Taun Posted June 21, 2012 Author #51 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm game. I'll add what I think should/could be considered rock and roll. It changes through the years. Some pretty tame songs in the 50's are still rock and roll to me. Rap is not rock and roll. Country is divided. Some is, some isn't. Agreed - though some rap songs blur the lines... Hows this for starting list: Rythym and Blues Folk Rock Pop Metal ('Hard Rock' - power riffs etc) Country-Rock (or Rock-a-billy if you prefer) 'Traditional Rock' (the style from the Late 50's - to mid 60's) Acid-Rock (or Psychadelic Rock) Punk Funk Disco Heavy Metal (Much harder rock to include "Doom" and 'Viking Death Metal' kinds) New Age Skiffle (?) I'm in favor of a type of "Ballad Rock" for the more storytelling, easier listening rock Should we add 'crossover' Rock (for those hard to place?) Should 'Metal' be further subdivided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted June 21, 2012 #52 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm game. I'll add what I think should/could be considered rock and roll. It changes through the years. Some pretty tame songs in the 50's are still rock and roll to me. Rap is not rock and roll. Country is divided. Some is, some isn't. And The Eagles should be considered country... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted June 21, 2012 Author #53 Share Posted June 21, 2012 And The Eagles should be considered country... They are one of the reasons I proposed a category for Country-Rock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 21, 2012 #54 Share Posted June 21, 2012 And The Eagles should be considered country... I don't think they are. Especially if you compare their music to country artists of the time. Life in the fast lane, Witchy woman, Hotel California. Not country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted June 21, 2012 #55 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hey don't dis the RRHOF too much, they at least had the prescence of mind to put (puke) Axl Rose (pukepuke) in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted June 21, 2012 #56 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Devo was absolutely instrumental in the development of new wave. Some people even feel that Byrne ripped off Motherbaugh with alot of the Talking Heads stuff, musically speaking. Plus you have to include his work on Yo Gabba Gabba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted June 21, 2012 #57 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Taun, in your list, where would The Beatles fit in, and The Yardbirds, and The Animals, et al? Also, what about Doo Wop music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted June 21, 2012 Author #58 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Taun, in your list, where would The Beatles fit in, and The Yardbirds, and The Animals, et al? Also, what about Doo Wop music? Not for ME to decide... it would be a group effort... which is one of the problems I have with the real HOF - personal preferences of a select few... What I would like (after the categories are decided upon) is to have groups or performers considered along with the suggested category and then allot them to a final category by mutual consensus... Probably somewhat of a drawn out process, but hey! We really have no time limit on this... As for Doo Wop - sure. Why not it was a distinctive style of "Rock" and probably had a rather well defined time frame it occurred in... Besides, where else would you put Sha Na Na? As for the Beatles: I would place them in several categories: "Traditional Rock", "Folk Rock" and probably even "Psychadelic Rock"... The Animals I would put them mostly in the "Traditional Rock" Category - but I'm always open to reasonable persuasion... The intent is that one band can be in several times, based on genres covered... (Essentially the band would be listed once with several 'tags' after it... Alternatively we (as a group) could just create a database of bands and assign them to relevant genres and if and when they come up for vote - they go where they are tagged... The advantage to this is that periodically we could decided to 'induct' (say) two groups into each category.... Edited June 21, 2012 by Taun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 21, 2012 #59 Share Posted June 21, 2012 For me, it's infulence on a specific genre more than anything. Did the artist start a genre or define it as we know it? Musicianship? Not so much, there are plenty of incredible musicians whom are not signed or never even play profesionally. I don't see that as a barometer. I would stab myself in the eyeball if Batio ever sniffs the Hall of Fame. lol. I guess ultimately, cultural and musical impact would be the deciding factor for me. I disagree. The talent one has in most definetely relevant. Neil Peart makes Rush a no-brainer as much as their list of great songs and albums. Robin Trower should be in based off of his ability. Although The Who is is without question, John Entwhistle was a major part. I agree that there are good musicians in most towns all over, but that is the same with singers. There are a couple criteria I forgot to mention: Song Writing ability. Staying power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted June 21, 2012 #60 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) I don't think they are. Especially if you compare their music to country artists of the time. Life in the fast lane, Witchy woman, Hotel California. Not country. Top 100 " Country Rock " songs....Here are first 9..... 1. Desperado - Eagles 2. Knockin' On Heaven's Door - Bob Dylan 3. Heart of Gold - Neil Young 4. Take It Easy - Eagles 5. You Ain't Goin' Nowhere - The Byrds 6. Wild Horses - The Flying Burrito Brothers 7. Garden Party - Rick Nelson 8. The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down - The Band 9. Peaceful Easy Feeling - Eagles The Eagles turned down an offer to perform at Super Bowl XLII, but they’d probably accept one to play on the Grand Ole Opry, singer Don Henley says. “That would be an honor,” Henley told the Associated Press recently. And why not? The group that once epitomized the excesses of ’70s rock stardom have the biggest-selling country album of the year so far with “Long Road Out of Eden.” The double-disc set, their first studio album in 28 years, has sold 2 million in the U.S. and topped Billboard’s country album chart for four weeks since its Oct. 30 release, edging out Garth Brooks, Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift........... The album’s first single, “How Long,” is a sturdy country rocker that recalls early hits like “Take it Easy.” The song reached No. 24 on the country singles chart, their best showing since “Lyin’ Eyes” went to No. 8 in 1975............. http://today.msnbc.m...y/#.T-OQa_WkPC0 I used to argue with my sister about this, brings back memories Edited June 21, 2012 by Sakari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 21, 2012 #61 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Top 100 " Country Rock " songs....Here are first 9..... 1. Desperado - Eagles 2. Knockin' On Heaven's Door - Bob Dylan 3. Heart of Gold - Neil Young 4. Take It Easy - Eagles 5. You Ain't Goin' Nowhere - The Byrds 6. Wild Horses - The Flying Burrito Brothers 7. Garden Party - Rick Nelson 8. The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down - The Band 9. Peaceful Easy Feeling - Eagles The Eagles turned down an offer to perform at Super Bowl XLII, but they’d probably accept one to play on the Grand Ole Opry, singer Don Henley says. “That would be an honor,” Henley told the Associated Press recently. And why not? The group that once epitomized the excesses of ’70s rock stardom have the biggest-selling country album of the year so far with “Long Road Out of Eden.” The double-disc set, their first studio album in 28 years, has sold 2 million in the U.S. and topped Billboard’s country album chart for four weeks since its Oct. 30 release, edging out Garth Brooks, Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift........... The album’s first single, “How Long,” is a sturdy country rocker that recalls early hits like “Take it Easy.” The song reached No. 24 on the country singles chart, their best showing since “Lyin’ Eyes” went to No. 8 in 1975............. http://today.msnbc.m...y/#.T-OQa_WkPC0 I used to argue with my sister about this, brings back memories Of course you see it is "country rock". That's because they really couldn't find a catagory to put them into. The Band country? Bob dylyn? Neil Young? I suppose the Allman Bros are country too. I can see your arguement, I just don't agree. Especially compared to country at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted June 21, 2012 #62 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Of course you see it is "country rock". That's because they really couldn't find a catagory to put them into. The Band country? Bob dylyn? Neil Young? I suppose the Allman Bros are country too. I can see your arguement, I just don't agree. Especially compared to country at the time. It is my opinion, no biggie at all....I do not see Metallica, Led Zeppelin, or Van Halen having any songs on the country music charts. ( just to name a few ) It is just the " rocker " in me, I hate seeing certain bands or people representing, that just do not " fit in ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 22, 2012 #63 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ok, I'll start. This is an easy one I believe. CCR - Creedence Clearwater Revival. Catagory can be southern rock, Rock, R&B, swamp rock. They have numerous hits with staying power. They've had #1 albums and several #2 songs. They were a Woodstock headliner. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creedence_Clearwater_Revival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted June 22, 2012 Author #64 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Hmm... Let's 'build the hall' before we start filling it... That might make it easier.. I'm off work all next week (pre-vacation vacation if that makes sense), so I'll be able to spend some time fleshing out a proposed 'structure'... Everyone is much more than welcome to do the same (including taking the week off! ), then we can compare notes and see what we come up with... How does that sound? - Or does everyone want to just start getting down to the discussion and voting? (I'm okay either way) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Only Posted June 22, 2012 #65 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Build the hall! Then fill it with heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted June 24, 2012 Author #66 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Okay… I’ve given it a bit of thought and while I am still working on my proposal of what our HOF will “Look like” I’ve come up with a proposal for voting… Here goes… Acts will be recommended for admission for a specific genre (i.e. Heavy Metal, Pop, Traditional Rock, etc) but only for a single genre… They can be submitted at another time for another genre if they ‘crossed over’… Once submitted – research will be done, to determine if the act meets a few criteria.. Minimum time period since being formed… (25 years unless we choose another period) Actually released at least 1 ‘album’ (regardless of media) in the appropriate genre during that period. (an album will consist of at least 8 songs – or a minimum of 40 minutes of music) Must be a ‘main stream’ act – in other words must have been at least nationally released and available to the general public, either through a physical ‘music store’, a nationally available catalog, or a major internet site… The intent here is so someone’s ‘garage band’ that is self -published and sold at a few flea markets or truck stops is NOT acceptable. Nothing against garage bands, but we have to have a cut off somewhere… nationally released means very widely released... I know we have many members from many different countries here... this is not just a US HOF or a UK HOF - even acts speaking other languages are fully acceptable... Once accepted as a ‘contender’ an act will be placed for general vote… Voting will be by way of assigning points from a fixed schedule and then adding in ‘voters option points’… Here is a proposal for the fixed schedule of points… Number of different albums released (not compilation albums): 20 pts each Total album sales: 10 pts per million Bonus for Gold certified albums: 50 pts each Bonus for Platinum Certified albums: 100 pts each Each time listed as a “Major Influence”: 50 pts (listing to be verified) Hits: single songs that make it to the “Billboard Charts” top 25 get a varied number of points: #25 – 1 pt - - - #20 – 7 pts - - - #15 – 18 pts - - - #10 -34 pts - - - #5 – 55 pts #24 – 2pts - - - #19 – 9 pts - - - #14 – 21 pts - - -#9 – 38 pts - - - #4 -60 pts #23 – 3 pts - - - #18 – 11 pts - - - #13 – 24 pts - - -#8 -42 pts - - - #3 65 pts #22 – 4 pts - - -#17 – 13 pts - - - #12 – 27 pts- - - #7 – 46 pts - - - #2 – 70 pts #21 – 5pts - - - #16 -15 pts - - - #11 – 30 pts - - - #6 – 50 pts - - - #1 - 75 pts These points are for the highest number the song ever hits… not per week – just a one time award. EXAMPLE ACT: (This is a proposed format for submission using fake band and data) The Band “The Usual Bunch of Idiots” (I’ve always thought that would be a great name for a band!) formed in 1965 and disbanded in 1981… They released 8 studio albums. 2 went Platinum (“We’re Idiots 1966 and “Beats the Heck Outta me” 1974) while another 2 went Gold (“More Idiots” 1973 and “Forget about It” 1968)… They sold a total of 15 million albums world wide and had 7 top 25 hits: “Who was that?” #17; “Uhhhh… No.” #8; “Leaky Faucet Drivin’ Me Crazy” #1; “Mud on My Shoes” #19; “Hole In My Head” #15; “I May Be An Idiot, But I’m Not Stupid” # 2 and “What Was I Saying?” #18. While they were primarily a Traditional Rock Band they were cited three times as major influences: “The Mud Puppies” Listed them as a major influence in founding “Slimey Rock”… (citation verified) The “Disconnected Five” and “The Whatevers” Listed them as major influences… (citations verified) So “The Usual Bunch of Idiots” would have the following Base Points: 8 albums = 160 pts (20x8) 2 Platinum = 200 pts (100x2) 2 Gold = 100 pts (50x2) 15 million sold = 150 pts (10x15) Hits: 238 pts (75+70+42+18+13+11+9 = 238) Influence Pts: 150 (50x3) For a total of: 998 pts Then the HOF Staff (anyone who logs into UM and wants to vote 1 vote per member) votes: I haven’t come up with voter points yet…. What do you think? edit: while re-reading I got to thinking maybe we should but a maximum number of times a band can be cited as an Influence, say - 5 times??? further edit: while 'The Usual Bunch of Idiots" released 8 Studio Albums - had they released a 'Live' Album it would have counted as well - only Compilation albums don't count - except for total sales... Edited June 24, 2012 by Taun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_dreamer Posted June 24, 2012 #67 Share Posted June 24, 2012 It sounds complicated Taun, though I know you mean well. How about something simple that my little brain can handle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimbaudelaire Posted June 24, 2012 #68 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Public Enemy performed live for a few years (1985-1987) before they recorded anything (1988). I think they'll be eligible for next year's (2013) roster. If there's an argument against their nomination, I can't imagine what it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Only Posted June 24, 2012 #69 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Public Enemy performed live for a few years (1985-1987) before they recorded anything (1988). I think they'll be eligible for next year's (2013) roster. If there's an argument against their nomination, I can't imagine what it would be. They're not a rock 'n' roll band or artist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted June 24, 2012 Author #70 Share Posted June 24, 2012 It sounds complicated Taun, though I know you mean well. How about something simple that my little brain can handle? It's not really that complicated... My thought was that the person suggesting them, mearly put down their name, genre nominated for and any other info they care to dig up... Who ever is maintaining the data base (probably me) then does a bit of research, fleshes out the nomination and presents three or so nominees every new voting period (the three highest scoring acts)... Then everyone votes, so that our members votes can sway the total basic votes to get a winner... The voters points will be VERY simple - probably a pool of say 100 points that they can divide up as they see fit... Highest point total is in... Does that sound better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 25, 2012 #71 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Define "Cited as influence". I've never been big on that. It seems that usually when someone writes about a band they care for, they include something about them influencing others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted June 25, 2012 Author #72 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Define "Cited as influence". I've never been big on that. It seems that usually when someone writes about a band they care for, they include something about them influencing others. I was thinking along the lines of when a band states that someone or some group was a major influence on them - also if the band in question was noted as the founding band of a style... Like the first punk band or the first metal band, etc... I'm not dead set on this, like any other criteria it's for all of us to agree on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimbaudelaire Posted June 26, 2012 #73 Share Posted June 26, 2012 They're not a rock 'n' roll band or artist. No? Ever see PE perform? What's the difference between the Beastie Boys and PE? If Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, ABBA, Bobby Darin, and Louis Armstrong are in the RRHOF, then where is the definition of "Rock n Roll" that excludes PE but allowed for the induction of those listed? BTW -- Alice Cooper is in the RRHOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimbaudelaire Posted June 26, 2012 #74 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I was thinking along the lines of when a band states that someone or some group was a major influence on them - also if the band in question was noted as the founding band of a style... Like the first punk band or the first metal band, etc... I'm not dead set on this, like any other criteria it's for all of us to agree on... Agreed. Everything is derivative. All art is the culmination and impetus of "influence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-C Posted June 26, 2012 #75 Share Posted June 26, 2012 ABBA and Madonna are in the RRHOF for some reason, along with relatively obscure blues performers. What do they have in common? Not much! Like I said, the selection criteria seems totally random. Popularity, critical acclaim, who knows what the rules are. It's just the voices in some Cleveland person's head. Hello, little_dreamer, RRHOF might be in Cleveland, but it is not Clevelanders' decisions who to induct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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