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Mr.United_Nations

Who or what created God?

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I always wanted to know this but who or what created him? was it himself? created by other gods? a super-god?

Because in order of something to exist, he or she has to be created.

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Nope,he was there first ,and he created everything else .

How he got there,only he knows ,and he's not telling .

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Posted (edited)

God has no beginning and no end

Edited by Uncle Pockets

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where did consciousness come from out of gases and minerals and metals and the like

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where did consciousness come from out of gases and minerals and metals and the like

Isnt that a seperate topic??

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The standard answer to all these questions hasn't changed since I was a kid, if I recall it was "Go wash your hands and get ready for dinner".

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Isnt that a seperate topic??

I don't think so.

God = consciousness. Life = consciousness. Rocks, gases, and elements = no consciousness.

I think it is another way of asking the OP's question. If not, sorry to derail OP.

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Posted (edited)

You make the assumption that an all powerful all controlling being would perceive the universe in a "Cause" and "effect" manner.

Maybe he created himself. Maybe matter or energy manifested itself in a conscience all powerful being.

Maybe for the universe to exist it had to be perceived by conscious being. So out of sheer probability he happened.

Edited by Kazoo
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Please people take this seriously.

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God, according to the theory proposed by Wise Men of old, has always been. You might ask, but Time and the Universe hasn't always been, they started somewhere, but this can be got around by thinking of Time as spiral rather than linear, or perhaps like a Möbius strip. I think the way I tend to look at "GOD" is as the force that is behind all of the laws of nature and of physics, and holds them all together and makes sure that they all work together, rather than as an independet entity or intelligence.

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Posted (edited)

Please people take this seriously.

My serious response is that there is no answer to this question. God has always been and always will be. There is a reason why He is God afterall, and why He can't be completely explained.

The fact is that something has to have always existed. Science states that you can't create "something" out of "nothing" (or at least it use to). There is some scientific way I've come across recently trying to explain how the Universe could have come about from "nothing," but in reading it it still implies that there was, in fact, something that always existed. So, with that being the case, I'm still left to believe that there is something that must have always existed in order for everything else to have come about.

I would think about this quite often when I was younger, and in trying to wrap my mind around it I realized that it simply can't be done. One is left with no choice but to realize something has always existed.

I believe in God for many reasons currently, but in my youth when I was trying to determine if I really believed in Him it was the realization that He must have always existed (from which everything else then came into existence) which made me realize that He does, in fact, exist and that there is no point in questioning Him any longer.

Edited by Angel Left Wing

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That is a good question, i often wonder that same things. I am not overly relgious but thus is what i believe about gods orgins. Now god as being a spirt and a creator is the creator, nothing created god cause god has always been here.Before there was nothing the was god. He is creation, all the universes,the planets,the stars,what may ever be living on them.He is the god of all things, In Johns gospel he begins with "In the begging was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god, through him all thing were made, and there is nothing in exstiance that was not made by god". He is Alpha and Omega, The begging and the end. What created,god is creation and that is all we know.

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Posted (edited)

God doesn't need to be created, he is beyond existence. Everything in existence was created by God. God is beyond time and space and all creation. I'm sure I heard that somewhere.

In Islam, God is eternal, He has no beginning and no end, He was not created.

It could be that because we are limited to time, we believe God needs a beginning, but God might not be affected by time and needs no beginning?

Maybe that's not the answer you're looking for, but that's what I think.

Edited by Lrak

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This very question, and the answers I received, were one of the catalysts in my becoming an atheist. Now the one hand I was being told that nothing could exist for ever, or spontaneous spring into existence and so the universe must have been created by a god. Then I was told that god existed for ever. My young mind reasoned that if a god could exist without beginning and end then it was not impossible for the universe to have existed without beginning or end, and thus there was no need for a creator for the universe to exist.

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Posted (edited)

My young mind reasoned that if a god could exist without beginning and end then it was not impossible for the universe to have existed without beginning or end, and thus there was no need for a creator for the universe to exist.

Doesn't that go against the scientific principle that you can't create something from nothing, though?

Also, in being an atheist, doesn't your comment above contradict your beliefs? In other words, if you do not believe in God (or "gods" as the case may be), how can you reason that His existence (which you don't believe in) having no beginning or end allows for the same to be true about the universe?

It would seem that you are basing that belief on the acknowledgement of a being that you don't believe exists to begin with.

Edited by Angel Left Wing

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This very question, and the answers I received, were one of the catalysts in my becoming an atheist. Now the one hand I was being told that nothing could exist for ever, or spontaneous spring into existence and so the universe must have been created by a god. Then I was told that god existed for ever. My young mind reasoned that if a god could exist without beginning and end then it was not impossible for the universe to have existed without beginning or end, and thus there was no need for a creator for the universe to exist.

That's fine if you believe that, but I believe that the universe needs a Creator because it is a creation. Islam says that God is like nothing in His creation.

Just a personal opinion.

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Please people take this seriously.

There is no correct answer, people have defined a deity that's beyond the universe in order to explain it.

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Doesn't that go against the scientific principle that you can't create something from nothing, though?

That's not what he said though.
Also, in being an atheist, doesn't your comment above contradict your beliefs? In other words, if you do not believe in God (or "gods" as the case may be), how can you reason that His existence (which you don't believe in) having no beginning or end allows for the same to be true about the universe?

It would seem that you are basing that belief on the acknowledgement of a being that you don't believe exists to begin with.

He is applying the same reasoning believers use with god, to the universe.

Not sure how his acknowledgement of other beliefs (and their reasoning) contradicts his atheism.

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Posted (edited)

That's not what he said though.[/font]

He is applying the same reasoning believers use with god, to the universe.

Not sure how his acknowledgement of other beliefs (and their reasoning) contradicts his atheism.

That's not what he said though.

He is applying the same reasoning believers use with god, to the universe.

Not sure how his acknowledgement of other beliefs (and their reasoning) contradicts his atheism.

how is this not contradicting him self. can i not now say as the universe can exist forever, is it possible that god also existed forever?

Edited by Ever Learning

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The creator is nothing like the creation. You associate the way we are born and assume it must be similar.

This is a bit where Christianity slips. You cannot associate human traits with God. It is wrong to refer to him as father as that makes you think of a father as you have. That opens the doors for sons and so on.

Again, the Creator is nothing like the creation.

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how is this not contradicting him self. can i not now say as the universe can exist forever, is it possible that god also existed forever?

He is applying the same reasoning believers give god, to the universe. Where is the contradiction?

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That's not what he said though.

I'll wait for him to speak for himself as I have no intentions of putting words in his mouth.

He may not have said it directly, but in stating:

"My young mind reasoned that if a god could exist without beginning and end then it was not impossible for the universe to have existed without beginning or end"

He is, if nothing else, implying he believes it is possible for the universe to have never come into being and that it simply always was. As far I understand though, science insists that nothing has simply always been and that you can't have something come about from nothing.

I don't know if science still holds that stance, but I know that when I was in school it is what I was taught.

He is applying the same reasoning believers use with god, to the universe. Not sure how his acknowledgement of other beliefs (and their reasoning) contradicts his atheism.

How can one apply the reasoning used to explain something they don't believe exits (regardless of the fact others do) to then explain something they do believe in?

If they do so, they are basing their belief (or at least part of it) on one thing upon principles they find are a faulty explanation of another.

Ultimiately, however, what I am asking about has more to do with scientif laws and beliefs than it has to do with God.

If science tells us that nothing can exist forever or spontaneously spring into existence than it is science that contradicts the idea of the universe having done so.

If you (not "you" specifically, I mean it in the general sense) are going to bypass that by stating that "Oh well, that is how people explain God's existence so I can use that same reasoning to explain how the universe came to be." then you would have to acknowledge God's existence as a reality to believe the reasoning used to explain Him can righfully be applied to explaining how the universe came to be.

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Posted (edited)

He is applying the same reasoning believers give god, to the universe. Where is the contradiction?

The contradiction lies in the fact that if he truly believes the "reasoning believers give God" is credible reasoning that can also be applied to the universe he would have to also acknowledge that God truly exits.

In other words, if God truly does not exist and one truly believes that is so, then no amount of reasoning used to explain God's being can be applied to explain the existence of the universe (or anything else for that matter).

It stands to reason that only believers in God (or some other higher being) can apply their beliefs in Him to also explain why the universe has always been, with no beginning and no end.

The only logical way around that for an atheist (off the top of my head) would be to hold a belief that the universe itself is God (or a higher being if that is what one would prefer to acknowledge it as).

Edited by Angel Left Wing

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Posted (edited)

"My young mind reasoned that if a god could exist without beginning and end then it was not impossible for the universe to have existed without beginning or end"

He is, if nothing else, implying he believes it is possible for the universe to have never come into being and that it simply always was. As far I understand though, science insists that nothing has simply always been and that you can't have something come about from nothing.

So what is the problem since he didn't say the universe came from nothing?
If you (not "you" specifically, I mean it in the general sense) are going to bypass that by stating that "Oh well, that is how people explain God's existence so I can use that same reasoning to explain how the universe came to be." then you would have to acknowledge God's existence as a reality to believe the reasoning used to explain Him can righfully be applied to explaining how the universe came to be.

More like, "I can exclude the universe from certain rules, just as people do with their gods". However your reasoning God must exist doesn't make sense, as it doesn't depend on God's existence but the reasons (or special pleading) put forth.

Just because Zeus is credited to throwing lightning bolts doesn't mean the acceptance of lightning implies (or requires) Zeus' existence.

Edited by Rlyeh

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Posted (edited)

God is the Universe. :)

see link here

Edited by Lilly
addition

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