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lliqerty

911 Pentagon Video Footage

3,304 posts in this topic

nukes too.

I heard that!! He ignored the fact there was no evidence of explosions, but then again, he has been ignoring evidence all along.

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Ah, LG, that's the beauty of a perfect conspiracy theory. If there's no supporting evidence then it was all suppressed and it's an automatic win. If there's anything that could even vaguely be considered evidence in the CTists' minds then it is again a win.

Here here! Though I must say the unprecedented lack of physical investigation of the airliners, Bush and Cheney’s refusal to testify under oath, destruction of WTC steel members even after they had been marked of specific interest and for further analysis, etc, etc, etc, may all rather be indication of suppression of evidence. Anyhow, it all seems very one-sided. Bear with me...

Did you know that during the 70s, a group of Neocons headed by GHW Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and supported by Cheney attempted to exaggerate the Soviet threat? Team B the project was called, which opposed the NIE’s own analysis with intention to frighten the U.S. public and wider government into supporting more militaristic ideologies. Where there was evidence for Team B’s conclusions, it was a win. Where there was not evidence... well, that’s because the Soviets had advanced military covert programs... so they made it up instead. Of course later, such threats were found to be a Neocon fantasy.

Fast-forward three decades, and we come to the Iraq war on the basis of Saddam’s soon to be realised ‘non-existent’ WMD program. The same Neocons involved all over again, bar GW Bush now standing in for his father. And during that propaganda campaign, where there was evidence, it was a win. Where there was not evidence... well, that’s because Saddam was keeping it super-secret... so they made it up instead.

Now sandwiched between the above two episodes was a certain 9/11. Again the very same individuals at the helm, who we now know (or at least we should, based on the above) will scare-monger with propaganda and fantasy to further their agendas. They tell us bin Laden and ‘Al-Qaeda’ is responsible and kindly draw the boundaries of that network for us. Where there was the evidence of connected individuals, it was a win. Where there was not evidence that would stand up in court... well, that’s because bin Laden was on the run and hiding so they couldn’t catch him to prove it... so they made it up instead.

So it seems to me, that everything you mention above about the ‘perfect conspiracy theory’ could be likewise applied to the ‘perfect Neocon theory’... or is it that Neocons create ‘perfect conspiracy theories’ which should be equally recognised as such? I certainly know which is the more dangerous. It’s just a thought about upon which particular ‘conspiracy theories’ our attentions are best focussed.

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Here here! Though I must say the unprecedented lack of physical investigation of the airliners, Bush and Cheney’s refusal to testify under oath, destruction of WTC steel members even after they had been marked of specific interest and for further analysis, etc, etc, etc, may all rather be indication of suppression of evidence. Anyhow, it all seems very one-sided. Bear with me.

I might add that there was more than enough evidence the aircraft were the airframes of American 11, American 77, United 93 and United 175. Only a certain number of "200 series" pertaining to those aircraft were built.

Fast-forward three decades, and we come to the Iraq war on the basis of Saddam’s soon to be realised ‘non-existent’ WMD program. The same Neocons involved all over again, bar GW Bush now standing in for his father. And during that propaganda campaign, where there was evidence, it was a win. Where there was not evidence... well, that’s because Saddam was keeping it super-secret... so they made it up instead.

How many combat troops are currently in Iraq? None! Are we scheduled to pull out combat troops from Afghanistan next year? Yes!

* Did we invade Iraq after the 1993 WTC1 bombing? No!

* Did we invade Afghanistan after al-Qaeda bombed our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania? No!

* Did we invade Afghanistan after the bombing of the USS Cole? No!

* Did we invade Libya after the downing of Pan Am 103? No!

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I might add that there was more than enough evidence the aircraft were the airframes of American 11, American 77, United 93 and United 175. Only a certain number of "200 series" pertaining to those aircraft were built.

There is enough evidence for the unquestioning mind, though due to the lack of physical identification, there is zero direct evidence that any of the airliners are those stated.

How many combat troops are currently in Iraq? None! Are we scheduled to pull out combat troops from Afghanistan next year? Yes!

* Did we invade Iraq after the 1993 WTC1 bombing? No!

* Did we invade Afghanistan after al-Qaeda bombed our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania? No!

* Did we invade Afghanistan after the bombing of the USS Cole? No!

* Did we invade Libya after the downing of Pan Am 103? No!

I don’t see your point. What is your point?

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There is enough evidence for the unquestioning mind, though due to the lack of physical identificationthere is zero direct evidence that any of the airliners are those stated.

Lack of physical evidence? There was evidence all over the crash sites. You can also check the fleet histories of American Airlines and United Airlines and the maintenance checks and flight histories of the affected aircraft.

It doesn't take much to determine what happened to those aircraft because there is black box, radar and yes, even satellite data in addition to ATC communication tapes, and remember, only a certain number of B-757-200 and B-767-200 series aircraft were built. Question is, how are you going to acquire a B-757 or a B-767 and not leave a traceable paper trail thousands of miles long?

I don’t see your point. What is your point?

Seems to me you tried to paint the United States as a warmonger that will do anything to start a war.

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Q24, I'll assume you have incontrovertible evidence to support your statements. I'll also assume you have a counter theory to what happened on 9/11. You don't have to trot it out, I'm just going with both those assumptions for now.

At the point, I'd like to ask the Moderaptorial Entities' indulgence while I take a walk down Conspiracy Theory Lane. JFK's assassination spawned a host of them and there are those who believe the Holocaust was a hoax perpetrated by the Jewish community. No mention is made of all the others killed during that period since that would ruin the CTs. Groom Lake (aka: Area 51) has a gawdawful number of CTs surrounding it and, of course, there are Roswell, the NWO, the alien shadow government and a number of others. We have bunches of concentration-type camps around the country, previous ones used for the internment of the Japanese Americans during WW II and others closed military facility which are associated with white trucks, airplanes and box cars used to gather those the government feels are objectionable.and transport to the camps.

So what does this have to do with 9/11? Count the number of conflicting CTs regarding 9/11 then ask yourself which is the correct one. They can't all be yet each one has a vocal supporting group that exclude the rest. Q24's is but one of those many CTs and can't be proven without excluding the rest. sooo ... which do we believe?

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They tell us bin Laden and ‘Al-Qaeda’ is responsible and kindly draw the boundaries of that network for us. Where there was the evidence of connected individuals, it was a win.

You might want hear from the lips of bin Laden.

Bin Laden's Fatwa

The following text is a fatwa, or declaration of war, by Osama bin Laden first published in Al Quds Al Arabi, a London-based newspaper. The fatwa is entitled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/military/july-dec96/fatwa_1996.html

Bin Laden claims responsibility for 9/11

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden appeared in a new message aired on an Arabic TV station Friday night, for the first time claiming direct responsibility for the 2001 attacks against the United States.

The militant Islamic group decided "we should destroy towers in America" because "we are a free people... and we want to regain the freedom of our nation," said bin Laden, dressed in yellow and white robes and videotaped against a plain brown background.

In the 18-minute message, parts of which were played on Qatar-based Al-Jazeera just four days before the American presidential election, bin Laden accused U.S. President George W. Bush of negligence on the day 19 suicide hijackers took over four American passenger jets.

He also threatened new attacks if the policies of the U.S. government do not change.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html

Bin Laden Admits 9/11 Responsibility, Warns of More Attacks

A tape aired by Al-Jazeera television Friday showed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden admitting for the first time that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and saying the United States could face more.

Bin Laden said he thought of the method of attacking U.S. skyscrapers when he saw Israeli aircraft bombing tower blocks in Lebanon in 1982. "We decided to destroy towers in America," he said. "God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/binladen_10-29-04.html

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Eleven years later, for some the deception is still working. That is evidence of the skill of those practicing the deception, and the gullibility of those being deceived.

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Eleven years later, for some the deception is still working.

11 years and no evidence.

That is evidence of the skill of those practicing the deception, and the gullibility of those being deceived.

Apparently, you were gullible enough to fall victim to those 9/11 conspiracy websites.

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Key 9/11 suspect 'admits guilt'

"I was the operational director for Sheikh Osama Bin Laden for the organising, planning, follow-up and execution of the 9/11 operation," Mr Mohammed told the hearing, in a statement read by a representative. According to the partial transcripts, he also admitted responsibility for a series of attacks, including the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York, the bombing of nightclubs in Bali in 2002 and a Kenyan hotel in the same year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6452573.stm

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Is there any kind of Statue of Limitations on sanity in here ? :no:

I thought so !

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Is there any kind of Statue of Limitations on sanity in here ? :no:

I thought so !

Old friend, sanity is vastly overrated. :-)

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Key 9/11 suspect 'admits guilt'

But, Sky, all that was faked. It's all part of The Conspiracy. Or one of them. :cry:

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Eleven years later, for some the deception is still working. That is evidence of the skill of those practicing the deception, and the gullibility of those being deceived.

BR, there remains one major problem, that being that there are too many contradictory conspiracy theories. Until there can be agreement among all the CTists, there will always be those who believe the rest of the CTists are being deceived or are part of the conspiracy. Even here, you and Q24 don't even agree on everything.

The only common element is "The government lies" which is something no one will argue against. We all know governments lie as a part of doing business. Heck, we even elect people to office whom we know will lie through their teeth once they get there. And yet somehow we keep on electing them and re-electing them. So the question here is who's to blame, the politicians or the people who put them in office?

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The flight profiles were not indicative of the way we do business in the real world and the 9/11 flight profiles were not indicative of profiles flown by professional nor by miltary pilots.

What do you mean by "flight profiles", specifically? What do you mean by "not indicative"?

This is really too vague. If you can provide some details, then I'll be able to respond...

Secondly, only a certain number of B-757-200 series and B-767-200 series aircraft were built and there was no way to acquire those aircraft for modification purposes and not leave a paper trail from Washington State to Washington D.C. As I have said before, it would have taken me less than 30 minutes to reveal a switched aircraft.

You clearly don't grasp the concept of a false flag operation.

Do you think every airplane that's ever been built ...is on public record? Of course you don't.

Indeed, some planes have been built in secret, right?

So they can build high-tech planes, kept in secret for years, or decades....but not 757's!!

That's a good one...

Not even the military could have pulled it off and not get caught. I have worked for the Air Force and defense contractors as an airframe technician, supervisor and inspector, and flown as a C-5 DCC crewmember, and have over 43 years experience as a pilot to know what I am talking about.

See above,

It's BEEN pulled off by the military - it is a documented fact.

You may have 43 years of experience (in related fields)....but, in this matter...you don't know what you're talking about

How are you going to acquire four large airliners and not leave behind a paper trail all over the country? How are you going to modify such aircraft and not leave a long paper trail? You are going to create a record when you file a flight plan for such aircraft and that will blow the whistle during an investigation.

As noted above.

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What do you mean by "flight profiles", specifically? What do you mean by "not indicative"?

Look at the altitude profiles for each aircraft. Any experienced pilot would know those profiles are not flown by professional pilots.

You clearly don't grasp the concept of a false flag operation.

There is nothing there to indicate a false flag operation. Apparently, you are unaware of what would have been involved in setting up such an operation. There was no way the government could have pulled off a false flag 9/11 operation and not get caught.

Do you think every airplane that's ever been built ...is on public record? Of course you don't.

In regards to the B-767 and B-757, why of course they are on the records. Additionally, one of my chapters specializes in homebuilt aircraft and provides support to those who wish to build their own airplane. As I have mentioned before, airframe technology is a specialty of mine..

Indeed, some planes have been built in secret, right? So they can build high-tech planes, kept in secret for years, or decades....but not 757's!! That's a good one...

It sure is and building aircraft in secret doesn't mean there are no records for such aircraft. I hope you didn't t think there were no records for the SR-71,. A-12, and the YF-12. I might add that the A-12 was faster and flew higher than the SR-71 and the YF-12.

Locations of A-12s

  • Tail Number/ Lockheed Build Number
    • 6924/ #121

      [*]6925/ #122

      [*]6926/ #123

      • Lost on 24 May 1963, Nevada. When water froze in the pitot tube causing an incorrect reading on the TDI(Triple Display Instrument). The aircraft (first A-12 to crash) stalled, then the A-12 entered a inverted spin, crashing 14 miles South of Wendover, UT. The CIA Pilot Ken Collins ejected safely.

      [*]6927/ #124B

      [*]6928/ #125

      • Lost on 5 January 1967, Groom Lake,Nevada. With a faulty fuel guage, CIA Pilot Walt Ray was on final to Groom Lake, NV, when the A-12 ran out of fuel. Walt Ray ejected from the aircraft, he faile to seperate from the ejection seat and was killed when he landed in seat.

      [*]6929/ #126

      • Lost on 28 December 1967, Groom Lake, NV. A-12 had a SAS (Stability Augmentation System) wired in reverse causing the CIA Pilot Mel Vojovidich to loose control of the A-12. Vojovidich ejected safely.

      [*]6930/ #127

      [*]6931/ #128

      [*]6932/ #129

      • Lost on 5 June 1968, in South China Sea off Phillipines Islands. While on a FCF (Functional Check Flight) CIA Pilot Jack Weeks and the A-12 disappered, No trace was ever found of pilot or aircraft.

      [*]6933/ #130

      [*]6934-6936

      • Numbers assigned to YF-12 production, see below

      [*]6937/ #131

      [*]6938/ #132

      [*]6939/ #133

      • Lost on 9 July 1964, at Groom Lake, NV. While on approach to Groom Lake, the aircraft suffered a hydraulic failure, causing loss of control of the A-12. Lockheed Test Pilot Bill Park ejected safely.

      [*]6940/ #134M

      • Actually a M-21, On display at Museum of Flight, Seattle,WA. Mated with D-21 drone

      [*]6941/ #135M

      • M-21, Lost on 30 July 1966, near Midway Island, (some sources say Pt. Mugu, CA). While launching a D-21 drone, the drone was trapped in the shock wave of the aircraft, forcing the drone back into the M-21, causing the aircraft to break-up at Mach 3. The Lockheed Test Pilot Bill Park and the LCO (Launch Control Officer) Ray Torick ejected safely, but upon landing in the water Ray Torrick's suit, which became torn in the ejection, caused the suit to fill with water drowning Torrick. Bill Park was rescued safely. This crash prompted the end of the M-21/ D-21 program.

    [*]Serial Numbers assigned to A-12 production was 60-6924 through 60-6948

    [*]Serial numbers 60-6942 through 60-6948 were not used

    [*].

    [*] Location of YF-12A

    • 6934/ #1001
      • Lost on 14 August 1966 (some sources say 14 July 1966), at Edwards AFB, CA. Seriously damaged during a landing at Edwards. The rear half of the YF was fused with the front half of the SR-71 static model to make the SR-71C #64-17981.

      [*]6935/ #1002

      • On display in Annex of USAF Museum, Wright-Patterson, OH

      [*]6936/ #1003

      • Lost on 24 June 1971, Edwards AFB, CA. While in the traffic pattern at Edwards AFB, a fire broke due to fuel line rupture, while on final the entire aircraft became engulfed in fire and both crew members ejected safely, Lt. Col. Ronald Layton, and Major Bill Curtis.

    Location of SR-71s

    • 950/ #2001
      • Lost on 10 January 1967 at Edwards AFB, CA. During anti-skid braking tests, the tires blew out causing a fire, which resulted in the loss of the aircraft. Lockheed Test pilot Art Peterson survived.

      [*]951/ #2002

      [*]952/ #2003

      • Lost on 25 January 1966 near Tucumcari, NM. While in a 30 deg. bank at Mach 3 and 80,000 ft, the right engine had an unstart. Which caused the aircraft to desintegrate. The Lockheed RSO Jim Zwayer was killed in the bailout, while Lockheed Test Pilot Bill Weaver survived even though he never ejected, the aircraft desintegrated around him!

      [*]953/ #2004

      • Lost on 18 December 1969 near Shosone, CA. After an inflight explosion, both USAF Pilot and RSO: Lt. Col. Joe Rogers/ Lt. Col. Garry Heidelbaugh ejected safely. No explanation for the explosion was ever found.

      [*]954/ #2005

      • Lost on 11 April 1969 at Edwards AFB, CA. While doing maximum weight take-off tests, the left main tires blew causing a fire which engulfed the entire aircraft. USAF Pilot/ RSO: Lt. Col. Bill Skliar/ Major Noel Warner escaped safely.

      [*]955/ #2006

      • On display at Edwards AFB, CA

      [*]956/ #2007/NASA #831

      • "B" model (trainer)
      • Transferred to NASA(NASA #831) inventory with closing on USAF SR-71 program
      • With the reopening of the USAF SR-71 program used jointly by NASA and the USAF
      • With the cancelation of the USAF SR-71 program(again!), transferred to NASA
      • December 17, 2002 transferred to Kalamazoo Air Zoo, Kalamazoo, Michigan

      [*]957/ #2008

      • SR-71B (Trainer) Lost on 11 Janaury 1968 near Beale AFB, CA. While over Washington state the SR suffered double generator failure. The Instructor Pilot: Lt. Col. Robert Sowers and the Student Pilot: Capt. David Fruehauf managed to get the aircraft on final to Beale when both engines flamed out due to fuel pump cavitation. Both crew members ejected safely, while the SR crashed inverted several miles from Beale AFB, CA.

      [*]958/ #2009

      [*]959/ #2010

      • "Big Tail" On display at USAF Armament Museum, Eglin AFB, FL

      [*]960/ #2011

      [*]961/ #2012

      [*]962/ #2013

      • In storage at Palmdale, CA
      • Now on display at he Imperial War Museum at Duxford, England as of April 11, 2001

      [*]963/ #2014

      [*]964/ #2015

      [*]965/ #2016

      • Lost on 25 October 1967 near Lovelock, NV. The aircraft suffered an INS (Inertial Navigation System) failure while on night flight. After unknowingly entering a dive, the USAF Pilot/ RSO: Capt. Roy St.Martin/ Capt. John Carnochan ejected safely. The aircraft crashed near Lovelock, NV. This was the second SR lost by USAF.

      [*]966/ #2017

      • Lost on 13 April 1965 near Las Vegas, NM. The aircraft entered a subsonic stall after a night refueling. The aircraft crashed near Las Vegas, NM, after both USAF Pilot/RSO: Capt. Earle Boone/ Capt. Richard Sheffield ejected safely. First SR loss by USAF.

      [*]967/ #2018

      • Was in storage at Palmdale, CA; Now being refurbished by Lockheed for USAF, Made first flight after refurbishing on 28 August 1995. Now being flown by USAF out of Edwards AFB, CA.

      [*]968/ #2019

      • In storage at Palmdale, CA

      [*]969/ #2020

      • Lost on 10 May 1970 near Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base (RTAFB), Thailand. After refueling the aircraft was in a climb back to altitude, when it entered a huge thunderstorm with clouds well above 45,000 ft. Both engines flamed out and unable to save the aircraft both USAF Pilot/ RSO: Maj. William Lawson/ Maj. Glibert Martinez ejected safely.

      [*]970/ #2021

      • Lost on 17 June 1970 near El Paso, TX. After refueling, the SR and the KC-135Q collided, when the SR suddenly pitched up and hit the tanker. The USAF Pilot/RSO: Lt. Col. Buddy Brown/ Maj. Mortimer Jarvis both ejected safely, but Buddy Brown broke both his legs during the ejection. The KC-135Q limped back to Beale AFB, CA and arrived safely.

      [*]971/ #2022/ NASA #832

      • Was on loan to NASA
      • Now being flown by the USAF out of Edwards AFB, CA
      • Fly-by aircraft at Beale Air Fest '97; Lt. Col. Gil Luloff Pilot; ? RSO

      [*]972/ #2023

      [*]973/ #2024

      [*]974/ #2025

      • Lost on 21 April 1989 near the Phillipines in the South China Sea. While climbing out from Kadena AB, Okinawa, the right engine exploded severing the hydraulic lines for the flight controls. Seeing the lowering hydraulic pressure the USAF PIlot: Lt. Col. Dan House headed for the nearest base, which was in the Phillipines, nearing the coast they lost all control of the SR and he and his RSO: Maj. Blair Bozek ejected safely landing just off the coast of the Phillipines. They were rescued by native fisherman shortly before US Rescue forces arrived. The SR was recovered after a lengthy salvage mission.

      [*]975/ #2026

      [*]976/ #2027

      [*]977/ #2028

      • Lost on 10 October 1968 at Beale AFB, CA. After returning from maintenance at Lockheed ADP, on take-off one of the wheel hubs exploded causing a fire, which engulfed the aircraft. USAF RSO: Maj. James Kogler ejected, Pilot: Maj.Gabriel Kardong elected to stay with the aircraft. Both crew members survived.

      [*]978/ #2029

      • Lost on 20 July 1972 at Kadena AB, Okinawa. Attemping to land with a severe crosswind, USAF PIlot: Capt. Dennis Bush had to abort the landing after deploying the braking chute. He jettisoned the chute and went around and attempted to land again, without the chute. The second attempt was too fast and the SR went off the end of the runway, ripping off the main landing gear and causing considerable damage to the underside of the aircraft. The RSO: Capt. James Fagg and pilot survived safely. This aircraft was known as"Rapid Rabbit". They tried to destroy the aircraft by burning it, but were not successful, it was buried near the end of the runway in a small hill, now known as Habu Mtn.

      [*]979/ #2030

      [*]980/ #2031/ NASA #844

      • Currently being flown by NASA as #844
      • Currently has Linear Aerospike engine mounted on it for LASRE tests.

      [*]981/ #2001

      • "C" model (trainer), built from front end of SR-71 static test model & aft end of YF-12 #934; On display at Hill AFB, UT

    AF Serial Numbers assigned for the SR-71: 61-17950 through 61-17985

    • Serial numbers 61-17982 through 61-17985 were not used

It's BEEN pulled off by the military - it is a documented fact.

And yet, even those aircraft have tail, part and serial numbers, flight and maintenance records.

.

You may have 43 years of experience (in related fields)....but, in this matter...you don't know what you're talking about

Of course I do! In fact, I have been called upon the Air Force OSI to vouch for the character of compatriots who were tagged for assignment at secret bases. I know a lot more than you think!

Edited by skyeagle409

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But, Sky, all that was faked. It's all part of The Conspiracy. Or one of them. :cry:

Now, the cat is out of the bag. How long will it take for someone to add a " 9/11 Never Happened" thread? :innocent:

Edited by skyeagle409

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Now, the cat is out of the bag. How long will it take for someone to add a " 9/11 Never Happened" thread? :innocent:

Of course, 9/11 happened. It kept 9/10 from bumping into 9/12. :whistle:

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Of course, 9/11 happened. It kept 9/10 from bumping into 9/12. :whistle:

Try explaining that to those who have claimed that no aircraft struck the WTC towers nor crashed at the Pentagon and near Shanksville. Somehow, they figure that 2 + 2 = 911

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Try explaining that to those who have claimed that no aircraft struck the WTC towers nor crashed at the Pentagon and near Shanksville. Somehow, they figure that 2 + 2 = 911

I heard that. I've changed tactics. Now I'm just enjoying the contradictions among the CTists. And, of course, pointing them out when I think of it. Trying to convince them that any part of the Official Version is true is like trying to herd cats. Well, no. Some accept parts of the OV but they pick and choose which ones they go along with. It's all really funny when you think about it.

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Look at the altitude profiles for each aircraft. Any experienced pilot would know those profiles are not flown by professional pilots.

You do realize that we're talking about a false flag op here, don't you?

It is supposed to look like goofballs are flying these planes.

So you want the crazed hijackers to look like professional pilots, for some reason?

It sure is and building aircraft in secret doesn't mean there are no records for such aircraft. I hope you didn't t think there were no records for the SR-71,. A-12, and the YF-12. I might add that the A-12 was faster and flew higher than the SR-71 and the YF-12.

And yet, even those aircraft have tail, part and serial numbers, flight and maintenance records.

The records could have been completely destroyed, if need be. Which means it never existed to

you or me. Get the point here? It existed. They had records. But it's up to them when/if we know about it's existence,

It's not hard to dispose of their records, if they want to.

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BR, there remains one major problem, that being that there are too many contradictory conspiracy theories. Until there can be agreement among all the CTists, there will always be those who believe the rest of the CTists are being deceived or are part of the conspiracy. Even here, you and Q24 don't even agree on everything.

The only common element is "The government lies" which is something no one will argue against. We all know governments lie as a part of doing business. Heck, we even elect people to office whom we know will lie through their teeth once they get there. And yet somehow we keep on electing them and re-electing them. So the question here is who's to blame, the politicians or the people who put them in office?

I speak only for myself. I am able to recognize the difference between facts and fantasy. Yes, I have some hunches about different possible scenarios, but I understand in my mind, and admit to anybody involved in the discussion that speculation is speculation and facts are facts.

So, all I really KNOW is that the official story is grossly inaccurate, and nothing more than a myth or fable that is NOT supported by the facts.

That is as simple as I can put it Kludge. I'm sorry if that is too sophisticated for you to understand. I've repeated here many times.

I don't really KNOW whodunnit and why, but I can sure offer some educated guesses.

All I really know is that the OCT is a hoax. The only part of it that is true is that 2 airplanes hit the towers.

Happy New Year.

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You do realize that we're talking about a false flag op here, don't you?

Yes! And, I know what has to be in place for a 9/11 false flag operation to work and I see no such indicators.

It is supposed to look like goofballs are flying these planes.

There were professional pilots flying the airliners when they took off and it was obvious they were not in control in the minutes before they aircraft crashed and professional pilots do not fly in that manner in positive controlled airspace and it was obvious the airliners were hijacked by hijackers who were not interested in maintaining assigned headings and altitudes. The fact the hijackers tampered with the transponders in positive controlled airspace was another indicator the airliners were hijacked.

So you want the crazed hijackers to look like professional pilots, for some reason?

From the specifics of the data, it was obvious the airliners were hijacked and they thought that turning off or switching the transponders would make the aircraft invisible on radar, which did not make the aircraft invisible on radar..

The records could have been completely destroyed if need be.

Not those kind of records.

Which means it never existed to you or me. Get the point here? It existed,...

There is no room for speculation. :no: Either you know, or you don't, and what I have read from 9/11 conspiracist is nothing more than disinformation, misinformation, and speculation which does not reflect on the reality of the way we do things in the real world.

Edited by skyeagle409

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I speak only for myself. I am able to recognize the difference between facts and fantasy.

Let's take a look. What crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11/2001? What crashed near Shanksville on 9/11/2001?

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I heard that. I've changed tactics. Now I'm just enjoying the contradictions among the CTists. And, of course, pointing them out when I think of it. Trying to convince them that any part of the Official Version is true is like trying to herd cats. Well, no. Some accept parts of the OV but they pick and choose which ones they go along with. It's all really funny when you think about it.

It is amazing that some CTists continue to claim the airliners were not real and that the aircraft were just holograms. What a joke!!

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