Obamacare

[RavenHawk]

I'm sorry but I have to add my 2 cents here. I think it's a quite small percentage (hopefully) of lives saved in the hospital, but there have been lives lost due to neglect and mismanagement in health care. In our very own UM (I'm pretty sure it is at least) there's a story of a man who dies of thirst in a hospital. I'll try to find the thread if anyone's interested.

Neglect does happen, but given a certain population, things like that happen more often. I saw security film of a woman in a waiting room that keels over and dies after hours of neglect. Under Obamacare, this will only get worse as the number of doctors and nurses drop and work load increases and the overall quality goes down.

[Gummug]

I've also heard that under Obama care, if you're over 70, you can't get dialysis anymore. I told that to my friend, and he said "oh, that's just Obama-hate on the internet". I wonder if anyone else has heard that and how reliable it is? I suppose I could find out myself, but I don't feel like sifting through 2700 pages of legalese.

[Startraveler]

I've also heard that under Obama care, if you're over 70, you can't get dialysis anymore. I told that to my friend, and he said "oh, that's just Obama-hate on the internet". I wonder if anyone else has heard that and how reliable it is? I suppose I could find out myself, but I don't feel like sifting through 2700 pages of legalese.

No, that isn't true.

[ninjadude]

Under our current private health care system, I challenge anyone to cite one instance, JUST one, of where anyone with or WITHOUT health insurance was turned away at an ER or hospital for care.

The ER is not full healthcare. There are litterally thousands of things the ER won't do. It's for emergencies.

And if you don't pay, the 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars in billing after your "accident", in a short time, they will sue you. If you don't have access to that kind of money, you will declare bankruptcy. Healthcare is the leading cause of bankruptcy. Who then pays the hospital? We all do with higher fees.

Edited July 13, 2012 by ninjadude

[Varelse]

They same Medicare rules that applied to whether or not someone is healthy enough to receive a procedure before ACA still apply. If the individual is not healthy enough for surgery it will usually not be performed. I see and hear about this living in a rural community with a high percentage of retired folks all the time. However, if its for a condition that is most certainly terminal without the procedure its still a call made by the patient and their Dr.

I think as we have become a more obese nation people are becoming more likely to be denied surgery more for being to obese than being to old.

[ninjadude]

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen.html

[ZaraKitty]

Under our current private health care system, I challenge anyone to cite one instance, JUST one, of where anyone with or WITHOUT health insurance was turned away at an ER or hospital for care. Where they were left to "die" at the steps of an emergency room. You can't because it would never happen in America. Everyone gets treated in an emergency whether you are a street bum or an average Joe. There has never been anyone lying in the street who needed an ambulance that didn't get one and didn't get treatment.

Someone cite a single case in the US where a person died because when they got to the hospital doors in an emergency, they checked for proof of insurance and were denied. And I'm not talking about someone who needs treatment for a non-threatening ailment either...I'm talking pure and simple, some will die if they otherwise don't get help. Everyone gets the care they need in that case....who foots the bill can be debated, but nonetheless.

This idea that health care insurance (and it is insurance what this all about, not the fact that someone should be able to get care) is a right, is ridiculous. Is driving a car a right? Heck no. It's a privelage, therefore, having it insured is a private responsibility. Do you people for obamacare also want car insurance paid for by your government? you would state that driving is your right in this country, so Uncle sam should pick up your insurance costs too. ridiculous.

If I had no health insurance whatsoever and was struck by a bus today receiving extensive bodily damage, you can bet your bottom dollar that an ambulance would be dispatched, I would receive immediate attention on the spot by the EMTs, taken to the nearest hospital where surgeries, life-saving treatment and anything else needed would be done to me. By your accounts, the ambulance would drive me to the nearest morgue and drop me off because my insurance card could not be found. again, ridiculous.

Go back a few pages, Aus der Box's sister was turned away when she had lime disease. Multiple times until a doctor would treat her for free. All of those doctors who turned her away, would have left her to die.

[Startraveler]

It's a competitive, transparent marketplace where folks will be able to start comparison shopping for health insurance plans in about 15 months or so.

Thank you Startraveler.

There's an op-ed out today from former Republican Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist--a medical doctor--explaining the merits of the exchange idea and urging both parties to embrace ObamaCare's exchanges:

Originally a Republican idea, the state insurance exchanges mandated under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) will offer a menu of private insurance plans to pick and choose from, all with a required set of minimum benefits, to those without employer-sponsored health insurance. These exchanges are expected to bring health insurance to an additional 16 million Americans. Unlike the Medicaid expansion, these Americans will gain private insurance, and can choose the plan that's right for them.

The exchanges should facilitate competition among private insurers as they design new benefit packages and cut prices to stay ahead of the game. While I'm slow to favor a mandate, these exchanges will offer those who can benefit from insurance a broad array of tailored options and varying prices that should help them find it. Helping more Americans find and compare the private insurance they need and can afford should be an easy principle both political parties agree on.

He reminds us that ObamaCare avoided a single federal approach, instead allowing states to customize solutions to meet their needs:

State exchanges are the solution. They represent the federalist ideal of states as "laboratories for democracy." We are seeing 50 states each designing a model that is right for them, empowered to take into account their individual cultures, politics, economies, and demographics. While much planning has yet to be done, we are already seeing a huge range in state models. I love the diversity and the innovation.

Helping more Americans find and compare the private insurance they need and can afford should be an easy principle both political parties agree on.

Want a more conservative, small-business focused exchange that bans abortion coverage in all its plans? Try Utah and its state exchange, originally founded under Gov. Jon Huntsman. Think that President Obama missed a huge opportunity to steer the nation towards a single payer system? Try Vermont, which plans to ultimately transform its state exchange into a single payer system, Green Mountain Care, that will offer coverage to all state residents. With soaring health care costs one of, if not the most, dangerous threats to America's greatness, a new round of national health care experimentation is exactly what we need.

[ninjadude]

he gone out of the republican party. dissenters are cast out.

[Order66]

Couldn't all the pro-choice arguments be applied to Obamacare? Who is Obama to tell me what to do with my body? Am I just some vessel to advance some misogynistic misanthropic political agenda? Who is Obama to force some health provider on me that I don't want, to make decisions about my health?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Vein Capital

[Render]

Couldn't all the pro-choice arguments be applied to Obamacare? Who is Obama to tell me what to do with my body? Am I just some vessel to advance some misogynistic misanthropic political agenda? Who is Obama to force some health provider on me that I don't want, to make decisions about my health?

Who is gonna make decisions about your health exactly? The same doctor you get, only more expensive, when you don't have obamacare?

[ninjadude]

Couldn't all the pro-choice arguments be applied to Obamacare? Who is Obama to tell me what to do with my body? Am I just some vessel to advance some misogynistic misanthropic political agenda? Who is Obama to force some health provider on me that I don't want, to make decisions about my health?

"Obamacare" doesn't tell you what to do with your body. Obamacare is not healthcare. It's a health insurance reform. Obamacare does not force any health provider on you. Where do you get this drivel?

[+and-then]

"Obamacare" doesn't tell you what to do with your body. Obamacare is not healthcare. It's a health insurance reform. Obamacare does not force any health provider on you. Where do you get this drivel?

When you add millions of new people into an already over burdened system with no mechanism for increasing the numbers of providers, when you force private companies to provide more services for the same or less pay and when you insist it all be done under penalty of law you will cause the system to change in some unexpected ways. Some people will benefit at the cost of most others. Your argument is disingenuous. The legislation doesn't force a provider on anyone but it certainly will cause a large number to leave practice thereby removing choices that were once there. I believe it was designed to fail under it's own weight while damaging private insurance to a point where the only remaining option will be the single payer route...what he really wanted all along.

[Startraveler]

Some points.

1. You don't have to go to the doctor if you don't want to. No one is making you.

2. Contrary to popular belief, the law doesn't ignore the health care workforce; indeed, one of its nine titles is dedicated to workforce development.

The Act funds scholarships and loan repayment programs to increase the number of primary care physicians, nurses, physician assistants, mental health providers, and dentists in the areas of the country that need them most. With a comprehensive approach focusing on retention and enhanced educational opportunities, the Act combats the critical nursing shortage. And through new incentives and recruitment, the Act increases the supply of public health professionals so that the United States is prepared for health emergencies.

The Act provides state and local governments flexibility and resources to develop health workforce recruitment strategies. And it helps to expand critical and timely access to care by funding the expansion, construction, and operation of community health centers throughout the United States.

The Secretary has the authority to take action to strengthen many existing programs that help support the primary care workforce.

Sebelius has also released funds from the Prevention and Public Health Fund to train new primary care providers.

3. Despite the above, numbers aren't everything. Part of the nation's problem is the organization of the health care system; we need to use what we have better than we do. And one of the goals of reform is putting us in a position to start doing that.