How did Palmyra thrive in the desert ?

[Saru]

With a population of 200,000, the Roman city of Palmyra prospered despite its location in the desert.

Today it's a mirage-like expanse of monumental ruins. But under the Roman Empire, Palmyra was a trading metropolis, according to historical and archaeological evidence.

Read more...

[Peter Cox]

With a population of 200,000, the Roman city of Palmyra prospered despite its location in the desert.

Well if it was a trading site then thats how it survived. Traded in what it needed to survive as well as other things. That makes sense to me?

[King Fluffs]

I bet magic had something to do with it... and weekly beard competitions.

[Super-Fly]

Pretty cool, wouldnt like to live there

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

I think alot of times with people that live in desert environments they know the land better than most people think they do, and the environment although VERY harsh does provide enough to live off of.

[keithisco]

From the article:

This proves there were farms around Palmyra, and they were cultivating wheat and other grain," said the University of Warsaw's Gawlikowski, who wasn't involved in the new research

There is only evidence of Barley Pollen in the bricks that were tested, so here is someone who immediately says they grew wheat as well?

From the article:

"The ancient residents, he estimated, managed to capture and channel the 5 to 6 inches (12 to 15 centimeters) of annual rainfall. The system lasted until about the year 700, archaeological evidence suggests—roughly the post-Roman period during which Palmyra began falling into ruin."

Coupla things here: There is also mention of large reservoirs to collect the 5 / 6 inches of annual rainfal - my own swimming pool will lose that amount in c6 weeks if I do not top it up. Clearly surface reservoirs are not efficient enough to keep 200,000 people satisfied with their daily needs.

In the year 700, the Roman Empire had been extinct for 250 years - so NO, not roughly the post-Roman period.

This is one of the shoddyist pieces of archaeology I have ever read! Massive, unsupportable extrapolations from an incredibly restricted data - set, assumptions (with no founding in fact) from 3rd party non-involved people who seem to to think that evidence of Barley production inevitably leads to wheat production.

Look at the claims for rainwater collection: lets suppose that every person needs 2 litres of water per day for everything from drinking, washing to cooking (a really low estimate) then you would need to collect some 146 million litres of water and stop it from evaporating for the rest of the year. You would need 9.333.333 square metres of reservoir capacity (9.7 square kilometres) to collect it. I dont see any sign in the report of any reservoir - like structures that support this.

[Junior Chubb]

How did Palmyra thrive in the desert ?

Strange question considering recent threads on how 'ancients' used previously unknown irrigation techniques...

Hold on this is another one... These 'ancients' are obviously more intelligent than we thought, maybe they did build there own superstructures after all.

Great article though, thanks for posting.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Junior Chubb

[lightly]

From the article:

" The area was targeted for its mountainous terrain, which channels precious rainwater to

otherwise dry streambeds—making the region marginally less hostile to agriculture."

Through ground inspections and satellite images, the archaeologists eventually found outlines of more than 20 farming villages within a few days' walk of the city—adding to about 15 smaller settlements previously uncovered by other researchers to the west of Palmyra.

" Crucially , the researchers also found traces of extensive networks of man-made reservoirs and channels to capture and store the rainfall from sudden, seasonal storms, said Meyer, of the University of Bergen in Norway."

.... .... Maybe the population is overestimated.. but, if the reservoirs were underground (no evaporation) it sounds like there might be enough run off from the mountains to fill them?

The article also mentions 35 farming villages in the area.. so there was other water around..

If any of that water was higher than Palmyra .. who knows , maybe they'll find the remains of an aquaduct or channel ? I'm just guessing obviously, but the Romans were good at providing water.

** maybe camels carried drinking water from the villages a few days away?

Edited July 25, 2012 by lightly

[Ashotep]

Access to food, water and others to trade with. Maybe that was why they were there.

[jules99]

Found this interesting information in the comments below the article but havent been able to find anything further to corroborate it;

"Strabo's description creates a bit of a riddle because Theodosia is situated in a region that has -- and had also in Strabo's time -- a near desertic climate. Where, then, did Theodosians get all the water for their flourishing agriculture?

The answer could lie in the remains of limestone mounds unearthed by archaeologists several years ago. These mounds are estimated to have reached around 30,000 cubic metres in volume and were linked by sandstone pipes to the city's public fountains. As pipes are often used to carry water, it seems plausible to surmise that these mounds were the source of the city's water supply."

Also it was Strabo that mentions wheat and other crops grown in the area;

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=VUcyAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=strabo+wheat+palmyra&source=bl&ots=vOu8C_Y9Yc&sig=833PhgKZIyQ1YGLIMM3KaR1dAdQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4EAPUKzUNu70mAXGn4CQCg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=strabo%20wheat%20palmyra&f=false

[jmccr8]

Desert dwellers in the past have shown some very creative means of collecting water.The ink that I am providing shows how the Nabataean culture devised a means of water management.

Nabataea: Concrete

I realize that one of the other examples cited is disputed but I do not feel that the whole context of the article should be ignored because of the disagreement.

jmccr8

[Peter Cox]

Bushmen in Africa live and thrive in the desert to this day.... its about knowing the land, years of practise and out side trade in the case of the OP,

Not rocket science i dont think.

In 100 000 years they will say how did we thrive in the way we lived? hahahahaha

[DeathRain2012]

I like the way you think Junior Chubb.. maybe you really are E.T.

[Mush Mouth]

Obviously they made some kind of pact with a supernatural entity, possibly a devil or something of extraterrestrial origin,

[questionmark]

Yep, they made a pact with the devil and used these tubing to bring the offering:

Just because there was no water in situ it foes not mean that there is no oasis near by from which the water could be sourced.

And the Romans improved the whole thingy a little later by building this devils worshiping device called aqueduct:

Palmyra is and was located in an oasis gentlemen, and an oasis has the property that it is a place in the dessert with lots of water. The only mystery here is that some are missing the obvious.

[Junior Chubb]

I like the way you think Junior Chubb.. maybe you really are E.T.

I am...

I'm an Aqualish Pirate

[lightly]

With a name like PALMyra ,, i sort of suspected water. How did Palmyra thrive in the dessert. um... water?

[jules99]

With a name like PALMyra ,, i sort of suspected water. How did Palmyra thrive in the dessert. um... water?

Hi;

Agreed water, though with a concerted application of brain cells, imagination and ingenuity..

[+DieChecker]

I am...

I'm an Aqualish Pirate

Only the Star Wars nerds are going to understand that.

[lightly]

Hi;

Agreed water, though with a concerted application of brain cells, imagination and ingenuity..

Hi, yup, and location location location? .. to link trade.

[jules99]

Hi, yup, and location location location? .. to link trade.

I just wonder about the benefits of living in an desert area with predictable climate, good fertile soil and having good water management. Well; the local farmers here are never happy...its not enough rain, its too dry, its too much rain at the wrong time for the crops, its the wrong sort of rain too this too that etc etc. In the desert climate would be predictably dry and water management performed by the farmer as required....Thinking that with the water problem sorted farming might have been easy.

[questionmark]

I just wonder about the benefits of living in an desert area with predictable climate, good fertile soil and having good water management. Well; the local farmers here are never happy...its not enough rain, its too dry, its too much rain at the wrong time for the crops, its the wrong sort of rain too this too that etc etc. In the desert climate would be predictably dry and water management performed by the farmer as required....Thinking that with the water problem sorted farming might have been easy.

It had nothing to do with climate or soil, it was simply a crossroads of several important ancient trade routes with plenty of water, that made it a stopover for all traders on those routes who did what they do when not traveling: trade.

[lightly]

I just wonder about the benefits of living in an desert area with predictable climate, good fertile soil and having good water management. Well; the local farmers here are never happy...its not enough rain, its too dry, its too much rain at the wrong time for the crops, its the wrong sort of rain too this too that etc etc. In the desert climate would be predictably dry and water management performed by the farmer as required....Thinking that with the water problem sorted farming might have been easy.

Well, ya, i guess it would be predictably warm and sunny.. and most likely a frost free perpetual growing season? Sort of like California If they had lots of water and camel dung i'd think the results could be excellent? As the place was a bit out of the way, probably as much local food as possible was produced?

I've been searching a little and see there are a lot of Awesome ruins and remains there... 'Hittite'... Roman.. Arab ... and now Hotels and Pools for sight seers . Very centrally located in the Syrian desert, below the fertile crescent .

[click to enlarge]

Color map, if link works on an edit

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/classicalarch/images2/mapane.jpg

Edited July 27, 2012 by lightly

[jules99]

Well, ya, i guess it would be predictably warm and sunny.. and most likely a frost free perpetual growing season? Sort of like California If they had lots of water and camel dung i'd think the results could be excellent? As the place was a bit out of the way, probably as much local food as possible was produced?

I've been searching a little and see there are a lot of Awesome ruins and remains there... 'Hittite'... Roman.. Arab ... and now Hotels and Pools for sight seers . Very centrally located in the Syrian desert, below the fertile crescent .

Hi lightly;

I dug up this quote;

"was so fruitful, that it produced corn twice a year :- and the herdsmen were accustomed to drive their cattle from pasture, lest they should die of satiety. Strabo asserts, that it was covered with palms; and "as for its millet and wheat" say Herodotus, who travelled thither, the former grows to the height of a tree, and the latter produces more than two hundred fold. Of all regions, that I have seen, this is the most excellent"

I was interested in the way the area had been terraformed, through water management. There could be ideas there for us to use today.

[lightly]

Hi lightly;

I dug up this quote;

"was so fruitful, that it produced corn twice a year :- and the herdsmen were accustomed to drive their cattle from pasture, lest they should die of satiety. Strabo asserts, that it was covered with palms; and "as for its millet and wheat" say Herodotus, who travelled thither, the former grows to the height of a tree, and the latter produces more than two hundred fold. Of all regions, that I have seen, this is the most excellent"

I was interested in the way the area had been terraformed, through water management. There could be ideas there for us to use today.

Hi Jules, sure enough... very productive. It's an interesting and beautiful place isn't it? I had barely heard of it. Very Ancient apparently, with other names before Palmyra. It had Hot Springs nearby too ! Sounds like some of those have dried up...