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Shabd Mystic

Hearing the Voice of God

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for posting, this was an awesome article. I especially enjoyed the sections comparing how magic and Christianity can have much in common once the politics and constructed polarities are discarded, and when the article mentioned that creating an inner-dialogue made her see a vision of druids outside her home, in the same manner those who do so with God might get messages back in some form, and how given the same techniques to Stanford students caused a few experiences where Leland Stanford Jr. appeared or spoke back.

Some call this movement the country's fourth Great Awakening—a reference to other eras in American history in which religious fervor shaped the national agenda.

http://alumni.stanfo...rticle_id=54818

I must agree that something is changing in America and it is simply moving away from dualism, that everything must be either right or wrong, to more integrative approaches that realize we have more in common and work better cooperating than competing.

You might be interested in the recent thread I posted, The Atheist at the Breakfast Table, containing a link the article of the same name written by Bruce Gierson. In it reveals why top ranked research scientiest who are also atheist attend church now. The intersection of science, academia, and spirituality is becoming more a place of understanding.

Edited by Lookitisoneofthosepeople
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Posted (edited)

Interesting article and it may well hold true for many people.

However it does not explain the god form which talks to people AND interacts physically with them, nor the god form which converses with people AND provides information in various forms which could not come from within their mind. This is the second single clearest evidence that a god form exists outside a persons mind ie when it educates instructs warns or other wise engages with your mind as an outside source of knowledge. The primary clearest evidence for the external existence of god is when the voice of god combines with the power of god to ACT physically in the physical world As far as I know apart from possible paranormal abilities A human mid simly cannot know the things god knows nor can it perfrm the miracles of physical transformation and manipulation which god performs.

I was first reluctantly convinced of the physical independent reality of god by a combination of the power of gods voice and the physical miracle he performed for me after telling me precisely what he was about to do. Since then god has continuously interacted with me in a verbal/ visual /physicall way, that my mind is simply not capable of imitating or reproducing.

For example my mind cannot produce a ten thousand watt being of light, visible to other people. My mind cannot know things from around the world inside other people's minds or across the solar system/universe. It cannot accurately see the potential future in dvd quality format. But god can, and he can pass that information on in a variety of forms.

It almost sounded as if the author was trying to find and explain a logical rationale for the way people construct belief in god and how a relationship with god can be created.

No harm in that either, as long as it does not deny the existence of a god outside and beyond such a construction. A real indpendent and powerful entity who also can sit down and have a cup of coffee and a discussion with you. Mind you, god only drinks decaf. :innocent: and even then, only in the spiritual sense.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Interesting article and it may well hold true for many people.

However it does not explain the god form which talks to people AND interacts physically with them, nor the god form which converses with people AND provides information in various forms which could not come from within their mind. This is the second single clearest evidence that a god form exists outside a persons mind ie when it educates instructs warns or other wise engages with your mind as an outside source of knowledge. The primary clearest evidence for the external existence of god is when the voice of god combines with the power of god to ACT physically in the physical world As far as I know apart from possible paranormal abilities A human mid simly cannot know the things god knows nor can it perfrm the miracles of physical transformation and manipulation which god performs.

I was first reluctantly convinced of the physical independent reality of god by a combination of the power of gods voice and the physical miracle he performed for me after telling me precisely what he was about to do. Since then god has continuously interacted with me in a verbal/ visual /physicall way, that my mind is simply not capable of imitating or reproducing.

For example my mind cannot produce a ten thousand watt being of light, visible to other people. My mind cannot know things from around the world inside other people's minds or across the solar system/universe. It cannot accurately see the potential future in dvd quality format. But god can, and he can pass that information on in a variety of forms.

It almost sounded as if the author was trying to find and explain a logical rationale for the way people construct belief in god and how a relationship with god can be created.

No harm in that either, as long as it does not deny the existence of a god outside and beyond such a construction. A real indpendent and powerful entity who also can sit down and have a cup of coffee and a discussion with you. Mind you, god only drinks decaf. :innocent: and even then, only in the spiritual sense.

Did you ever hear the voice of God as a human voice, or is it usually indirect?

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I don't hear anything.

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If you talk to god - that's normal

If god talks back- that's schizophrenia

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If you talk to god - that's normal

If god talks back- that's schizophrenia

lol...though, that statement takes for granted that your belief, or lack thereof, is correct. Conversely, that other beliefs are not only wrong, but crazy as well. Attacking the believer is not nice :P Yes, if you hear an unexplained voice, it can be a mental disease or a prank/being fooled. The possibility to a believer that that voice could be a spirit/God is also there. Discounting it would be discounting his/her faith.

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lol...though, that statement takes for granted that your belief, or lack thereof, is correct. Conversely, that other beliefs are not only wrong, but crazy as well. Attacking the believer is not nice :P Yes, if you hear an unexplained voice, it can be a mental disease or a prank/being fooled. The possibility to a believer that that voice could be a spirit/God is also there. Discounting it would be discounting his/her faith.

My comment was a little mischievous but still mostly accurate.

I would say though that not everybody who hears voices has schizophrenia. But I've yet to meet anyone who hears a genuine, not internally generated, disembodied voice.

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My comment was a little mischievous but still mostly accurate.

I would say though that not everybody who hears voices has schizophrenia. But I've yet to meet anyone who hears a genuine, not internally generated, disembodied voice.

How would you know if it were genuine? It's always assumed to be schizophrenia.

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It's always assumed to be schizophrenia.

Not by people who know what they're talking about. Abusers who exploit the mentally ill for fun and to demean healthy people who disagree with them very likely don't fit into that category.

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How would you know if it were genuine? It's always assumed to be schizophrenia.

I would never claim to know anything with certainty but it is the most parsimonious explanation.

We know for a fact that auditory hallucinations have a pathological explanation, but no such certainty that their origin is supernatural. In fact I would go as far to say that there is no good evidence at all for it.

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Posted (edited)

We know for a fact that auditory hallucinations have a pathological explanation

No, what we actually know for a fact is that auditory hallucinations are inevitable in any physical system capable of hearing. That principle, usually called receiver operating characteristic, searchable, applies also to any classification of acoustical phenomena by physical means. So, if a person can hear and understand speech normally, then they will sometimes hear speech when there is no speaker.

In a mentally healthy person, how these events are interpreted when they occur, as they must sometimes occur in physical processing of speech, will reflect their beliefs about possible sources of speech.

A rational person whose belief in God stands at the level of Levi's "serious possibility," if they live long enough, will hear what they consider to be God possibly speaking to them. That's each and every speech-hearing person who does not rule out the existence of God.

The only persons who won't interpret some acoustical perception-event as the serious possibility that God spoke to them are those who die (or lose their hearing, etc.) too soon, and those who couldn't hear God speaking to them if he did speak to them. Everyone else, literally everyione else, will have the experience.

Edited by eight bits

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If you talk to god - that's normal

If god talks back- that's schizophrenia

I would say both are questionable...

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Posted (edited)

Did you ever hear the voice of God as a human voice, or is it usually indirect?

God communicates in many forms. Those include a particular inner voice (which is different to the many other inner voices which express themselvs to me as part of my multiple intelligences; eg the voice of logic/ reason, the voice of emotion, the voice of intuition, the voices of philosophy ethics moralities etc.) I jave learned through long learned expereince ot both recognise and obey this voice instantly. That instant obedience has saved my life on many occasions and that of my wife on a number, also.

Second, god can and does speak out loud using created sound waves so that i and others can hear him. This may emanate from an avatar of god like a being of light or a an angel appearing as a human being.

Or the external and physical voice may simply come out of thin air. (as can physical manifestations of god, appearing like a hologram or a transmat arrival)

I know the voice of god because it provides specific warnings information, lessons, and instructions or predictions, which could not come from my own individual consciousness or any of my inner voices. For example a voice speaks to me and says, "stop now, because in 15 seconds a red truck is going to run the red light at the next intersection, and if you are entering it you will be killed"

So i pull up on the green light and sure enough a red truck cuts across the intersection where i would have been. That sort of thing happens regularly, and much more on a minor scale.

God can and does speak to me through other humans. I have had a number walk up to me and say "god told me to tell you this " God also communicates in visions dreams etc. Again the nature of these dreams is made evident by their accuracy and clarity of prediction Finally, god can communicate using natural things like a radio or television, especially where there is a need to convince a number of people who might not believe my inner voice of god, but can't deny the reality of the voice of a radio or tv announcer

Oh, but the most common form of communication is a sort of "vulcan mind meld", by which god simply implants knowledge, power, strength, courage, calmness, etc., into my mind. No words or even visual imagery is required. It is as if i now have knowledge which i learned, but it has been placed directly into my mind. It is this form of knowledge which allows me simply to know where lost or stolen objects are and to know what is in the minds of others, on occasions.

Ps the voice of god in trees and naturee is another form of the voice of god but i do not use that much. It is verifiable by listening to the voice of trees and then geting other peole to listen to the Each tree tells different people/listeners the same story and uses a similar voice for each listener I once had a tree tell me the winner of that years melbourne cup and made a few dollars on it. Another one told me the winner of that years brownlow medal (australias main football medal. And i dont even follow the football) Those too IMO are voices of the universal god or the cosmic consciousness.

PS unlike most i have a certifiable and complete bill of health both psychologically and neurologically. There is nothing crazy about talking to or listening to a being who gives great power and gifts.

Edited by Mr Walker

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Posted (edited)

I know the voice of god because it provides specific warnings information, lessons, and instructions or predictions, which could not come from my own individual consciousness or any of my inner voices. For example a voice speaks to me and says, "stop now, because in 15 seconds a red truck is going to run the red light at the next intersection, and if you are entering it you will be killed"

So i pull up on the green light and sure enough a red truck cuts across the intersection where i would have been. That sort of thing happens regularly, and much more on a minor scale.

God can and does speak to me through other humans. I have had a number walk up to me and say "god told me to tell you this " God also communicates in visions dreams etc.

Oh, but the most common form of communication is a sort of "vulcan mind meld", by which god simply implants knowledge, power, strength, courage, calmness, etc., into my mind.

I've had some of these experiences as well. I didn't associate it with God per-se, but didn't know what to make of them either. One is very similar to yours. I was driving 4 friends to their homes in the early morning. They were all fast asleep. At a solid green light (had been for a while) I got this sudden compulsion to stop for no reason. There was no one visible on the road (early morning) and no reason to do it, but I did it anyway. When I hit the brakes, a motorcycle running a red light passed at very high speeds right through the intersection. That cyclist would have certainly died if I didn't hit the breaks, and maybe someone in my car seriously injured or killed.

About people giving you messages. I've had strangers turn to me and spontaneously told me things that were very relevant to my life at the moment on several occasions. I talked about one in my thread on this section of the forum.

About the vulcan mind meld. One time I was out with my cousin when we found out there was a family emergency. We ran to my cousin's mom's car to go to it. To our suprise his mother had bought one of those clubs you put on the steering wheel to protect them from theft. It was a combination lock with 12 pegs that could be up or down. Any number of them could be up or down according to the person who bought it. The mathematical amount of possible combinations is in the millions. Somehow I instantly knew the combination which involved 5 pegs down and 7 up in a non-obvious order. Dialed it in as if I had done it dozens of times before, removed the club and we were on our way. My cousin absolutely astonished and saying "how is that possible?" the whole way.

Edited by solaries

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The only persons who won't interpret some acoustical perception-event as the serious possibility that God spoke to them are those who die (or lose their hearing, etc.) too soon, and those who couldn't hear God speaking to them if he did speak to them. Everyone else, literally everyione else, will have the experience.

I have heard voices out of thin air a few times in my life. Maybe 3. I never associated them with a God though. They didn't makes sense as such. For example, when I was 4 I heard my father say, "I'm hooooome!" as he usually did, yet he didn't actually arrive home from work until half an hour later. When I heard the voice I went to greet him but there was no one there. I told my mother but she dismissed it without giving it a second thought.

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No, what we actually know for a fact is .........

Ha!

I missed the word " can" out of my post and sent you off on one.

Sorry about that

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I have heard voices out of thin air a few times in my life. Maybe 3. I never associated them with a God though. They didn't makes sense as such. For example, when I was 4 I heard my father say, "I'm hooooome!" as he usually did, yet he didn't actually arrive home from work until half an hour later. When I heard the voice I went to greet him but there was no one there. I told my mother but she dismissed it without giving it a second thought.

That's fairly typical.

What's inevitable is for a hearing person to hear voices mistakenly once in a while. How any particular incident is interpreted will depend on the setting and the set, as well as beliefs about the range of possible sources, and how similar experiences have been interpreted in the past.

In other words, credally consistent interpretation of experienced sensation is the essence of rationality and the hallmark of mental health.

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God communicates in many forms. Those include a particular inner voice (which is different to the many other inner voices which express themselvs to me as part of my multiple intelligences; eg the voice of logic/ reason, the voice of emotion, the voice of intuition, the voices of philosophy ethics moralities etc.) I jave learned through long learned expereince ot both recognise and obey this voice instantly. That instant obedience has saved my life on many occasions and that of my wife on a number, also.

Second, god can and does speak out loud using created sound waves so that i and others can hear him. This may emanate from an avatar of god like a being of light or a an angel appearing as a human being.

Or the external and physical voice may simply come out of thin air. (as can physical manifestations of god, appearing like a hologram or a transmat arrival)

I know the voice of god because it provides specific warnings information, lessons, and instructions or predictions, which could not come from my own individual consciousness or any of my inner voices. For example a voice speaks to me and says, "stop now, because in 15 seconds a red truck is going to run the red light at the next intersection, and if you are entering it you will be killed"

So i pull up on the green light and sure enough a red truck cuts across the intersection where i would have been. That sort of thing happens regularly, and much more on a minor scale.

God can and does speak to me through other humans. I have had a number walk up to me and say "god told me to tell you this " God also communicates in visions dreams etc. Again the nature of these dreams is made evident by their accuracy and clarity of prediction Finally, god can communicate using natural things like a radio or television, especially where there is a need to convince a number of people who might not believe my inner voice of god, but can't deny the reality of the voice of a radio or tv announcer

Oh, but the most common form of communication is a sort of "vulcan mind meld", by which god simply implants knowledge, power, strength, courage, calmness, etc., into my mind. No words or even visual imagery is required. It is as if i now have knowledge which i learned, but it has been placed directly into my mind. It is this form of knowledge which allows me simply to know where lost or stolen objects are and to know what is in the minds of others, on occasions.

Ps the voice of god in trees and naturee is another form of the voice of god but i do not use that much. It is verifiable by listening to the voice of trees and then geting other peole to listen to the Each tree tells different people/listeners the same story and uses a similar voice for each listener I once had a tree tell me the winner of that years melbourne cup and made a few dollars on it. Another one told me the winner of that years brownlow medal (australias main football medal. And i dont even follow the football) Those too IMO are voices of the universal god or the cosmic consciousness.

PS unlike most i have a certifiable and complete bill of health both psychologically and neurologically. There is nothing crazy about talking to or listening to a being who gives great power and gifts.

I too have had similar experiences, but I have attributed it to the soul rather than specifically to god. Really, it's probably the same thing and we just use different terminology, but I think of the soul as partially seperate from god as I view any such being as more of a passive force (as related to this universe) and that the only direct interaction is usually carried out by the soul - if people listen to it.

I've had very strong impressions that I shouldn't take a specific route to get to a certain place, at times when I've ignored the impression I've either been in an accident or a near miss, times when I took the alternate route were uneventful. At one time I knew there would be a deer in the road, and there was one around a bend that had I not said anything before the bend, we probably would have hit.

The reason I attribute it more to a soul / collective unconsciousness is because it most often involves other people... I know what they're thinking or they respond to something I've not said aloud, I know when someone is going to call me, things like that are the most common.

The information I get usually isn't so much in words as it is impressions or images. I almost never hear a voice telling me things - audibly or in my head - I just know. It's the same way I get ideas for my artwork too, the images just appear in my head, like I'm seeing a photograph or stillframe of something.

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Being schizophrenic is another way of being that isn't conducive towards being a productive member of society. If it was, we would train our children to become schizophrenic and that would be the social norm.

Let's just let society dictate to us what our disorders are? Pfft. The psychiatric explanations are no more compelling than the religious ones to me.

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If God chooses to speak to you, you don't need to specially do anything. If you choose to speak to God, fasting may help to show your sincerety though.

If God chooses to speak to you He will first have to prove to you that He's God. That's why prophets are almost exclusively have supernatural experience through which God will give you the proof that He's God. He may give you something that you didn't even notice at first, or noticed that didn't what it meant to say. Then you may use the rest of your life to study who God is then all of a sudden you may notice that He gave you something which can actually distinguish Him from any other spirits. In some other situations, He may give you the proof which allows you to recognise that He's God right away.

But anyway before He actually choose to speak to you, He will first identify Himself or leave you with some clues that in you later study you'll be able to distinguish Him from any other spirits. The second characteristics of 'God speaking to you' is that He can confirm His own messages through futuric events. For example, He allows you to make of prophecy then make it come to pass as a proof that you are actually holding God's message. Actually if you are truly holding God's message, you will be able to see miracles after miracles, signs after signs, prophecies after prophecies till you no longer doubt. So whenver you doubt that whether it's your delutions, He will give signs and prophecies related to the message you are holding.

For an example, When God asks you to deliver a cup to a certain place. He properly will speak to you with a voice or give you a dream to instruct you what to do with the cup. On the other hand, you may doubt that may be the voice is your own delution, the dream may be just an coincidence. He will then confirm His own message by giving out miracles or prophecies (anyway exclusively brain-free and future-related). Say, He will give you another dream to say that "tomorrow when you wake up, you shall see that there's a crack in the cup you are going to delievered". So you woke up and found that the originally good cup suddenly is with a noticeable crack on it. Then you can doubt again to say that "perhaps the crack was already there that I just didn't notice". Then He will give yet another dream to say that tomorrow when you wake up, you shall see the crack disappears". So the next morning you would find that the crack was gone.

This is just the basics, He can actually convey truly complicated messages that it may go so complicated that if they may drive you insane if not delivered properly.

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I think some people mistake their own conscience as god.

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History's great mystics, including Jesus Himself, have taught that many things can be seen or heard that mimic God and are anything but.

That includes voices, prophesies and miracles.

It's the human ego that lets us believe that "I" am even worthy of such things that allows us to be so taken in.

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The aspect of Luhrmann's work that involves prayer style, and especially students channeling Leland Stanford, Jr., is discussed here

http://uncertaintist.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/tulpas-the-latest-thinking-about-thought-forms-from-stanford/

The blog article shows that in addition to the connections that Luhrmann herself makes among magical practices, prayer and the evocation of historical figures, there is a larger nexus that includes Jungian psychology, paranormal investigation, Tibetan mysticism and one of The Secret's source, Napoleon Hill.

I have also posted this link at the current (actually a few years old, but often revived) thread on tulpas, the Tibetan word for vividly experienced, apparently autonomous people and other beings that people have summoned up using the sorts of techniques Luhrmann investigates.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=139077

One post (# 36) in that thread has linkss to other UM discussions of the thought-form phenomenon. Some of that discussion concerns the phenomenon as a potential comprehensive explanation for a variety of things that are debated here at UM, including the nature of religious experience and its origins. There are also excerpts from two classic reports, Alexandra David-Neel's "monk" (post # 22) and Carl Jung's Philemon (post # 34).

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Posted (edited)

I've had some of these experiences as well. I didn't associate it with God per-se, but didn't know what to make of them either. One is very similar to yours. I was driving 4 friends to their homes in the early morning. They were all fast asleep. At a solid green light (had been for a while) I got this sudden compulsion to stop for no reason. There was no one visible on the road (early morning) and no reason to do it, but I did it anyway. When I hit the brakes, a motorcycle running a red light passed at very high speeds right through the intersection. That cyclist would have certainly died if I didn't hit the breaks, and maybe someone in my car seriously injured or killed.

About people giving you messages. I've had strangers turn to me and spontaneously told me things that were very relevant to my life at the moment on several occasions. I talked about one in my thread on this section of the forum.

About the vulcan mind meld. One time I was out with my cousin when we found out there was a family emergency. We ran to my cousin's mom's car to go to it. To our suprise his mother had bought one of those clubs you put on the steering wheel to protect them from theft. It was a combination lock with 12 pegs that could be up or down. Any number of them could be up or down according to the person who bought it. The mathematical amount of possible combinations is in the millions. Somehow I instantly knew the combination which involved 5 pegs down and 7 up in a non-obvious order. Dialed it in as if I had done it dozens of times before, removed the club and we were on our way. My cousin absolutely astonished and saying "how is that possible?" the whole way.

According to experts ive spoken with, including psychologists and psychiatrists, such experiences are VERY common in humans In my case the nature contextaulisation and embedding of them over a period of time, led me to create and test some hypotheses i began considering as a child. As results vindicated these hypotheses i refined them. Eventually i was led to a workable but not exclusive hypotheseis by which I live extremely successfully. I found that the more one opens onself to this consciousness the more it works with you and the more sensitive you become to it. I found it very similar to the process of learning and utilising logical thought.

I had fogotten a similar experience with a 4 digit lock (10000 combinations .) A student in my class wanted to open another students guitar case which was locked with such a combination lock. I just "knew" the combination, and said, "try ****." The case opened and i was left trying to explain to the student how i knew the combination.

Edited by Mr Walker

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