Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 17, 2012 Author #26 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Yeah dude i'm very open... I have no problem with an open mind when it is prepared to study the evidence and come to an informed and logical conclusion, but just spewing a pile of nonsense based on a total lack of logic and knowledge of a subject is not open-mindedness. But it still would be crazy to say that we have only been on the moon once Agreed... There were 6 landings. the military and whatever hidden undergrond have technology that is at least 40 years more advanced than what they give us puny citizens today. Dude to them it's like the year 2052, And your evidence for this is? Again a lack of logic, if it's so secret how can you possibly know it exists. This is just more empty rhetoric from you. they can do what the hell ever they want, they can probably go to mars. Evidence? So far not one word of your post is anything except wild guesses on your part. They probably don't even care about money. All it is paper to them but to citizens it's everything. look at gas prices these days... Holy **** thats all you need to know. Money is not a problem there is like billions of us paying all kinds of BS and only a handful of them... But there may be a possibility that NASA is broke but that's because nobody cares about NASA, All of our money is probably going into more important top secret projects that NASA itself don't even know about. I'm staying with it in case you actually post something you can back up, but to be honest I'm getting bored waiting. The US is in way too much debt. Your nonsense contradicts itself. You just claimed "money isn't a problem for them". Which is it, because I've never come across a nation or an individual which is in too much debt but money isn't a problem. In fact the very definition of being in too much debt is that money IS a problem. there is so much **** going on that the world don't know about that we probably should know about, the truth is indeed hard to believe, but i chose truth, No you don't. You have a belief. Just because you believe something does not make it true. we are not alone my friend, all it takes is a glance at the stars and hopefully you'll know that we are not alone. One glance may do that. I've never been satisfied with one glance and so I've been looking at the stars and learning about astronomy for around 40 years. That is why I will base my view of the moon landings on hard evidence and knowledge, nor guess work and wishful thinking.You maybe right. The aliens maybe here, but there is no evidence to support it. If ever that evidence is provided then I will believe. But as for your drivel about Apollo, not only does the evidence not support you, it overwhelmingly shows you're wrong. Being open minded is about searching for the truth. Study the evidence with a truly open mind (and that means weighing up all the evidence, not simply rejecting it because it doesn't fit your world view). If you do that you will discover that Apollo is just about the most completely documented event in history. There is not one piece of evidence in your post. Not one logical argument, just unsubstantiated opinion. Logic and evidence are the basis of the scientific method, and this is, after all, the science section. Now I really think we have taken this off topic enough. Conspiracy theories really belong in the conspiracy section. Discussions of ET contact belong in that section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolguy Posted June 18, 2012 #27 Share Posted June 18, 2012 yes its time to go back to the moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudite Celt Posted June 18, 2012 #28 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) There are so many things we don't know about our beautiful moon. For a start I would love to pepper the surface of the moon with gas detectors to get a fix on the strange TLP's that occasionally appear as ethereal clouds then quickly dissipate! What the hell are they? gas? collapsing lava tubes [my own theory]? seismic activity? plasma? Imagine a moon based telescope operating from the dark side.With ultra low thermal distortion the images would be literally out of this world. Then at some point in the future we will require helium 3 for cold fusion reactors. I'm also sure that the moon is bound to contain sizeable quantities of olivine, rhodium and god only knows what else. Imagine this scenario. A little rover descends into the darkness of a deep crater automatically tracking it's own way with 3D radar. Hours or days later the little rover that could finds the base six or seven thousand meters beneath the rim. A tiny camera stirs into life, a servo activates the lights; a signal is received on earth. A dark, dirty; icy half billion year old comet lies in permanent darkness! Let's get our Ar**'s into gear and get there. Edited June 18, 2012 by Erudite Celt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhuman Implant Posted June 18, 2012 #29 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Well long story short, or long we have been to the moon more than once, and i get my evidence from youtube there is tons and tons of evidence on that site and there are other sites too. But most people assume they are just fake because it's uploaded on youtube and it's a joke site but that's really the only way of getting out information to the world so everyone can see it and hopefully spread the word. people are just trying to share there knowledge, beliefs and interests to others. maybe when you see one video about something unbelievable, you would think it's fake, but when you start to see multiple videos popping up everywhere, how many are you going to deny before finally you start to realize? so youtube is amazing, it's basically like everybody taking up for those videos they think are fact and it changes there beliefs or something and then they spread the word about it and then the next people spread the word about it and so on. Like i said you can keep narrowing this subject down but eventually, more and more people are going to be putting up crazy information on youtube that you guys just arent going to believe, but it's real and eventually that's pretty much what youtubes gonna be all about is unexplainable stuff and it's already happening, the world don't revolve around just you, you are not going to accomplish much trying to scientifically figure out everything you don't believe because it's just impossible. and there is some things that science just will never explain, so once you get over that fact then maybe your mind will open a little bit more. Out of all them unexplainable videos on youtube, all it takes is one real one to be fact. you think all them people on youtube spending hours uploading videos and telling there stories are fake. why spend the time? do you think they like spending hours after work uploading videos about something false? Anyways, youtube is my proof and all the millions of videos on it are my proof and don't spend 40 years trying to figure out something on one subject because you are not going to get very far... Or open minded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DingoLingo Posted June 18, 2012 #30 Share Posted June 18, 2012 i think we will find that it will be a private enterprise that will do a moon run.. Gov's cannot afford it, so it will end up being a joint effort to get us back there, the same will be for Mars, Nasa etc will do the ground work, probes and the like, but getting man back there, will take some serious coin, that no Gov will ever spend on it, they will cop to much flack from the voters "Why are you spending x.3 billion on going to the moon when peole are starving at home, the hospitals suck, and the schools are run down" etc etc etc.. So we will be looking at big business. And the only reason why they would go to any effort like that is the potential money they can make , The moon, He3, different minerals, from the moon if they set up a base, then we will look at asteroid mining, at a guess pharmaceuticals will end up setting up shop either on a moon base, or a LEO station, compounds work and mix differently in low grav.. so new drugs etc. And I could go on from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyDontYouBeliEveMe Posted June 18, 2012 #31 Share Posted June 18, 2012 @ inhuman implant ! yeah keep it up goood work ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudite Celt Posted June 18, 2012 #32 Share Posted June 18, 2012 i think we will find that it will be a private enterprise that will do a moon run.. Gov's cannot afford it, so it will end up being a joint effort to get us back there, the same will be for Mars, Nasa etc will do the ground work, probes and the like, but getting man back there, will take some serious coin, that no Gov will ever spend on it, they will cop to much flack from the voters "Why are you spending x.3 billion on going to the moon when peole are starving at home, the hospitals suck, and the schools are run down" etc etc etc.. So we will be looking at big business. And the only reason why they would go to any effort like that is the potential money they can make , The moon, He3, different minerals, from the moon if they set up a base, then we will look at asteroid mining, at a guess pharmaceuticals will end up setting up shop either on a moon base, or a LEO station, compounds work and mix differently in low grav.. so new drugs etc. rr And I could go on from there. I think the low gravity drugs research program is a road to nowhere. Manned missions are also a huge wast of resources. Autonomous probes and rovers can equal and exceed what any human could do on the moon or any other planet. A rover software company from Finland recently tested a rover in the Atacama Desert in Chilli . It has a peripheral vision program that mimics the way a human eye detects anomalous objects on the peripheral edge of vision. A planted brown stock cube on dark sand was detected at an angle of 5* from the plane of vision at a distance of 16 meters!!! Incredible. A modern rover on the moon could easily operate independently for five years. A human on the other hand would require shelter, a return vehicle, food and water. A litre of water [ 1kg ] on the ISS costs $1000.00 post paid!!! Can you imagine what a 1kg box of electronics could do? It certainly wont get thirsty. The time for extended manned missions to terrestrial bodies will come in time but that time ain't now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socio Posted June 24, 2012 #33 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I think there are loads of scientific reasons why more research is necessary with our moon. However whether it should be manned missions or just robotic is another matter. The shear cost of manned flight is probably unobtainable in the present economic climate. I personally think that most of the experiments could be carried out robotically at a fraction of the cost. Aside from scientific reasons, I would think with all those craters thus countless meteors that have struck the moon we should be able to mine rare ores/minerals that would in turn pay for the cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 24, 2012 Author #34 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Aside from scientific reasons, I would think with all those craters thus countless meteors that have struck the moon we should be able to mine rare ores/minerals that would in turn pay for the cost. I would think that a crater is probably quite a poor place to go mining. Any metals brought to the moon by the meteorite would be largely vaporized during the impact. It would probably be cheaper and easier, in the long run, to mine asteroids directly. Some have proposed mining the moon for helium-3, which is useful in some proposed types of fusion reactors. As such reactors are probably 50 years away at least I've always considered this a bit of a red herring as a reason to return to the moon. The real reason to return is to actually explore the place. Only 12 men have walked on the moon, and the total time spent walking on the moon is, I believe, 80 hours 35 minutes. That's not exploration, that's a flying visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belial Posted June 24, 2012 #35 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Why go back now, NASA as always gone on about the costs and that they had done all they needed to do there? Shuttle missions scrapped over costs and safety issues, potentially new space ships in the pipe line - oh the contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 24, 2012 Author #36 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Why go back now, NASA as always gone on about the costs and that they had done all they needed to do there? Shuttle missions scrapped over costs and safety issues, potentially new space ships in the pipe line - oh the contradiction. Total and utter rubbish. NASA has NEVER claimed that they did all they needed to, in fact the exact opposite. The reason there is a Saturn V at Kennedy and another at Houston is because Apollo was cancelled early. NASA originally planned to fly at least 3 more Apollo missions to the moon before the politicians pulled the plug. The reason George W scrapped the shuttle was to free up NASA's budget so that the (now cancelled) Constellation programme could return the USA to the moon. Even with Constellation cancelled the Orion spacecraft, capable of deep space missions, is still being built. NASA is also building the Saturn V class Space Launch System. By 2020 NASA will have everything it needs to return to the moon EXCEPT a lander. THAT is why it is being discussed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox.Mulder Posted June 24, 2012 #37 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) How there is no air on the moon and the flag was flying a little bit? Edited June 24, 2012 by Fox.Mulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 24, 2012 Author #38 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) How there is no air on the moon and the flag was flying a little bit? Please ask this in the conspiracies section. There are plenty of people there that will explain this tired old piece of nonsense to you. Edited June 24, 2012 by Waspie_Dwarf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted June 24, 2012 #39 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I do think that "we" should go back, but I don't think that it will be Americans or any other Western power. I think that the Chinese will suddenly declare that they have landed and claim it for The Peoples Republic, as America claimed it for Mankind, then of course a row will start over who it belongs to, when it should not be owned by anyone.Maybe I'm right, maybe wrong I shall wait and see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo_04 Posted June 25, 2012 #40 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The time go to the moon passed long time ago, its time to move on to other places if you ask me. It's not about should we go, but when will go, it's in our blood to be explorers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted June 25, 2012 #41 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The time go to the moon passed long time ago, its time to move on to other places if you ask me. It's not about should we go, but when will go, it's in our blood to be explorers. Agreed on that friend but we still haven't explored all Earth yet , even still finding artifacts in out of way places..and also new species keep turning up in the Seas and Jungles.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted June 25, 2012 Author #42 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I do think that "we" should go back, but I don't think that it will be Americans or any other Western power. I think that the Chinese will suddenly declare that they have landed and claim it for The Peoples Republic, as America claimed it for Mankind, then of course a row will start over who it belongs to, when it should not be owned by anyone.Maybe I'm right, maybe wrong I shall wait and see... No maybe Spud, you are almost certainly wrong.Firstly China are extremely unlikely to claim the moon. To do so would be a breach of international law. In 1983 China signed the Outer Space Treaty of 1967. Article II of that treaty states: Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means. Secondly China are a long way short of even being capable of landing on the moon. They will not have a rocket capable of sending a manned vehicle around the moon until around 2020. This new vehicle would not be capable of launching an Apollo style mission to land on the moon, although it could be possible to mount a landing mission by launching individual components and docking them together in earth orbit. By the time the Chinese are capable of even thinking about manned moon missions the USA will have Orion and the Space Launch System coming on line, and that would mean the USA would only be lacking a lander to mount a return to the moon. If the Chinese decided to trigger a new moon race it is a race they almost certainly would not win. Lastly it is not feasible that the Chinese could, "suddenly declare that they have landed". The Chinese may appear secretive about their space programme when compared to that of the USA but believe me they are open when compared to the Soviet Union. The announce launches before they occur and publicise their long term goals. Currently their aim is for a space station around 2020. There are conflicting stories coming from China about whether they are planning manned landings on the moon, but even if they are it will not be until after they build their space station. The Soviets, on the other hand, did not announce flights until they had safely reached orbit. They hid their long term goals. They were far less open than China are now. So what, you might ask. Well the Soviet Union had a moon landing programme. It failed. The Soviets never announced this programme and lied about it until the collapse of Communism. However the West knew about this programme. I have books with fairly accurate drawings of their N1 rocket published whilst the Soviets were still denying it had ever existed. The US knew exactly when every failed launch attempt occurred. If the Soviet Union could not hide their moon programme from US spy satellites in the late '60s/early '70s then there is no way China could hide a moon programme now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo_04 Posted June 26, 2012 #43 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Agreed on that friend but we still haven't explored all Earth yet , even still finding artifacts in out of way places..and also new species keep turning up in the Seas and Jungles.. I don't like the linear path, we should take multiple paths at once, some to discover new species, etc, on earth other to explore space.....I mean to say "still haven't explored all Earth yet" its not an argument to wait to explore out side this planet, I'm sure you will agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwin Posted July 5, 2012 #44 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Negatively charged electrons rotating near the speed of light around, and not crashing into, a group of positively charged protons which should repel each other, all held in place by a particle which has no mass to create the terrific unknown force. Defination of a god particle Just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perra Posted July 9, 2012 #45 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Why go back? It just cost to much money for a journey like that. Aiiiiit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Supertypo Posted July 9, 2012 #46 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I think its a good idea. The moon has lot of resourches and the best platform for performing scientific research. Also the technology advancement we will get by having a permanent moon base is more than enough to justify all the expenses: advancement in life support, AI, engierneering, chemistry, biology ect is beyond imagination. Personally? I think we should have been insisting with Apollo, rather than cutting it away and replacing it with the space shuttle (now that was a waste) Mars is a secondary objective. The moon is near and much easier to go. Edited July 9, 2012 by ~C.S.M~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Fly Posted July 9, 2012 #47 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I've never understood why the space exploration isn't as important as it should be anymore. We keep hearing of things like Global warming, solar flares, meteors, other natural disasters that could wipe out the human race in the blink of an eye nd population growth which is a big concern. Surely we owe it to the human race as a whole to work out how to populate the stars. Shift loads of people and give the poor earth a bit of a break as well form being crammed with humans. Of course this won't happen because of the greed int he world and the fact the goverments aren't evolved enough yet to realise world peace is the key to the human races survival and advancement. ii find the same, all of a sudden to me the moon landings, research etc just waverd off. which i find it a great shame. would be good if i were to see it in my life time but i doubt it. Thanks OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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