anyone else. It'd be worse than a Jewish person demanding that everyone in the US eat/live Kosher.

Thoughts, anyone?

Imo, unnecessary and probably discriminatory. The Constitution already provides for the separation of State from religion, and the Judiciary is an arm of the State. All a State has to do is affirm it's adherence to that Constitutional provisio, not specify a particular religion in a separate law or Bill.

Or are they going to introduce another Bill to ban any Christian 'value' from being the basis for law? Then another Bill for Jewish 'values', etc?

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Imo, unnecessary and probably discriminatory. The Constitution already provides for the separation of State from religion, and the Judiciary is an arm of the State. All a State has to do is affirm it's adherence to that Constitutional provisio, not specify a particular religion in a separate law or Bill.

Or are they going to introduce another Bill to ban any Christian 'value' from being the basis for law? Then another Bill for Jewish 'values', etc?

Sharia is not just about "values". Sharia is a legal code. So unless you are talking about the Ten Commandments I'm not sure what the "values" being excluded by law would be....

This is an argument I've made countless times concerning Islam in general. It is NOT just a religion. It is a political and legal system as well. It is a system of government. And NO!!!!! I do not want to reopen that can of worms... it was discussed to death already. I think Brownback's action was proper because he represents the citizens of the State of Kansas and THEY do not want any vestige of Sharia being able to slip in under the radar and be accepted by precedent or custom. This law doesn't at all stop individual Muslims from contracting business or doing any other legally binding activity between themselves as long as the parties involved are honorable and accept an informal decision at law between themselves. So everyone except CAIR should be okay with it. The reason CAIR is squealing is exactly because they want such under the radar precedents to become part of the social fabric here, just as it is happening in Europe already. Just ask someone from France.....

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This is an argument I've made countless times concerning Islam in general. It is NOT just a religion. It is a political and legal system as well. It is a system of government.

When you are talking about Islam in the US, or the UK, or any country which is secular - then Islam is not the legal system, nor the basis for government. So, your argument regarding Islam being all those things is irrelevant -except in countries which are not secular.

If you want to discuss the topic you posted, please keep this in mind. If, however, you started this thread because you want to discuss how you believe Islam is taking over the world, then I'll not bother posting anything more.

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Sharia is not just about "values". Sharia is a legal code. So unless you are talking about the Ten Commandments I'm not sure what the "values" being excluded by law would be....

This is an argument I've made countless times concerning Islam in general. It is NOT just a religion. It is a political and legal system as well. It is a system of government. And NO!!!!! I do not want to reopen that can of worms... it was discussed to death already. I think Brownback's action was proper because he represents the citizens of the State of Kansas and THEY do not want any vestige of Sharia being able to slip in under the radar and be accepted by precedent or custom. This law doesn't at all stop individual Muslims from contracting business or doing any other legally binding activity between themselves as long as the parties involved are honorable and accept an informal decision at law between themselves. So everyone except CAIR should be okay with it. The reason CAIR is squealing is exactly because they want such under the radar precedents to become part of the social fabric here, just as it is happening in Europe already. Just ask someone from France.....

"under the radar" sounds about right to me. Isn't the president always talking about doing things under the radar? Isn't he a Muslim?

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When you are talking about Islam in the US, or the UK, or any country which is secular - then Islam is not the legal system, nor the basis for government. So, your argument regarding Islam being all those things is irrelevant -except in countries which are not secular.

If you want to discuss the topic you posted, please keep this in mind. If, however, you started this thread because you want to discuss how you believe Islam is taking over the world, then I'll not bother posting anything more.

I'm not saying that Islam is directly controlling the legal system. I'm saying that Sharia - a component of an Islamic system - is slowly being insinuated into host countries like France and the Netherlands as a couple of examples. It is done incrementally and basically causes small areas where the population is majority Islamic in a host country to be essentially an independent entity within the host country. This action in Kansas is nothing more IMO than the population saying loud and clear - NOT HERE! More States are sure to follow. And, Leo, I would ask that you consider this......if it's irrelevant legally then why is CAIR so concerned? I think it is precisely because they know it will hinder their progress around the country to have such laws in place. And no I do not wish to discuss Islam as a creeping problem any further. Everyone has made their opinions quite clear on the subject.

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Seems like grandstanding by brownback. i don't see the need for a new special specific law to ban something that is already irrelevant in the U.S. judicial system.

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Seems like grandstanding by brownback. i don't see the need for a new special specific law to ban something that is already irrelevant in the U.S. judicial system.

Possibly, after all, he is a politician. But the citizens of France, the Netherlands and to a lesser extent, GB have seen this slow encroachment of semi autonomous enclaves of Sharia. If it truly is irrelevant then I have trouble understanding CAIR's reaction to a little political grandstanding. If their (Kansas) actions are irrelevant then the law harms no one.

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Posted (edited)

There is Sharia in France and the Netherlands?

Edit: typos

Edited by FLOMBIE

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Funny how msnbc makes this story so one sided. Read ths version from theblaze. A much fuller side of the story. They make it clear at the word shariah never appears in the bill and especially is not singled out as msnbc would have you believe. They make it clear that this law says NO to ANY foreign law in our courts.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/its-perfectly-constitutional-kansas-governor-signs-bill-blocking-islamic-law-in-courts-and-government-agencies/

I like the law. It's a nice safe measure against a growing number of judges and politicians who don't agree with the constitution. While technically it may not have been necessary do to the language in our constitution it definitely serves as a healthy reminder to those have considered considering foreign law here. Anyhow, we all know the reason this CAIR group is "outraged". They want their laws imposed here. Otherwise, what else can it be?

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Oklahoma talked about similar legislation.

It is just reactionary paranoia by christian zealots, scared silly by the notion of islam. Amusing really, but in the end I don't know whether to laugh or to cry over the paranoia and fear of the christians.

I've asked before, but nobody can provide an example: IS THERE an example of Sharia law, any segment thereof, being on the books of any state or local government in these here United States of Christianity?

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There is Sharia in France and the Netherlands?

Edit: typos

In Muslim neighborhoods many are allowed to use the Sharia as a nod to cultural sensitivity. I did not say or imply that the countries themselves have converted to Sharia. This law in Kansas was a "shot across the bow" to let Islamic groups know in no uncertain terms that Kansans will not be allowing such to happen there.

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Oklahoma talked about similar legislation.

It is just reactionary paranoia by christian zealots, scared silly by the notion of islam. Amusing really, but in the end I don't know whether to laugh or to cry over the paranoia and fear of the christians.

I've asked before, but nobody can provide an example: IS THERE an example of Sharia law, any segment thereof, being on the books of any state or local government in these here United States of Christianity?

Did you bother to actually read my post? I never said anyone had converted to Sharia. But what Kansas did does not happen in a vacuum either. Other States are sure to follow. The law simply reinforces the idea that Kansas will not allow Sharia to become in any way a judicial code for anyone in the State. Nice try with the slur about fear again though. An older guy like yourself surely knows the difference between fear and respect for a threat. Sharia is in some ways antithetical to our constitution. Slam the door on them before they try to take even an inch. Nice to know you're not ascairt of anythin.... :w00t:

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Embrace your inner coward AND THEN. Be afraid, very afraid, of them thar' muslims. Cut 'em off at the pass, and fire warning shots across their bow.

Every night before you go to bed, contemplate on how they are trying to take over the country.

Back when I was young, it was communists that people were skeered of; today it's the muslim.

You know, it's a wonder the founding fathers weren't skeered of them muslims, or mohamatins or whatever they called them. Heck you would think the 11th Amendment would be something like NO SHARIA ALLOWED. :whistle:

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Embrace your inner coward AND THEN. Be afraid, very afraid, of them thar' muslims. Cut 'em off at the pass, and fire warning shots across their bow.

Every night before you go to bed, contemplate on how they are trying to take over the country.

Back when I was young, it was communists that people were skeered of; today it's the muslim.

You know, it's a wonder the founding fathers weren't skeered of them muslims, or mohamatins or whatever they called them. Heck you would think the 11th Amendment would be something like NO SHARIA ALLOWED. :whistle:

:w00t: See? It is possible to have a sense of humor! An 11th amendment would be nice but I wouldn't waste it on Islam...I'd use it to make people buy more guns :gun::w00t:

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Kind of an "in your face" to Muslims who want to use Sharia for their personal dealings within the State.

Show me where in Kansas this has happened. Or anywhere else in the US. By the same token I expect them to pass laws restricting Jewish law, Catholic law, Methodist law, etc. In actual fact, this is a purile act by very stupid state legislators.

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Oklahoma talked about similar legislation.

It is just reactionary paranoia by christian zealots, scared silly by the notion of islam. Amusing really, but in the end I don't know whether to laugh or to cry over the paranoia and fear of the christians.

I've asked before, but nobody can provide an example: IS THERE an example of Sharia law, any segment thereof, being on the books of any state or local government in these here United States of Christianity?

Wow you're a bigot.....anyways the LAW has nothing to do with Christians. Study Islam for a little bit, maybe actually get to know a Muslim and ask him some questions. As was stated earlier Sharia is about law and not religion.

As for your question about Sharia law being on the books:http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/February/Pa-Judges-Ruling-Proof-of-Sharia-Law-in-US-Courts-/ Furthermore why should we why wait for it to be? What is wrong with being proactive instead of reactionary? Whats the big deal?

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Posted (edited)

I do find it strange that hundreds of thousands of muslims go to great lengths to get away from the repressive backward totalitarian s**tholes they once lived in & head for democratic liberal countries like the US, USA & France etc. & once there attempt to gradually change those countries to adopt the very practices they fled from. Personally if they don't like these western countries & their liberal ways i would fight for their democratic right to **** off back to where they came from.

p.s. in fact why don't we enshrine that in the law. If they don't like their adopted counties (see London muslim protests) then send them back to the country they came from.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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Show me where in Kansas this has happened. Or anywhere else in the US. By the same token I expect them to pass laws restricting Jewish law, Catholic law, Methodist law, etc. In actual fact, this is a purile act by very stupid state legislators.

If the law is foreign, not from America, it's forbidden. Not just shariah. The law doesnt even mention shariah. Why is this such a stupid act? Because it reinforces the laws this country is based on? I don't get why anyone would take issue with this unless of course theyre not a fan of the US and yearn for a fundamental transformation...

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I've always found it amazing how the first people the Muslims would kill given the chance are the ones who want to help them do it. ......cough*...*ninjadude*..cough*....

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.....anyways the LAW has nothing to do with Christians.

Actually it does. Our current US laws are derived from the previous laws - the Magna Carta, jewish law, 10 commandments, etc. They did not arrive in a vaccum.

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If the law is foreign, not from America, it's forbidden. Not just shariah. The law doesnt even mention shariah. Why is this such a stupid act? Because it reinforces the laws this country is based on? I don't get why anyone would take issue with this unless of course theyre not a fan of the US and yearn for a fundamental transformation...

Because like Farmer77, you misunderstand where law comes from. It did not suddenly burst into being. Laws are based on previous laws. From many cultures and many societies that came before us. Including, ISLAM. Our country is based on FOREIGN LAWS.

As for being a stupid act, I said before, there is no case of sharia law being used as the basis for judgement in the US. It can't. It would be appealable and overturned because ANY religous law does not trump secular law. Creating a law like this is wrong because it's not constitutional. If I'm not mistaken, the one in Oklahoma was roundly struck down by courts who had no trouble blasting it's stupidity.

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I've always found it amazing how the first people the Muslims would kill given the chance are the ones who want to help them do it. ......cough*...*ninjadude*..cough*....

I live in a free society governed by laws that protect people. The overwhelming majority of Muslims in my country are generally happy living here and have no desire to kill anyone. Where in the world would you dream up such a thing?

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Because like Farmer77, you misunderstand where law comes from. It did not suddenly burst into being. Laws are based on previous laws. From many cultures and many societies that came before us. Including, ISLAM. Our country is based on FOREIGN LAWS.

As for being a stupid act, I said before, there is no case of sharia law being used as the basis for judgement in the US. It can't. It would be appealable and overturned because ANY religous law does not trump secular law. Creating a law like this is wrong because it's not constitutional. If I'm not mistaken, the one in Oklahoma was roundly struck down by courts who had no trouble blasting it's stupidity.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/February/Pa-Judges-Ruling-Proof-of-Sharia-Law-in-US-Courts-/

As for your comment that I don't understand where law came from...umm huh? I absolutely understand the historical influence of religion on law, all the more reason to ensure sharia is never put in place by an aggressive religion.

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