Guns don´t kill people

[jugoso]

In modern times, nearly every nation has had a psychopath or two commit a mass murder, regardless of how strict their gun laws are – the crazed white supremacist in Norway one year ago Sunday, the schoolyard butcher in Dunblane, Scotland, the École Polytechnique killer in Montreal, the mass murderer in Erfurt, Germany … the list seems endless.

But here's the difference between the rest of the world and us: We have TWO Auroras that take place every single day of every single year! At least 24 Americans every day (8-9,000 a year) are killed by people with guns – and that doesn't count the ones accidentally killed by guns or who commit suicide with a gun. Count them and you can triple that number to over 25,000.

That means the United States is responsible for over 80% of all the gun deaths in the 23 richest countries combined. Considering that the people of those countries, as human beings, are no better or worse than any of us, well, then, why us?

This is what I said then, and it is what I will say again today:

1. We Americans are incredibly good killers. We believe in killing as a way of accomplishing our goals. Three-quarters of our states execute criminals, even though the states with the lower murder rates are generally the states with no death penalty.

Our killing is not just historical (the slaughter of Indians and slaves and each other in a "civil" war). It is our current way of resolving whatever it is we're afraid of. It's invasion as foreign policy. Sure there's Iraq and Afghanistan – but we've been invaders since we "conquered the wild west" and now we're hooked so bad we don't even know where to invade (bin Laden wasn't hiding in Afghanistan, he was in Pakistan) or what to invade for (Saddam had zero weapons of mass destruction and nothing to do with 9/11). We send our lower classes off to do the killing, and the rest of us who don't have a loved one over there don't spend a single minute of any given day thinking about the carnage. And now we send in remote pilotless planes to kill, planes that are being controlled by faceless men in a lush, air conditioned studio in suburban Las Vegas. It is madness.

2. We are an easily frightened people and it is easy to manipulate us with fear. What are we so afraid of that we need to have 300 million guns in our homes? Who do we think is going to hurt us? Why are most of these guns in white suburban and rural homes? Maybe we should fix our race problem and our poverty problem (again, #1 in the industrialized world) and then maybe there would be fewer frustrated, frightened, angry people reaching for the gun in the drawer. Maybe we would take better care of each other (here's a good example of what I mean).

Those are my thoughts about Aurora and the violent country I am a citizen of. Like I said, I spelled it all out here if you'd like to watch it or share it for free with others. All we're lacking here, my friends, is the courage and the resolve. I'm in if you are.

Michael Moore

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/its-guns-we-all-know-its-not-really-guns

[Kazoo]

Honestly the gun thing just seems spiteful if you ask me. I think people just want to not loose a right. I think all humans are capable killers and easily controlled by fear.

In the U.S.A we have the right to own a gun. Its the second amendment of the united states. We don't like our privileges being taken away. As soon as guns are illegal people are going be paranoid and afraid "WHAT IF FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS NEXT?!?!?!".

[F3SS]

So many people have guns because so many people have guns. I like what Ice-T said, "I'll give up my guns when everybody else does".

Whats that old saying? God created man, Samuel Colt made them equal.

Want to be rid of gun crime? Use our military to eradicate street gangs as a great start. Police can't do it. Make unjustified murder penalized by death. If there are witnesses or other hard evidence, screw the trial, execute them. That's what they need to do with the batman shooter. Many witnesses, absolute guilt. Why a trial? Why waste time? Kill him. Well learn nothing by "studying" him except that he's crazy. You'll never be rid of crazy people. So maybe the thought of instant death would halter some madmans plans to kill. Some crimes deserve harsh penalties. For some criminals and gangbangers jail is better than where they come from, three meals a day tons of homies to chill with. You get my point. An eye for an eye would deter many crimes.

[Cradle of Fish]

@Is it real: So your response to violence is to meet it with excessive violence? *SNIP* Guns are weapons. They were invented to kill, there is no other purpose to them. Face it.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Lilly
removed ad hom remark

[FLOMBIE]

Eye for an eye has never stopped anyone from doing anything. That's really not a solution at all. Let's not be so vengeful. That's exactly what Michael Moore tried to explain in the OP.

Edited July 31, 2012 by FLOMBIE

[Babe Ruth]

Good points Jugoso! In this case, it will be interesting to see what meds Holmes was taking, IF that information ever becomes public.

Going back for the last 10 or 15 years with all the youngsters shooting up their schools and teachers and such, about half of them were on Prozac or some other serious psychoactive drug.

Is it the guns, or the drugs?

[FLOMBIE]

It's the drugs messing with their minds and the easy access to guns that making them dangerous.

[tapirmusic]

People don't just murder each other on their own.

Somebody else made that happen.

[jugoso]

So many people have guns because so many people have guns. I like what Ice-T said, "I'll give up my guns when everybody else does".

Whats that old saying? God created man, Samuel Colt made them equal.

Want to be rid of gun crime? Use our military to eradicate street gangs as a great start. Police can't do it. Make unjustified murder penalized by death. If there are witnesses or other hard evidence, screw the trial, execute them. That's what they need to do with the batman shooter. Many witnesses, absolute guilt. Why a trial? Why waste time? Kill him. Well learn nothing by "studying" him except that he's crazy. You'll never be rid of crazy people. So maybe the thought of instant death would halter some madmans plans to kill. Some crimes deserve harsh penalties. For some criminals and gangbangers jail is better than where they come from, three meals a day tons of homies to chill with. You get my point. An eye for an eye would deter many crimes.

An eye for an eye makes us both blind. And I´m pretty sure that statement can´t be backed up statistically.

[+and-then]

An eye for an eye makes us both blind. And I´m pretty sure that statement can´t be backed up statistically.

It also removes murdering scum from among our midst. I don't CARE why Holmes did what he did. He should be put down like the animal he has become. When human beings stop acting human; when they prey on others as though they were animals, then they have lost the right to be part of society. Those who will judge me as being evil for this statement are probably hypocrites in that you would NEVER personally put up with having such a person near yourself or your families. Some people are broken and cannot be "fixed". I have no problem with the taxes I pay putting them in a cell forever so that they don't kill again but I have a HUGE problem with their behavior taking away MY rights.

[Bama13]

@Is it real: So your response to violence is to meet it with excessive violence? *Snip*.

Guns are weapons. They were invented to kill, there is no other purpose to them. Face it.

I know a lot of people that enjoy target shooting. It is an Olympic sport. Guess there is another purpose. *Snip*.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Karlis
Ad hominem

[Bama13]

An eye for an eye makes us both blind. And I´m pretty sure that statement can´t be backed up statistically.

An eye for an eye makes us both one-eyed, not blind.

FYI: In case you didn't know it means the punishment should fit the crime.

[F3SS]

@Is it real: So your response to violence is to meet it with excessive violence? *SNIP* Guns are weapons. They were invented to kill, there is no other purpose to them. Face it.

No kidding. Talking doesnt work either. Thats our world. If someone came at me with a gun I would like to have one to make sure he dies first. Like I said, guns will go away only if everybody gives them up. I really should buy one. I'm feeling left out.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Lilly
edited quote

[rashore]

I wish Mr. Moore included the references of where he got his numbers from.

[karmakazi]

I know a lot of people that enjoy target shooting. It is an Olympic sport. Guess there is another purpose. *Snip*.

I about choked on my tea when I read that.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Karlis

[jugoso]

An eye for an eye makes us both one-eyed, not blind.

FYI: In case you didn't know it means the punishment should fit the crime.

I was actually referring to Ghandi´s quote which is "An eye for an eye will make us all blind"

FYI: I do know what it means. I was referring to the claim that harsher sentences result in less crime.

[+OverSword]

The bottom line is that this person is insane. Taking away my rights to own a gun does nothing to change that. To make this mental health illness issue into a gun control issue is a mistake. The thing that needs to be focused on is legislation that would have made it possible for the psychiatrist treating this head case to report him before he could do harm to himself or others.

Edited July 31, 2012 by OverSword

[Lilly]

Name calling will not be tolerated. Learn to disagree with others with using insults.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Lilly
I need to learn to spell

[aztek]

Eye for an eye has never stopped anyone from doing anything. OP.

yes it did, and it does everytime, maybe in your fantasy world you live in, robber, rapists, and assailants can be talked out of their intent, but in my real world, they wont stop until met with force.

[Imaginarynumber1]

I think it's a complicated issue with a complicated answer. Making guns easier to get won't help, as more disturbed people will no doubt end up with them. Making guns harder to get won't help, either. You're just going to have more illegal gun sales. Taking away guns is just stupid unless you want millions of rabid guns owners threatening to shoot everybody that tries. However, nobody needs and arsenal in their homes.

Shooting is fun, I agree. I like it. I don't own any guns, but a friend of mine owes several. So I'm not just anti-gun blah blah blah, but I don't think that more gun safety classes/programs would hurt at all.

I dunno. I don't think there is a good solution short of a massive change of opinion in the U.S. It seems to be a case of a bad few ruining it for the rest of us.

[FLOMBIE]

yes it did, and it does everytime, maybe in your fantasy world you live in, robber, rapists, and assailants can be talked out of their intent, but in my real world, they wont stop until met with force.

I was talking about killing as a punishment. Of course they have to be punished. An resocialised. It does work, not always, of course, but those who fail simply have to remain locked up for a longer time.

Edit: Does capital punishment in the US stop anyone from killing? Maybe in your fantasy world.

Edited July 31, 2012 by FLOMBIE

[aztek]

I was talking about killing as a punishment. Of course they have to be punished. An resocialised. It does work, not always, of course, but those who fail simply have to remain locked up for a longer time.

but i was, as a punishment and prevention.

i couldn't care less what an assailant, or rapist get, as a punishment, i don't want them to commit crime against me, only blunt force stops them.

vast majority commit crimes again.

the jail enviroment itself doen't support resocialisation, you have to be part of somethin (a gang) to survive, and once you get out, you are tied to it forever.

that fact is most commit crimes again, and again. jail doesn't turn them into good ppl. you really should learn a bit about jail culture, talk to ppl that have been there, if they will talk to you.

[FLOMBIE]

That's why the prisons are different over here.

Again, only in your fantasy world will capital punishment prevent someone from being killed.

Edit: I am doing my legal clerkship right now. I do talk to criminals quite often.

Edited July 31, 2012 by FLOMBIE

[aztek]

Edit: Does capital punishment in the US stop anyone from killing? Maybe in your fantasy world.

it doesn't. murder still commited, in death penalty states and no DP states.

so in my real world it doesn't.

nice try to turn my point arround, try harder next time.

[FLOMBIE]

Good we aggree on that one! That is all I meant to say with my post you reacted so harshly against. Now I don't see what point you tried to make. That you can defend against a rapist with a gun?

Edited July 31, 2012 by FLOMBIE