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‘Get Over It’: Climate Change Is Happening

309 posts in this topic

I am happy with the statement that we don't know all there is to know about climate change.

You should be proud of your daughter.

The geological loop is just one of many feedback loops, both positive and negative that affect climate. Some are well-known, others probably not even discovered yet.

I got the geological info from my daughter (a geologist) when we were discussing the effects of continental drift on climate. I have also seen it in print, but at the moment, I don't recall where. I suggest you use Google Scholar if you want to know more.

Doug

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I odn'ot believe in the climate crisis, if you mean that the crisis is anthropomorphic.

I still hold to the theories of evolution of the earth, the sun, and the cosmos.

Defining climate doesn't assist me in make my decisions about this.

And again, I still agree with the remedies, to reduce use of fossil fuels, only because I hate oil barons.

I am almost on the side of the abiotic theory on oil. Almost but not quite. Still on the fence.

But no resarch from Gore is yet coming for some strange and questionable reason. I read the reserach sites daily. I have not yet seen anything that proves his theory.

Perhaps you can provide some.

It is irrelevant. We will reach a climate crisis long before we have to think about an ice age. When will we reach "the crisis?" Depends: we are already seeing affects of climate change. Was the drought that hit the midwest this summer a crisis? It is if you're a farmer. I expect things to get really interesting in the 2040s, or perhaps 2050s when the next drought cycle coincides with rising temps.

Weather is not the same as climate. Weather is how many inches of rain fell yesterday. Climate is how many inches of rain we expect to fall next year.

Doug

Edited by regeneratia

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But no resarch from Gore is yet coming for some strange and questionable reason. I read the reserach sites daily. I have not yet seen anything that proves his theory.

Perhaps you can provide some.

Gore is a politician - not a scientist. You can wait till hell freezes over before he produces a research paper.

I think you need to look elsewhere and stop believing that Al Gore has the slightest thing to do with climate science.

Br Cornelius

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That maybe comforting to you - but to what actual phenomenon do you attribute this Great Cycle - would it be some form of God perhaps. If not can you be specific about the actual driver.

Br Cornelius

In this topic i was talking in general about the weather pattern. Eventually we are going to see same weather patterns of ages ago...."Ice Age" and "global warming".peat and repeat..Life itslef is just a simple pattern...but i guess that goes along the lines if you believe if time linear, or is it reacurring ...or is time simply a human "theory"...

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In this topic i was talking in general about the weather pattern. Eventually we are going to see same weather patterns of ages ago...."Ice Age" and "global warming".peat and repeat..Life itslef is just a simple pattern...but i guess that goes along the lines if you believe if time linear, or is it reacurring ...or is time simply a human "theory"...

I believe in cycles - but they all have attributable causes. I think science is about understanding those cycles.

I don't believe it is acceptable to call something s cycle without understanding its nature - its a bit of a cop out and doesn't enhance the understanding of a situation.

Br Cornelius

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No Climate is 30 years of weather data.

And on what do you base your expectation? On AT LEAST 30 years of data.

Weather is the specific measurement on a particular day. Climate is the long-term average (and a range of values around the average). Climate change is the amount by which the average changes. Anthropogenic climate change is the amount by which human-induced conditions affect the average.

Let's not start picking nits. I'm as good at it as you are.

Doug

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I odn'ot believe in the climate crisis, if you mean that the crisis is anthropomorphic.

The word "crisis" is somewhat arbitrary. What is a crisis for one person (or species) may not even be a problem for another. A drought that bankrupts an Oklahoma rancher may not even be noticed in Europe; or an unusually-high storm surge that washes away a whole nation in the Pacific, may be only a footnote in the morning newspaper. The complete loss of 200,000 acres of pinyon forest in Colorado and New Mexico was a boon to ranchers because more grass means more beef, yet it destroyed the livelihoods of the Southern Ute families that made their living gathering pinyon nuts. Disasters are slowly getting worse and the rate is accelerating.

Is modern climate change anthropogenic? Man's activities release CO2 to the atmosphere (My daughter counted 18 flares visible from her most-recent well; each flare is 40 feet high and heats the well pad enough that the crew works in shirtsleeves in the 30-below North Dakota winter - in the Baaken, there is not enough gas to be economical to collect and sell, so they burn it off to keep it from collecting and exploding.). The increasing atmospheric CO2 bears the isotopic signature of burning fossil carbon (like a chemical fingerprint). The climate is warming fastest in the dryest areas - the "carbon fingerprint." All you have to do is connect the dots - the the increasing number of "dots" is making it ever-harder to keep them apart.

Defining climate doesn't assist me in make my decisions about this.

That was a minor side-issue. Fell free to ignore it.

And again, I still agree with the remedies, to reduce use of fossil fuels, only because I hate oil barons.

The big oil companies are really energy companies. They see the writing on the wall - oil won't always be a fuel; regulation of fracking will reduce or eliminate gas drilling; wind is already more efficient than coal and oil and it likely will be cheaper than gas in the near future. They're realists. They know that limited supply, pollution, politics and profits dictate that they will be in the green energy business in the not-so-distant future. Some already are. Electric cars are already here and will be much more efficient only five years from now. The energy business is going to change, is already changing. They will be the ones selling you green energy.

The Koch brothers, T. Boone Pickens and others know this and are adapting. The anti-green propaganda put out by the environmentally illiterate will buy them some time to convert and improve profits in the short run, but eventually they will have to go green. By way of example, look at Chesapeake Energy - they over-invested in gas wells and are now desperately trying to sell some leases so as to remain solvent. Folks are yelling at them about fracking and they aren't even drilling.

I am almost on the side of the abiotic theory on oil. Almost but not quite. Still on the fence.

You should talk to a petroleum geologist. They seem to be unanimous in stating that petroleum is a product of once-living organisms in oxygen-deprived environments.

But no resarch from Gore is yet coming for some strange and questionable reason. I read the reserach sites daily. I have not yet seen anything that proves his theory.

Perhaps you can provide some.

Nor are you likely to see any research articles by Al Gore - ever. He is not a climate scientist. I think he has gone on to other issues, anyway.

Doug

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Where is the intital research that penned CO2 as the climate change culprit? No one can find it. To discuss, we need to start from the beginning. Let's start with the original research that clamins that CO2 is the meanie behind climate change.

The word "crisis" is somewhat arbitrary. What is a crisis for one person (or species) may not even be a problem for another. A drought that bankrupts an Oklahoma rancher may not even be noticed in Europe; or an unusually-high storm surge that washes away a whole nation in the Pacific, may be only a footnote in the morning newspaper. The complete loss of 200,000 acres of pinyon forest in Colorado and New Mexico was a boon to ranchers because more grass means more beef, yet it destroyed the livelihoods of the Southern Ute families that made their living gathering pinyon nuts. Disasters are slowly getting worse and the rate is accelerating.

Is modern climate change anthropogenic? Man's activities release CO2 to the atmosphere (My daughter counted 18 flares visible from her most-recent well; each flare is 40 feet high and heats the well pad enough that the crew works in shirtsleeves in the 30-below North Dakota winter - in the Baaken, there is not enough gas to be economical to collect and sell, so they burn it off to keep it from collecting and exploding.). The increasing atmospheric CO2 bears the isotopic signature of burning fossil carbon (like a chemical fingerprint). The climate is warming fastest in the dryest areas - the "carbon fingerprint." All you have to do is connect the dots - the the increasing number of "dots" is making it ever-harder to keep them apart.

That was a minor side-issue. Fell free to ignore it.

The big oil companies are really energy companies. They see the writing on the wall - oil won't always be a fuel; regulation of fracking will reduce or eliminate gas drilling; wind is already more efficient than coal and oil and it likely will be cheaper than gas in the near future. They're realists. They know that limited supply, pollution, politics and profits dictate that they will be in the green energy business in the not-so-distant future. Some already are. Electric cars are already here and will be much more efficient only five years from now. The energy business is going to change, is already changing. They will be the ones selling you green energy.

The Koch brothers, T. Boone Pickens and others know this and are adapting. The anti-green propaganda put out by the environmentally illiterate will buy them some time to convert and improve profits in the short run, but eventually they will have to go green. By way of example, look at Chesapeake Energy - they over-invested in gas wells and are now desperately trying to sell some leases so as to remain solvent. Folks are yelling at them about fracking and they aren't even drilling.

You should talk to a petroleum geologist. They seem to be unanimous in stating that petroleum is a product of once-living organisms in oxygen-deprived environments.

Nor are you likely to see any research articles by Al Gore - ever. He is not a climate scientist. I think he has gone on to other issues, anyway.

Doug

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Where is the intital research that penned CO2 as the climate change culprit? No one can find it. To discuss, we need to start from the beginning. Let's start with the original research that clamins that CO2 is the meanie behind climate change.

You obviously didn't try very hard. This is the paper which kicked it all off and its about 110yrs old at this stage;

www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf

Hardly a radical new theory then.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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You obviously didn't try very hard. This is the paper which kicked it all off and its about 110yrs old at this stage;

www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf

Hardly a radical new theory then.

Br Cornelius

I love involuntary slapstick comedy. :devil:

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Where is the intital research that penned CO2 as the climate change culprit? No one can find it. To discuss, we need to start from the beginning. Let's start with the original research that clamins that CO2 is the meanie behind climate change.

The artcile referenced by Br. Cornelius was the beginning. If you're looking for one single article or book that lays it all out in one neat package, I am not aware of one. Perhaps Br. Cornelius can furnish us with a bibliography. Here is one I found on my first try:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=9681313746797376816&as_sdt=5,37&sciodt=1,37&hl=en

It has 170 articles, not all of which are directly relevant. But a great many are.

Any of us would have to do literature searches to find a good sample of what's available. Most climatologists are not inclined to do this for the casual reader, who is perfectly able to do it themselves, and may not be inclined to spend as much time reading as it took to compile the list. Besides, by the time I finished putting one together, it would be obsolete.

I suggest you get a copy of Michael Mann's "The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines." Find the appropriate chapter and type each sentence, one at a time into Google Scholar. From each run, pick four or five papers that seem to bear on your questions and read them. Then do the same with the next sentence. By the time you finish, you'll know more about human causes of global warming than some climatologists.

Happy reading.

Doug

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It's still ridiculous.

The Sun has always been responsible for what it does, and it has always been responsible for the climate of this planet.

Period. CO2?

C'mon. Man made warming?

Please, the very idea that the tiny human presence on the surface of this planet could possibly overcome the massive energy of the Sun, the planet's capability of cleaning itself up (something humanity doesn't understand, nor can do anything about*), and change the planet's climate, is ridiculous.

The climate does what it does, cyclically, and it couldn't care less what humans do.

Makes for a nice conversation, I suppose, but it's still ridiculous.

* Oh, there's a rthunderstorm coming! 60 MPH wind gusts, hail, heavy rain, maybe a tornado!

What in the world could all of humanity do to stop it, let alone locals.??

Not a damned thing. Nothing.

You're saying that man caused global warming?

Please. The idea is ludicrous, and unsupportable.

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Climate Change issues are leading to the attempted enslavement of people all over the world.

http://www.democrats...unagenda21.com/

Fight UN Agenda 21. An agenda that encourages loss of sovereignty and mandates global governance.

"SOUNDS LIKE SCIENCE FICTION...OR SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY...BUT IT ISN'T.

UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is implemented worldwide to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all information, and all human beings in the world. INVENTORY AND CONTROL." i.e. Public control of land use.

The green movement is leading us into more government control. Very scary!!

I do not want to be enslaved!! I will die free.

http://www.democrats...om/videos.html

“What can we do about it.OK, I get it. What now? What can I do?

AWARENESS IS THE FIRST STEP IN THE RESISTANCE”

http://www.democrats...t-can-i-do.html"

This is the time to fight Agenda 21, because it is in the initial stages. Time to take a stand. This is about enslavement and trail-of-tears stuff, guys, without concerning matters of genetics and cultures.

Be that person in the resistance.

Edited by regeneratia

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I did indeed try hard a couple of years ago. I must not have know exactly how to get to the report. Thank you.

I have yet to read it. But I have read that the calculations in that research were faulty. Are you in a position to assess that for yourself? I sure would like to know what you find.

Now off to read the PDF.

Later: oh good heavens, will read it later today.

You obviously didn't try very hard. This is the paper which kicked it all off and its about 110yrs old at this stage;

www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf

Hardly a radical new theory then.

Br Cornelius

Edited by regeneratia

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I generally do not purchase mindsets. Would you like me to present some good reading for you? OK. will do.

The artcile referenced by Br. Cornelius was the beginning. If you're looking for one single article or book that lays it all out in one neat package, I am not aware of one. Perhaps Br. Cornelius can furnish us with a bibliography. Here is one I found on my first try:

http://scholar.googl...iodt=1,37&hl=en

It has 170 articles, not all of which are directly relevant. But a great many are.

Any of us would have to do literature searches to find a good sample of what's available. Most climatologists are not inclined to do this for the casual reader, who is perfectly able to do it themselves, and may not be inclined to spend as much time reading as it took to compile the list. Besides, by the time I finished putting one together, it would be obsolete.

I suggest you get a copy of Michael Mann's "The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines." Find the appropriate chapter and type each sentence, one at a time into Google Scholar. From each run, pick four or five papers that seem to bear on your questions and read them. Then do the same with the next sentence. By the time you finish, you'll know more about human causes of global warming than some climatologists.

Happy reading.

Doug

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http://www.eurekaler...c-css071912.php

Colorful science sheds light on solar heating

Just some links to let you see. I will not be able to find all the important ones, but I will indeed try. And also you can find some of them I have placed on this site as well,... by searching something like climate change or solar or sun. I watch the sun daily. Getting a CME coming in soon, sometime today if not now, not earth-stopping tho.

Dams impact carbon dynamics in U.S. rivers

http://www.eurekaler...u-ajh073112.php

http://www.naturalclimatechange.us/ I don't do extreme right-slanted thinking, so if this is right, it is not something I know about. FYI, I am a moderate. Conservative & socailly liberal.

CIA Says Global-Warming Intelligence Is ‘Classified’

By David Kravets Email Author

September 22, 2011 | 3:49 pm |

Categories: The Ridiculous, politics http://www.wired.com...g-intelligence/

More to come on this post.

http://www.physorg.c...e.html#firstCmt

Climate sensitivity to CO2 more limited than extreme projections: research

http://www.eurekaler...u-dtn080712.php

Yale University

Diseased trees new source of climate gas

Diseased trees in forests may be a significant new source of methane that causes climate change, according to researchers at the Yale School of Forestry & Environmental Studies in Geophysical Research Letters.

Solar System Passing Through Interstellar Cloud

December 23, 2009

http://www.redorbit....rstellar_cloud/

Just one article on brief search that can influence our climate temps.

http://www.redorbit....alaxy-recently/

“Astronomers believe that invisible satellites made of dark matter may be more at risk of colliding with the Milky Way than visible satellite galaxies.

“Future astronomical programs, such as the space-based Gaia Mission, will be able to map out the vertical perturbations in our galaxy in unprecedented detail,” Widrow said in the release. “That will offer a strong test of our findings.”

http://www.redorbit....evealed-081012/

More Than A Million Years of Climate History Revealed

August 10, 2012

(Last Paragraph)

“Any uncertainty about the Earth’s climate system fuels the sense that we don’t really know how the climate is behaving, either in response to natural effects or those which are man-made,” Professor Elderfield added. “If we can understand how earlier changes were initiated and what the impacts were, we stand a much better chance of being able to predict and prepare for changes in the future.”

redOrbit (http://s.tt/1kwJC)

Believe me, it is just easier to sit on the fence on this issue. But I have almost since a child believed in polar shifts and geomagnetic reversals.

Hmmm! Good thing I am taking no sides and holding my own opinion.

Investigation Into Climate Change Report Concludes, Scientists Claim Persecution

August 14, 2012

Brett Smith for redOrbit.com – Your Universe Online

A two-year federal investigation into a climate change report by a pair of government scientists has finally concluded, but the results are being withheld, according to their lawyer.

The conclusion of the investigation is the latest episode in an on-going saga that has included charges of “integrity issues” with the report and the pair of scientists alleging persecution within the Department of the Interior (DOI).

redOrbit (http://s.tt/1kPgB)

http://www.nature.com/news/species-multiply-as-earth-heats-up-1.11350

Species multiply as Earth heats up

Biodiversity increases with gentle warming.

Richard Lovett

03 September 2012

Edited by regeneratia

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Climate Change issues are leading to the attempted enslavement of people all over the world.

The green movement is leading us into more government control. Very scary!!

I do not want to be enslaved!! I will die free.

http://www.democrats...om/videos.html

I think you're grasping the essence of the whole climate change movement exactly!

:tsu:

Larger government, government controls...exactly. Oh yes, and fear...the greatest implement to power and control there is!

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Will start a new post for this:

http://noc.ac.uk/new...nd-ancient-past

Weird: Wichita Temps Jump 20 Degrees At Midnight

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/...l#ixzz1OoDGFlBD

Calculations of 100 years ago need to be reassessed.

Public release date: 13-Sep-2012

http://www.eurekaler...u-wht091112.php

Arizona State University

World’s hottest temperature cools a bit

Team of meteorologists overturn a reading from 90 years ago and make Death Valley the holder of the world’s hottest temperature

IMAGE: This is a drawing of the Six-Bellini thermometer. Image supplied by Paolo Brenni, President of the Scientific Instrument Commission, and courtesy of Library of the Observatorio Astronomico Di Palermo, Gisuseppe…

Click here for more information.

The sun indeed has some influence on the earth.

Electromagnetic Pulse Could Knock Out U.S. Power Grid

Sept. 13, 2012

By Kedar Pavgi

http://www.nti.org/g...-us-power-grid/

Nextgov.com

Press Release 11-059

Antarctic Icebergs Play a Previously Unknown Role in Global Carbon Cycle, Climate

Passage of icebergs through surface waters changes their physical and biological characteristics

http://nsf.gov/news/...g=NSF&from=news

Tour “Iceberg Alley” in this photo gallery.

Credit and Larger Version

March 25, 2011

View the photo gallery “A Trip Down Iceberg Alley.”

In a finding that has global implications for climate research, scientists have discovered that when icebergs cool and dilute the seas through which they pass for days, they also raise chlorophyll levels in the water that may in turn increase carbon dioxide absorption in the Southern Ocean.

Shall I stop?

----------------------------

Just so you know the concern for global enslavement is not a partisan issue.

I think you're grasping the essence of the whole climate change movement exactly!

:tsu:

Larger government, government controls...exactly. Oh yes, and fear...the greatest implement to power and control there is!

Edited by regeneratia

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Climate Change issues are leading to the attempted enslavement of people all over the world.

http://www.democrats...unagenda21.com/

Fight UN Agenda 21. An agenda that encourages loss of sovereignty and mandates global governance.

"SOUNDS LIKE SCIENCE FICTION...OR SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY...BUT IT ISN'T.

UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is implemented worldwide to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all information, and all human beings in the world. INVENTORY AND CONTROL." i.e. Public control of land use.

The green movement is leading us into more government control. Very scary!!

I do not want to be enslaved!! I will die free.

http://www.democrats...om/videos.html

“What can we do about it.OK, I get it. What now? What can I do?

AWARENESS IS THE FIRST STEP IN THE RESISTANCE”

http://www.democrats...t-can-i-do.html"

This is the time to fight Agenda 21, because it is in the initial stages. Time to take a stand. This is about enslavement and trail-of-tears stuff, guys, without concerning matters of genetics and cultures.

Be that person in the resistance.

You just lost all your credibility in that last rant - good work in proving that climate change deniers have a tendency to conspiracy theorists. That's really all that needs to be discussed at this time since you are obviously immune to actual evidence.

I wasted my time.

Br Cornelius

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I did indeed try hard a couple of years ago. I must not have know exactly how to get to the report. Thank you.

I have yet to read it. But I have read that the calculations in that research were faulty. Are you in a position to assess that for yourself? I sure would like to know what you find.

Now off to read the PDF.

Later: oh good heavens, will read it later today.

The estimate was the best one possible at the time. It has been revised since better evidence has been available. What is important is the science has been worked on for over a hundred years been refined at every stage.

If you failed to find this (which is climate change 101) you were obviously looking in all the wrong places. I suspect you have actually read nothing but climate deniers blogs since that is the impression you convey from the way you parrot all the old and easily discredited denialists lines.

Br Cornelius

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I always assumed I never had credibility, dear. How could I lose it if I never had it? It is not something that can be given to me externally anyway.

But you use the word "denier" which means that you are thinking someone else's thoughts and words while not picking many of your own. And I will continue to discuss as I desire. You are not powerful enough to silence me. But you sure do use the tired old ploy of condescention and ridicule, don't you? Which I believe totally obliterates what you have to say.

You don't have to ridicule people just because you see things differently. Sometimes it is a sign of respect to allow people to think what they want without all the ridicule. Will you soon be able to learn that lesson?

Doug doesn't do that, use ridicule. Doug rocks! He allows for differences.

Many times, it is a waste of time to be here anyway. I think that you waste your time on other things. So feeling bad about reading me should not be all that concerning.

You just lost all your credibility in that last rant - good work in proving that climate change deniers have a tendency to conspiracy theorists. That's really all that needs to be discussed at this time since you are obviously immune to actual evidence.

I wasted my time.

Br Cornelius

Edited by regeneratia

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Oh I get it, it is an attack session today. Well dear, have at. I can take it.

Your assumtiopns are wrong. I go directly to the science research release sites. But I will never convince you of that so... think what you want.

But your insulting does get me to wondering just who you are and why you are feeling a burning hot need to ridicule me.

The estimate was the best one possible at the time. It has been revised since better evidence has been available. What is important is the science has been worked on for over a hundred years been refined at every stage.

If you failed to find this (which is climate change 101) you were obviously looking in all the wrong places. I suspect you have actually read nothing but climate deniers blogs since that is the impression you convey from the way you parrot all the old and easily discredited denialists lines.

Br Cornelius

Edited by regeneratia

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My thoughts on that pdf, btw. If they are recalculating the old research on the oldest hottest spot on earth, maybe the research in the pdf needs to be reassessed as well.

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What I don't see with you anthropomorph climate changers is the tree-planting campaigns. Why do you suppose that is? I plant one to two, sometimes more, trees a year. And many I let grow as volunteers.

http://www.eurekaler...s-nss100511.php

http://www.eurekaler...u-fpt011008.php

http://www.eurekaler...su-cr091709.php

http://www.eurekaler...g-uru091003.php

http://www.eurekaler...c-nft121404.php

http://www.eurekaler...s-gpr071812.php

http://www.eurekaler...a-tgp010603.php

http://www.eurekaler...t-crs080409.php

There is more if you want it.

Again I state I agree with the remedies for climate change for far different reasons.

Edited by regeneratia

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Regeneratia, When you are capable of acknowledging that you have made a factual error, such as you did with your claims about the ice age and the planetary warming around the solar system, you will have shown that you are here to learn from your mistakes and then a real discussion can begin. If you can acknowledge that you are mistaken in the evidence you are basing your overall position on - it would then be credible to believe that you might be persuaded that your overall position is wrong.

Until that time you need no help in making yourself look ridiculous.

By the way I am a scientist and have researched climate science in an informed but informal way for over 5years now. I started out very much like yourself, a sceptic, but the more I read the more I realized that the science is more than sound.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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