Small Town History Posted February 24, 2014 #51 Share Posted February 24, 2014 The question is, why did Lindberg carry a pistol to court every day of the trial. The most suspicious part of this whole charade is the black guy finding the body in the middle of the pitch black of night, while taking a sh** in the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 11, 2014 #52 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Obvious to you guys I have been reading through this thread. I'm doing that because I have just started reading John Douglas' book, "The Crimes That Haunt Us" and this is a crime that has always caught my attention and I hate it when people start commenting without reading through the thread. I will have to explain one of the reasons why this case has always caught my attention and that is my grandmother attended one of Lindbergh's ticker tape rides. She was a young woman then and the reason for her attendance was my uncle's worship of "Lindy." He was about eight at the time and because of his worship, she took him to downtown Denver so, while clutching his copy of "We," he could watch his hero ride by ~~ maybe even an autograph, who knew. What I do remember on from there is that you only had to mention Lindberg's name to send my grandmother into a rage. She was aghast at Lindberg's parade behavior. She would always say he was at best sullen toward the crowd and even more than that he was arrogant to the point she was sorry that she had taken her son to observe such behavior. She was a pretty average, upper middle class mom. Who I believe would have had average expectations of the event. I think the fact Lindberg's behavior shocked her so thoroughly is telling to this case. Now, I don't hold to the belief that Lindberg did this himself but I do think it is a point of interest that to the day my grandmother died, because of the way he acted, she felt it was a possibility. She said he would not even turn to children or lower himself to acknowledge them. I'm just acknowledging on her behalf, she never thought he was above doing something to the baby. Douglas starts out this section of the book by saying Lindberg was shy, especially press shy. My grandmother would have corrected him, saying that's not shy, that is one arrogant SOB ! However, the things that Douglas goes on to say re. his personality traits of being controlling and "in charge" fit very well with her observations. Now, I did read through the thread first and I think everyone has said some things I agree with totally..... For what that's worth ~~~ LOL Since I've just finished the first half of the book section which is focused on determining the facts of what actually happened, I have to say that IMHO, there is evidence someone in that household was involved. This isn't diminishing Hauptman's possible involvement at all but IMO it's pretty clear the Lindberghs were there at that house on a fluke. The fact that the kidnapper would know that and go to that particular window seems to me to make that fluke even more pertinent. The nursery was in a back bedroom.... They certainly didn't go from window to window with their ladder looking for the baby and be lucky enough to hit that one on the first try ! IMO much of Douglas' "fact" portion seems to point to at least one in-house. I was also surprised no one in the thread mention Lindberg's pro-Nazi leanings. Before the baby was taken I believe he was in university programs relating to biological studies. That certainly fits if he was looking for the Hitler's belief in the perfect Arian.... I actually can't remember if he ever moved away from that or if the press just finally moved away from him. (???) BTW, with the description of how they put the baby to bed with the Vicks and the improvised "under" shirt, which was common, it's a wonder any kids made it at all. I wonder if anyone in the thread is old enough to know why they did that. Oh, yes, I remember it well ~~~~ When you had a cold they rubbed your back and your chest with Vicks but that isn't all of the "treatment." They then heated cloths or in this case a throw-away shirt. My mom used the oven door to heat the cloths. Then they SLAPPED those on you on top of the VICKS so they could get the "good vapor" going. The nursemaid had "made up" the undershirt so that procedure wouldn't ruin one of his good ones. And those of us who lived through the oil vapor treatment were pronounced "cured." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrn30000 Posted July 11, 2014 #53 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Obvious to you guys I have been reading through this thread. I'm doing that because I have just started reading John Douglas' book, "The Crimes That Haunt Us" and this is a crime that has always caught my attention and I hate it when people start commenting without reading through the thread. I have this book so i will review that section. Lindbergh was pro nazi, I think pro eugenics..the belief some races are better than others....he backed off a little after pearl harbor and the military did give him a commission during wwII...but i am sure he never changed his mind. I think the fact the kidnappers knew which window proves they had an inside source, even if that source was unknowingly a source. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 11, 2014 #54 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I have this book so i will review that section. Lindbergh was pro nazi, I think pro eugenics..the belief some races are better than others....he backed off a little after pearl harbor and the military did give him a commission during wwII...but i am sure he never changed his mind. I think the fact the kidnappers knew which window proves they had an inside source, even if that source was unknowingly a source. Thanks for remembering that. Both he and Joe Kennedy thought Hitler was a good thing and I think that was part of the reason "lucky Lindy" wasn't followed quite as closely after the divisions were felt. I did not really mean (like my grandmother did) that there is evidence he killed the baby but there is evidence that he interfered with the investigation and that he was pretty much a bull-headed, "know it all," which exactly verifies what my grandmother saw in him. She didn't go down to that parade for any reason other than to make my 8 yr. old uncle happy and she came back horrified for the rest of her life at this jerks demeanor !!! Now that doesn't make him guilty of anything to me but that, along with him being pro-Nazi, puts a cloud on the press reporting. At that point, I have to get up with him saying that he recognized Hauptman's voice so far away and that long ago ..... That is strictly BS !!! that the kangaroo court allowed in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen_jacobs Posted July 12, 2014 #55 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I feel Hauptmann was an opportunist. The kidnapper(s) had already killed the child. Once Hauptmann heard of the disappearance, he thought that it would be an opportunity to make some cash. A con of sorts. Whether he knew the parties involved ( most likely) or just saw the newspaper article and figured on cashing in, he died for it. We shall never know but his trial was very unbalanced. He should not have been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There was must certainly doubt. I don't agree with many verdicts handed down over the years, however, I see where the doubt comes in. It is a jurors job to see things objectively. The Hauptmann trial was a circus, a media firestorm, and simply the most exploitive one that had been done in a long while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted July 12, 2014 Author #56 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Thanks for starting up interest in this thread again, Vincennes. You're absolutely right about Lindbergh. He was pro Nazi, he was pro eugenics, he was a total control freak and a pretty cold blooded guy. Maybe that's why he succeeded in flying solo across the Atlantic when so many others died. He also fathered 3 illegitimate children with I think 2 different German women. Lindbergh really did believe that the Nordic/Scandinavian/ Teutonic bloodline was the best in the world and had to be protected. I also agree that there was someone on the inside, either on Lindbergh's staff or his mother-in-laws because it was not the usual thing for them to be in Hopewell during the week. My best bet is the maid who killed herself shortly afterwards. I don't think the info was given by her for any malicious reason but I'd guess that she had been targeted by H and his accomplice. When she realised what had happened because of the info she'd given, she killed herself. I also stick with my belief that 2 people were involved. Hauptmann was one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 12, 2014 #57 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Thanks for starting up interest in this thread again, Vincennes. You are very welcome ! Thanks for responding ! You're absolutely right about Lindbergh. He was pro Nazi, he was pro eugenics, he was a total control freak and a pretty cold blooded guy. Maybe that's why he succeeded in flying solo across the Atlantic when so many others died. He also fathered 3 illegitimate children with I think 2 different German women. Lindbergh really did believe that the Nordic/Scandinavian/ Teutonic bloodline was the best in the world and had to be protected. I also stick with my belief that 2 people were involved. Hauptmann was one of them. I had never heard about the illegitimate kids. That's so interesting ! I think that initially it is possible people might have been just hoodwinked by Hitler's progress with beginning to bring the German economy out of German's own depression. I have always tried to allow that for a cause of an initial mistake. Douglas doesn't mention anything about it in his book at all but when he did mention L had involved himself in "biological" studies programs at one of the area's universities, I have to regard that as a very telling activity. I also agree that there was someone on the inside, either on Lindbergh's staff or his mother-in-laws because it was not the usual thing for them to be in Hopewell during the week. My best bet is the maid who killed herself shortly afterwards. I don't think the info was given by her for any malicious reason but I'd guess that she had been targeted by H and his accomplice. When she realized what had happened because of the info she'd given, she killed herself. Don't know if you've read this book or not and I apologize it's really my only source other than things I remember from my interest in this in the past. However, this is exactly a possibility Douglas mentions and it does seem like those two maids are a solid possibility for passing inside information along. I have an issue though that it was not malicious. That's due to the fact the information that they would be in their new home that night was passed along so quickly. Not everyone had phones back then so if there was an inside source, there would have to be an immediate manner of communication. I'm wondering if the Hauptman's had a telephone. That becomes part of the issue for me in understanding Hauptman. It's always been my feeling that Hauptman was pretty much a lower, working class type, not very well educated. All of a sudden here I'm seeing his initial statements to police was that he made his living in the "stock market" and being a carpenter. He's playing the stock market here, making money at it and he can't spell hause ? That also should have been something they could verify. There is something else that really bothered me though. It refers several times to the first kidnapping notes and the demands not only for the money but that the money be placed in a wooden box ? Then this Dr. Condon comes into the picture and he has the "prototype" for the box which is an old ballot box he happened to have. He then commissions a carpenter to build the box. Then, at an early point in the negotiations, they think they can get the money to the kidnapper but seem to become all upset because the carpenter hasn't finished the box yet. (???) What the heck would that be about ? Why would the kidnapper specifically demand the money placed in a wooden box rather than a bag, a briefcase etc. I don't remember the dimensions for the box but it would seem to me that would just make the money heavier and more awkward to deal with getting away. The only thing I can think of is that it was so they could bury the money. It would seem to me, if that was what it was for, the primary need in that period would be oil cloth, not a wooden box I'm fixin' to run away down the street with. Edited July 12, 2014 by Vincennes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrn30000 Posted July 12, 2014 #58 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) It's always been my feeling that Hauptman was pretty much a lower, working class type, not very well educated. All of a sudden here I'm seeing his initial statements to police was that he made his living in the "stock market" and being a carpenter. He's playing the stock market here, making money at it and he can't spell hause ? That also should have been something they could verify. One of the causes of the 1929 stock market crashes and in fact many of our crashes has been the increase in the small retail investor. I would not be surprised at all that a working class person was putting money in the markets prior to 1929. With rumors of get rich quick,many ordinary people did and many of them borrowing or buying on the margin - put only a percentage of the money down. I am a little surprised that in 1932 he would have much to put in there. But the market had been hyped in the roaring 20's and nothing would surprise me about who was investing... Boring article basically what i just said..lol http://ic.galegroup....f7c0575588b0c0d "Another general factor that contributed to the Depression was the "get rich quick" mentality that developed during the 1920s. Many Americans believed their fortune was just around the corner. ..." Edited July 12, 2014 by mbrn30000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 12, 2014 #59 Share Posted July 12, 2014 One of the causes of the 1929 stock market crashes and in fact many of our crashes has been the increase in the small retail investor. I would not be surprised at all that a working class person was putting money in the markets prior to 1929. With rumors of get rich quick,many ordinary people did and many of them borrowing or buying on the margin - put only a percentage of the money down. I am a little surprised that in 1932 he would have much to put in there. But the market had been hyped in the roaring 20's and nothing would surprise me about who was investing... Boring article basically what i just said..lol http://ic.galegroup....f7c0575588b0c0d "Another general factor that contributed to the Depression was the "get rich quick" mentality that developed during the 1920s. Many Americans believed their fortune was just around the corner. ..." Yep, I read once that one of the multi-millionaires was on his way to the stock market just prior to the crash. Stopped and had his shoes shined and the shoe shine boy offered him a stock tip. He went directly in and pulled all of his money out of the market, saying when there were market tips out to everyone on the street, things weren't safe. Hauptman playing the market in 1932 though, after the crash, strikes me odd. Its just a feeling on my part, but things I have read about how the ladder was constructed using different pieces of wood and other things like the folding of the certificates in folds of 8, makes me think that if Hauptmann did this, he was an excessively frugal man, right on into "tight." Perhaps it was caused by necessity but there has to be a reason why someone would construct a ladder out of used pieces of wood. (????) Especially a carpenter ! What he didn't have access to lumber ? Makes no sense to me but I did notice that Hauptman had also built a garage on the rental property he was living in. The police also described that as ram shackled. Odd for a carpenter to build that way and it seems like if you consider this, it makes it a consistent trait. Here again maybe a bad carpenter or maybe just tight and he wasn't going to waste a penny he didn't have to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted July 12, 2014 #60 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I don't know what I have to add to the case discussion except that I never knew what Lindberg did but to pilot a little plane across the ocean. So he made it from A to B? I say "Oh, that's nice...what else is news?" My point is, the public was ga-ga then over those who are public figures just like they're ga-ga over them now and so it seems to me that private info about the family's coming's/going's/activities/daily life was likely widely known. When they had that house built, it might have even been reported which bedroom was the baby's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 12, 2014 #61 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I don't know what I have to add to the case discussion except that I never knew what Lindberg did but to pilot a little plane across the ocean. So he made it from A to B? I say "Oh, that's nice...what else is news?" My point is, the public was ga-ga then over those who are public figures just like they're ga-ga over them now and so it seems to me that private info about the family's coming's/going's/activities/daily life was likely widely known. When they had that house built, it might have even been reported which bedroom was the baby's. They really were the "rock stars" of that era weren't they ! I've wondered since coming into this thread why they called him "Lucky Lindy." Maybe just because he managed to his point "B" so they were all ..... Wasn't there really an earlier flier, "Corrigan." Who was aiming for point B in Europe and ended up flying New York to Los Angeles; hence, "Wrong Way Corrigan?" Maybe the multitudes were just thrilled that a flier managed to go the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrn30000 Posted July 12, 2014 #62 Share Posted July 12, 2014 They really were the "rock stars" of that era weren't they ! I've wondered since coming into this thread why they called him "Lucky Lindy." Maybe just because he managed to his point "B" so they were all ..... Wasn't there really an earlier flier, "Corrigan." Who was aiming for point B in Europe and ended up flying New York to Los Angeles; hence, "Wrong Way Corrigan?" Maybe the multitudes were just thrilled that a flier managed to go the right direction. I think he was heading for LA and landed in Ireland...or something like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 12, 2014 #63 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Does anyone have any possibilities re. my question re. the wooden box for the money ???? One probably silly thing that occurred to me is that all examples of Hauptmann's work are shoddy. Perhaps, he couldn't build a box ? Or might he have been so tight, they needed to stand that expense and not him ???? Still leaves the question why the box ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted July 12, 2014 #64 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Still leaves the question why the box ??? I guess it wasn't unusual back then- to use a box for such things- but heck if I really know. Hey, I'm reminded of Miss Daisy packing lunches in shoe boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 13, 2014 #65 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I guess it wasn't unusual back then- to use a box for such things- but heck if I really know. Hey, I'm reminded of Miss Daisy packing lunches in shoe boxes. IMO that's a really bizarre element of the story that I had never heard before ! Even more bizarre that they took that as such an important part of the ransom demand they were all aflutter when the first payment time came and the box wasn't ready.... ???? I've just finished what Douglas had to say as to his thoughts on the matter. He had some really good points to establish it just had to have been more than one person involved. He did say that there were opportunities for people to gain knowledge which room the baby was in. They gave some "tours" to the public when the L's weren't in residence which up to the time extension the night of the kidnapping because of the baby's cold was only on the weekends. So, if you go with that as a fact, then there is still only a couple of hours to pass the information to the kidnapper and Douglas does mention Hauptmann didn't have a phone ! If he was acting alone, how would he get the information re. their change of plans so quickly ??? There just had to be an inside connection ! Reading about L in Wikopedia, they say that L had more than three illegitimate children. Three by a Bavarian woman, two by her SISTER, and another by one of his secretaries. What a charmer he was ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted July 13, 2014 Author #66 Share Posted July 13, 2014 vincennes, I've vaguely heard of the wooden box but I don't think it was that big a deal. Condon was a publicity seeking nut case but somehow or other he conned Lindberg. Shows you the clout L had when he could allow this clown to get involved and back the cops off. H had snuck into the US illegally. He'd been in prison in Germany for committing burglaries. He was a 2nd storey man. He lied about where he got the money from. He just lied and lied and lied. I cannot work out who he was protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted July 13, 2014 #67 Share Posted July 13, 2014 IMO that's a really bizarre element of the story that I had never heard before ! Even more bizarre that they took that as such an important part of the ransom demand they were all aflutter when the first payment time came and the box wasn't ready.... ???? Wow. I'm not at that part yet, but what's most interesting to me about the box is that the kidnapper sent instructions for how to construct the thing! (How considerate. ) Yeah, I hadn't remembered anything about a box and so I had to read ahead in Douglas' book to see what you were referring to. (My reading's been slow going. ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 13, 2014 #68 Share Posted July 13, 2014 vincennes, I've vaguely heard of the wooden box but I don't think it was that big a deal. Condon was a publicity seeking nut case but somehow or other he conned Lindberg. Shows you the clout L had when he could allow this clown to get involved and back the cops off. H had snuck into the US illegally. He'd been in prison in Germany for committing burglaries. He was a 2nd storey man. He lied about where he got the money from. He just lied and lied and lied. I cannot work out who he was protecting. I'm going to have to go back and read over that part about the box myself. Douglas said that he and his co-author went to New Jersey and were able to review all the evidence that has been left. I'm saying this because some of what he says about the box is really conversation. That could be built around actual case notes in the police reports but, even with the best intentions of the writer, you can't tell if it's 100% accurate. To me what becomes verifiable is what Regi pointed out that the kidnapper sent a drawing, and exact dimensions he wanted the size of the box. Makes me wonder 1) why those dimensions were so important and another thing; 2) how would a German immigrant know the exact size of the container that amount of cash would require? The notes break down the exact number and denominations they wanted the cash in. So it's not like they gave the option of it being 70 one thousand dollar bills. They wanted a certain number of 5s, 10s, 20s, etc. Dealing with cash all my life, I'm sitting here clueless how big of a box I would need to schlep it while running ~~~ LOL There is one other thing that really interested me and that is the position of the ladder. The were able to take pictures and casts of the impression it had made in the ground. It was not placed in the center of the window because that would have made it viewable from a downstairs window. So it had been placed to the side and would have put the kidnapper at a pretty uncomfortable angle to enable him to get into the baby's room. However, and this is a real reach I know but Douglas says, and I agree, if someone inside the house lifted the baby out to the kidnapper who just stayed on the ladder, it would not have been a problem. I think that is just an interesting possibility. As you pointed out though, H had been a second story man and he actually did look pretty athletic. It was interesting to now go back and watch H's testimony. I think I had seen bits and pieces of it before but they were always snipped and I think they were always in docs and things dedicated to put a question on his quilt. Watching it now and understanding the questions they were asking him, he sure as heck sounded guilty to me. Before this I have always had a sick feeling about it that the man could have been completely railroaded but I don't feel that way any more. Now my only sick feeling is that there was an inside person and probably another ground assistant that got away with what they did ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 13, 2014 #69 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I have gone back and reread the transcripts of the notes from the kidnappers. I since I think we all have the same impression of Condon and he immediately seemed to have a handy prototype for the box and he was the one that they sent to commission it being made, I wanted to see if there could have been some where that he inserted something but rereading, I don't think so. The demand did come in one of the signed notes. One silly thing that hit me re. it's size specification is that it seems to me to be about the same size as a safety deposit box that banks use. Probably way off but in rereading the notes, I noticed something else. There are at least three specific times the kidnapper talks about what is going on in the house. Upon his first contact with JFC when he asks JFC to be an intermediary, the kidnapper says, Mr. L, "the police are going through all your mail." Douglas notes just a few pages before that L's mail was a mess. They were flooded with things from all over the county but it's a reach for me to think that the kidnapper would be immediately right on target with that knowledge.... On into the notes the kidnapper states two different times that L should stop his effort at going in different directions. Well, again that was exactly right L was trying to set up a Mafia contact. Again, how would the kidnapper have been so up to date with information that was going on in the home. I can't believe there was any kind of press coverage re. L. efforts toward the mob. Each time it is so in sync with what Douglas is describing going on. To me, it's too in sync ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted July 14, 2014 Author #70 Share Posted July 14, 2014 vincennes. one thing, Condon wasn't chosen by the kidnapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 14, 2014 #71 Share Posted July 14, 2014 vincennes. one thing, Condon wasn't chosen by the kidnapper. Well I was looking at it that in a way he was because he placed the ad offering his services and the kidnapper answered his ad. What I was really wondering was if he spiffed up the kidnappers demands to involve himself more but rereading the notes I don't think he did in any definite way that would have impacted what the kidnapper said in the notes at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted July 14, 2014 #72 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Well, Vin, I do think that's an interesting aspect of the case that the kidnapper approved Condon as the go-between before anyone else involved in the case had any knowledge of Condon. One silly thing that hit me re. it's size specification is that it seems to me to be about the same size as a safety deposit box that banks use. Apparently, it was assumed that a suitable sized box wouldn't be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincennes Posted July 16, 2014 #73 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Well, Vin, I do think that's an interesting aspect of the case that the kidnapper approved Condon as the go-between before anyone else involved in the case had any knowledge of Condon. Apparently, it was assumed that a suitable sized box wouldn't be available. What also occurs to me that it might fit the frugality of the kidnapper. This might be the same guy who told them they owed him $3.00 more after returning the sleeper because he had to buy the baby another one. Could he have though along the lines of it was their job to get the money to him correctly, so they needed to furnish the right kind of case for it ? I'm still working on who I think the inside person was. Violet is certainly a possibility, her change of stories makes no sense at all. Even weirder that when she did furnish where she actually was and who she was with there seems to have been backup for it. Douglas says that there has to have been a reason that she did that and gives an example of another such case where the suspect was hiding a larger guilt. I think something like that might be the case. It puts me to Violet's sister and right now I can't think of her name, an E name. She lite out of town immediately after the kidnapping in a really strange manner. Doesn't seem as if they really got to interview her and I wonder why they didn't send English police to interview her but Douglas doesn't mention that. I'm going with I think Violet's greater guilt might have been hiding her sister's involvement. Another thing to me is, why didn't the baby cry out ? He's grabbed by his head and placed in a sack and jolted onto a ladder. The path downward goes close to the library which is where L said he was and L doesn't hear a cry ? I they pretty well established how the baby was dropped. Is there a chance he was "silenced" somehow right in his crib before being lifted out by his head ? They said no chloroform odor was left in the room. ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilles Posted July 17, 2014 Author #74 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If you think the child was killed then it's pretty easy to silence a baby. A quick snap of the neck and it's all over. 2 people involved. One to climb up the ladder and step over and into the room and one waiting on the ladder for the body. Actually, makes more sense than my original thoughts. Of course the child was already dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted July 17, 2014 #75 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If you think the child was killed then it's pretty easy to silence a baby. A quick snap of the neck and it's all over. 2 people involved. One to climb up the ladder and step over and into the room and one waiting on the ladder for the body. Actually, makes more sense than my original thoughts. Of course the child was already dead. I think the plan included killing the baby, but not until after the abduction. From The Cases That Haunt Us, the autopsy showed "no evidence of strangulation or gunshot" and "the cause of death appeared to be a massive skull fracture as evidenced by a decomposing blood clot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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