Dr. Ritchie's Near Death Experience

[markdohle]

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[hooko22]

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Interesting. Thanks for the find.

[markdohle]

Interesting. Thanks for the find.

His book is well worth reading.

peace

mark

[Mikko-kun]

Very interesting. I've heard people here say NDE often contains elements known to you in life, about your thoughts of what happens after death, like it did there. But the OBE appearing there was new to me, and I just wonder if it's the same or similiar OBE or a product of your mind (I assume the OBE talked about here isn't just such). From that you could deduce that OBE is a bridge between this and another world or dimension, whatever it is. Truly an interesting link. I wonder if what came after that OBE is an unification of soul (our consciousness on earth, including memories, feelings, logical stuff, intuitions and such) and spirit (the OBE and things I can't even begin to explain yet, things in a higher level than our soul)... it would make sense, because it seems to me that you could see the after-OBE -experience there as a combination of both. Maybe your spirit sees the higher entity in ways your soul colored it... just hypotheses here.

[White Crane Feather]

Very interesting. I've heard people here say NDE often contains elements known to you in life, about your thoughts of what happens after death, like it did there. But the OBE appearing there was new to me, and I just wonder if it's the same or similiar OBE or a product of your mind (I assume the OBE talked about here isn't just such). From that you could deduce that OBE is a bridge between this and another world or dimension, whatever it is. Truly an interesting link. I wonder if what came after that OBE is an unification of soul (our consciousness on earth, including memories, feelings, logical stuff, intuitions and such) and spirit (the OBE and things I can't even begin to explain yet, things in a higher level than our soul)... it would make sense, because it seems to me that you could see the after-OBE -experience there as a combination of both. Maybe your spirit sees the higher entity in ways your soul colored it... just hypotheses here.

I'm certain of it. In OBEs you only have the framework of your understanding to try and understand. What is a communication with the light is Christ to one person, Buddha the next.

The other place is not like this one. Beings do not have physical forms. The light is not really light. For it to fit in our minds we need relativity. It's the only way it can be. How else are you going to describe something indescribable.

[Mikko-kun]

I see. So the five senses I might perceive there are likely manifestations that are brought from my consciousness and un/subconsciousness into my five senses, illusions of those five senses. If it can take different form depending on what ethics and five-sense -ideals we have absorbed to ourselves in this life, and if it may be an illusion of five senses, then perhaps it is the reflection of our core of what we consider truly selfless, divine and separated from our personal egoism (although I can see that in some religions selfishness is allowed more than in this view). Just trying to put up a hypothetic description about what it might be that we perceive at that moment, a description that an unattuned person like me could understand more fully.

I try to put this description up somehow, no matter how fragile it might be, because I see a pattern here: most animals are believed to not have something we do: sense of higher developed thought. Some animals have developed eyesight, skin-sensors for feeling cold, hot, moist, hard etc, heightened hearing or taste, compared to ours, but we may have very unique mental senses. Think of how we use our touch-sense: to sense where there's hard, rough, smooth, cold, hot etc surface. Some animals actually use that much more than us (like fishes reading the flow of water, insects reading the flow of air). Maybe our senses or parts of them are too transferred to that side, but in that side those senses may become like what our sense of touch is now, a secondary sense which we won't use to tell differences between things. As there's differences between very bad eyesight and actual blindness (let alone not having eyes at all, notice that even those who are blind may be able to see the light of nuclear explosions, notion to a person standing in vicinity of this light and saying "mom, what's that light?"), there may also be differences between how we in this life sense with those senses that may become our primary senses after this life. Some of us, like you Seeker maybe, may use those senses already to more extent than others, or develop them already.

I may sense that the table is hard, a bit cold, has smooth surface and edges with little nodges (of wood) there, but you see that the table is brown and you see the form of table with one glance where a blind man must feel it's all angles to see it. But if you didn't have the sense of touch and wanted to understand the touch part too, then I'd have to introduce you the concept of pain, different emotions and physics and phenomenas related to touch... that would be a very elaborate process, even though I believe it would still be easier than to introduce the concept of eyesight to a blind man. I can draw at least two thoughts from this hypothesis: one, that instead of using your life to try read about these things, experimenting when you feel relatively safe about it is a more productive way. Nothing can replace first-hand sensing as easily as the sensation itself. Two, having your more earthly senses like sight, hearing, taste etc, remain in that side might help you perceive/realise things on that side, even if they're not all the senses you'd want to use there.

Three: I'd like to know my function there: if I was born there as a pig is born here on a pen to live a life waiting to be slaughtered. It's a morbid view, and I hope I can discount it or put it in the "least likely" folder, but to be honest I can't do that just yet. If they're beings with higher sensing and influencing capabilities than us, then they likely have the potential to do so. And if beings like us are this capable of all the destructiveness and malovelance, why not them? From the point of view of other animals, we should be only loving beings if we think beings higher than us can be only loving beings. One possibility is that our way of thinking these "ways of how the world works", our way of sensing these kind of more abstract, thought- or idea-like things, may be a stronger sense and even a way of influence there. It's one thing to be able to sense these things, and another to move these things within you. This is just a hypothesis.

[White Crane Feather]

I see. So the five senses I might perceive there are likely manifestations that are brought from my consciousness and un/subconsciousness into my five senses, illusions of those five senses. If it can take different form depending on what ethics and five-sense -ideals we have absorbed to ourselves in this life, and if it may be an illusion of five senses, then perhaps it is the reflection of our core of what we consider truly selfless, divine and separated from our personal egoism (although I can see that in some religions selfishness is allowed more than in this view). Just trying to put up a hypothetic description about what it might be that we perceive at that moment, a description that an unattuned person like me could understand more fully.

I try to put this description up somehow, no matter how fragile it might be, because I see a pattern here: most animals are believed to not have something we do: sense of higher developed thought. Some animals have developed eyesight, skin-sensors for feeling cold, hot, moist, hard etc, heightened hearing or taste, compared to ours, but we may have very unique mental senses. Think of how we use our touch-sense: to sense where there's hard, rough, smooth, cold, hot etc surface. Some animals actually use that much more than us (like fishes reading the flow of water, insects reading the flow of air). Maybe our senses or parts of them are too transferred to that side, but in that side those senses may become like what our sense of touch is now, a secondary sense which we won't use to tell differences between things. As there's differences between very bad eyesight and actual blindness (let alone not having eyes at all, notice that even those who are blind may be able to see the light of nuclear explosions, notion to a person standing in vicinity of this light and saying "mom, what's that light?"), there may also be differences between how we in this life sense with those senses that may become our primary senses after this life. Some of us, like you Seeker maybe, may use those senses already to more extent than others, or develop them already.

I may sense that the table is hard, a bit cold, has smooth surface and edges with little nodges (of wood) there, but you see that the table is brown and you see the form of table with one glance where a blind man must feel it's all angles to see it. But if you didn't have the sense of touch and wanted to understand the touch part too, then I'd have to introduce you the concept of pain, different emotions and physics and phenomenas related to touch... that would be a very elaborate process, even though I believe it would still be easier than to introduce the concept of eyesight to a blind man. I can draw at least two thoughts from this hypothesis: one, that instead of using your life to try read about these things, experimenting when you feel relatively safe about it is a more productive way. Nothing can replace first-hand sensing as easily as the sensation itself. Two, having your more earthly senses like sight, hearing, taste etc, remain in that side might help you perceive/realise things on that side, even if they're not all the senses you'd want to use there.

Three: I'd like to know my function there: if I was born there as a pig is born here on a pen to live a life waiting to be slaughtered. It's a morbid view, and I hope I can discount it or put it in the "least likely" folder, but to be honest I can't do that just yet. If they're beings with higher sensing and influencing capabilities than us, then they likely have the potential to do so. And if beings like us are this capable of all the destructiveness and malovelance, why not them? From the point of view of other animals, we should be only loving beings if we think beings higher than us can be only loving beings. One possibility is that our way of thinking these "ways of how the world works", our way of sensing these kind of more abstract, thought- or idea-like things, may be a stronger sense and even a way of influence there. It's one thing to be able to sense these things, and another to move these things within you. This is just a hypothesis.

OOB alls sorts of sensing is possible. I have not found any limits. One of the most unique experiences I have had is to branch off my conciousness to look for Somone while I'd did something else.

As to the natural and quite logical fear of higher dimentional beings. I don't share people's beliefs in negative entities. I have worked very hard with people to learn to release, calm, and face their fear so that they can be free OOB. I have discovered that negative ocurances OOB are entirely self created. Higher conciousness of other beings is just that higher. Negativity, evil, cloudiness is impotent in the other place because it is purely born of fear. Fear is the sponsoring motivation for all things we consider bad. Any being in the other Places capable of creation will create their fear and bring the whole universe down upon them. It happens everyday to 100s of thousands people that find themselves oob but allow their mind and animal instincts to sink into fear. Any beings out there do not have fear. So they do not have jealousy, there is no evil, there is no destructive motivations, only beings like ourselves out mucking around have those potentials, but we are very weak in those states and are ocupyed with our own delusions if we have not conquered them. Other beings are on a mission to wake us up not hurt us. Unfortunately, like any good teacher they have to prod us once in a while and bring us out of our comfort zones so they we can learn to stand on our own to feet.

Think of the people here that we consider to have the highest of conciousness, how do they behave. Yup they live lives dedicated to service of others. This is from the deep revelation that we are not separate and other beings are us aswell.

Anyway, that is my take on it. You shouldnt worry yourself about NEGS. If they exist they are week and impotent. But I doubt even their existance.

As to function. We are here for a singular purpose. That purpose is to experience. We are here to relate to one another and our environment. Love, revelation of the great spirit, apreciation of moments. This experience is incomplete without relativity, so we must experience the absence and seperation of all that we are here for aswell.

If you want to serve your purpose well, then revel in every moment you are gifted with, and constantly strive to create moments for others. this is one of he reason we value our entertainers and artists so much, they create moments for us. Don't forget to create moments for yourself either. In my opinion the greatest moments are melding with another person ( makeing love), spending time with a child, being a catalyst for more moments ( healing, saving Somones life, either physically or emotionally), and melding with the light and comeing back to be able to contemplate it. Quite an experience.

Anyway no more rambling

Edited May 28, 2012 by Seeker79

[Mikko-kun]

Thanks Seeker, it's both reassuring and makes sense. Quite a bit so for me.