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zoser

Tantalising Testimony

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Some are less closed minded than others Haz; that's what it boils down to. I don't reject things just because it wasn't what I was drilled with at high school.

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DYATLOV PASS - SOME ANSWERS. http://www.aquiziam....ss_answers.html

Didn't really answer anything. No worries Haz; just about to have a bite to eat then I'll post some information about it.

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LMAO wish I could read Russian, mind translating that?

Literally "Russian Strelkov Vodka".

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ok thank you

good I am glad you admit that basically we are all catergorised in the same why by you......whether its a belief or a claim we are all woo woos......

not that I didnt think this was your outlook its nice to have it down in black and white. :tu:

Yes, of course it existed, and probably still does under a different name. BMK or anyone else can easily look it up.

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LMAO wish I could read Russian, mind translating that?

Actually, I got it from Google Translate http://translate.google.com/

According to them it means:

Russian vodka shooters!

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The Dyatlov Pass - Ural Mountains - 1959

At the end of January 1959, a Russian cross-country ski team ventured into the Northern Ural Mountains. Their expedition was intended to be a week-long skiing adventure, with the goal to reach a mountain in the Urals called Oroten. But though they set out from Vizhai—the last inhabited settlement that fat north—on January 27, they never came back. Or at least, they didn’t come back on their own. Numerous attempts have been made to reconstruct the events that had led to what has now become known as the DYATLOV PASS INCIDENT, with varying degrees of success. The trouble, you see, wasn’t that the team disappeared. It was the state they were in when they were found.

Here’s what we know: Led by Igor Dyatlov, the ski team consisted of eight men (including Dyatlov) and two women: Yuri Yuden, Alexander Zolotarev, Nicolai Thibeaux-Brignolle, Yuri Doroshenko, Yuri Krivonischenko, Rustem Zlobodin, Alexander Kolevatov, Lyudmila Dubinina, and Zinaida Kolmogorova. Nearly all of them were either students or graduates of the Ural Polytechnic Institute. On January 25, they arrived by train at Ivdel. From there, they took a truck to Vizhai.

They left Vizhai on January 27; the next day Yuri Yudin fell ill and returned to Vizhai, cutting down the group’s numbers to nine. Diaries and cameras found around the last camp they ever made show that they arrived at the edge of a highland area on January 31 and readied themselves for a climb. They cached food and equipment for the trip back in a woody valley. On February 1, they began to make their way through a mountain pass, evidently with the intent to cross over the pass and camp on the opposite side. However, due to heavy snowstorms, they lost their bearings and veered west, landing them on the eastern shoulder of a mountain known as Kholat Syakhl. Upon realizing what had happened, they made the decision to stop there and set up camp.

And then: Nothing. Dyatlov was supposed to send a telegraph to the team’s sports club as soon as they returned to Vizhai– no later than February 12, he had said– but February 12 came and went and no telegraph appeared. Initially, there was little fuss made over the missing skiers; given the snowy conditions of the Urals, delays were a common occurrence. Worried family members, however, were not content simply to wait for their loved ones to return, and they spurred the Ural Polytechnic Institute into action.

On February 20, the first of the rescue parties went out to search for the skiers. When they came up with nothing, the military and the police are involved. Six days later on February 26, the team’s camp was finally spotted from an airplane. The camp was deserted.

The tents were badly damaged. Footsteps led down from the camp to the edge of nearby woods, but they disappeared, covered by snow, after 500 meters.

At the edge of the forest, there were the remains of a fire– along with the bodies of Yuri Krivonischenko and Yuri Doroshenko. They were lying under a cedar tree, buried in snow. 300 meters from the fire, searchers found the body of Igor Dyatlov, lying on his back with his head pointing towards the tents. He held a branch from a birch tree in one hand; with the other, he appeared to be shielding his head. 180 meters away from Dyatlov’s body was the body of Rustem Slobodin. Slobodin was face-down in the snow.

Another 150 meters away from Slobodin, searchers found the body of Zinaida Kolmogorov. Of these five, most were wearing little to no clothing. It was another two months before the other four members of the team were found, but on May 4, Lyudmila Dubinina, Alexander Zolotareva, , Nicolai Thibeaux-Brignolle, and Alexander Kolevatov were found. They were better clothed; however, they were also in a ravine buried under four meters of snow.

The fact that they were all found dead is both strange enough and tragic enough as it is; but things truly took a turn for the bizarre when forensics got their hands on the data. The first five bodies found were determined to have died of hypothermia– perhaps unsurprising given the lack of clothing, though that is a mystery in and of itself. But that cedar tree that Krivonischenko and Doroshenko had been found under? It wasn’t just a tree.

The branches had been broken off the tree at a height of approximately five meters, and traces skin and other tissues were found embedded in the trunk. The implication is not only that the two skiers tried to climb the tree, but also that they were so frantic that they kept scrambling at it in spite of the broken branches until their hands were literally raw. Furthermore, Slobodin and Thibeaux-Brignolle both had skull fractures, and Dubinina and Zolotareva both had broken ribs. And let’s not forget that Dubinina, Zolotareva, Thibeaux-Brignolle, and Kolevatov were found in a ravine some distance away. Kolevatov was found to have died of hypothermia. Dubinina, Zolotareve, and Thibeaux-Brignolle died due to their wounds.

Oh, and Dubinina was missing her tongue.

Initially, it was thought that perhaps indigenous Mansi people might have attacked and murder the group for trespassing on their land; the apparent lack of a struggle, however, discredited this theory. The lack of clothing may have been due to something called “paradoxical undressing”: Already suffering from moderate to severe hypothermia, a person may become disoriented and confused, at which point they may begin shedding their clothing.

But still other clues were harder to explain: The tent, for instance, had been ripped open from the inside; the footsteps around the camp indicated that all the group members had left the camp of their on accord, though the positions of the bodies Dyatlov, Slobodin, and Kolmogorov showed that they had been trying to return to it; the injuries of the group found in the ravine could not, according to Dr. Boriz Vozrohdenny, have been caused by another human (“It was equal to the effect of a car crash,” he said); and what little clothing had been found on the bodies all demonstrated a high level of radioactive contamination.

Yes. The clothing was radioactive.

But late in May in 1959, the inquest into the deaths of the nine skiers ceased due to the absence of a guilty party. The final verdict declared the group died because of a “compelling unknown force.” The files pertaining to the inquest were packed away carefully and sent to a secret archive. And that, as they say, was that.

Here’s the scariest part: All of this is absolutely, 100% true. The pass they were found in was named Dyatlov Pass, after the team’s leader, and the unknown events of February 1 that led to the group’s tragic fate have been dubbed the Dyatlov Pass Incident. A few of the claims that rolled in later on, however, may or may not be true. What claims? Try these on for size:

After the funerals, many of the victims’ relatives said that the victims’ skin had turned an odd brown color.

The source of the radiation was never found.

A group of hikers about 50 kilometers south of the Dyatlov team reported sightings of strange orange spheres in the north—the direction towards Kholat Syakhl—on the evening of February 1.

Large amounts of scrap metal were reportedly found in the area around the camp.

These claims have led many to believe that the Dyatlov Pass Incident was caused by either the paranormal or the government. The spheres point to the paranormal; the other pieces of information point to the possibility that the government or the military had used the area and were now involved in a cover-up.

fe1675c34f48.jpg

1349_12-13_dyatlov21.jpg

dyatlov-pass-accident-memorial.jpg

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Literally "Russian Strelkov Vodka".

LOL I always thought Russians could handle there vodka better, guess I was wrong

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The Dyatlov Pass - Ural Mountains - 1959

At the end of January 1959, a Russian cross-country ski team ventured into the Northern Ural Mountains. Their expedition was intended to be a week-long skiing adventure, with the goal to reach a mountain in the Urals called Oroten. But though they set out from Vizhai—the last inhabited settlement that fat north—on January 27, they never came back. Or at least, they didn’t come back on their own. Numerous attempts have been made to reconstruct the events that had led to what has now become known as the DYATLOV PASS INCIDENT, with varying degrees of success. The trouble, you see, wasn’t that the team disappeared. It was the state they were in when they were found.

Here’s what we know: Led by Igor Dyatlov, the ski team consisted of eight men (including Dyatlov) and two women: Yuri Yuden, Alexander Zolotarev, Nicolai Thibeaux-Brignolle, Yuri Doroshenko, Yuri Krivonischenko, Rustem Zlobodin, Alexander Kolevatov, Lyudmila Dubinina, and Zinaida Kolmogorova. Nearly all of them were either students or graduates of the Ural Polytechnic Institute. On January 25, they arrived by train at Ivdel. From there, they took a truck to Vizhai.

They left Vizhai on January 27; the next day Yuri Yudin fell ill and returned to Vizhai, cutting down the group’s numbers to nine. Diaries and cameras found around the last camp they ever made show that they arrived at the edge of a highland area on January 31 and readied themselves for a climb. They cached food and equipment for the trip back in a woody valley. On February 1, they began to make their way through a mountain pass, evidently with the intent to cross over the pass and camp on the opposite side. However, due to heavy snowstorms, they lost their bearings and veered west, landing them on the eastern shoulder of a mountain known as Kholat Syakhl. Upon realizing what had happened, they made the decision to stop there and set up camp.

And then: Nothing. Dyatlov was supposed to send a telegraph to the team’s sports club as soon as they returned to Vizhai– no later than February 12, he had said– but February 12 came and went and no telegraph appeared. Initially, there was little fuss made over the missing skiers; given the snowy conditions of the Urals, delays were a common occurrence. Worried family members, however, were not content simply to wait for their loved ones to return, and they spurred the Ural Polytechnic Institute into action.

On February 20, the first of the rescue parties went out to search for the skiers. When they came up with nothing, the military and the police are involved. Six days later on February 26, the team’s camp was finally spotted from an airplane. The camp was deserted.

The tents were badly damaged. Footsteps led down from the camp to the edge of nearby woods, but they disappeared, covered by snow, after 500 meters.

At the edge of the forest, there were the remains of a fire– along with the bodies of Yuri Krivonischenko and Yuri Doroshenko. They were lying under a cedar tree, buried in snow. 300 meters from the fire, searchers found the body of Igor Dyatlov, lying on his back with his head pointing towards the tents. He held a branch from a birch tree in one hand; with the other, he appeared to be shielding his head. 180 meters away from Dyatlov’s body was the body of Rustem Slobodin. Slobodin was face-down in the snow.

Another 150 meters away from Slobodin, searchers found the body of Zinaida Kolmogorov. Of these five, most were wearing little to no clothing. It was another two months before the other four members of the team were found, but on May 4, Lyudmila Dubinina, Alexander Zolotareva, , Nicolai Thibeaux-Brignolle, and Alexander Kolevatov were found. They were better clothed; however, they were also in a ravine buried under four meters of snow.

The fact that they were all found dead is both strange enough and tragic enough as it is; but things truly took a turn for the bizarre when forensics got their hands on the data. The first five bodies found were determined to have died of hypothermia– perhaps unsurprising given the lack of clothing, though that is a mystery in and of itself. But that cedar tree that Krivonischenko and Doroshenko had been found under? It wasn’t just a tree.

The branches had been broken off the tree at a height of approximately five meters, and traces skin and other tissues were found embedded in the trunk. The implication is not only that the two skiers tried to climb the tree, but also that they were so frantic that they kept scrambling at it in spite of the broken branches until their hands were literally raw. Furthermore, Slobodin and Thibeaux-Brignolle both had skull fractures, and Dubinina and Zolotareva both had broken ribs. And let’s not forget that Dubinina, Zolotareva, Thibeaux-Brignolle, and Kolevatov were found in a ravine some distance away. Kolevatov was found to have died of hypothermia. Dubinina, Zolotareve, and Thibeaux-Brignolle died due to their wounds.

Oh, and Dubinina was missing her tongue.

Initially, it was thought that perhaps indigenous Mansi people might have attacked and murder the group for trespassing on their land; the apparent lack of a struggle, however, discredited this theory. The lack of clothing may have been due to something called “paradoxical undressing”: Already suffering from moderate to severe hypothermia, a person may become disoriented and confused, at which point they may begin shedding their clothing.

But still other clues were harder to explain: The tent, for instance, had been ripped open from the inside; the footsteps around the camp indicated that all the group members had left the camp of their on accord, though the positions of the bodies Dyatlov, Slobodin, and Kolmogorov showed that they had been trying to return to it; the injuries of the group found in the ravine could not, according to Dr. Boriz Vozrohdenny, have been caused by another human (“It was equal to the effect of a car crash,” he said); and what little clothing had been found on the bodies all demonstrated a high level of radioactive contamination.

Yes. The clothing was radioactive.

But late in May in 1959, the inquest into the deaths of the nine skiers ceased due to the absence of a guilty party. The final verdict declared the group died because of a “compelling unknown force.” The files pertaining to the inquest were packed away carefully and sent to a secret archive. And that, as they say, was that.

Here’s the scariest part: All of this is absolutely, 100% true. The pass they were found in was named Dyatlov Pass, after the team’s leader, and the unknown events of February 1 that led to the group’s tragic fate have been dubbed the Dyatlov Pass Incident. A few of the claims that rolled in later on, however, may or may not be true. What claims? Try these on for size:

After the funerals, many of the victims’ relatives said that the victims’ skin had turned an odd brown color.

The source of the radiation was never found.

A group of hikers about 50 kilometers south of the Dyatlov team reported sightings of strange orange spheres in the north—the direction towards Kholat Syakhl—on the evening of February 1.

Large amounts of scrap metal were reportedly found in the area around the camp.

These claims have led many to believe that the Dyatlov Pass Incident was caused by either the paranormal or the government. The spheres point to the paranormal; the other pieces of information point to the possibility that the government or the military had used the area and were now involved in a cover-up.

fe1675c34f48.jpg

1349_12-13_dyatlov21.jpg

dyatlov-pass-accident-memorial.jpg

Thanks Zoser this is greatly helpful

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Salida Colorado - 1995

I just posted this on another thread but I need to do it again here for completion. One of the most convincing pieces of footage ever taken and here is the man himself telling his story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0R94IB5rjo

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.

This is for Sweetpumper.......experimental hologram!!

(actually come to think of it, I'm not sure if I'm joking or not.... :unsure: ...but one thing I am sure of, I'm only speculating).... :P

thanks for posting it zoser...

the little white orb things near the end are interesting....if they're not kamakaze birds...!

.

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*snip*

Edited by Saru
Removed link due to malware warning

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Because Santa and fairies are fictional characters. The concept that technologically advanced alien life might exist and choose to explore space is more of a speculation. I'm pretty sure that most scientists don't advocate looking for Santa and his elves, but many do think looking for signs of alien life to be a worthwhile endeavour.

I know, Lilly, I was just rattling your cage. Sorry...

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[...]

good I am glad you admit that basically we are all catergorised in the same why by you......whether its a belief or a claim we are all woo woos......

not that I didnt think this was your outlook its nice to have it down in black and white. :tu:

Well, if you put '=' between UFO and ET, then 'yes'. If 'might be' instead of '=', then 'no'.

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Well, if you put '=' between UFO and ET, then 'yes'. If 'might be' instead of '=', then 'no'.

Quillus is right about BMK, but it just doesn't matter very much in the vast scheme of things.

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*snip*

Is this an intentional link to a Trojan site? Coming up as malicious for me.

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[...]

Yes. The clothing was radioactive.

[...]

Yu. Krivonischenko worked at Mayak plant (in 1957 Kyshtym disaster happened there), so slight contamination (2-3.7 times that of normal levels) of clothes may have happened from the environment (dust, dirt, etc).

(link, in Russian)

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Is this an intentional link to a Trojan site? Coming up as malicious for me.

Avira seems don't find wrong doings. There are some stills from video there similar to Salida footage.

But if mods will find that website harmful, they will delete link, and I'll find another way to post images.

Edited by bmk1245

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There's a stabilized version if anyone is interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYZgt07pn1Q

What do you make of the video Boony?...Do you think that it could be an example of that 'atmospheric-plasma' that we discussed?

Or could this film be something just as simple as a reflection on a glass window from behind the cameraman?

I must say that the account of the sighting/filming given by Tim and his daughter Brandy, sounds sincere enough....but the 'object' in the clip itself doesn't seem quite real to me. And the smaller 'orbs' [as someone described them] look like a couple of pigeons darting around the scene in my opinion....But then as always,..I could be way off the mark!...what do you think ?

Cheers buddy.

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Yu. Krivonischenko worked at Mayak plant (in 1957 Kyshtym disaster happened there), so slight contamination (2-3.7 times that of normal levels) of clothes may have happened from the environment (dust, dirt, etc).

(link, in Russian)

And what about the others?

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What do you make of the video Boony?...Do you think that it could be an example of that 'atmospheric-plasma' that we discussed?

Or could this film be something just as simple as a reflection on a glass window from behind the cameraman?

I must say that the account of the sighting/filming given by Tim and his daughter Brandy, sounds sincere enough....but the 'object' in the clip itself doesn't seem quite real to me. And the smaller 'orbs' [as someone described them] look like a couple of pigeons darting around the scene in my opinion....But then as always,..I could be way off the mark!...what do you think ?

Cheers buddy.

You mean he hoaxed it? He was outside looking at the the thing with his daughter! What do you classify as real when looking at UFO footage? Please clarify.

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Didn't really answer anything. No worries Haz; just about to have a bite to eat then I'll post some information about it.

Shocker,... :lol:

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Which throws into question the cultural version of the scientific principle which seems based on nothing real at all, but rather is a place to hide for closed un-trusting minds.

Could you extrapolate about what you see as "the cultural version of the scientific principle"?

Also, if the evidence is lacking why should I trust that what others are telling me is the truth? People are notoriously bad in this regard. People frequently conclude things, see things, believe in things based on speculation, fantasy, wish fulfillment. religious fervor etc. We humans just aren't that good at being unbiased observers/thinkers. The scientific method simply provides the guideline for us to rationally gather knowledge.

Edited by Lilly
spelling
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Could you extrapolate about what you see as "the cultural version of the scientific principle"?

Also, if the evidence is lacking why should I trust that what others are telling me is the truth? People are notoriously bad in this regard. People frequently conclude things, see things, believe in things based on speculation, fantasy, wish fulfillment. religious fervor etc. We humans just aren't that good at being unbiased observers/thinkers. The scientific method simply provides the guideline for us to rationally gather knowledge.

Whose scientific method? That's the point. Adherents of classic science band this phrase around as if it is written in some bible that all are familiar with and comply to. What I am trying to say is that is a monumental assumption.

I'm not one of these people either that advocates the cliche 'truth is relative'. It's clearly not.

The problem I have regarding the phrase 'scientific truth' as banded about on this forum is:

(1) It's undefined.

(2) It seems only to constitute UFO's landing on the White House lawn or in someone's back garden.

(3) It gets used as a peg to hang one's coat of denial on.

Do see that if (2) happens there will still be those that are still in heavy denial and claim that it's the Russians doing. That's the point; no proof is good enough.

That's why collecting incidents, cross checking details, and looking for correlation is the best way.

Scientific method is like the myth of Atlantis; everyone seems sure it exists but no one can actually find it.

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Science doesn't claim to find "the truth". The scientific method proposes and tests hypotheses. There's full awareness that future evidence may cause refinement/revision/rejection of any hypothesis (even theories).

Basically, the scientific method offers us a manner in which to look critically at things, to subject our ideas to falsification, to search for viable evidence, to examine and question before coming to any conclusions.

This is summed up nicely by Carl Sagan in what he called a method for "baloney detection"

http://www.planetforlife.com/aboutpfl/baloney.html

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