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Roswell UFO Was Not Of This Earth


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I can't tell you what color they really were, since I only saw them in black and white pictures. LOL.

Im keepin my SamsungIII with that new snappy,Slappy transporter function ! I plan to slap me a Little green E.T right onto the World wide web in Fool Color !

It will no doubt go viral in seconds

!

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So many people have been giving half truths and false stories for 65 years. I doubt anyone knows what the truth is anymore. The real incident could have occured elsewhere and Roswell was one of several red herring events. This guy is promoting a book so I wouldn't take it as a correct speculation on his part. He wasn't there. I believe people who were in that time and were there and "elsewhere". Those people dare not say what they know and they have to feed the public half truths for many reasons.

People should think of WHY the government still wouldn't be able to release such an event. People got freaked over War of the Worlds on the radio. The government may have believed the aliens might need a time line to return, so we are prepped for that day by the scifi stuff that came out on TV. We aren't in that age anymore so the real question is why wouldn't the government want to be transparent now.

Now to a real "alien" event, we'd definitely want their technology or have others nations believe it is ours. The bomb was being developed, Tesla experimented and said he got messages from outer space then discovered the good and bad energies, German scientists were recruited and developing stuff with the US research and development for weapons. One President says to his people, don't shoot them down because who or whatever they are, are way beyond us and we don't want them as an enemy.

Now if a real space or space time traveler came and a government got a hold of them and a ship that crashed or that was shot down what is the logical thing to do ? R & D send it to a foreign technology analysis lab far away from the site and any survivors or pieces of a survivor to a military burn center for study. Cloak and dagger and conspiracies start because everyone is human and wants the power but its top secret and they all only have pieces of the truth and have NO clue as to what they the aliens have or why they are here. If we were so helplessly behind technology wise and they knew we were coming to close to something and would become a threat, say like a seeing a kid with a stick of dynomite and a lit match. They or their drones would be here for their own research and development...

We were behind in technology so leaders with the need to know would want to be their allies and keep what they discover to themselves. Now the powers that be discover many things and do their own black projects under the protective guise of crazy alien abductions. No social responsibilty if the aliens did it or the witnesses were made to appear more crazy then they already become from PTSD. I could see the public outrage that our brightest military intelligences didn't have enough answers and were only bluffing that they knew more when they didn't.

I think something along these lines could be why a government wouldn't want to reveal a real alien contact. People would find out too much about the things that weren't alien. Follow the money as they say. Could you imagine all the lawsuits and conspiracy people being more anti-government when too many things came out at once, not to mention the poor guys "in the know" who would have to disappear?

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Do you want my best guess where they would be, if they still exist and were declassified? I say this because Robert Sarbacher and Eric Walker were involved with this organization, and we know they were also involved in UFO investigations, and even in UFO crashes--or so they said many years later.

Record Group 330.11.3 Records of the Research and Development Board

Textual Records: Records relating to fiscal and budgetary aspects of research and development programs, 1946-53. Records relating to new weapons and equipment, 1942-45. Progress reports of army, navy, and air force weapons research, 1946-54. Biological warfare reports, 1946-60. Minutes of meetings of the Executive Council, 1946-50. Records of the Committee on Technical Information, 1946-53.

And possibly here:

Record Group 330.11.1 General records

Textual Records: Research and engineering policy records, 1953-57. Subject files of the Committee on Aeronautical Facilities, 1954-57.

330.13.1 Records of the Executive Committee

Textual Records: Correspondence, 1945-47.

330.13.2 Records of the Office of the Chairman of the Board

Textual Records: Records relating to procurement, production, and allocation of military and naval material and equipment, and to industrial mobilization, 1942-53. Organizational and historical records of the board, 1921-53. Correspondence of Gen. Leroy Lutes, Chairman, 1948. Correspondence relating to surveys of aircraft procurement and appropriations for the armed forces, 1948. Records of the historian and special assistant to the chairman, 1948-53. Records maintained by Chairmen Donald F. Carpenter, Hubert E. Howard, and Thomas J. Hargrave, 1947-50. Records of the acting chairman and deputy chairman, 1947-50. Records of the Procurement Policy Council, 1946-53.

http://www.archives....0.html#330.11.3

I wonder what secret document Karlis thinks the government have squirreled away though? He seems rather specific in his accusation. Also as far as the media goes, not that anyone who wants information accurately reported would bother with this path, they already have been made available the archives on Roswell and televised by the History Channel, but when they opened them we got the old "evidence was switched" story. Unless they open a box and a little green man pops out like a jack in the box, a contingent will never be satisfied and claim cover up based on belief.

If those men wanted to expose something like this, would they not have pocketed something, or have something at home they could use? Just hearing words year after year gets a little tiresome. So many people have ET clams but nothing to back them, one wonders the point of going to the media with these claims to begin with. Nothing in history along these lines has ever worked, why keep beating the same dead horse?

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Hi psyche101, where can I read Lost Shamans excellent hypothesis. Is it in a thread on here?

It is in the BE thread, part 3 I think, I will have a look for a link.

In a nutshell it basically says that the USAF wanted to study the UFO phenomena in peace, so they staged Roswell. The Twining memo seems to support this conclusion as does the find at the Brazel ranch, and the other RAWIN finds around that time frame. Not to mention not a single shred of evidence exists to support the debris field claim, it relies 100% on testimony, which is heavily conflicting.

Edited by psyche101
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But we could be Ruled by littel Green Men/Strike that Frog`s !

If LGM arrive looking like that, for their sakes I hope they do not crash in France.

froglegdish2.gif

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They already have been made available the archives on Roswell and televised by the History Channel, but when they opened them we got the old "evidence was switched" story. Unless they open a box and a little green man pops out like a jack in the box, a contingent will never be satisfied and claim cover up based on belief.

I gave people some good advice where to look for UFO records that are probably highly classified. That's all I can do at this point, Psyche, and probably more than I should be doing.

I would never used the word "switched", either, because they have probably been security segregated from the ones released to the archives.

I think you understand what I'm getting at here, but I can make no promises. This is the most I can do here.

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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Do you know what's ever sadder? Many Air Force records from 1946-50 are lost, missing or destroyed.

http://www.fas.org/s...ov/roswell.html

Actually, the records the GAO had a whinge about were destroyed officially and within USAF guidelines. WG Siebert from the GAO challenged the first draft of the GAO report, and lambasted it greatly claiming inaccuracies, and specifically, that these very records claimed to be destroyed without reason were routinely destroyed or removed well within Air Force guidelines. I had a post on it some time back in the old Skyeagle days. The Air Force manual itself confirms this paragraph 53b manual 181-5. That part says that any records accumulated at wing level or below are to be scheduled as one item and destroyed after 2 years.

This draft report of the GAO report was not supposed to go out to the public until these items had been verified and the report altered for accuracy. However, in his desperation to get some public interest and back into the limelight, not to mention a favourable light in his public Roswell escapade, Schiff forced the draft copy out to the press before the mistakes could be corrected. His one red tape was the only thing stopping the general public from finding out exactly what the real story is.

Congressman Schiff is a prime example of what is wrong with UFOlogy today IMHO.

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It is in the BE thread, part 3 I think, I will have a look for a link.

In a nutshell it basically says that the USAF wanted to study the UFO phenomena in peace, so they staged Roswell. The Twining memo seems to support this conclusion as does the find at the Brazel ranch, and the other RAWIN finds around that time frame. Not to mention not a single shred of evidence exists to support the debris field claim, it relies 100% on testimony, which is heavily conflicting.

I think the studies of UFOs began earlier, and I have seen some records to that effect, but the amount of publicity and media attention in the big UFO waves from 1947 onward was much greater than in the past, and we know that they had policies to deal with that. In my opinion, someone really tried to put the lid down after the 1952 wave, but the amount of attention paid to this subject has always waxed and waned.

You're probably right that they prefer the quiet periods between the big waves, when no one is paying much attention, but the UFOs don't necessarily cooperate.

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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Actually, the records the GAO had a whinge about were destroyed officially and within USAF guidelines. WG Siebert from the GAO challenged the first draft of the GAO report, and lambasted it greatly claiming inaccuracies, and specifically, that these very records claimed to be destroyed without reason were routinely destroyed or removed well within Air Force guidelines. I had a post on it some time back in the old Skyeagle days. The Air Force manual itself confirms this paragraph 53b manual 181-5. That part says that any records accumulated at wing level or below are to be scheduled as one item and destroyed after 2 years.

This draft report of the GAO report was not supposed to go out to the public until these items had been verified and the report altered for accuracy. However, in his desperation to get some public interest and back into the limelight, not to mention a favourable light in his public Roswell escapade, Schiff forced the draft copy out to the press before the mistakes could be corrected. His one red tape was the only thing stopping the general public from finding out exactly what the real story is.

Congressman Schiff is a prime example of what is wrong with UFOlogy today IMHO.

As you can see here just from Record Group 342, for example, the destruction was not total, and some of these records of units go back many years. I'd be careful stating what the actual policy was or how it was applied since that seems to have been very "uneven".

I do not doubt that Schiff turned out to be a thorn in their side, making requests along these lines that were unusual (and unwelcome) coming from a member of Congress.

http://www.archives....groups/342.html

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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I wonder if there was ever any interesting UFO stuff in here? I bet you there probably was.

342.3 RECORDS OF THE ENGINEERING DIVISION AND ITS PREDECESSORS

1916-51

History: Airplane Engineering Department, Aviation Section, Office of the Chief Signal Officer, U.S. Army, established October 13, 1917. Redesignated Airplane Engineering Division and transferred to Bureau of Aircraft Production, August 31, 1918. Redesignated Technical Division, January 1, 1919. Redesignated Engineering Division, Air Service, May 13, 1919. Redesignated Materiel Division, Air Corps, October 15, 1926. Redesignated Materiel Center (MC), Army Air Forces (AAF), March 6, 1942. Redesignated Air Force Materiel Command (AFMC), by General Order 16, MC, April 6, 1942. New organization, designated Engineering Division, established under AFMC by Notice 103, AFMC, June 7, 1942. AFMC redesignated successively Materiel Command, April 15, 1943; AAF Materiel Command, June 15, 1944; AAF Materiel and Services Command, summer 1944; AAF Technical Service Command, September 1, 1944; Air Technical Service Command, July 1, 1945; and Air Materiel Command (AMC), March 13, 1946. Engineering Division transferred from AMC to Air Research and Development Command (ARDC) by Notice 77, AMC, April 3, 1951. ARDC redesignated Air Force Systems Command (AFSC); and Engineering Division redesignated Aeronautical Systems Division of AFSC, effective April 1, 1961, by Letter AFOMO 590M, Department of the Air Force (DAF), March 20, 1961.

Note: For administrative histories of the air force organization at the highest echelon, SEE 18.1, 18.2, 18.5, 18.7, 341.1, and 341.2.

Textual Records: Central decimal correspondence, 1916-49 (1,774 ft.). Research and development project contract files, 1921-51 (3,438 ft.). Microfilm copy of research and development technical reports, 1928-51 (400 rolls).

Related Records: Records of the Bureau of Aeronautics, RG 72.

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I gave people some good advice where to look for UFO records that are probably highly classified. That's all I can do at this point, Psyche, and probably more than I should be doing.

I would never used the word "switched", either, because they have probably been security segregated from the ones released to the archives.

I think you understand what I'm getting at here, but I can make no promises. This is the most I can do here.

Oh no, sorry McGuffin, I was not indicating that you were saying there is more to this, just pointing out that Karlis seems to be looking for a specific folder. I would agree with you the records from the time frame would be by far the very best place to investigate the clam. Sorry for any confusion. An excellent link to some pertinent information, thank you.

Edited by psyche101
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I'm more familiar with what's in Record Group 338, which is one of the biggest of all (Records of US Army Commands), such as Headquarters, European Command (EUCOM), but in the past the Air Force was still part of the Army. That's an important fact that often gets forgotten in the study of UFOs.

342.6 RECORDS OF AIR FORCE BASES

1945-68

Note: This subgroup includes approximately 2 lin. ft. of records in process of reallocation from Record Group 338, Records of U.S. Army Commands, 1942-. Summary descriptions of these records are enclosed in braces {}.

http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/342.html

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As you can see here just from Record Group 342, for example, the destruction was not total, and some of these records of units go back many years. I'd be careful stating what the actual policy was or how it was applied since that seems to have been very "uneven".

Some records have to be kept though, depending on content, we still have some aspects of black ops from a very long time ago that are still being tested and considered for todays applications. As such, it is understandable why such records would not be for public eyes. But the records that were destroyed were not destroyed illegally as per Schiffs claim, and the GAO knew this. They were destroyed according the the USAF manual. Nothing untoward as was suggested.

I do not doubt that Schiff turned out to be a thorn in their side, making requests along these lines that were unusual (and unwelcome) coming from a member of Congress.

http://www.archives....groups/342.html

I would not consider him a thorn, more of a PITA. He released the draft version of the report as the official version, knowing it had holes in it. That is a public disservice. He jumped up and down at his own red tape. And in the end, he accomplished no more than adding to the rumour mill. As far as I am aware, the GAOwere unable to so much as dent the hypothesis put forth by McAndrews. All Schiff did was slow the investigation with his demands.

Colonel Richard Weaver said of the investigation:

...there was no indication in official records from the period that there was heightened military operational or security activity which should have been generated if this was, in fact, the first recovery of materials and /or persons from another world. The postwar U.S. military (or today's for that matter) did not have the capability to rapidly identify, recover, coordinate, cover up, and quickly minimize public scrutiny of such an event. The claim that they did so without leaving even a little bit of a suspicious paper trail for 47 years is incredible.
Edited by psyche101
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If LGM arrive looking like that, for their sakes I hope they do not crash in France.

froglegdish2.gif

Now were Cookin ! Thats what Im talking about ! Proof 100% Proof that were not alone Seat me by those frog legs and lets Eat !

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As we know, Phil Klass had his own version of the destruction of the Air Force records, although I always had good reason not to take anything he said as coin of the realm. I have caught his "misstating" the facts of more than one UFO case in his eagerness to find some type of "explanation", without even trying very hard.

Even according to Klass, though, the records center in St. Louis admitted to destroying documents sometime in the 1950s, although naturally they vehemently denied any wrongdoing forty years after the fact.

We have no way of knowing whether any of those records were related to UFOs.

http://dagmar.lunarpages.com/~parasc2/nb/0996/ros.htm

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The final GAO report merely states:

"In our search for records concerning the Roswell crash, we learned that

some government records covering RAAF activities had been destroyed and

others had not. For example, RAAF administrative records (from Mar. 1945

through Dec. 1949) and RAAF outgoing messages (from Oct. 1946 through

Dec. 1949) were destroyed. The document disposition form does not

indicate what organization or person destroyed the records and when or

under what authority the records were destroyed.

Document disposition forms obtained from the National Personnel

Records Center in St. Louis, Missouri, indicate that in 1953, the Walker Air

Force Base (formerly RAAF) records officer transferred to the Army’s

Kansas City records depository the histories of units stationed at Walker

Air Force Base. These histories included the 509th Bomb Group and RAAF

for February 1947 through October 1947; the 1st Air Transport Unit for

July 1946 through June 1947; and the 427th Army Air Force Base Unit for

January 1946 to February 1947."

http://www.gao.gov/assets/230/221509.pdf

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The final GAO report goes on to say:

"In addition to unit history reports, we also searched for other government

records on the Roswell crash. In this regard, the Chief Archivist for the

National Personnel Records Center provided us with documentation

indicating that (1) RAAF records such as finance and accounting, supplies,

buildings and grounds, and other general administrative matters from

March 1945 through December 1949 and (2) RAAF outgoing messages from

October 1946 through December 1949 were destroyed. According to this

official, the document disposition form did not properly indicate the

authority under which the disposal action was taken. The Center’s Chief

Archivist stated that from his personal experience, many of the Air Force

organizational records covering this time period were destroyed without

entering a citation for the governing disposition authority. Our review of

records control forms showing the destruction of other

records—including outgoing RAAF messages for 1950—supports the Chief

Archivist’s viewpoint."

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You know Mac-G do you remember about three years ago ,I told everyone about WPAFB and a very High ranked officer I got to meet,and His Dad was Hard core A.F actually was involved in the setting up of this base.

THis man Lives in Albq, N.M across from my Father-n-Law. Really big Ham operator and Retired Col. WEll this guy did say some really great things are underground at Wright Pat !

Would not at all go into the details ! His responce ,is like all we all have heard before ! Were not on the need to know List !

But the Look in his eyes told the tale !

THousands of Air hours, Lots of real time events. Makes me to this day want to know what he knows ?

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You know Mac-G do you remember about three years ago ,I told everyone about WPAFB and a very High ranked officer I got to meet,and His Dad was Hard core A.F actually was involved in the setting up of this base.

THis man Lives in Albq, N.M across from my Father-n-Law. Really big Ham operator and Retired Col. WEll this guy did say some really great things are underground at Wright Pat !

Would not at all go into the details ! His responce ,is like all we all have heard before ! Were not on the need to know List !

But the Look in his eyes told the tale !

THousands of Air hours, Lots of real time events. Makes me to this day want to know what he knows ?

I don't remember that one. I don't think I've been around here nearly that long, but time goes by so quickly.

I count myself lucky that I was able to find out as much about UFOs as I did, including that one crash, which I am certain was not in Roswell and occurred at least 6-7 years later.

In that lecture I heard, there was no mention of the Roswell case at all. Nothing that I can recall. As to where they took the wreckage and bodies, I have never known. Nothing was said about that either.

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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  • I remember WPAFB. When I was vacationing by there in the 80's after Jimmy Carter pushed for public release, I went through a lot of the just released archives for fun. It was a joke most everything interesting was blacked out. Years before, I heard about the underground from a woman who said she saw a certain body part that was taken there but she had no clue where the crash was.....It seemed strange, things happening that long ago were still blacked out because of national security. The air museum was great. But the base itself gives you a very "creepy" feeling if your sensiitive, and then you feel you really don't want to know about what really went on there.

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I wasn't in the CIA, but Army intelligence, and as I said a few times before, I was also shown pictures and documents that featured a UFO crash and three dead aliens. It wasn't the Roswell crash, however, but took place sometime in the early-1950s.

I'm not writing a book, though, and I never will, nor am I interested in getting my 15 minutes of fame. In fact, I would not be allowed to publish anything in the U.S. without permission, but I don't think it does any harm to refer to UFO cases that have already been revealed to the public, one way or another. Many of the ones I first heard about years ago, before they were public knowledge, have been disclosed in the years since, but not all of them.

I do feel ambivalent about whether the public even has the right or the need to know all of this information, and how the people would handle the fact that ET civilizations are real, that there are many of them, and that some have been visiting here for a very long time.

In any case, I am not interested in calling a press conference or trying to get a book published about what I know, not even an altered and fictionalized account like this guy did.

MacGuffin, could you describe what the alien look like from the pictures? Would love to get an idea of what they look like if possible.

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The final GAO report goes on to say:

"In addition to unit history reports, we also searched for other government

records on the Roswell crash. In this regard, the Chief Archivist for the

National Personnel Records Center provided us with documentation

indicating that (1) RAAF records such as finance and accounting, supplies,

buildings and grounds, and other general administrative matters from

March 1945 through December 1949 and (2) RAAF outgoing messages from

October 1946 through December 1949 were destroyed. According to this

official, the document disposition form did not properly indicate the

authority under which the disposal action was taken. The Center’s Chief

Archivist stated that from his personal experience, many of the Air Force

organizational records covering this time period were destroyed without

entering a citation for the governing disposition authority. Our review of

records control forms showing the destruction of other

records—including outgoing RAAF messages for 1950—supports the Chief

Archivist’s viewpoint."

Yes those two excerpts are from the GAO's second draft copy released to the press aren't they? The one that WG Seibert complained about. The GAO research missed the regulation. This is where Schiff should be tarred an feathered instead of being labeled a seeker of the truth, He knew that he was not taking the advice of the researchers whom he claims to have hired to seek any truth, completely dismissing paragraph 53b in manual 181-5 to achieve his desired outcome. He could only release an incorrect draft copy knowing it contained errors if he purposefully intended to mislead the public, and I completely believe that is what he managed to accomplish. That is a bad as Scientology in my book.

GAO found that:

(1) in 1947, Army regulations required that air accident reports be maintained permanently and although none of the military services filed a report on the Roswell incident, there was no requirement in 1947 to prepare a report on the weather balloon crash;

(2) although some of the records concerning Roswell activities had been destroyed, there was no information available regarding when or under what authority the records were destroyed;

(3) only two government records originating in 1947 have been recovered regarding the Roswell incident;

(4) a 1947 Federal Bureau of Investigations record revealed that the military had reported that an object resembling a high-altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector had been recovered near Roswell; and

(5) a 1947 Air Force report noted the recovery of a flying disc that was later determined by military officials to be a radar-tracking balloon

Edited by psyche101
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As we know, Phil Klass had his own version of the destruction of the Air Force records, although I always had good reason not to take anything he said as coin of the realm. I have caught his "misstating" the facts of more than one UFO case in his eagerness to find some type of "explanation", without even trying very hard.

Even according to Klass, though, the records center in St. Louis admitted to destroying documents sometime in the 1950s, although naturally they vehemently denied any wrongdoing forty years after the fact.

We have no way of knowing whether any of those records were related to UFOs.

http://dagmar.lunarp...nb/0996/ros.htm

That link is pretty damning on Schiff.

However, Schiff's office apparently had already written a press release (based on the GAO's second draft) and failed to notice that this erroneous GAO statement had been deleted in the final report. So the Schiff press release featured the "missing documents." It quoted Schiff as saying: "It is my understanding that these outgoing messages were permanent records, which should never have been destroyed." Schiff added: "At least this effort caused the Air Force to acknowledge that the crashed vehicle was no weather balloon," revealing that he had not studied the USAF's 23-page report.

This is pretty much what I was saying, and it states that the second draft copy was released to the press, not the final copy. It's plain dishonest on the congressman's part.

And he didn't even read the USAF report! I didn't realise that to be honest, but in context it makes sense. Crikey, the congressman was not too big on research was he.

Edited by psyche101
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