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zoser

Tantalising Testimony

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Speaking of UFOs,...

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Posted (edited)

Here is another one. The date is 1953 and Kelly Johnson is a famous aviation scientist with an interesting story to tell:

Edited by zoser
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And in turn you make a good point, we are driven by emotion at times, but I think a more curbing factor with science is ethics. It strikes me that ethically an advanced species is unlikely to "beat around the bush" so to speak. But overall, just coming here makes no sense to me. I see what you are saying, and in fact I agree that alien visitation is very plausible, I just do not believe sufficient proof has been uncovered to confirm that as fact. I find our effort with the Orion Project back in the late 50's a strong indicator that a determined species could wander space, but logically, I feel it make a great deal more sense to make contact via communications with another intelligent species as opposed to observing them. That eliminates the need for massive resources, negates threat to life, and is at the speed of light. And if you really wanted to look at an agressive species, you would know by contact, and then be able to observe from a safe distance. I just find logic dictates that something like the WOW! signal is far more likely to be first contact than an abduction type scenario or some alien buzzing an innocent being.

If I was put in charge of contacting an alien species, I would probably send a satellite out on the fastest possible route to the edge of the solar system, and try to use it as a relay of sorts to expand our ranges.

What I find maddening about 99% of cases is that we have to imagine reasons why some anomaly is an alien in hiding, or why that strange RADAR return is surely an alien. We create the situation, nearly always, there is no reason to think Alien, it is just an easy out to point at a higher power,and man is famous for doing that, right back as far as Zeus trowing lighting bolts. Add to that the charlatans and snake oil salesmen, and even just those seeking attention, and the field has an extremely dubious side to it, which is what I remain vigilant of. If anything, it is very saddening to see so many people out there using this phenomena to their own advantage.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't believe the Earth is being visited by ET or that it ever was, there isn't enough evidence for that and looking at distance/time/technology issues, it seems even less likely. What I meant was that some of the stories are possible, just like the chances of ET visiting us right now, however small those chances are. Communication would be the most logical means to study a new civilization and even if there is an alien civilization out there that's more advanced than us, I don't think they'd be advanced enough to be capable of interstellar travel, but that's just my opinion of course. The only scenario where the abductions and sightings would fit is the one where aliens are here and they're so far ahead of us that they can come and go as they please, and they don't feel like we could be any threat to them even if we wanted to. I'm sure you'll agree with me if I say it's extremely unlikely, but we can't say it's absolutely impossible either. As for the fake cases and charlatans, if I had to guess I'd say 95% of the stories are just human imagination.

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Visitation real or not,... I simply can NOT stand Stanton Friedman.

This is a charlatan, and if anyone, he belongs in the UFO Hall of Shame.

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Visitation real or not,... I simply can NOT stand Stanton Friedman.

This is a charlatan, and if anyone, he belongs in the UFO Hall of Shame.

Never mind about Stan the man, What about Kelly Johnson?

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Never mind about Stan the man, What about Kelly Johnson?

What about him?

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What about him?

Credible or not? What about the other witness that allowed the craft's position to be triangulated?

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I have no idea what they saw, but I do know this,... Kelly Johnson (on the ground) was a true believer in flying saucers before that 1953 sighting and (the pilot) Roy Wimmer mentioned that he had seen " mysterious lights" over Santa Catalina Island years earlier.

Im saying that this sighting would have been more interesting if they werent already "believers".

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If were talking "Kelly Johnson" Were talking the King of Dark projects,and most likely had a bit of a very balanced mind on all things aerospace and aviation ! He was one of our greatest !

I wouldnt count him out as far as seeing something very strange that night !

But as time flys by its own rules and limits ,We can only Keep Looking up!

My money is still on the facts are still not in ! :innocent:

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Does anyone have a recent example of where UFO's have landed and people have seen them close up or relatively close? It looks to me as if there are a lot of cases like this from the 60's and 70's but the nearer to our time we go the less we find. Can anyone corroborate this?

It looks to me then as if this was a phenomena of those times. I haven't heard of any close encounter landings recently either; so there we seem to have a trend. I wonder why this is? When I saw how Edwin Fuhr described the may small craft that he saw and how he said they were spinning, it made me think that they were perhaps charging up somehow. Spinning draws things in, like electric motors. The same with the Kansas UFO; again spinning. I would be interested to know if Travis Walton's craft was also doing the same.

One speculation could be that somehow UFO's no longer need to land to get their energy; they now get it from higher in the atmosphere?

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Another classic UFO case from 1964: Police officer Lonnie Zamora is pursuing a speeding car when he encounters a craft that lands. The craft leaves landing marks and an investigation is ordered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-g61zJ6I8

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Posted (edited)

Lonnie Zamora famous UFO story a hoax?

http://ufocon.blogsp...amous-1964.html

Edited by Hazzard

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Lonnie Zamora famous UFO story a hoax?

http://ufocon.blogsp...amous-1964.html

No I don't think it was; too much evidence for it.

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No I don't think it was; too much evidence for it.

Of course you dont.

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Dont thinks theres too much out there yet ! But Keep Looking !

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I take it we won't be seeing you on this thread again then?

Wishful thinking?

Scared?

I am having a nice conversation with others, would you refuse me that would you, just so that you can talk about solved mysteries that were never mysteries?

Didn't think I would know those cases of the top of my head did you. Don't blame me for you lack of research and lousy presentations. Most of them have already been countered here. Do you ever look at a case before you present it? Dead set, after that lengthy thread, I cannot believe you put that Buzz Aldrin clip up Zoser. It's like a 65 page thread right here, how on earth did you manage to miss it? Buzz himself says the report is rubbish and he was taken out of context. It is not hard to find these things you know. Particularly that example.

Actually considering you promoted the Aztec Hoax as a genuine mystery I probably should not be so surprised should I? :rolleyes:

Try harder Zoser. this thread had potential until you put that sordid rubbish up. It is not hard to have a look at a case to see if it is an obvious hoax or not. In this case, you never had to leave UM.

And they are not documentaries. That too, does not look good for your credibility. Just a helpful hint there.

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Oh don't get me wrong, I don't believe the Earth is being visited by ET or that it ever was, there isn't enough evidence for that and looking at distance/time/technology issues, it seems even less likely. What I meant was that some of the stories are possible, just like the chances of ET visiting us right now, however small those chances are. Communication would be the most logical means to study a new civilization and even if there is an alien civilization out there that's more advanced than us, I don't think they'd be advanced enough to be capable of interstellar travel, but that's just my opinion of course. The only scenario where the abductions and sightings would fit is the one where aliens are here and they're so far ahead of us that they can come and go as they please, and they don't feel like we could be any threat to them even if we wanted to. I'm sure you'll agree with me if I say it's extremely unlikely, but we can't say it's absolutely impossible either. As for the fake cases and charlatans, if I had to guess I'd say 95% of the stories are just human imagination.

Hi Lcvec

We most certainly are on the same page, I agree, that is what keep me coming back, I keep hoping something that canot be refuted will show up, but it strikes me as maddening as to the lengths some will go to try and create a scenario to shoehorn ET in. I really think if we do get, or have ever had a visit, that information will not be so cryptic. There are so many markers right down to an isotopic level that distinctively tell us if something is from another place in the Universe, like meteors and comets. We have the means, it should not be so long winded and hard to come up with an explanation. That 99.9% of the time these happenings have a prosaic explanation explains my more skeptical standpoint. Then you get guys like Zoser that try to make prosaic explanation seem unlikely only to be replaced with a far more elaborate, unsupported idea that really is not more than a musing, and simply feels people should just accept this as fact at face value. I just take in my face BS as a challenge, and every time someone tries to BS me, I just have to say "really now?" And then present the factual information to counter. That being said I finds personal belief more than fine, and accept that a personal encounter would be very compelling, but having not seen something that I would call an ET craft, whilst having seen 2 UFO's in my life, makes it hard to understand the conviction from my perspective. People like D and McG, I find more compelling than a dozen Roswells. They really make me scratch my head to be honest.

I reckon Interstellar travel is quite possible, but I think it would be a huge loud noisy machine that we would see coming from a very long way away, and with space being what it is, I would expect a call that is something like "can we stop in and top up supplies?" We had our own plans which were quite viable back as far as the late 50's - LINK The Orion Project. I think if we could do it, others can, but I feel Orion puts some perspective on just what Deep Space travel would be like, and it is nothing like the zippy little sports saucers that we see in Sci Fi all the time.

Cheers

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Credible or not? What about the other witness that allowed the craft's position to be triangulated?

Funny that you should mention triangulation when you avoid it like a nasty disease where the Phoenix lights are concerned.

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Funny that you should mention triangulation when you avoid it like a nasty disease where the Phoenix lights are concerned.

Cherry picking at its finest. :tsu:

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Posted (edited)

Lonnie Zamora famous UFO story a hoax?

Evan our good friend Major Hector Quntanilla at Project Blue Book, whose orders were to slap some kind of explanation on every UFO report, could not find any explanation for Zamora's sighting. No one ever will, in my opinion.

Edited by TheMcGuffin

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Wishful thinking?

Scared?

I am having a nice conversation with others, would you refuse me that would you, just so that you can talk about solved mysteries that were never mysteries?

Didn't think I would know those cases of the top of my head did you. Don't blame me for you lack of research and lousy presentations. Most of them have already been countered here. Do you ever look at a case before you present it? Dead set, after that lengthy thread, I cannot believe you put that Buzz Aldrin clip up Zoser. It's like a 65 page thread right here, how on earth did you manage to miss it? Buzz himself says the report is rubbish and he was taken out of context. It is not hard to find these things you know. Particularly that example.

Actually considering you promoted the Aztec Hoax as a genuine mystery I probably should not be so surprised should I? :rolleyes:

Try harder Zoser. this thread had potential until you put that sordid rubbish up. It is not hard to have a look at a case to see if it is an obvious hoax or not. In this case, you never had to leave UM.

And they are not documentaries. That too, does not look good for your credibility. Just a helpful hint there.

Any discussion welcome :yes: It's just that you didn't seem too happy with the thread?

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Evan our good friend Major Hector Quntanilla at Project Blue Book, whose orders were to slap some kind of explanation on every UFO report, could not find any explanation for Zamora's sighting. No one ever will, in my opinion.

That goes for lots of these UFO cases..... Unexplained, however, is far from proof of ET visitation.

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That goes for lots of these UFO cases..... Unexplained, however, is far from proof of ET visitation.

Then what is it? Hard to believe that in 1964 the USAF possessed that technology. Was Area 51 even built then?

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Then what is it? Hard to believe that in 1964 the USAF possessed that technology. Was Area 51 even built then?

Its UNEXPLAINED......Thats it. We might never get the answer. We can speculate all we want, but that means nothing.

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Posted (edited)

Its UNEXPLAINED......Thats it. We might never get the answer. We can speculate all we want, but that means nothing.

He saw two bods in suits walking around outside of he craft. The landing gear left marks on the ground unidentifiable as any known craft, Another witness reported an oval shaped craft flying low over his car that day that matched the description of Zamora's craft. Not much else it could really be? :alien:

Interestingly he described a heat from below the craft as it took off; by no means silently. Beginning to wonder if the Cash Landrum craft was one of a kind.

Edited by zoser
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