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zoser

Tantalising Testimony

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What a cracking testimony and exactly what this thread is all about. This guy has really seen some things. Why would he lie? Keep them coming Bee :tu:

Many people have seen evidence like this, including me, and they can't all be dismissed as dishonest or delusional. Many high-ranking military officers have admitted publicly over the years that it's all true.

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Many people have seen evidence like this, including me, and they can't all be dismissed as dishonest or delusional. Many high-ranking military officers have admitted publicly over the years that it's all true.

I sure wish you would have to prove your claims of seeing in person these things...I have my dad reading some of this site, and some of your replies have caught his eye a few times. He served in the US Army for 38 years, has many awards, was a Sgt. First Class, and has quite the laugh with this. I have a best friend of over 30 years whom has a uncle that worked at " area 51 " for over 20 years, and nothing but " Military " craft and projects there.

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Hey Boony, no worries and thanks for replying my friend! :tu:

I have to agree 100% about the sprites, and after reviewing the 'Hessdalen Project' this morning [at Lost Shaman's prompting] I find that I am now in mind to give a lot more credence to the idea of the 'low altitude atmospheric plasma phenomenon' being a good candidate for certain UFO sightings!

No specific case in mind,... but I think that the reports of 'glowing UFO's of undetermined shape that appear to come from nowhere and have the typical characteristic's of short spells of seemingly erratic behaviour and then end by simply vanishing, fading away or even explosively disappearing into a different dimension ...could be decent targets for that particular theory!

But as you say,...by no means could this explanation be used as a catch-all for the whole of the UFO enigma , ...but if used prudently, I can foresee no unreasonable opposition from either side of the fence to the linking of the two events!... :tsu:

Cheers Buddy.

Thanks 1963, I agree, it is an incredibly amazing phenomena. I think that even after what I've learned regarding plasmas I would probably still be completely Gobsmacked if I were to witness it first hand. :tu:

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It doesn't mean that it does exist either. Supposing it does exist though, it doesn't mean that it is actually what he was told it was.

Do you see where I'm going with this bee? People can tell all kinds of stories, that doesn't make the stories real. This gentleman may be telling the absolute truth. He may have been shown this piece of debris and told exactly what he has shared with us. That doesn't mean that the people who showed it to him were on the up and up or that the object in question was genuine.

Of course there is the possibility that it both exists and that it is genuine as well, but we will probably never know, and that is the crux right there.

For some this may be sufficient evidence, but for me it is just an interesting but unsubstantiated story. It could be true and it could be false. Plain and simple. :hmm:

If he was the only one talking about these kinds of things...a lone voice in the wildnerness...then the points you make might carry more weight.

It's right to question and think about all the possibilities.....any sensible person would automatically do this....

But..... :)

There are too many people talking now...telling their stories, (if you want to put it that way).....about Government(s) cover up on the UFO/ ET subject...

and what they've seen and experienced.

It's amazing really how many stories there are and how they all fit into a bigger picture. As circumstancial evidence goes...(ie. no alien body, no

alien craft to physically see and touch.)....it's pretty darn good if you ask me.

Then there's other things like declassified documents...

Don't make me post the Disclosure Project witnesses one by one...... ^_^

:P

. .

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I sure wish you would have to prove your claims of seeing in person these things...I have my dad reading some of this site, and some of your replies have caught his eye a few times. He served in the US Army for 38 years, has many awards, was a Sgt. First Class, and has quite the laugh with this. I have a best friend of over 30 years whom has a uncle that worked at " area 51 " for over 20 years, and nothing but " Military " craft and projects there.

What is there to laugh about?

And when did I ever say that I was at "Area 51"? I mentioned I was at Ft. Dix, but I never saw any aliens or UFOs there or even gave it any thought at the time.

I mentioned that I spent five years in South Korea, and that I saw one--and only one--UFO there. I was in many other countries afterwards but I never saw another UFO.

That's all I have really said, except mentioning that my father and grandfather were also army officers, and of course mentioning that lecture I attended. That wasn't at "Area 51", though, or anywhere near it. I never even heard of Area 51 or Roswell in that lecture, and never knew about their existence until they started getting publicized by various UFO researchers.

I'm not sure why any of that should be considered laughable.

Anyway, this guy always seems to post and run, and never answers back.

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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What a cracking testimony and exactly what this thread is all about. This guy has really seen some things. Why would he lie? Keep them coming Bee :tu:

thanks zoser.......and cheers to you for all the tantalising testimony in this thread....I haven't had time to keep up with it all. But good on ya.... :tu:

.

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I guess it's probably a good thing that I'm not trying to say that then isn't it?

It's part of my job to keep you guys honest--or at least semi-honest--otherwise you would have people believe that we are just making all of this up as we go along, just based on some personal whim or "religious" feeling. That's far from being the case and you know it.

As for the records and testimony available, quite a bit it indicates something of non-earthly origin, but we have already been through all this a billion times. I just suggest that people start by reading Richard Dolan's books, who is actually quite a "conservative" UFO researcher and historian, but he has a mass of evidence for all this in three volumes covering the 1940s to the present.

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Anyway, this guy always seems to post and run, and never answers back.

Shouldn't he have to provide us with irrefutable evidence that dad was a military guy and that his best friend has an uncle that worked at area 51?

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If he was the only one talking about these kinds of things...a lone voice in the wildnerness...then the points you make might carry more weight.

It's right to question and think about all the possibilities.....any sensible person would automatically do this....

But..... :)

There are too many people talking now...telling their stories, (if you want to put it that way).....about Government(s) cover up on the UFO/ ET subject...

and what they've seen and experienced.

It's amazing really how many stories there are and how they all fit into a bigger picture. As circumstancial evidence goes...(ie. no alien body, no

alien craft to physically see and touch.)....it's pretty darn good if you ask me.

Then there's other things like declassified documents...

Don't make me post the Disclosure Project witnesses one by one...... ^_^

:P

. .

How does the number of testimonials impact the evidential quality of any of them? When you pile up a million weightless nothings they still won't tip the scales.

It is this kind of logic which led to the witch trials and the Spanish Inquisition. It is this kind of logic which perpetuates any kind of mythology.

Feel free to parade the Disclosure Project to your heart's content. It still amounts to little more than a bunch of unsubstantiated testimonies as far as I'm concerned; some of which from extremely shady characters.

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It's part of my job to keep you guys honest--or at least semi-honest--

For someone who threw a conniption over being called a liar I would think you'd be careful about tossing that accusation around yourself. Should I take offense at your apparent implication here?

otherwise you would have people believe that we are just making all of this up as we go along, just based on some personal whim or "religious" feeling. That's far from being the case and you know it.

As for the records and testimony available, quite a bit it indicates something of non-earthly origin, but we have already been through all this a billion times. I just suggest that people start by reading Richard Dolan's books, who is actually quite a "conservative" UFO researcher and historian, but he has a mass of evidence for all this in three volumes covering the 1940s to the present.

Drawing an ET conclusion requires a subjective interpretation of these documents and stories that I don't agree is warranted. Is it a possible explanation? Sure, I won't say that it is impossible. But neither is it the most likely explanation in my opinion. From a simple standpoint of probabilities, it is actually pretty low on the scale from what I can see.

You and anyone else are free to disagree with that, by all means.

I must say though, that if I had dedicated a significant portion of my entire adult life into investigating this enigmatic phenomena only to come away with testimonials and wispy hints of possibilities I'd probably wind up being a pretty grumpy old curmudgeon, or maybe I'd just conclude that there might not be as much to this as I once believed. A certain curse comes to mind actually.

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How does the number of testimonials impact the evidential quality of any of them? When you pile up a million weightless nothings they still won't tip the scales.

It is this kind of logic which led to the witch trials and the Spanish Inquisition. It is this kind of logic which perpetuates any kind of mythology.

Feel free to parade the Disclosure Project to your heart's content. It still amounts to little more than a bunch of unsubstantiated testimonies as far as I'm concerned; some of which from extremely shady characters.

There is a line when healthy skepticism becomes unhealthy skepticism and you just crossed it.....IMO.... :hmm:

.

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There is a line when healthy skepticism becomes unhealthy skepticism and you just crossed it.....IMO.... :hmm:

.

How so bee?

Please define this line in detail and then explain how exactly I crossed it.

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What is there to laugh about?

And when did I ever say that I was at "Area 51"? I mentioned I was at Ft. Dix, but I never saw any aliens or UFOs there or even gave it any thought at the time.

I mentioned that I spent five years in South Korea, and that I saw one--and only one--UFO there. I was in many other countries afterwards but I never saw another UFO.

That's all I have really said, except mentioning that my father and grandfather were also army officers, and of course mentioning that lecture I attended. That wasn't at "Area 51", though, or anywhere near it. I never even heard of Area 51 or Roswell in that lecture, and never knew about their existence until they started getting publicized by various UFO researchers.

I'm not sure why any of that should be considered laughable.

Anyway, this guy always seems to post and run, and never answers back.

I do not post and run, and I may owe you an apology.

I may have directed that to the wrong person with a similar avatar. And either way, it was not intended as a bad thing, just a comment.

Now, if I have this wrong I apologize, I do not often post in this section, and I definitley do not post and run.

I thought I had read in the past, numerous times that you have personally seen, talked with, worked with, and have access to " evidence " that the Government is hiding a " alien " conspiracy.

If I am wrong, and not you, sorry about that. If I am not, then what I said was for you :)

Maybe I should not post while working graveyard, and little sleep.

Edit : Show me where I " seem to all ways post and run, and never answer back "......That I would love to see.

Edited by Sakari

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Shouldn't he have to provide us with irrefutable evidence that dad was a military guy and that his best friend has an uncle that worked at area 51?

Want my phone number, we can talk, and I will give you my fathers number?

I can go to his house next weekend, take some pictures?

I can also invite you to my home, we have 2 extra rooms, salmon fishing is starting, and you can meet my Father while here?

Or you tell me what you would like?

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Shouldn't he have to provide us with irrefutable evidence that dad was a military guy and that his best friend has an uncle that worked at area 51?

I am uploading a video I made for my dads birthday to vimeo right now.When I wake up in about 2 hours or so, I will post the video.If that is not enough, we can go on to my other suggestions, or whatever you would like for proof.

I back up what I say, with no hesitation.

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Want my phone number, we can talk, and I will give you my fathers number?

I can go to his house next weekend, take some pictures?

I can also invite you to my home, we have 2 extra rooms, salmon fishing is starting, and you can meet my Father while here?

Or you tell me what you would like?

Well, I can't give anyone my father's number because he's dead, and I really don't want anyone calling me. I have no desire to be a public personality or make new "friends". Frankly, the majority of people I've met in my life I wish I hadn't, and I sure don't want to start meeting new ones now.

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I do not post and run, and I may owe you an apology.

I may have directed that to the wrong person with a similar avatar. And either way, it was not intended as a bad thing, just a comment.

Now, if I have this wrong I apologize, I do not often post in this section, and I definitley do not post and run.

Edit : Show me where I " seem to all ways post and run, and never answer back "......That I would love to see.

Well, this is the first time I can recall you answering back anything I've said, but if you have I apologize.

I never in my life said that I worked in "Area 51" or anything like that, so I don't know where you got that impression. I never said that I personally handled wreckage or saw alien bodies.

I said that I have seen pictures and documents about these things, especially in that lecture I was invited to, and some others that I saw over the years. That's all I've ever said, apart from mentioning some other military people who told me their stories over the years.

I have the strong impression that a lot of the really "good stuff" has never been written down in documents at all, or that they may have been shredded along the way. You do hear a lot of things by word of mouth with no paper trail, or at least what really happened is very different from what ended up being written down.

Edited by TheMacGuffin

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Well, I can't give anyone my father's number because he's dead, and I really don't want anyone calling me. I have no desire to be a public personality or make new "friends". Frankly, the majority of people I've met in my life I wish I hadn't, and I sure don't want to start meeting new ones now.

That was not for you :)

I never ask for anything like that, that was my offer to someone wanting " proof " about my dad.

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There is a line when healthy skepticism becomes unhealthy skepticism and you just crossed it.....IMO.... :hmm:

.

How so bee?

Please define this line in detail and then explain how exactly I crossed it.

Is it because I said "When you pile up a million weightless nothings they still won't tip the scales." ?

I suppose that could be easily misunderstood, so I'd like to clarify what I meant. I wasn't saying that the testimonies are worthless and I wasn't saying that the people giving them are "nothings."

What I was talking about was the evidential value for the ETH only. I think the people who report this phenomena are truly seeing things (well, most of them are anyway). I also don't hold their sightings against them in any way. I completely agree that these are valid and real experiences (again, most of them anyway). I just don't agree that this is evidence in support of the ETH. It is evidence in support of the UFO phenomena in general, but that's pretty much the extent of it. There is also evidence of government and military secrecy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the government and military are hiding extraterrestrial artifacts. There are completely legitimate reasons for government and military secrecy that have absolutely nothing to do with aliens.

Plus, there are completely legitimate (I use the word lightly in this case) reasons that intelligence operations may subject random or selected people to falsified 'evidence' of alien artifacts. The biggest reason that comes to mind on this front is to check for potential security leaks. Tell 10 different people 10 different stories and find out which story makes it to "the enemy" (whoever the enemy may be...) and you've identified your leak pretty effectively.

Hope that helps clarify and somewhat softens the rather blunt way that I originally conveyed my point.

Edit: Oh my, a potentially disastrous typo...

Edited by booNyzarC

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ssshhhhhhhh Kludge.....don't burst LS's bubble....... :D

;):innocent:

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Hi, bmk,

I have to get back on this. I'm swamped and daughter person needs me a lot more than UM does.

That was in response to Zoser's The tiny fishing community has always had its stories... stories of giant sea serpents, man-eating squid, and ghost ships.

Ah, okay. So the Grand and Glorious Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't really appear at Shag Harbor. *whew* ... had be worried. ;)

While true, but here might be the case, for radars at least.

I need a little time to review and refresh my own memory from the early-mid 60s however the object, whatever it was, was reported as being at 30,000' (roughly 9 km) while the airliner was at 39,000' (just shy of 12 km.) It and the F-117 were looking down on it. The radar was looking up. I'm sure that means something but at the moment I can't think of what. I hate when that happens.

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Me too Kludge ! Its something to doo with too much oatmeal in the Grey matter !

THis Is why all Aliens are so little and Have Almonds in there eyes and are grey ! :alien::no:

Well maybe not !

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Hi, folks,

If I disappear for a while, it's because I've managed to either put one too many irons in the fire or am furthering my progress in getting on a first name basis with the folks at the ER ... especially some of the nurses. Or this freaking truck has driven me over the edge and I've gone stark raving sane. (I don't want to talk about it. I'll start whimpering again.) Anyway, this is fun and educational and challenging and even just watching is pretty cool so I do hope to hang in for a while longer.

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Hi, folks,

If I disappear for a while, it's because I've managed to either put one too many irons in the fire or am furthering my progress in getting on a first name basis with the folks at the ER ... especially some of the nurses. Or this freaking truck has driven me over the edge and I've gone stark raving sane. (I don't want to talk about it. I'll start whimpering again.) Anyway, this is fun and educational and challenging and even just watching is pretty cool so I do hope to hang in for a while longer.

See Y`az "K"~ :clap::tu:

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See Y`az "K"~ :clap::tu:

Heh, I haven't left quite yet. Just if I do suddenly become vapor or something ...

Hmmm ... that "something" has me worried and I'm the one who said it! :hmm:

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