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BorisIWantToKnow

Questioning christianity's originality

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Posted (edited)

post-112347-0-35909700-1340971346_thumb.I stumbled upon this picture, and i was amazed. I never knew this was true. Is it? If it is, then......

http://a8.sphotos.ak...974789632_n.jpg

Here's the link to the picture, and i've attached it here

Edited by BorisIWantToKnow
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All religions borrow from each other. The only people that don't know that are religious people.

:3 purr

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this is an old myth started by atheists to try to connect between Jesus and Horus

as an attempt to explain that jesus was a fictionary character .. which is absurd

in both historical speaking and evidences that support it

i have however a more better question for christians

i have heard that jesus birthday and other dates in christianty have been changed by the church

to match certain numbers which resulted this

am not expert and am not sure about it though perhaps expert christians can tell us more

wheather dates and such has been changed

but regarding atheists claim on jesus as fiction character .. it's a joke claim in my opinion

as history proves it wrong and not just christians history speak of jesus

there are more than one history that speak of the character

and i Do mean history not just religious texts i mean historians and history from people other than christianty

so the claim stand weak infront of history

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Posted (edited)

this is an old myth started by atheists to try to connect between Jesus and Horus

as an attempt to explain that jesus was a fictionary character .. which is absurd

This is nothing personal to you Knight..but I have to figure something out.. is that just your opinion or do you have actual evidence of that claim?....If that is not just an opinion you hold.. then I must ask you to back ALL of that up with actual evidence that atheists did all of it... I am thinking you will have some trouble...I never can understand why atheist fall blame to every silly thing that is pointed out in ref to any religion......... The sec someone points out something that makes religions look daft they blame...atheists or some other non suspecting folks ...pointing the finger at others is too easy.

So I say prove it..present any shred of REAL hard evidence that atheists took it all to themselves to invent these stories dating from the greek gods up to the Christian God... I am keen to see what you have and trust me ..i'll be looking for actual evidence...

Now please note - If it is just your opinion..then state so and we can leave it as just your chosen opinion, I will not agree with your opinion, but I can respect your right to hold it either way.........if not..then I would love to see real evidence to support that claim you just made..and it has to be from actual atheists..and no info from random Christian sites will work..I want real hard evidence from educated people ( like histories and scholars ) that confirms that it was really atheists that invents these stories and not the people who invented the religions.over time ...I hope you don't mind me asking.. Remember if it is just an opinion you have then no need to take it further..but if you have evidence.,. then I would like to see it.. that is all I am saying here.. Nothing personal to you Knight ..

It is a well know fact of human nature that authors of books will pinch ideas from each other..Its been going on from the word go...Heck we even see it in movies and other programes.. you name it .. copy cats is the trend..has always been so ..for many things

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Posted (edited)

This is nothing personal to you Knight..but I have to figure something out.. is that just your opinion or do you have actual evidence of that claim?....If that is not just an opinion you hold.. then I must ask you to back ALL of that up with actual evidence that atheists did all of it... I am thinking you will have some trouble...I never can understand why atheist fall blame to every silly thing that is pointed out in ref to any religion......... The sec someone points out something that makes religions look daft they blame...atheists or some other non suspecting folks ...pointing the finger at others is too easy.

So I say prove it..present any shred of REAL hard evidence that atheists took it all to themselves to invent these stories dating from the greek gods up to the Christian God... I am keen to see what you have and trust me ..i'll be looking for actual evidence...

Now please note - If it is just your opinion..then state so and we can leave it as just your chosen opinion, I will not agree with your opinion, but I can respect your right to hold it either way.........if not..then I would love to see real evidence to support that claim you just made..and it has to be from actual atheists..and no info from random Christian sites will work..I want real hard evidence from educated people ( like histories and scholars ) that confirms that it was really atheists that invents these stories and not the people who invented the religions.over time ...I hope you don't mind me asking.. Remember if it is just an opinion you have then no need to take it further..but if you have evidence.,. then I would like to see it.. that is all I am saying here.. Nothing personal to you Knight ..

It is a well know fact of human nature that authors of books will pinch ideas from each other..Its been going on from the word go...Heck we even see it in movies and other programes.. you name it .. copy cats is the trend..has always been so ..for many things

it's a personal opinion that those atheists who done the linking between jesus and horus

however .. horus is the sun god .. and jesus god son

and prayers are carried on .. on sunday if am not mistaken

and plus i have theory that dates were changed to match the linking between them

but alas we need expert christian to support or deny this still

if some dates were changed by the church

however i didn't mean atheists invented those gods sorry to be unclear .. i meant that the linking was done by them

sorry for being short on words at the moment

Edited by Knight Of Shadows

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Posted (edited)

it's a personal opinion that those atheists who done the linking between jesus and horus

however i didn't mean atheists invented those gods sorry to be unclear .. i meant that the linking was done by them

sorry for being short on words at the moment

I have never ever seen actual proof of that... I have seen a lot of proof of atheists getting blamed on so many things..but I have yet to see proof that atheists linked every religious god that had virgins and Dec 25th ect like that.....This reminds me of how some will blame Christians on saying things about other faiths..... blaming never ends that is my point.too easy to point the finger at folks that do not follow a path others do..In general no one likes it when their own kind gets the blame..but they are very keen on blaming others for all sorts.... So I guess this will remain just your opinion and i'll leave it at that

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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I have never ever seen actual proof of that... I have seen a lot of proof of atheists getting blamed on so many things..but I have yet to see proof that atheists linked every religious god that had virgins and Dec 25th ect like that.....This reminds me of how some will blame Christians on saying things about other faiths..... blaming never ends that is my point.too easy to point the finger at folks that do not follow a path others do..In general no one likes it when their own kind gets the blame..but they are very keen on blaming others for all sorts.... So I guess this will remain just your opinion and i'll leave it at that

There is a difference between blaming someone, and blaming someone (and/or people) who actually are guilty.

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I have never ever seen actual proof of that... I have seen a lot of proof of atheists getting blamed on so many things..but I have yet to see proof that atheists linked every religious god that had virgins and Dec 25th ect like that.....This reminds me of how some will blame Christians on saying things about other faiths..... blaming never ends that is my point.too easy to point the finger at folks that do not follow a path others do..In general no one likes it when their own kind gets the blame..but they are very keen on blaming others for all sorts.... So I guess this will remain just your opinion and i'll leave it at that

regarding other faiths i only post my opinion which may be wrong .. or right

as to why atheists being blamed for those things it's easy

from my personal experince every person i knew made such linking was atheist

also there has been linking between islam and other pagan religions .. also by atheists i met or knew

this is where i got that impression

i am unable to push their claims off in this case sadly am not well equiped with knowledge on christianity as christians

however i've seen many fails when debating and linking islam to other pre-historic religions .. funny fails sometimes i have to admit

but none the less it's always my opinion i express

unless am providing facts .. and when it's not opinion but a fact i provide

you'd know by the smug and smirk on my face and the evidences provided in my post :P

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Atheists probably did link it, they know more about religion as a whole than all the religious people.. It's not a bad thing, t's education. :) They do their homework so they can know for certain they're wrong or right. They don't go on faith ;)

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Atheists probably did link it, they know more about religion as a whole than all the religious people.. It's not a bad thing, t's education. :) They do their homework so they can know for certain they're wrong or right. They don't go on faith ;)

I see where your coming from but religion =/= lack of education. If you find any expert on a given religion, regardless of their own beliefs, they will give you much the same evidence, although they might interpret it differently. That's why it's important to make your own interpretations not just take anything as true, regardless of who says it. Just as an aside, we very rarely know anything to be right or wrong. The best we can usually do is say what is most likely.

Following on from the OP and Knight's posts:

Yes, Jesus' birthday was moved to 25.12 to coincide with older religious festivals so that kind of makes the fact that other Gods were meant to be born on that day self-explanatory.

The other thing I would say is that, just because stories associated with older divinities are also associated with Jesus, does not mean he did not exist. It does not even mean he didn't do those things. What better way to prove your divinity than to perform miracles out of legends?

Personally, I think he existed but was just a man with a very good message to pass on and people have attributed miracles to him since then.

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To raise the bar on humanity sometimes you need something better than humanity to do it with. And that's a good enough reason to me to use allegory, metaphor, and original/unoriginal storytelling in order to get that clue.

Do religions borrow from one another? Of course! Does originality actually matter to you? Then believe in what's original, whatever that is.

Jesus is the most historically documented person who ever lived 2000+ years ago. If someone feels comfortable denying the existence of Jesus they might as well deny all other history that came before it. And what does such a person call a Christian who does that? There's a mirror moment.

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regarding other faiths i only post my opinion which may be wrong .. or right

as to why atheists being blamed for those things it's easy

from my personal experince every person i knew made such linking was atheist

also there has been linking between islam and other pagan religions .. also by atheists i met or knew

this is where i got that impression

i am unable to push their claims off in this case sadly am not well equiped with knowledge on christianity as christians

however i've seen many fails when debating and linking islam to other pre-historic religions .. funny fails sometimes i have to admit

but none the less it's always my opinion i express

unless am providing facts .. and when it's not opinion but a fact i provide

you'd know by the smug and smirk on my face and the evidences provided in my post :P

Well Knight... you note it is your opinion and that is what I respect...not agree with you but I'll respect it .

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There is a difference between blaming someone, and blaming someone (and/or people) who actually are guilty.

And who is guilty?

I just think some scholars that studied all ancient regions came across it at one point and made a big deal of the similarities putting them together to show how similar they all were ..

Later some non religious folk ( some of them ) see this and think it be fun to make Christianity look daft ..and they take this and poke fun like making that picture we see planted in the OP for a start.. that sort of poking fun..

But the actual stories written I don't think are altered by anyone.. I say this because I know mankind is well known to copy and take ideas from one and other at some point.. I know that long before we ever had a bible ..many told religious stories and passed them on word of mouth.. So anyone could have used some parts to make up their own version.. it could have happened ..This is my own opinion...and I care not who disagrees with my opinion lol

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There is evidence the Abrahamic religions has origins from polytheistic religions but this stuff is just Zeitgeist bs

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As an Atheist - the claims which I believe have some semblance of support are:

Horus

  • Virgin Birth (If we're defining virgin to include someone who's only had sex with Gods).
  • Healed the Sick
  • Restored Sight
  • Resurrected

Khrisna

  • Performed Miracles

Dionysus

  • Virgin Birth (If we're defining virgin to include someone who's only had sex with Gods).
  • Traveling Teacher
  • Turned Water into Wine

None of them, quite honestly, fit the bill as a template for Jesus. At best, they're evidence that Gods were born of other Gods and performed miracles.

I expect, being Gods, that's probably a given.

If you're looking for the overall source for Christ's life - then the Old Testament prophets is where you want to concentrate your search.

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Jesus is the most historically documented person who ever lived 2000+ years ago.

Yeah. Those Roman Emperors. No contemporary historical documentation of them, at all.

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Yeah. Those Roman Emperors. No contemporary historical documentation of them, at all.

Yeah. Those Roman documents from that Roman Emperor of yours are everywhere these days just like Bibles.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah. Those Roman documents from that Roman Emperor of yours are everywhere these days just like Bibles.

Because mass duplication is exactly the same thing as being historical.

I'll send the memo to J K Rowling.

Edited by Tiggs
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Because mass duplication is exactly the same thing as being historical.

What words are "exactly the same thing as being historical"? That's pure semantics. Send your straw memo out as you wish.

Mass documentation is no reason for you to think something isn't well documented, historical or not. Derp.

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Because mass duplication is exactly the same thing as being historical.

I'll send the memo to J K Rowling.

:lol: That was pretty good

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What words are "exactly the same thing as being historical"? That's pure semantics. Send your straw memo out as you wish.

Mass documentation is no reason for you to think something isn't well documented, historical or not. Derp.

Then feel free to produce contemporary evidence for Christ's historical existence & I'll provide contemporary evidence for any first century Roman emperor of your choice.

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Then feel free to produce contemporary evidence for Christ's historical existence & I'll provide contemporary evidence for any first century Roman emperor of your choice.

I'm not going to feel free to accept your false premise. It was a mistake on your part to assign me your straw that "no contemporary evidence exists" for Roman emperors of any century. And I accept your apology.

We're not discussing Christ's historicity here, we're discussing Christianity's originality. If you feel the need to discuss historicity yet again, post a new topic but please leave your straw out of it if I participate.

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I'm not going to feel free to accept your false premise. It was a mistake on your part to assign me your straw that "no contemporary evidence exists" for Roman emperors of any century. And I accept your apology.

We're not discussing Christ's historicity here, we're discussing Christianity's originality. If you feel the need to discuss historicity yet again, post a new topic but please leave your straw out of it if I participate.

If you're going to go around posting "Jesus is the most historically documented person who ever lived 2000+ years ago." - then expect to be called on it.

Truth is - he's not even close.

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Posted (edited)

If you're going to go around posting "Jesus is the most historically documented person who ever lived 2000+ years ago." - then expect to be called on it.

Truth is - he's not even close.

Very true..I too agree ..We all can make claims, but we should expect at any time to be called on it..

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Posted (edited)

<p>Riyeh called it, especially

this stuff is just Zeitgeist bs

but also worth mentioning, I think, is the first part of his sentence,

There is evidence the Abrahamic religions has origins from polytheistic religions

That's true, just as the polytheistic religions incorporate elements from older, especially shamanic, religious systems.

Tiggs, for example, mentioned the "resurrected" Horus.

Now, before I go down this road (which I know Tiggs doesn't like to go down, because it proposes a psychological foundation for this sort of thing), let me say up front that I am in full agreement with Tiggs' concluding assessment,

If you're looking for the overall source for Christ's life - then the Old Testament prophets is where you want to concentrate your search.

With my only reservations being first, as Riyeh points out, there are elements of other religions mixed into the Hebrew Bible, and second, that it is hard to see how you tell a story about anybody fulfilling a body of prophecy, without telling a story that sounds a lot like the prophecy.

OK. so on to suvivals.

I've edited this to reflect Tiggs' correct observation that I mixed Horus and Osirs. (post 27 below, correction acknowledged with thanks.) Since most of the points stand, however...

Tiggs mentioned Horus being "resurrected." That was a family tradiition, because in a sense, so was his Dad.. But Osiris' ordeal was probably a holdover from an earlier shamanic phase.

Osiris was dismemebered and reassembled. That is an archetypal motif, and in religion, it is an echo of the shamanic dismemberment crisis. It is an image of what wealthy modern people call "acute schizophrenia," whose adolescent onset was often the "sign" of favor by the spirits with whom the shaman-designate would work throughout his or her career. An elder shaman would play Isis, fostering the reassembly of the younger colleague's ego-consciousness.

It would have been easy enough to copy Osirs, but the Christian writers didn't. In fact, they found a Jewish pretext (Psalm 34: 20) to call attention that they weren't - the idea that not a bone of Jesus was broken. Translation: this is not a dismemberment narrative. And of course, the giveaway that this is intentional is that it is John (19: 34 ff.) who tells us this - the evangelist who knows this stuff, and is writing late enough to have plausibly already heard about the Osiris proto-Zeitgeist thing from others who can't tell, or would rather not dwell on, the difference between a resurrection and a dismemberment crisis.

If the Christian writers imitated something, then Jesus' "appearance to named indiviiduals after death" narrative much more closely resembles a ghost story that Pliny the Younger tells, at about the same time as the Gospels are being written, which Pliny attributed to Athenodorus Cananites (life dates spanning the turn of the Era), perhaps intending to assert a biographical fact.

http://www.vroma.org...iny07-27-E.html

It is the readers' willingness to accept Jesus' resurrection as a biographical fact, rather than a psycho-spiritual motif story, that gives the Christian version any sort of recruting appeal. Osiris was available for worship at the turn of the Era, for anybody who was so inclined. Me-tooing him with a Jewish Messiah School dropout wouldn't be a marketing strategy of genius. Product differentiation, not low-fidelity tone-deaf imitation, is the key to profit.

Edited by eight bits

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