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Tantalising Testimony


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If you read the letter carefully, Hoover was in yet another bureaucratic tussle with the military and CIA which went on throughout the 1940s and 1950s, particularly when he thought they were trying to shut him out of information. He didn't like that when it came to UFOs or any other subject.

Needless to say, he really hated "Wild Bill" Donovan, who was the founder of OSS-CIA and regarded him as a major rival. This infighting was going on all the time.

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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Nice bit of reasoning and well answered. I also agree with MacG that these hoaxers are a sheer pain in the b**. This subject would be far easier to navigate if we didn't have to worry about them all the time.

Thanks zoser, and yes I agree that some hoaxers are indeed a pain the hind end. Some though have served to demonstrate some pretty important principles when assessing this phenomena, in particular with regards to eye witness testimony.

So how do you rate the O' Hare incident all things considered? Just curious.

Well, I did give some of my thoughts in a previous response to 1963 if you'd like to take a look. I think it was on the previous page.

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This thread is like the Bible, full of fantastic tales, and if you choose to, you can believe in them..... or not.

The debunkers spin the tales.

Believers just present concrete evidence. ;)

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It's following a typical rocket trajectory, in decent, with a tail plume indicating the burning of rocket fuel. It ain't no orange orb.

Yeap, but it looks like "orb" at some point, isn't it? Furthermore, launches in 1959 (Feb 17 in particular) were military, i.e. ICBM with payload delivery to Kura test range in Kamchatka, and as you know those "beauties" can reach altitudes of hundreds (700+) km.

Anyway, there is absolutely no evidence that "orbs" were seen on the night Dyatlov's team perished

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Yeap, but it looks like "orb" at some point, isn't it? Furthermore, launches in 1959 (Feb 17 in particular) were military, i.e. ICBM with payload delivery to Kura test range in Kamchatka, and as you know those "beauties" can reach altitudes of hundreds (700+) km.

Anyway, there is absolutely no evidence that "orbs" were seen on the night Dyatlov's team perished

Can we have an avatar pic from you please Mr B? Please feel free to choose from the wide range of images available on Google.

Edited by zoser
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Mexico City - 1991

On this day, July 11, 1991, a wave of UFO sightings began in Mexico.

These sightings, with the advent of the personal video camera, made the events that started that day the most documented UFO sightings in history.

There was a solar eclipse on that day, just like there will be today, giving reason to the citizens of Mexico to look toward the sky.

Hundreds of eyewitnesses reported seeing a bright object hover in the sky over Mexico City and surrounding areas. Some of those people even videotaped the phenomena.

Difficult to explain this one as the video's clearly show it to be a rapidly spinning object.

Here are some clips taken by different people in different locations:

The short video:

This version is less than 10 minutes and has a documentary style dialogue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IPaWwOsYCw

mexico1991.jpg

mexeclipseB.jpg

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Can we have an avatar pic from you please Mr B? Please feel free to choose from the wide range of images available on Google.

Whats wrong with my present avatar?

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Can I ask Boony do you believe that we are even being visited at all? Just curious

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Can I ask Boony do you believe that we are even being visited at all? Just curious

I believe that it is possible, but I've not seen any compelling reason to conclude that we are.

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I believe that it is possible, but I've not seen any compelling reason to conclude that we are.

Any thoughts on the Mexico sighting? I appreciate it's an old case. The things that catch me about it is that different footage exists and it's a rapidly spinning object. The footage is also reasonably clear so that even if we don't know what it is, we know what it isn't.

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Any thoughts on the Mexico sighting? I appreciate it's an old case. The things that catch me about it is that different footage exists and it's a rapidly spinning object. The footage is also reasonably clear so that even if we don't know what it is, we know what it isn't.

Which Mexico sighting exactly are you referring to?

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Which Mexico sighting exactly are you referring to?

Post 3632. I just watched them again; one is less than 2 mins, the other less than 10 mins. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that this is some of the best footage we have. Not the most exciting case, but the best evidence. Come on guys dip your bread in :alien:

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I believe that it is possible, but I've not seen any compelling reason to conclude that we are.

So you think all of the abduction cases are malarkey?

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So you think all of the abduction cases are malarkey?

They simply can't be. One of the most famous is the Linda Cortile case. Not her real name apparently but this was an abduction witnessed by many in the Manhattan area.

The most intriguing of all the abduction cases imho.

The following website belongs to a guy who has studied the case for years. A lot to digest at one go so you may wish to read selected chapters only to see if it arouses your interest.

http://www.lindacortilecase.com/

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Post 3632. I just watched them again; one is less than 2 mins, the other less than 10 mins. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that this is some of the best footage we have. Not the most exciting case, but the best evidence. Come on guys dip your bread in :alien:

I'll think about taking a look after work.

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I'll think about taking a look after work.

Cool; may not be on line for much longer, but will be back tomorrow. Would be nice to see some others pitching in on it too if it tickles their fancy. Best guess has to be an ET probe of some sort.

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Zoser that question was posed to Boony whether all the abduction cases are malarkey, I dont think he got a chance to answer yet

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So you think all of the abduction cases are malarkey?

I don't know if I'd phrase it like that, but let me put it this way... I don't see any compelling reason to believe that aliens are actually involved with any of these reports.

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So Boony can you give me an example of what else could possibly be involved with these reported abduction cases ?

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So Boony can you give me an example of what else could possibly be involved with these reported abduction cases ?

Sure thing.

There are many possible prosaic explanations. These could range from hoaxes, schizophrenia, sleep paralysis, repressed memories of physical or sexual abuse, developing tumors in the brain, mini-strokes, drug induced delusions, and probably a whole host of other things. Acknowledging those explanations as valid and worthy of consideration is arguably more important, in my opinion, than entertaining the possibility of genuine alien interaction. Some of those causes are actually very serious and need medical treatment, without which they could be permanently debilitating or even fatal.

That's why I wouldn't say that it is a bunch of malarkey, by the way. For a good number of the folks that report such things, I have little doubt that they truly have experienced something and often times it is something that is very real to them. That being said, the possibility of there being legitimate alien abductions is still open. On the same token I suppose we could say that the possibility of angel or demon visitation is still open as well, because that's how this phenomenon was frequently reported in the days of antiquity after all. I just find it unlikely and I think that ignoring the more prosaic possibilities is irresponsible at best, and sometimes even downright negligent.

Take the position held by much of UFOlogy for example. You think you've been abducted? Many in UFOlogy will suggest that you should go talk to a hypnotherapist and see if they can help you to uncover those hidden memories and extract more details about what happened... Horrible idea if you ask me. This is in fact the worst advice that anyone could follow in my opinion. These people don't need to risk having false memories implanted with these techniques, and make no mistake about it, that definitely happens. That isn't going to help at all. That's why I refer to these hypnotherapists as brain butchers.

Anyway, sorry for the rant there. You may have got more than you bargained for with that question... :P

Edited by booNyzarC
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Sure thing.

There are many possible prosaic explanations. These could range from hoaxes, schizophrenia, sleep paralysis, repressed memories of physical or sexual abuse, developing tumors in the brain, mini-strokes, drug induced delusions, and probably a whole host of other things. Acknowledging those explanations as valid and worthy of consideration is arguably more important, in my opinion, than entertaining the possibility of genuine alien interaction. Some of those causes are actually very serious and need medical treatment, without which they could be permanently debilitating or even fatal.

That's why I wouldn't say that it is a bunch of malarkey, by the way. For a good number of the folks that report such things, I have little doubt that they truly have experienced something and often times it is something that is very real to them. That being said, the possibility of there being legitimate alien abductions is still open. On the same token I suppose we could say that the possibility of angel or demon visitation is still open as well, because that's how this phenomenon was frequently reported in the days of antiquity after all. I just find it unlikely and I think that ignoring the more prosaic possibilities is irresponsible at best, and sometimes even downright negligent.

Take the position held by much of UFOlogy for example. You think you've been abducted? Many in UFOlogy will suggest that you should go talk to a hypnotherapist and see if they can help you to uncover those hidden memories and extract more details about what happened... Horrible idea if you ask me. This is in fact the worst advice that anyone could follow in my opinion. These people don't need to risk having false memories implanted with these techniques, and make no mistake about it, that definitely happens. That isn't going to help at all. That's why I refer to these hypnotherapists as brain butchers.

Anyway, sorry for the rant there. You may have got more than you bargained for with that question... :P

No its totally fine, Iv never heard of Hypnotherapist implanting false memories though but its like I said I learn something new on this forum everyday. But I understand what your saying. What did you think of the Travis Walton case ??

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No its totally fine, Iv never heard of Hypnotherapist implanting false memories though but its like I said I learn something new on this forum everyday. But I understand what your saying. What did you think of the Travis Walton case ??

Travis Walton is a tough call for me.

I've gone from completely believing his account, to thinking he was a lying hoaxer, to wondering if he might be genuine, and back through the full cycle time and again. Right now I don't know what to think. Given his relatively stable life after the events in question, I don't think he falls into any of the health related explanations that I listed above (and some which I didn't list), which leaves three possibilities in my opinion. It was a hoax, it was real, or someone convinced him and the guys that were with him that it was real.

Honestly, he's one of the most credible abduction claimants that I've ever looked into. He seems like an honest guy, he seems to genuinely believe what he is saying, and his story is corroborated by other witnesses that I also find very credible and who have never wavered in their descriptions to my knowledge. Plus it was a one time event which makes it far more believable to me than those who claim a lifetime of ongoing abduction experiences.

If you can't tell, I really want to believe this one.

The issues that bring me back to a more skeptical position... I'll leave out for now. With one exception.

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Travis Walton is a tough call for me.

I've gone from completely believing his account, to thinking he was a lying hoaxer, to wondering if he might be genuine, and back through the full cycle time and again. Right now I don't know what to think. Given his relatively stable life after the events in question, I don't think he falls into any of the health related explanations that I listed above (and some which I didn't list), which leaves three possibilities in my opinion. It was a hoax, it was real, or someone convinced him and the guys that were with him that it was real.

Honestly, he's one of the most credible abduction claimants that I've ever looked into. He seems like an honest guy, he seems to genuinely believe what he is saying, and his story is corroborated by other witnesses that I also find very credible and who have never wavered in their descriptions to my knowledge. Plus it was a one time event which makes it far more believable to me than those who claim a lifetime of ongoing abduction experiences.

If you can't tell, I really want to believe this one.

The issues that bring me back to a more skeptical position... I'll leave out for now. With one exception.

I find him believable not to mention all of the fear that shows on his face when he's telling his story. Also they were all given lie detector tests and all of them passed. Now if it was a hoax I would think that the lie detector test would prove that.

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