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zoser

Tantalising Testimony

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Well!...someone's got a bee in his bonnet about this video , haven't they Zoser!

Firstly...I believe that the balance of having the requisite amount of 'trust in human integrity', and falling into the 'gullible-fool class' is a lot trickier than you imagine my young friend!...And is a life skill that we all strive to master. And of course, I can speak only for myself,..but there has been plenty of pitfalls along my humble attempts to improve my powers of assessing the initial validity-factor of any given case. ...But I believe that to this end, I am genuinely trying to ameliorate!

And so I would appreciate it if you would not try to give me a lecture in the subject of trusting a witness statement from a person that it is impossible for me to personally vouch for!

Tim Edwards, as I have stated several times before, ..has imo, the demeanor of a honest and reliable witness. But also, as I said previously...i've been fooled by that opinion before! And i'm sure that history will prove, .. so has just about everyone in the world at some time or other!

His daughters testimony?.. I find is a plus point, but by no means a deal-breaker ..on account of her youth. And one cannot rule out the possibility that a child would think it prudent to back-up her fathers story! [but I am not saying that this is the case here...just a possibility]

Your other point is unwarranted because I never mentioned CGI...the film didn't feel that way to me!

And secondly...I noticed that you pasted a small section from the link that you provided. ...I assume that you think that the passage somehow proves that Tim Edward's film is authentic...?

"IN ADDDITION TO 21 WITNESSES IN 13 DIFFERENT LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT COLORADO HAVING SIGHTINGS OF THE SAME OBJECT WITHIN A 48-HOUR PERIOD OF EDWARDS' TAPING, OTHER INDIVIDUALS IN CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA, NEW MEXICO, MONTANA, INDIANA, AND OTHER PARTS OF THE U.S. HAVE COME FORWARD TO REPORT SIGHTINGS OF VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL, "CIGAR" OR TUBE-SHAPED LARGE FLYING OBJECTS,"

Did you notice that the article makes a rather large leap that the objects witnessed by the '21 other witnesses in the 13 different locations' were the actual same object?...and then goes on to say.."virtually identical, cigar or tube-shaped large flying object"...note .."virtually identical"!...but it's a pretty-much done deal that it was the same object!...?

and then there's the...

"WITH SOME PROVIDING PHOTOS AND VIDEOS ALONG WITH THE ACCOUNTS OF THEIR EXPERIENCES."

....fine!...but No Links to then?...and continues...

"IN PARTICULAR, UFO ENTHUSIAST TOM KING HAS CAPTURED ON VIDEOTAPE ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS SEVERAL FRAMES OF THE "MAIN CRAFT" AS WELL AS A VIRTUAL CATALOGUE WITHIN HIS "SOLAR CORONA" VIDEO FOOTAGE OF MANY TYPES OF SMALLER UFOS IN THE SKIES OVER PHOENIX."

...Still No Link..?

..So I go and find my own Tom King photos...

KingPuk1095.jpg

...and this is all that I can find from Tom King here at this link....

file:///C:/Users/Alex/Desktop/Page%20Title.htm

...doesn't look a lot like Tim's UFO to me...?

salidacolorado.jpg

...so I looked further!...but then I hit a stream of sites that made it overpoweringly obvious that 'Tom King' [skywatcher] was nothing but one of those despicable charlatans in ufology that I loath !...A Hoaxer!....

http://www.ufovideo.net/TomKing1.htm

so, I didn't bother to search for his 'smoking-gun' after that!

Also in the article that you linked, there were references to the 'Aerobatic Movement' of the object displayed...and speeds of movement measured at up to '10,000 mph'...I have to say that after viewing the film several times...I still haven't seen where that happened?...Nor have I seen the "pulsating coloured lights" that have been attributed to the object in the video in many of the numerous articles about the film online?... I assume that the authors of these articles are referring to Tim's remark that he could see these through his binoculars...but i'll be jiggered if I can see any reds or greens in the film!.....even in the enhanced version provided by Boony, I cannot see any colours....can you..?

....And now what are we left with to validate the Tim Edwards video then ...?Just his testimony, and the word of his little girl?

In all honesty Zoser, i'm not really sure at all just what to make of Tim's story!

On one hand, your'e right..Tim does come across as a decent honest individual that may just have filmed a truly anomalous UFO!...And I have always held Dr Bruce Maccabee in high esteem, and the film certainly seems to have interested him.?

But on the other hand...there is the fact that Tim testified that the encounter lasted for at least an hour...but yet he only managed to film 5 mins and 20 secs of it!...His reasoning for this was that the batteries were low in the camera...and so he simply just stood and watched the event... instead of going back indoors and replacing them , thus being able to film 'perhaps the most convincing part of his claim,[ that the object flew away].

And also...there's the question in my mind of,.. if there were so many witnesses around as he says...why did no one else get a film or photograph of the event?...This may be a void point...but personally I tend to give more credence to a witness that gives his evidence and then goes on with his life....But it appears that Tim's video was a passport for a change in career from a shopkeeper to a regular 'guest' on the UFO circuit!...It may be nothing , I know...but imo, it is still something to consider?

It may very well turn out to be that Tim Edwards filmed a extraterrestrial mother-ship back in 1995 ...and I think that you already know where I stand on the ETH...But for me the jury's still out on those "roast potatoes" in this case Zoser!

Cheers buddy.

I don't believe a word of it; the words of just another skeptic looking for a peg to hang his coat on. His daughter lied too? Come on no way. That little girl was telling no lies on that clip. Other people saw it, and the evidence is there.

Did Tim have any more batteries to hand? How did he hoax it? What about the other witnesses?

Your case against him is as weak as a kitten; all claim and no substance. I've seen that before from a skeptic.

Edited by zoser

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Thats a fact ! I was late every day of my caculus class and the best I can figure is that I came out way better without it ! They have little machines that do that now ! and ,E.T`s dont ever use theres to zip around,that would take all the fun out of crashing into NEw Mexico ! :alien::tu:

2489495-say_what.jpg

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...so I looked further!...but then I hit a stream of sites that made it overpoweringly obvious that 'Tom King' [skywatcher] was nothing but one of those despicable charlatans in ufology that I loath !...A Hoaxer!....

http://www.ufovideo.net/TomKing1.htm

so, I didn't bother to search for his 'smoking-gun' after that!

Hiya 1963, sorry to snip the majority just to focus in on this... but... excellent find there my friend. :tu:

This is the same guy who filmed one of the Phoenix Lights videos, later confirmed to be flares dropped over the BGR. I couldn't agree with you more regarding this character. Even after the truth of the flares was long exposed, he and one of his cohorts continued to rally against the conclusions claiming that their footage was not of the same event. You've categorized him exactly as is deserved; as a charlatan.

Cheers

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Hiya 1963, sorry to snip the majority just to focus in on this... but... excellent find there my friend. :tu:

This is the same guy who filmed one of the Phoenix Lights videos, later confirmed to be flares dropped over the BGR. I couldn't agree with you more regarding this character. Even after the truth of the flares was long exposed, he and one of his cohorts continued to rally against the conclusions claiming that their footage was not of the same event. You've categorized him exactly as is deserved; as a charlatan.

Cheers

No way. The flare theory is just a fanciful idea from a group of people who realise that their reality is crumbling around them in the face of irrefutable evidence and thousands of witnesses; and a concerned military desperate to find a cover story.

I just hope there are not too many folk gullible enough to swallow that garbage. If any one is interested in seeing a summary of the case against the flare theory, please look at my last post on the other forum.

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zoser shared some Tantalizing Testimony in another thread yesterday. I've found it to be so incredibly Tantalizing, in fact, that I think it should be shared here as well.

This was an incredible UFO sighting which took place in Phoenix back in April of 2008. We have jaw dropping eye witness testimony and even video footage. It's FANTASTIC!

Here, check out the incredible video.

Is that amazing or what? Here's a full transcript for those that can't watch the footage:

Transcript of video. Conversation between Stacy Elgin (SE) and iReporter Brad Drenning (BD).

SE:

Another strange sighting has a lot of people talking in Arizona. It's not the first time mysterious lights have been spotted hovering the night sky there, but this time we have pictures, and joining us now is IREPORTER Brad Drenning, who witnessed the whole thing, and took some incredible pictures, and it's the most viewed video EVER on our user generated community web site, ireport dot com.

Hi Brad, are you there?

BD:

Yeah, I'm here. How are you today?

SE:

Hi, I'm great thank you. First off, thank you so much for taking the pictures and sharing them with us. I want you to tell us, how did it all go down? Just tell us about what happened last night.

BD:

My family and I were watching television last evening just after dinner. Uhh, My son, David Drenning, one of his friends, Kyle, called and he said, "Hey, there's some lights outside. You need to go check 'em out."

And we walked outside, and we looked up, and it was just kind of, you know, total amazement. We looked at it for quite a while. I ran in, I'm a big CNN watcher, ran in, I grabbed my camera and we started filming, you know, right away. So...

It was just amazing, it's hard to even describe. Uhh, you know, but they just sat there. They didn't move. They stayed in one position as far as in the same area.

SE:

Uh, huh.

BD:

And then they just started making different formations. So, it was very hard to explain, but very exciting all at the same time, and I think you can hear that from the video.

SE:

Right, we could hear your children talking in the background too. Could you hear any types of noises coming from these lights?

BD:

We couldn't hear any noises. They were very far away. I mean they, there was a plane in the video that you can see that it was probably 30 or 40 thousand feet lower than what we were able to... the lights were way up there, I don't know how to explain that.

SE:

So, when you say they were in formation... okay, we're watching some video now, I don't know if you can see it... but they kind of move apart, and they kinda come back together... What did you think when you saw this?

BD:

Well, um, like I say... at first they were in a straight line. When we first... before we got the camera. And then they started moving into different formations. I actually am working with some of your folks there in Atlanta right now. I'm downloading another almost eleven minutes of video from the same situation there. And, um, they moved in different formations; trapezoids, square, kind of a "W", and then it moved into a diamond, so it was very specific type formations. And then, one by one they started to blink... and one would take off, and then another, you know, very systematically. And then the fourth and final one stayed up there for about another 4 or 5 minutes on its own.

SE:

Mhmm, well of course you probably heard the military came out today and said they had no type of aircraft in the area or were doing any exercises there. I'm sure you heard that. Have you lived in Phoenix very long?

BD:

We've been in Phoenix for about eight years.

SE:

Okay, have you ever seen anything like this? Because you know a lot of people have said they have seen things such as this before.

BD:

I have never witnessed anything like this before. We've heard all the different, you know, situations and stories if you will. But this was the first time we were, we actually witnessed something of this nature.

SE:

Has anybody from the military tried to contact you to get your video and see what it is?

BD:

Actually no. Noone from the military has contacted me. There's been several different media outlets, if you will, that have been contacting me all morning, but nothing from the military as of yet.

SE:

Now, if you had to say what it is, would you say it's a UFO?

BD:

You know what... I know... In my opinion...

SE:

That's a tough question, I don't mean to put you on the spot.

BD:

No that's okay. In my opinion, there's no way it could be some type of flare. It had to be something other, because like I said they stay in one area, they didn't drift off, and they made very specific formations. So it was something that's very hard to explain... A UFO... very...

SE:

Right

BD:

Very... interesting.

SE:

Yeah, it's almost one of those things you definitely have to see to believe, and...

BD:

Exactly

SE:

...that's what we're doing right now through your video, and we really appreciate you sharing that story with us, again, Brad Drenning from Phoenix Arizona, one of our iReporters... And hey if you see anything else, please be sure to send it again. Thank you for joining us.

BD:

I sure will. Thank you.

For those that don't want to read through the whole thing, here are just some hi-lights from the full transcript.

This is Brad Drenning. Here we have a guy who is as credible as they come. He's a family man. He's genuine. He's sincere. He's supported by other witnesses and even video footage. He seems totally trustworthy, without even a hint of dishonesty coming from this man. He comes across as very intelligent, well spoken, and downright likeable. You couldn't ask for a better UFO witness than this.

Listen to his descriptions of what he saw and filmed...

And we walked outside, and we looked up, and it was just kind of, you know, total amazement.

It was just amazing, it's hard to even describe. Uhh, you know, but they just sat there. They didn't move. They stayed in one position as far as in the same area.

And then they just started making different formations. So, it was very hard to explain, but very exciting all at the same time, and I think you can hear that from the video.

they moved in different formations; trapezoids, square, kind of a "W", and then it moved into a diamond, so it was very specific type formations.

These statements are an indication of how much this sighting struck him and his whole family, and his descriptions of the formations are suggestive of some kind of possible intelligence or purpose. How many other UFO witnesses have described traits like these? A lot of them, I dare say.

How did he describe the end of the sighting?

And then, one by one they started to blink... and one would
take off
, and then another, you know, very systematically. And then the fourth and final one stayed up there for about another 4 or 5 minutes on its own.

Did you hear that? He actually used the words "take off"... What is the significance of this? Did he perceive them as literally "taking off" and flying away or something? That's pretty amazing.

And his conclusion?

In my opinion, there's no way it could be some type of flare. It had to be something other, because like I said they stay in one area, they didn't drift off, and they made very specific formations. So it was something that's very hard to explain...

No, I don't think we could ask for a better UFO witness than this. Fantastic guy. Fantastic footage. Fantastic interview. My hat is off to Brad. :tu:

Of course, the only problem with any of this is that the entire thing was a hoax perpetrated by lighting off some flares, tying them to some balloons, and letting them fly off into the sky.

What valuable and important lessons can we learn from this?

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The irony of which is simply astounding.

I really haven't got time to play Boon. Sorry.

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have you opened a fresh can of Irony recently, boon?

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have you opened a fresh can of Irony recently, boon?

Irony helps get the wrinkley out of my clothesy. :P

Not sure what you mean though 747. Would you care to expand on this?

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Irony helps get the wrinkley out of my clothesy. :P

Not sure what you mean though 747. Would you care to expand on this?

That tantalising testinomy -testin- testimony on the previous page.

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No way. The flare theory is just a fanciful idea from a group of people who realise that their reality is crumbling around them in the face of irrefutable evidence and thousands of witnesses; and a concerned military desperate to find a cover story.

I just hope there are not too many folk gullible enough to swallow that garbage. If any one is interested in seeing a summary of the case against the flare theory, please look at my last post on the other forum.

I certainly do hope people take your advice and have a peek at your post in the other thread, and the responses to it...

I haven't posted this for a while. This is a composite of the last part of the famous Phoenix Lights footage and a daytime overlay from the same perspective, sped up to illustrate at which points the lights disappeared.

phoenixflaresRibbon733x115.gif

ET space ship over the city of Phoenix?

:geek:

I really haven't got time to play Boon. Sorry.

No problem zoser. Say, when you have an opportunity, given your mathematical prowess and all, can you explain to me in simple terms what all of the mathematical mumbo jumbo in this link means?

Thanks! :D

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New Hampshire - 1961

Tantalizing Testimony would be incomplete without this one. The seminal UFO case of all time. I find it totally awe inspiring.

The story of Betty and Barney Hill begins in September 1961, in the state of New Hampshire. Barney had recently developed an ulcer, and he and his wife Betty decided to take a short vacation to Canada. The couple had visited Niagara Falls, and Montreal, and on the 19th of the month, they began their journey back home to Portsmouth.

The night was clear, with a crescent moon shining on the heavily wooded landscape that surrounded US Route 3 in the central part of New Hampshire.

At about a quarter past 10:00 PM, three miles south of the city of Lancaster, Barney noticed what appeared to be a bright star, or planet, which seemed to move erratically. Barney pointed this out to Betty, and they both began to keep track of the object.

The couple began to believe that they were watching a plane appear and disappear, as the movement of their vehicle caused the trees to come and go in obstructing their view. Later, Barney would state that he tried to convince himself that the object was a plane, but that Betty thought it to be something else - an unidentified craft of some kind.

As the two continued to the Flume, just north of North Woodstock, the object appeared to move in an odd way.

As they reached Indian Head, Barney actually stopped the car to have a look at the object with his binoculars. He saw multi-colored lights, and rows of windows on a flat-shaped object, which now seemed to be moving toward him.

As the object moved to within a hundred feet of him, he could see occupants inside. Frightened, he ran back to his car where Betty waited. They climbed inside and sped away. Soon, two hours of their lives would vanish into oblivion.

After resuming their journey home, they were not able to see the strange craft anymore. Oddly though, they heard a beeping sound. They then heard the beeping a second time, noticing that they were suddenly thirty-five miles farther down the road than a minute or two ago. They were now in Ashla.

The mood in the car was quiet as they proceeded home and went to bed. They both slept until the next afternoon. When Betty got up, she called her sister Janet, and told her what had happened. Janet told her to call nearby Pease Air Force Base, and report what she had seen.

Betty reported the incident, speaking to Major Paul W. Henderson, who told Betty; "The UFO was also confirmed by our radar." It is important to note at this point that Barney was against calling the sighting in to the base, hoping to keep it quiet.

At this time, neither Betty nor Barney recalled any abduction. Soon, however, Betty began having nightmarish dreams of her and her husband being taken aboard a craft of some kind, against their will. In a matter of weeks, two writers got wind of the story, and after interviewing the Hills, made an intensive log of the events of the night.

They discovered that there were two hours of unaccounted time in the Hill's story, even allowing for stops for the Hills, and breaks for their dog, who also had made the trip with them.

Another interesting note that I should interject here is that these "two writers," which are mentioned in almost every report of this incident, (and there are literally thousands of them), have not been named, or I cannot find their names.

However, the story is true, because their interview was attended by Major James MacDonald, a former Air Force Intelligence Officer.

Shortly after Betty began having these disturbing dreams, she wrote a letter to Major Donald Kehoe, who passed her information on to one Walter Webb, who was on the staff of the Hayden Planetarium. Webb, at the time, was a scientific advisor for the National Investigations Committee on Arial Phenomena (commonly referred to as NICAP).

What he did with the report is unknown.

It was Major MacDonald who made the suggestion to the Hills that regressive hypnosis might account for the two hours of missing time. In the spring of 1962, the Hills contacted a psychiatrist about the hypnosis sessions, but decided to put it off for a time. All the while, Betty was still haunted by the dreams, and Barney's ulcer was worse, and he was again suffering from hypertension.

After dodging reporters, and doing some research on psychiatrists, the Hills made a decision to contact well-known Boston psychiatrist and neurologist, Dr. Benjamin Simon, who was one of the most respected doctors in his field.

After a couple of initial interviews, Dr. Simon's preliminary diagnosis was "anxiety syndrome," relating to the incidents of the night of September 19, 1961. His next step was to find out what those events were.

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Edited by zoser

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My friend and I saw 'something' once...years ago when I was 15yrs old....it frightened me so badly that I had nightmares for weeks and had be 'on guard' watching the skys...waiting for 'the big invasion'. I thought for sure would happen and I was terribly upset because I just wanted to live a normal life...grow up, get married, buy a house, have children..... I've done all that now, 'they' never came back...but I still have a fear regardless, afraid to walk alone at night 'just in case'. I wrote about my 'encounter' telling some UFO sight all about it a few years back through the internet...they wrote back telling me that they 'believed me' and it did feel good, because I know what I saw. THEN one day I was watching the TV series 'Haunted Canada' and low and behold my story was on their Show, played by 2 young girls...Crazy!

It wouldn't surprise me at all that this lady is telling true events. But...what to do but pray they don't come to invade us.

You can read my story online: >pararesearchers.org< Look under UFO Reports and read 'Amherstview 1979'.

Pinkladie

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That tantalising testinomy -testin- testimony on the previous page.

Priceless isn't it? I mean seriously. If that doesn't illustrate just how reliable even the most seemingly reliable of witnesses actually is, I don't know what else will. Brad Drenning is an awesome guy, and I don't want to give the wrong impression at all. I think he was totally sincere in every way and I think he's a very smart cookie. This just shows that anyone who witnesses something like this can come to completely incorrect conclusions and convey completely inaccurate details.

A big and important lesson to be learned there I think. :tu:

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New Hampshire - 1961

Part 2

The method of treatment that Dr. Simon chose for the Hills was regressive hypnosis, which was meant to get to the source of their problem, whatever that may have been. He began the sessions on Barney, and then followed up with the same treatment for Betty.

The process was slow, but after six months, it was Dr. Simon's expert opinion that the Hills had been abducted, and taken aboard an unknown flying craft on the night in question.

Anyone who is deeply interested in these sessions, can see transcripts of them in an excellent book on the entire Hill story, "The Interrupted Journey," written by award-winning investigative author John G. Fuller. The Hills' story was also included in a two-part article in "Look" magazine, and a movie, "The UFO Incident," a made-for-TV production. The movie was released in 1976, and starred Estelle Parsons as Betty, and James Earl Jones as Barney.

After the many sessions with Dr. Simon, the following details became evident. The Hills related that their car had stalled, and then the alien craft landed on the road in front of their vehicle, forming a kind of roadblock, hailing them down. They were taken into the craft, and given medical examinations by these aliens, and before being released, were ordered under hypnosis not to recount any of the details of their incident.

The entities were described by the Hills as "...bald-headed alien beings, about five foot tall, with greyish skin, pear shaped heads and slanting cat-like eyes."-- This was the very first mention in UFO folklore of the so-called "greys." The Hills were taken into separate rooms during their examinations. These "tests" involved both physical and mental procedures.

As part of these tests, skin, hair and nail samples were taken. Betty had a long needle inserted into her navel, and was told it was a pregnancy test. Under duress, Barney related that he had given a semen specimen. Betty stated that she was given a kind of book as a token of her visit, but this item was later taken back.

Another odd fact related under hypnosis was that the aliens seemed to have no conception of time, or of colors, whatever this may mean.

At one point, the aliens seemed surprised to find that Barney's teeth (dentures) could be removed and replaced. Betty asked one of her abductors where they were from, and in reply, she was shown a star map of sorts, which will be discussed in more detail later.

After these events, the Hills were taken back to their car, and the last thing they remembered was an orange glow disappearing into the night sky. It is very important to note that the Hills tried to keep these events out of the press, but unfortunately, an inaccurate version of the events was leaked to the press, after which, the Hills decided to come forward with the true events of the case.

Dr. Simon was under a great amount of pressure to release whatever information the Hills authorized about their case. This was considered prudent, not to exploit the story, but to stop speculation that the absence of a statement by him would seem to shed a negative light on the Hills' story. Simon concluded that the Hills were not fabricating their story.

He further stated that he there were several conclusions that could be reached. [1] "The experience actually happened, or, [2] some perceptive and illusory misinterpretations occurred in relationship to some real event." What the "real event" may be, I do not know.

As the facts of the Hills' case came to public knowledge, two notable, respectable professionals investigated the story, and made their conclusions. One was Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who was at the time, Professor of Astronomy at Northwestern University, and later to be an Air Force Consultant on Aerial Phenomena.

He eventually would create his own "Center For UFO studies." The other was Stanton T. Friedman, a nuclear physicist and the nation's only space scientist devoting full time to researching the UFO phenomenon.

As a consultant to Project Blue Book, Hynek later released the book, "The UFO Experience," in which he discussed the Hills' case. I will insert his own words here; "Under repeated hypnosis they independently revealed what had supposedly happened.

The two stories agreed in considerable detail, although neither Betty nor Barney was privy to what the other had said under hypnosis until much later.

Under hypnosis they stated that they had been taken separately aboard the craft, treated well by the occupants - rather as humans might treat experimental animals - and then released after having been given the hypnotic suggestion that they would remember nothing of that particular experience. The method of their release supposedly accounted for the amnesia, which was apparently broken only by counter hypnosis.

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My friend and I saw 'something' once...years ago when I was 15yrs old....it frightened me so badly that I had nightmares for weeks and had be 'on guard' watching the skys...waiting for 'the big invasion'. I thought for sure would happen and I was terribly upset because I just wanted to live a normal life...grow up, get married, buy a house, have children..... I've done all that now, 'they' never came back...but I still have a fear regardless, afraid to walk alone at night 'just in case'. I wrote about my 'encounter' telling some UFO sight all about it a few years back through the internet...they wrote back telling me that they 'believed me' and it did feel good, because I know what I saw. THEN one day I was watching the TV series 'Haunted Canada' and low and behold my story was on their Show, played by 2 young girls...Crazy!

It wouldn't surprise me at all that this lady is telling true events. But...what to do but pray they don't come to invade us.

You can read my story online: >pararesearchers.org< Look under UFO Reports and read 'Amherstview 1979'.

Pinkladie

Pretty amazing to experience something like that, huh? Thanks for sharing it.

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New Hampshire - 1961

Part 3

Dr. Stanton Friedman spent many long hours with the Hills, discussing the case, and being a nut and bolts man, issued this statement; "By no stretch of the imagination could anyone who knows them conclude that they were nuts," he emphasizes. The Hills had been interviewed and questioned by others scientists and investigators; some under hypnosis, and all are in agreement on one important fact.

The Hills did NOT make their story up, and the events put forward are based upon some REAL event. Although Barney and Betty were in an interracial marriage, which unfortunately cast an unfavorable shadow on them, we must remember that Betty had a Master's Degree in social work, and Barney served on the governor of New Hampshire's Civil Rights Commission.

Both of them were well-respected by those who knew them or worked with them. What benefit they could have gained from such an elaborate hoax I cannot imagine.

Although many so-called abductees have lost their livelihoods because of their stories, the Hills did not, and remained involved in previous activities to the extent that the interruptions of what happened allowed them.

As I mentioned earlier, when Betty was aboard the craft, she stated she was shown a star map, and was asked by one of the humanoids, "Where are you on the map?" to which she shrugged and said, "I don't know."

There has been an immense amount of discussion about the so-called "star map," and a lot of its interpretation is up for grabs. A full understanding of astronomy would be required to study its plotting and try to find its pattern in a specific point in the skies. I am certainly not qualified to undertake this task, but I will tell you what I consider some of the more reasonable explanations by professionals.

The map that Betty says she was shown was a three-dimensional view with different size dots and lines on it.

I vividly recall at the time of this incident, that the fact that scientists could not find any constellation that fit its markings, put much doubt on the Hills claims. However, approximately 8 years thereafter, when more powerful telescopes came into use, several scientists claim to have found a match for this map.

Being intrigued with the mystery of the map, (which Betty drew from hypnosis), an Ohio schoolteacher and amateur astronomer Marjorie Fish became involved in the case in 1969. Wondering if the stars and planets on the map would match any known celestial objects, Fish got an interview with Betty Hill in the summer of 1969.

Barney Hill had died earlier the same year from a cerebral hemorrhage. After a lengthy discussion with Betty, Fish released the following statement:

"On Aug. 4, 1969, Betty Hill discussed the star map with me. Betty explained that she drew the map in 1964 under posthypnotic suggestion. It was to be drawn only if she could remember it accurately, and she was not to pay attention to what she was drawing - which puts it in the realm of automatic drawing.

This is a way of getting at repressed or forgotten material and can result in unusual accuracy. She made two erasures showing her conscious mind took control part of the time.

Betty described the map as three-dimensional, like looking through a window.

The stars were tinted and glowed. The map material was flat and thin (not a model), and there were no noticeable lenticular lines like one of our three-dimensional processes. (It sounds very much like a reflective hologram.)"

Betty did not shift her position while viewing it, so we cannot tell if it would give the same three-dimensional view from all positions or if it would be completely three-dimensional. Betty estimated the map was approximately three feet wide and two feet high with the pattern covering most of the map.

She was standing about three feet away from it. She said there were many other stars on the map but she only (apparently) was able to specifically recall the prominent ones connected by lines and a small distinctive triangle off to the left.

There was no concentration of stars to indicate the Milky Way (galactic plane) suggesting that if it represented reality, it probably only contained local stars. There were no grid lines."

Three stars in the clusters were unknown until 1969. No Astronomer on earth knew their position in 1963.

Yet Betty Hill drew a map of these stars in 1963. Before I conclude this article, I must point out that I am not one given to shallow evidence from one webpage or a supermarket tabloid.

I am simply taking the role of reporter here, and offer no opinion of my own. Everything included in this article has been confirmed by many investigators, scientists, psychiatrists, etc. I will leave you this one fact:

Astronomers at Ohio State University had a computer put them in their exact position out beyond the double star system of Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta Reticuli 2--220 trillion miles, 37 light years from earth, looking toward our sun. The computer duplicated with virtually no variation, the map of Betty Hill.

The Betty and Barney Hill story is an intriguing one, to say the least.

Everyone privy to it's details is still in wonderment; still seeking answers. It is very difficult to believe that two sane people who were driving to their home, simultaneously had some illusion.

It is also difficult to believe that two well-liked and respected people would make up this story. To what end?

Certainly, they were not seeking public fame, it was about two years from the time of the incident until the time that the Hills made the facts known.

One important fact we must remember: NOT ONE of any of the professional people who had involvement in the case shed a negative light on the fact that something very unusual occurred that night in New Hampshire, or on the Hills personally.

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I have recently been overwhelmed with emails and stories about the experiences that abductees have gone through. Most people do not want their stories published out of concern of public ridicule or worse and that brings me to Tony Hernandez.

Tony came to me six years ago with a story of alien abduction and I brought him onto a local television program with me to discuss his experience. That appearance led to what he considers the ‘ruin of his life.’ I recently crossed paths with him and he gave me an update that he is allowing me to share with you, the readers. Here is his story:

tony-hernandez-150x150.jpg

“In 2003, I had an experience of abduction, but this had been going on throughout my life. I think that they marked me somehow and just kept picking me up when they needed me. My story is similar to many other abductees. I have lost time and vague memories or dreams of these beings experimenting on me. I went through the hypnotic regression and was able to pull some memories out and then things really began to click for me. I thought that the truth would set me free, and I began to talk about it. If this is happening across the board, the people need to know. It’s not fair to any of us that they just nab us when they want to. This is something that we should combat if we can. I really don’t care what the agenda is or what their motives are.

I was a police officer and dealt with some ridicule, but most of it was just whispers and a note left once in a while…poking fun at me. It began to get strange. The more that I got out there, the more that I would get these threatening phone calls. The more that I would find these dark cars and suits sitting outside of my house. I’m a god damn cop and I’m afraid for my life? It didn’t make sense. I went outside once to confront these men and the driver just had this cold smile. I will never forget it. I went back to my house and lived like I was under house arrest.

I get to work and they say that I was tied up in this illegal s%^t…I really can’t get into it too much because it’s still in the system, but they basically forced me to resign or go to prison for something that was a complete set up. The abductions are real and they are being kept under wraps for one reason or another by a government agency. I’m not sure if it’s the CIA or not, but that’s my first guess. Those ‘men in black’ that you have heard of do exist. I’ve seen them and despite the fact that I have been released from the force and that I have been under the radar, the calls have not ceased. I am very afraid at this point in my life.

I wish I had more to say, but if you hear that I have committed suicide, know that I have not. I have seen a lot of questionable deaths and if they have that in store for me, know that it’s bull****. Keep exploring and questioning. Alien abductions are real and the government is covering it up.”

http://ringsidereport.com/?p=23350

Edited by Sweetpumper
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My friend and I saw 'something' once...years ago when I was 15yrs old....it frightened me so badly that I had nightmares for weeks and had be 'on guard' watching the skys...waiting for 'the big invasion'. I thought for sure would happen and I was terribly upset because I just wanted to live a normal life...grow up, get married, buy a house, have children..... I've done all that now, 'they' never came back...but I still have a fear regardless, afraid to walk alone at night 'just in case'. I wrote about my 'encounter' telling some UFO sight all about it a few years back through the internet...they wrote back telling me that they 'believed me' and it did feel good, because I know what I saw. THEN one day I was watching the TV series 'Haunted Canada' and low and behold my story was on their Show, played by 2 young girls...Crazy!

It wouldn't surprise me at all that this lady is telling true events. But...what to do but pray they don't come to invade us.

You can read my story online: >pararesearchers.org< Look under UFO Reports and read 'Amherstview 1979'.

Pinkladie

Wow, that's a pretty incredible story. One thing is for sure, you didn't see any flares!

Thanks for sharing, it really is quite amazing. Would you say that it was shaped like a traditional flying saucer? Or more like an orb?

Pretty amazing to experience something like that, huh? Thanks for sharing it.

I know, right? That would sure shake me up too.

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tony-hernandez-150x150.jpg

“In 2003, I had an experience of abduction, but this had been going on throughout my life. I think that they marked me somehow and just kept picking me up when they needed me. My story is similar to many other abductees. I have lost time and vague memories or dreams of these beings experimenting on me. I went through the hypnotic regression and was able to pull some memories out and then things really began to click for me. I thought that the truth would set me free, and I began to talk about it. If this is happening across the board, the people need to know. It’s not fair to any of us that they just nab us when they want to. This is something that we should combat if we can. I really don’t care what the agenda is or what their motives are.

I was a police officer and dealt with some ridicule, but most of it was just whispers and a note left once in a while…poking fun at me. It began to get strange. The more that I got out there, the more that I would get these threatening phone calls. The more that I would find these dark cars and suits sitting outside of my house. I’m a god damn cop and I’m afraid for my life? It didn’t make sense. I went outside once to confront these men and the driver just had this cold smile. I will never forget it. I went back to my house and lived like I was under house arrest.

I get to work and they say that I was tied up in this illegal s%^t…I really can’t get into it too much because it’s still in the system, but they basically forced me to resign or go to prison for something that was a complete set up. The abductions are real and they are being kept under wraps for one reason or another by a government agency. I’m not sure if it’s the CIA or not, but that’s my first guess. Those ‘men in black’ that you have heard of do exist. I’ve seen them and despite the fact that I have been released from the force and that I have been under the radar, the calls have not ceased. I am very afraid at this point in my life.

I wish I had more to say, but if you hear that I have committed suicide, know that I have not. I have seen a lot of questionable deaths and if they have that in store for me, know that it’s bull****. Keep exploring and questioning. Alien abductions are real and the government is covering it up.”

http://ringsidereport.com/?p=23350

I'm a little leery of this one. If he was a cop one would think that he would have collected some kind of evidence about these Men in Black. Photographs, videos, other eye witnesses, etc...

Seems a bit far fetched to me actually. :hmm:

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Wow, that's a pretty incredible story. One thing is for sure, you didn't see any flares!

Thanks for sharing, it really is quite amazing. Would you say that it was shaped like a traditional flying saucer? Or more like an orb?

I know, right? That would sure shake me up too.

This was 'the traditional' saucer...but it was huge (the size of a football field) and only above the treetops...amazing that it was only us that saw it? It was silent...so silent that I wouldn't have noticed it, other then seeing the shadow slowly creep across the ground in front of me, when I was looking down. I have been over and over it in my mind...trying to make sense of it...there just isn't.

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This was 'the traditional' saucer...but it was huge (the size of a football field) and only above the treetops...amazing that it was only us that saw it? It was silent...so silent that I wouldn't have noticed it, other then seeing the shadow slowly creep across the ground in front of me, when I was looking down. I have been over and over it in my mind...trying to make sense of it...there just isn't.

Yeah, it really is very amazing indeed. The article I read said this took place in the Fall of 1979. Do you remember the actual date or even a close approximation? Do you remember about what time it was?

You mention that it covered you in a shadow. Was there a moon out? Do you remember what the weather was like? Cloud cover or anything like that?

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Priceless isn't it? I mean seriously. If that doesn't illustrate just how reliable even the most seemingly reliable of witnesses actually is, I don't know what else will. Brad Drenning is an awesome guy, and I don't want to give the wrong impression at all. I think he was totally sincere in every way and I think he's a very smart cookie. This just shows that anyone who witnesses something like this can come to completely incorrect conclusions and convey completely inaccurate details.

A big and important lesson to be learned there I think. :tu:

Yes...and the lesson is...that you think you know more about it than the person who had the experience..... :whistle:

And have got your heart set on......road flares as the answer.

Move over ordinary flares, there's a new hot flare in town>>>>>>ROAD FLARES :w00t:

Those road flares don't look like they are strong enough to create the kind of lights that Brad Drenning filmed.

And how would they be attached to the balloon....I expect they would get pretty hot because they would have to be tied

on upside down?

Or would a contraption have be made for it......

Even with the red glow...wouldn't those little road flares be more like pin pricks if they were so high..

and would hardly have got much notice, I would have thought...

Near the beginning Drenning says there was a plane underneath the lights he filmed (1:40) and they were 'way up there'...

[media=]

Edited by bee

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Yeah, it really is very amazing indeed. The article I read said this took place in the Fall of 1979. Do you remember the actual date or even a close approximation? Do you remember about what time it was?

You mention that it covered you in a shadow. Was there a moon out? Do you remember what the weather was like? Cloud cover or anything like that?

No...I cannot remember the actual date...to best answer your questions: I had just finished supper with my family, my friend came to call on me and we were cutting through the park (right by my house) on our way to hang around the stores for the evening. It was windy and chilly and dark outside...it had to still be around the supper hour because the people up in the house on the hill were inside eating around their table. Leaves were crunching under my feet...and blowing around the ground. Gosh...I think the moon was behind us? It was a fairly clear night....the odd dark cloud...but you could see the stars....cause afterwards with my parents, I was trying to point it out to them out our back yard.. in the distance. They came outside and we all were freezing...the wind was bad.

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No...I cannot remember the actual date...to best answer your questions: I had just finished supper with my family, my friend came to call on me and we were cutting through the park (right by my house) on our way to hang around the stores for the evening. It was windy and chilly and dark outside...it had to still be around the supper hour because the people up in the house on the hill were inside eating around their table. Leaves were crunching under my feet...and blowing around the ground. Gosh...I think the moon was behind us? It was a fairly clear night....the odd dark cloud...but you could see the stars....cause afterwards with my parents, I was trying to point it out to them out our back yard.. in the distance. They came outside and we all were freezing...the wind was bad.

Pretty amazing all around. I can see why you would feel shaken up by the whole thing. My jaw would drop just like your friends and I'd be tempted to run away screaming too! No joke there by the way. :blush:

Anyway, thanks for sharing. If any other details come to mind, please share those as well. It's too bad your friend isn't willing to come forward. I wonder if she remembers any other details.

Cheers. :)

And welcome to UM. :tu:

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Yes...and the lesson is...that you think you know more about it than the person who had the experience..... :whistle:

And have got your heart set on......road flares as the answer.

Move over ordinary flares, there's a new hot flare in town>>>>>>ROAD FLARES :w00t:

Those road flares don't look like they are strong enough to create the kind of lights that Brad Drenning filmed.

And how would they be attached to the balloon....I expect they would get pretty hot because they would have to be tied

on upside down?

Or would a contraption have be made for it......

Even with the red glow...wouldn't those little road flares be more like pin pricks if they were so high..

and would hardly have got much notice, I would have thought...

Near the beginning Drenning says there was a plane underneath the lights he filmed (1:40) and they were 'way up there'...

Maybe you're right bee? It does remind me an AWFUL LOT of another famous case. The footage looks very similar too. UFO Hunters even covered this case. It was witnessed by a lot of people, including a pilot and his family, who filmed the thing, and another witness described how it moved in a way that seemed to be under intelligent control. There are two parts to the UFO Hunters coverage and you can watch it here.

I look forward to your thoughts on it. :tu:

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