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zoser

Tantalising Testimony

5,543 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I have to admit, I find the distance problem quite a hurdle to overcome. I believe it certainly can be overcome, but I do not think it is as easy as most people like to think. I feel shows like Star Trek, and even the better space documentaries with brilliant CGI have desensitised most people to understanding the vastness of space. Nobody can just pop over to another solar system in hours, and physics being uniform across space there is no reason why things would be different on another planet. Many cite tings like the Alcubiere drive, yet not understanding an ounce of the physics behind it, or why it only works on TV. In fact the shows with wormholes and so forth give such impressions that the recent failed rockets lead people to believe this is what a wormhole would look like, and under such premise many fight tooth and nail to attempt to prove such a musing is right, all the while being ignorant of the fact that a wormhole would not look anything like that. I think there are quite some arguments to overcome from a rational point of view that some think can be answered by simply pointing at the heavens. This is where the phenomena's credibility goes right off the rails in the hands of zealous proponents. Transparency is the only way to overcome this.

I suspect that we may be dealing with a totally different order of technology here, not just one that has more advanced computers, alloys and relays than ours, but qualitatively different. I think we're talking about a radically different kind of culture and mentality, with great powers of mind that are far beyond ours. They aren't just like us but only a few hundred or few thousand years more advanced.

The difference is more like that of the culture and mentality of this planet that existed in the Middle Ages versus the one that came into being with the Scientific Revolution and Industrial Revolution, and so on. It wasn't just that they improved on the machines that already existed but invented totally new ones that hadn't been thought of before. This also required a cultural revolution, a revolution in ideas and mentality that created a civilization of a totally different order than what had gone before.

Then of course the aliens are going to be products of a different biology and environment than ours. That makes it even more complicated.

Edited by TheMacGuffin

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Well, UFOs weren't the main thing that I did in the Army either, although when I started and for many years afterward the main threat was considered to be the Soviet Union and we spent much of our time training and preparing for an attack on West Germany, which was expected to escalate into nuclear war. That was the main threat anyway, although there were other things that were on the periphery as well.

I'm just trying to tell you what I saw and what I experienced with my own UFO sighting--and afterward--and I have no earthly reason to lie about it. I can also tell you that if anything has been covered up, it's that these things really exist. Believe it or not, I can't help that.

And I've met scientists, too, but in my experience some of them really do have a lot more information about UFOs than others--far more than has ever been "shared" with most of their colleagues. There are reasons for that, as I have mentioned from time to time.

I completely respect that and that is why I really do not want to get into a discussion about that. On a discussion board like this all we have to offer is what we can substantiate. That does not mean that I do not respect your personal experiences, but in the end, I can only relate to what I can I independently verify. I hope you understand what I mean with that.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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In this age of computer-enhanced images and manipulation, I also know enough to be leery of "leaked pictures", like this one that cropped up on the Internet last year. If any of these pictures was the real thing, how would we know it in the midst of so many fakes?

img_3055_101-dead-alien-bodys-from-roswell-ufo-crash-hq-leaked-2011-hd.jpg

0.jpg

Or are they just puppets made for a movie or an X-Files episode, as some people have claimed? No matter whether they were real or not, there would always be plenty of people coming along to muddy up the waters.

Those are some crazy pictures McG! I haven't seen them before... damn good effects if they aren't real. And if they are real, what exactly are they supposed to be and from when/where?

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Posted (edited)

Those are some crazy pictures McG! I haven't seen them before... damn good effects if they aren't real. And if they are real, what exactly are they supposed to be and from when/where?

I wish I knew, Boon, but I just can't say for sure. I can't swear that it's real, or where it was taken, but it seems to have popped up on the Internet from God knows where. If it's real, it may be from a military base somewhere, but I really don't know.

From the pictures I saw in the lecture in the Army, I would say that three "occupants" looked something like this. It's pretty close, anyway, unlike the picture of the "grays", which have heads and eyes that are far too big compared to what I saw in the pictures.

I'm not endorsing the source of this picture, either--whoever really prepared this model--but only saying that it looks similar to what I saw. Here again, though, I think the forehead and the upper part of the cranium are a little too big compared to the pictures I saw, at least as I recall them.

Eben2.jpg

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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I can safely assure all of you that there were no dirigibles flying at that altitude or anywhere near it, not in 1962 or any other time. I just took that "explanation" as a joke.

It was not an explanation for that case, it was that Zoser said that NO cylindrical objects existed that could fly in 1962, That is patently wrong. However, considering dirigibles, what I do not know is the altitude of the objects, just that of the pilot and it does not see to be forthcoming. However, if the object is considered to be of significant size, enough to enter the realm of a craft, his description says it was the size of his hand, so if it was below him, it was a long way under him I would say. If it was beside him, again, was it at his height? And could not curvature of the earth with some distance make that an object also below him? It was not above him because he looked out of the window, he did not say he looked up out of the cockpit, so logic dictates it was beside, or below him, and at distance. Not at the height he was flying at.

His description is bewildering as well I find, something that looked like a piece of paper? It sounds a bit like a chaff description to be honest.

bobwhitetimesartticle.png

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I suspect that we may be dealing with a totally different order of technology here, not just one that has more advanced computers, alloys and relays than ours, but qualitatively different. I think we're talking about a radically different kind of culture and mentality, with great powers of mind that are far beyond ours. They aren't just like us but only a few hundred or few thousand years more advanced.

The difference is more like that of the culture and mentality of this planet that existed in the Middle Ages versus the one that came into being with the Scientific Revolution and Industrial Revolution, and so on. It wasn't just that they improved on the machines that already existed but invented totally new ones that hadn't been thought of before. This also required a cultural revolution, a revolution in ideas and mentality that created a civilization of a totally different order than what had gone before.

Then of course the aliens are going to be products of a different biology and environment than ours. That makes it even more complicated.

That seems a perfectly plausible scenario, certainly as plausible as anything else being considered, however, does this not mean that any physical trace should stand out like a sore thumb? It beggars belief that people like Chuck Wade and Frank Kimbler claim to have ET artifact's when all they be is lumps of metal with unusual amounts of alloys. When we are considering high intelligence I do not see the connection. It strikes me that even a candy bar wrapper from another planet thousand of years in advance would be more than noticeable. As such, if many very advanced species visit, should there not be something rather solid in the way of evidences by now?

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As such, if many very advanced species visit, should there not be something rather solid in the way of evidences by now?

Well as you know, I was told that there is, and I have no reason to doubt it.

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Posted (edited)

It was not an explanation for that case, it was that Zoser said that NO cylindrical objects existed that could fly in 1962, That is patently wrong. However, considering dirigibles, what I do not know is the altitude of the objects, just that of the pilot and it does not see to be forthcoming.

In one of his sightings in 1962, Joseph Walker filmed two UFOs that approached the X-15 from behind and then passed ABOVE his aircraft, about 100-200 feet above him, and he was flying at 200,000 feet at a speed of over 3,000 MPH. Whatever these craft were, they flew faster and higher than anything we had at the time

x15210.jpg

Edited by TheMacGuffin

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Posted (edited)

For what it's worth, I do think we can rule out dirigibles and balloons flying at over 3,000 MPH and leaving our fastest aircraft in the dust, so to speak. In my opinion, those UFOs were some kind of craft from a civilization far more advanced than ours, but at least we got 'em on film as they were flying by to say 'hello'. LOL.

Edited by TheMacGuffin

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For what it's worth, I do think we can rule dirigibles and balloons flying at over 3,000 MPH and leaving our fastest aircraft in the dust, so to speak. In my opinion, those UFOs were some kind of craft from a civilization far more advanced than ours, but at least we got 'em on film as they were flying by to say 'hello'. LOL.

Indeed, I do not think you would expect me to say that such would happen.

But where is the film? And I would ask you to read the description I supplied and then the one you supplied:

"I have no idea what the objects were that I saw up there. I noticed a couple of particles first. They were very small, flaky objects. I thought they might be residue from the peroxide fuel that the engine burns. Then, I looked out the left window and saw what looked like a piece of paper about the size of my hand. It was about 30 or 40 feet away. It was grayish white, and I looked at it for a full five seconds before it moved away and I left it. I still dont know what it was."

LINK

Our pilots account does not mention the craft above him in this article, it says he looked out the window to his left and saw something the size of his hand that looked like paper, it does not mention anything over his head, and he says he left the object. And the one you supplied is a man in the control room, not White?

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Posted (edited)

Our pilots account does not mention the craft above him in this article, it says he looked out the window to his left and saw something the size of his hand that looked like paper, it does not mention anything over his head, and he says he left the object. And the one you supplied is a man in the control room, not White?

This was a different incident, which took place on April 30, 1962 when Joseph Walker was flying the X-15. He filmed UFOs twice during his test flights, at least that I know of. The films have been shown on TV here in the US, although now they are in the hands of a private part who is looking to sell them.

These UFOs were flying higher than faster than even our most advanced spy planes like the U-2 and the Oxcart.

Edited by TheMacGuffin

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Hi TheMacGuffin,

I beg to differ. Zoser is not being piled on because of the person he is or what he believes in, but due to the way that he argues his case (or lack of same). And rightfully so, you reap what you sow. Zoser has been around for a while and has, quite frankly, been peddling a lot of junk cases that has been long explained and been long dead. Nothing wrong with that, in and off itself. We all learn - or should learn. However, quite a few posters at UM have spent a lot of time to post links to scientific journals, videos and other material explaining in detail where he is wrong. He has brushed those off completely without even a hint of acknowledgment. I personally find that rather disrespectful.

Zoser has made it his modus operandi to avoid all discussion and instead accuse posters opposing his point of view of not doing research, while it is embarrassingly obvious that he has no depth insight into any of what he posts and really only wants confirmation (mindless youtube searching and posting without doing even a simple Google search when it would show him that he was wrong), not a discussion to sort out what is good data and what is bad data. When he is shown to be patently wrong he'll abandon a thread, yet post the same arguments in another. At that point in time the discussion automatically translates from one of the topic at hand to one of debating tactics, and that is inherently tied to the poster itself. Nothing nefarious about it. Try the same trick in a scientific forum (say, in front of 300 scientists) and you would be flayed alive. He did this to himself and in the process he has lost all credibility. As he is appearing here it seem like he thinks this is some kind of blog where he can post what he likes and only accept positive comments. But as a discussion forum, he is patently wrong and his assertions are becoming pretty embarrassing, with all due respect. I can only speak for myself, but I only comment scarcely now and not for Zoser's benefit or my own (it's like arguing 2+2 does not equal 5), but for the benefit of the new reader to UM that might not be as well versed in the cases.

In contrary are a lot of other posters, yourself included. We have disagreed and we still do on a lot of what is put forth, but you take to the time to argue your case instead of just ad infinitum repeating what has been refuted in the hope that if you are persistent enough, it will turn into a truth. It will not. And you take the time to look at the counter arguments and what they entail. I respect that a lot.

Cheers,

Badeskov

The testimony of the dozens and even hundreds of witnesses on this thread now speaks louder than anyones intellectual argument.

As for the cases being already "dealt with":

Consider them re-opened.

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The testimony of the dozens and even hundreds of witnesses on this thread now speaks louder than anyones intellectual argument.

As for the cases being already "dealt with":

Consider them re-opened.

So if one thousand people say 1+1=3 you say that is correct, and math is incorrect?

They are not re-opened, you just cannot come to terms with the prosaic explanations, that's all.

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Posted (edited)

This was a different incident, which took place on April 30, 1962 when Joseph Walker was flying the X-15. He filmed UFOs twice during his test flights, at least that I know of. The films have been shown on TV here in the US, although now they are in the hands of a private part who is looking to sell them.

These UFOs were flying higher than faster than even our most advanced spy planes like the U-2 and the Oxcart.

That explains a lot!!!! I thought we were talking about Robert White!

Edited by psyche101

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ok zoser.. but what about the 100's and thousands of people who saw something the same time as your witness's and say.. it was a air plane.. or a bird.. ?

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So if one thousand people say 1+1=3 you say that is correct, and math is incorrect?

They are not re-opened, you just cannot come to terms with the prosaic explanations, that's all.

Individually people can be considered to misread what they experience. En-mass over decades this is just not possible. The weight of history of 70 years of sightings stands against your argument.

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ok zoser.. but what about the 100's and thousands of people who saw something the same time as your witness's and say.. it was a air plane.. or a bird.. ?

I haven't seen many of these I'm afraid. Regarding the Hudson Valley sightings and the Phoenix lights the over whelming majority of people are reporting unexplainable objects not planes, balloons or lightning.

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In this age of computer-enhanced images and manipulation, I also know enough to be leery of "leaked pictures", like this one that cropped up on the Internet last year. If any of these pictures was the real thing, how would we know it in the midst of so many fakes?

img_3055_101-dead-alien-bodys-from-roswell-ufo-crash-hq-leaked-2011-hd.jpg

0.jpg

Or are they just puppets made for a movie or an X-Files episode, as some people have claimed? No matter whether they were real or not, there would always be plenty of people coming along to muddy up the waters.

Here is a prime example of people muddying the waters.

Siberian-Gray-Alien-Corpse1.jpg

It turns out that this unfortunate alien was a hoax. Looks pretty convincing though. Certainly evidence that hoaxers can get quite elaborate and creative.

http://www.rt.com/news/dead-alien-siberia-body/

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The Smoking Gun - Trans En Province - France - 1981

Renato Niccolai, a farmer sees an small saucer shaped object land in his field. It makes an impact crater, remains for a short while and takes off again. The authorities conduct a very detailed soil analysis and find unusual radiation and toxicity traces. Renato is interviewed again by a psychologist who is convinced by his testimony. The soil exhibits symptoms of heating to a very high temperature in the order of 1500 deg C.

This event convinces the authorities that the phenomena is undeniable

.

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Individually people can be considered to misread what they experience. En-mass over decades this is just not possible. The weight of history of 70 years of sightings stands against your argument.

How about thousands of people claiming to see biblical figures for ten minutes?

LINK

LINK 1

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Posted (edited)

The observer was in space, were the objects? As far as I know they were within view. What I was responding to was you saying nothing of that shape existed in 1962. It did and you can see it.

Did it? How many airships of Zeppelin size were flying in the early 1960s, let alone enough of them to be flying about in formation? of course, it may have been Secret military Experiments, of course, that all purpose explanation for everything ... :innocent:

Edited by 747400

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Posted (edited)

How about thousands of people claiming to see biblical figures for ten minutes?

LINK

LINK 1

Your clutching at straws now. I have no doubt that religious hysteria exists along with other rare psychological phenomena. This is not relevant to the UFO phenomena.

Edited by zoser

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That explains a lot!!!! I thought we were talking about Robert White!

Hey Psyche,

you may enjoy this read:

http://magonia.haaan.com/2009/fireflies/

cheers

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Your clutching at straws now. I have no doubt that religious hysteria exists along with other rare psychological phenomena. This is not relevant to the UFO phenomena.

Why not?

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Your clutching at straws now. I have no doubt that religious hysteria exists along with other rare psychological phenomena. This is not relevant to the UFO phenomena.

Im sorry, what??

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