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Phoenix - Flares Debunked


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Have you ever asked yourself why mankind needs all that invasive medical technology? Could it be that modern life is extremely destructive on the human complex and that the medical profession is just repairing the damage that the culture does?

In theory that could be true.

In actual fact, historical and scientific data has shown that humans in developed nations today with access to modern science live on average longer than any group in history, and much longer on average than people the further you go back in history to compare it with.

If modern medicine is merely repairing the damage of modern science then why was life expectancy so short in medieval and ancient times with no modern science to cause the damage that modern medicine is supposedly cleaning up?

Why did so many people die of diseases that a course of antibiotics will deal with today? Why did so many people die from infected wounds and injuries that are trivial to survive these days with basic medical attention? Life expectancy in medieval Europe, without any modern science or medicine, was as low as 30 - 40 years old! That means that a person had a 50% change of living to 30-40 years old. Why? Because childbirth was so dangerous to mothers and babies without modern medicine. Because so many children died from childhood diseases without access to antibiotics. Because otherwise minor injuries were life threatening because they lead to infections, gangrene, etc. Because if you were a diabetic you had no access to insulin injections and thus were doomed to not even live to adulthood. And in days gone by, in some times and cultures, people drank like fish, smoked like chimneys, etc. because they didn't have access to modern studies that have shown the dangers of these activities.

The problem with your idea is that it is completely at odds with the facts.

Edited by Archimedes
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I see the correlation with the Flares ,Phoenix, and antibioticaliens.but i get lost on the 30-40 year old smoked vikings and european b\diabetic children?

Am I missing the codex on this thread ?

Lets start all over !

1.FlaRES ARE KOOL TO LOOK AT.

2.PHOENIX IS REALLY hOT ALL YEAR ROUND !

3.From there it all falls apart for some reason.maybe its the time warp. Remember to Jump to the Right,and step to the left ?

Or was that visa-versa ?

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I see the correlation with the Flares ,Phoenix, and antibioticaliens.but i get lost on the 30-40 year old smoked vikings and european b\diabetic children?

Am I missing the codex on this thread ?

2.PHOENIX IS REALLY hOT ALL YEAR ROUND !

Hot as hell out there in that desert sun. I know what I'm talking about.

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I see the correlation with the Flares ,Phoenix, and antibioticaliens.but i get lost on the 30-40 year old smoked vikings and european b\diabetic children?

That was just me responding to zoser's claim that modern medicine isn't necessary, it's just there to clean up the mess created by modern science.

Which is clearly nonsense as the history of mankind without access to modern science and medicine has shown. But it's a derail to the overall thread.

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Hot as hell out there in that desert sun. I know what I'm talking about.

Its Cookin right now there ! Keep the A/C max on McGuff !

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Hot as hell out there in that desert sun. I know what I'm talking about.

Hell yeah it is! I've been to the Phoenix area several times, I have family that lives down that way. It's nothing for it to hit 120+ F in the summer. Hot.

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Hell yeah it is! I've been to the Phoenix area several times, I have family that lives down that way. It's nothing for it to hit 120+ F in the summer. Hot.

I live in Florida now, where we have the heat plus the humidity, but I lived in Las Vegas for a few years and during the summer it was like walking into an oven. I lived some in some places overseas that were just as hot--or worse.

I was in Las Vegas a few years ago to settle my father's estate. He was out in Las Vegas for quite a while and then retired there, and during the time I was handling the estate I thought of staying myself. I might even go back to Nevada sometime if I get tired of the humidity here.

At the time my father died, though, I was living in Argentina, which is one of my favorite foreign countries. I might go back there sometime, but I really got sick of traveling, flying, going through airports, and now I tend to prefer just to stay put.

Edited by TheMcGuffin
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I live in Florida now, where we have the heat plus the humidity, but I lived in Las Vegas for a few years and during the summer it was like walking into an oven. I lived some in some places overseas that were just as hot--or worse.

I was in Las Vegas a few years ago to settle my father's estate. He was out in Las Vegas for quite a while and then retired there, and during the time I was handling the estate I thought of staying myself. I might even go back to Nevada sometime if I get tired of the humidity here.

At the time my father died, though, I was living in Argentina, which is one of my favorite foreign countries. I might go back there sometime, but I really got sick of traveling, flying, going through airports, and now I tend to prefer just to stay put.

I lived down that way as well, North Carolina (stationed at Ft. Bragg, US Army). I've been to Florida a few times too and it's a different kind of heat when you add the humidity to it. I much prefer the drier heat of the desert, it's less uncomfortable to me than the 'southern summer' climate. ^_^

Anyway, sorry for off-topic ramble. :blush:

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Actually, S2F, it was quite refreshing to see a post with a little bit of reality in it.

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Actually, S2F, it was quite refreshing to see a post with a little bit of reality in it.

I like getting to know some of the posters around here and a little banter never hurts. I know McG and I disagree more often than not but I don't hold it against him or anyone else for that matter. There's quite a few individuals from both sides of the fence that I wouldn't mind sharing a few beers with, yourself included. :tu:

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I like getting to know some of the posters around here and a little banter never hurts. I know McG and I disagree more often than not but I don't hold it against him or anyone else for that matter. There's quite a few individuals from both sides of the fence that I wouldn't mind sharing a few beers with, yourself included. :tu:

thumb_COLOURBOX2976030.jpg

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not so sure guys, but yes possible. I just dont see kids spending $300 odd on contact lenses to pull of a prank, one that rarely gives them any real laugh at the time...i.e. 'they knock on door, ask to get let in, then walk away' dont see where the kids get their kicks here? especially as the 'scared/uneasy' feeling described by those reporting it comes about in the report and would/could be difficult to spot by the prankster, rendering prank unlikely IMO.

does anyone know if there have been any multiple sightings/events...i.e. more than one person sees them at the same time? I ask this because from what I have read it has been individuals only and this leaves the possibility of it being all in the mind.

I am sure a five fingered discount would put these things in some kids price ranges ;) It is not all that regular, so an isolated incident of theft here and there seems pretty reasonable.

one major difference is that the MIB always seemed to show up after a UFO sighting/event, and I dont think the same can be said about the BEKs. At least not from what I have read to date.

edit to add: apologies for derailing.......

No, not a lot of UFO connection, they do however both tend to be considered "old fashioned" in clothing, speech and style, vehicles as well where MIB is concerned, and both require an invitation to enter, and seen rather desperate for it. It might simply be a modern version of the tale, but BEK's strike me as more nefarious than MIB although witnesses purport feelings of fear or discomfort in their presence, which could also be exaggeration with time, interesting to se the two claims that have as much corroboration that they do, but corroboration always catches my eye.

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Boo

I might be repeating myself to say that in 1997 I was in the process of raising 2 kids in high school, so the event in Phoenix was just a tiny blip in the news--just another UFO incident somewhere. I never paid any particular attention to it then, and only became aware of it recently, courtesy of History or Nat Geo channels.

Yes, there are videos, and apparently quite a few more than the several you mention. And there are at least hundreds if not thousands of people who saw it pass right over their heads.

It seems clear that there were 2 incidents--1 early in the evening witnessed and filmed by many including some TV stations, and the other around 10PM which appears likely to have been a USAF response to the earlier incident. I have no doubt that they did send up some A-10s, and I'm sure the reasons for that are myriad and bureaucratic.

Yes, as Fife stated clearly, he saw the earlier event, and it was something not of this earth, or words to that effect. Ditto all the others who watched the drawn out earlier event.

And of course you are right that nobody here has stated that "I think we are alone in the universe." No prob.

Funny thing is, however, that many post AS IF we are alone in the universe, or AS IF it is utterly impossible for the events in Phoenix to be anything OTHER THAN mass psychosis, hypnosis. They post as if the only and most obvious explanation is that the earlier event did not happen, or it was somehow some guys in A-10s went out early, or some other nonsensical explanation, SO LONG AS the explanation is that it simply could not be craft from another place or dimension.

Hi BR

I hope you do not mind the interruption.

You are not taking the hundreds or thousand of witnesses into account, you are saying they are right because Fife Symmington has a tale to tell. A politician up for re-election, no motivation? What did so many people in Phoenix say? It's an Alien!! You do realise that when Fife took his show to stage that he garnered all these votes immediately without a promise, without advertising, heck, without trying. Is that not good business sense? Is that not an advantageous situation? Would you not consider that "motive"?

Now a Pilot by the name of Rich Contry managed to identify the 8PM sighting as planes, individual planes. He gave his version of events and guess what, he was completely ignored. Not one UFO investigator wanted to talk to him. And he corroborates Mitch Stanley, now Mitch had a Dobsonian telescope that offered him a better view than any witness with a naked eye, in fact 43 times better. This gives him a significant advantage over any eyewitness that you have mentioned. And he saw planes, he mentioned this to his mother at the time, and a friend who happened to e with him at the time. But f you wish to look at the believers, Tim Ley has no idea what he saw, but he got a closer look at the lights by the sound of it, and he can testify and did, that he saw individual lights, they were not part of any single object.

But apart from that as you said yourself, there were hundreds in not thousands of witnesses. And you say that many took movies and photos. Can you present just one that definitely depicts one large triangle?

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I lived down that way as well, North Carolina (stationed at Ft. Bragg, US Army). I've been to Florida a few times too and it's a different kind of heat when you add the humidity to it. I much prefer the drier heat of the desert, it's less uncomfortable to me than the 'southern summer' climate. ^_^

Anyway, sorry for off-topic ramble. :blush:

You guys have to visit us :D

According to MODIS, the hottest place in 2004 and 2005 was the Lut desert of Iran, which reached 70.7 degrees C (159 degrees F). In 2003, Queensland, Australia, was the hottest place on Earth, with a temperature of 69.3 degrees C (157 degrees F).

LINK

:D

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i m starting to love you babe ruth :D ... yeah most of the skeptic are really funny... they all say .. i have no duobt that aliens exist, but i need prove ! uhh? lols ...... yeah makes sense !

OK, where exactly does life exist? What planet, and is it intelligent? Fill us all in.

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You guys have to visit us :D

According to MODIS, the hottest place in 2004 and 2005 was the Lut desert of Iran, which reached 70.7 degrees C (159 degrees F). In 2003, Queensland, Australia, was the hottest place on Earth, with a temperature of 69.3 degrees C (157 degrees F).

LINK

:D

I've been through Death Valley California during the summer once. It was around 125-130 deg F. That was plenty hot enough, I don't want to go looking for any place hotter although I'd love to visit Australia some day. :tu:

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Loved Mt Isa in QLD.. have not been that warm in ages :)

You'd love Oz Slave.. just watch out for the spiders and snakes ;)

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Loved Mt Isa in QLD.. have not been that warm in ages :)

You'd love Oz Slave.. just watch out for the spiders and snakes ;)

Oh I love spiders and snakes, just not enough to forget their potentially lethal capabilities. I'd love to see a Sydney Funnel Web spider or an Eastern Brown snake. That kind of stuff is fascinating to me. I always try to make a special trip to the desert when I'm in Arizona to look for Tarantulas and Rattlesnakes. My wife think I'm crazy of course. :lol:

*Oops, off topic again... :P

Edited by Slave2Fate
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I guess zoser's shifted goal posts appear to have worked. Or at least he appears to think so, especially under cover from BR's uninformed statements and all the other off topic posts.

I hope that everyone else isn't snowed by such things.

But yeah, I'd love to share a beer with you all.

Cheers.

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I've been through Death Valley California during the summer once. It was around 125-130 deg F. That was plenty hot enough, I don't want to go looking for any place hotter although I'd love to visit Australia some day. :tu:

I think it's about time to give up on his evidence presentations. He cannot debate the information in them, he refuses factual information for shaky testimony and does not discuss a single aspect beyond how nobody listens to witnesses. In short the evidence presented is atrocious and never defended and countering argument is simply ignored without reason. Becoming more a whine than a debate. A Blog is more suited to that style of presentation, but there are so many out there doing the same thing, it would not get a second glance. I mean heck, he posted the known Aztec Hoax as a "credible case" and then went on and posted that Buzz Aldrin rubbish that Buzz has been saying himself for decades we deliberately modified without his permission to appear something that it is not. After like a 70 page thread right here at UM. I mean, one never had to leave UM to find an in depth answer, and as you know, I even got feedback from NASA's Dr David Morrison on that one, NASAs senior astrobiologist. Yet this is outright well known lie is presented as "tantalising testimony"?

My opinion is that such posting is not fair to the forum, or it's members. There is webspace kindly provided to every member so that they make take the blog option, but that options seems to be extending into this forum in this instance. And now we have this, the Phoenix lights, in which he refuses to accept the math has been done to falsify the statements he has produced. Just yet another example where one did not even have to leave UM to find extensive and fairly recent information that is far more in depth than this entire thread has achieved. And how many times has he been told where the answer lies? He refuses to accept the answer exists. Each piece of factual information is met with "but the witnesses said....." Just where does one go with that? Talk about re-inventing the wheel. I think I could sum up every presentation with the words "But the witnesses said!" Beyond that I fail to see any points made.

Good lord I could use that beer right now, even being 10AM and a cold morning. You wouldn't dare visit down under without sharing a beer with me mate! I'll hunt ya down!

Edited by psyche101
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I've been through Death Valley California during the summer once. It was around 125-130 deg F. That was plenty hot enough, I don't want to go looking for any place hotter although I'd love to visit Australia some day. :tu:

Come to the Gold Coast, most Americans I have met tell me it reminds them quite a bit of California, not having been to California, I cannot say. I am in the Hinterland, I am sure we can find you a nice Brown Snake to play with, but you are on your own there! One summer I found a Red Bellied Black Snake swimming in my pool.

Wait till you see a bird spider!

Edited by psyche101
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I think it's about time to give up on his evidence presentations. He cannot debate the information in them, he refuses factual information for shaky testimony and does not discuss a single aspect beyond how nobody listens to witnesses. In short the evidence presented is atrocious and never defended and countering argument is simply ignored without reason. Becoming more a whine than a debate. A Blog is more suited to that style of presentation, but there are so many out there doing the same thing, it would not get a second glance. I mean heck, he posted the known Aztec Hoax as a "credible case" and then went on and posted that Buzz Aldrin rubbish that Buzz has been saying himself for decades we deliberately modified without his permission to appear something that it is not. After like a 70 page thread right here at UM. I mean, one never had to leave UM to find an in depth answer, and as you know, I even got feedback from NASA's Dr David Morrison on that one, NASAs senior astrobiologist. Yet this is outright well known lie is presented as "tantalising testimony"?

My opinion is that such posting is not fair to the forum, or it's members. There is webspace kindly provided to every member so that they make take the blog option, but that options seems to be extending into this forum in this instance. And now we have this, the Phoenix lights, in which he refuses to accept the math has been done to falsify the statements he has produced. Just yet another example where one did not even have to leave UM to find extensive and fairly recent information that is far more in depth than this entire thread has achieved. And how many times has he been told where the answer lies? He refuses to accept the answer exists. Each piece of factual information is met with "but the witnesses said....." Just where does one go with that? Talk about re-inventing the wheel. I think I could sum up every presentation with the words "But the witnesses said!" Beyond that I fail to see any points made.

Good lord I could use that beer right now, even being 10AM and a cold morning. You wouldn't dare visit down under without sharing a beer with me mate! I'll hunt ya down!

I agree with your assessment here psyche. Unfortunately I don't think zoser has availed himself of the wealth of information in any of the Best Evidence threads since I think they were a bit before he joined. To understand the sheer breadth and scope of the information that has been gone over and the outstanding contributions of several members they would be required reading in my opinion. I think we spent a couple of weeks and at least 10-20 pages of posts just on the Phoenix lights alone. Zoser seems to think all of these cases have been dismissed out of hand by the local skeptics however almost all of them have been gone over here in very minute detail in some instances. (like BoLA and Echo Flight to name just two)

As for that beer, I'd never dream of going to Australia without at least paying you a visit. You'd have to show a mate around some of the local watering holes though, maybe even throw in a Yowie hunt as well! :tu:

*Edit: I see that zoser was a member for at least two of the BE threads, so maybe he just ignored them at the time? I don't know. :hmm:

Edited by Slave2Fate
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I guess zoser's shifted goal posts appear to have worked. Or at least he appears to think so, especially under cover from BR's uninformed statements and all the other off topic posts.

Nothing new there...on both accounts.

I hope that everyone else isn't snowed by such things.

Frankly, I think most readers have the ability to see what is going on. It is blatantly obvious to those who actually want to be informed. However, if you want to remain ignorant then nobody can help.

But yeah, I'd love to share a beer with you all.

I am on for that :tu:

Cheers.

Badeskov

Edited to add: no Foster's please :P

Edited by badeskov
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Come to the Gold Coast, most Americans I have met tell me it reminds them quite a bit of California, not having been to California, I cannot say. I am in the Hinterland, I am sure we can find you a nice Brown Snake to play with, but you are on your own there! One summer I found a Red Bellied Black Snake swimming in my pool.

Wait till you see a bird spider!

I never did make it as far south as Australia. I spent five years in South Korea, and also some time in Japan, Thailand and the Philippines, but I never went south of Singapore in my travels. Met plenty of Australians out there, though, and generally liked them.

Even when I was living in Turkey, I recall meeting a bunch of people from Australia and New Zealand coming to Gallipoli for ANZAC Day.

Edited by TheMcGuffin
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Edited to add: no Foster's please :P

Mate no one in oz drinks that stuff.. we export it to countrys that dont really know what a good beer is ;)

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