911

[skyeagle409]

I don't think it was a US govt conspiracy.......lol And yes I know there were warnings sent out. Like I said it is complicated;) So many layers of bs.....

Evidence allows a person to know when the 'hold 'em, and when to throw 'em.

[TrueBeliever]

Evidence allows a person to know when the 'hold 'em, and when to throw 'em.

"evidence" has also placed many an innocent man in prison..............

[skyeagle409]

"evidence" has also placed many an innocent man in prison..............

That is not real evidence because there have been cases where lies have have placed people in prison. In fact, real evidence has been used to free innocent people from prison.

[TrueBeliever]

That is not real evidence because there have been cases where lies have have placed people in prison. In fact, real evidence has been used to free innocent people from prison.

I don't think many could handle the evidence..the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the TRUTH.....and not just of 9/11..........but of much of what happens in our country, and around the world.

[booNyzarC]

I don't think many could handle the evidence..the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the TRUTH.....and not just of 9/11..........but of much of what happens in our country, and around the world.

And I don't think you have any of what you claim. No truth. No evidence. Not about 9/11 or anything else. Nothing but a flapping pair of gums like every conspiracy theorist before you, and each who will follow.

[MID]

I don't think many could handle the evidence..the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the TRUTH.....and not just of 9/11\

And what in your opinion, is that "whole truth"?

Edited October 17, 2012 by MID

[TrueBeliever]

And I don't think you have any of what you claim. No truth. No evidence. Not about 9/11 or anything else. Nothing but a flapping pair of gums like every conspiracy theorist before you, and each who will follow.

It doesn't matter what you think really.......and in the end it doesn't matter what i think/know. Some things are just too big, too deep, too complex and there are forces more powerful and brutal than you would be capable of believing anyways.

[TrueBeliever]

And I don't think you have any of what you claim. No truth. No evidence. Not about 9/11 or anything else. Nothing but a flapping pair of gums like every conspiracy theorist before you, and each who will follow.

It might surprise you how many reputable people, some even in the intelligence community who do NOT believe the 'official' story.............

[TrueBeliever]

And what in your opinion, is that "whole truth"?

We don't know yet, the whole truth, but many many intelligent, professional credible people do not believe the official story. And these are not conspiracy nuts. They are thinking people who are not easily led. Who think independently of media, or popular opinion. There are pilots, engineers, firefighters, doctors, intelligence community members, and on and on......

[booNyzarC]

It doesn't matter what you think really.......and in the end it doesn't matter what i think/know. Some things are just too big, too deep, too complex and there are forces more powerful and brutal than you would be capable of believing anyways.

In the end what matters is sound reasoning which is supported by evidence.

It might surprise you how many reputable people, some even in the intelligence community who do NOT believe the 'official' story.............

If you or anyone else can bring some actual evidence to the table for examination, there are plenty who are more than willing to take a look.

We don't know yet, the whole truth, but many many intelligent, professional credible people do not believe the official story. And these are not conspiracy nuts. They are thinking people who are not easily led. Who think independently of media, or popular opinion. There are pilots, engineers, firefighters, doctors, intelligence community members, and on and on......

Disbelief is not evidence. If you want to make any headway at all in this, you'll need to bring some of that to the table.

So far just about every question that the 9/11 truth movement has raised, has been explained in depth. The only questions that haven't been explained in depth remain unanswered solely because there isn't any data available to answer them. So yes, there are areas of ambiguity. There are things which we probably will never be able to answer at this point. The vast majority of major historical events have these areas of ambiguity, but that does not mean the correct answers to those unanswered questions point to anything conspiratorial.

To legitimately reach a conspiratorial conclusion you need evidence, not a lack of evidence.

[Babe Ruth]

Boo

Neither is belief evidence of anything. Mencken talked about that as I've mentioned here before. Faith, belief as you use it here, is often just an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable, and if there was ever an improbable story, it is the Official Conspiracy Theory.

All this time here, I never realized you were attempting to educate other posters. I find that a noble goal, but on this particular question, a bit vain, considering that some of us have been studying the evidence for quite a few years.

On this particular subject matters, yours is not so much education as it is repetition of a story that cannot withstand even the most superficial scrutiny.

[booNyzarC]

Boo

Neither is belief evidence of anything. Mencken talked about that as I've mentioned here before. Faith, belief as you use it here, is often just an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable, and if there was ever an improbable story, it is the Official Conspiracy Theory.

All this time here, I never realized you were attempting to educate other posters. I find that a noble goal, but on this particular question, a bit vain, considering that some of us have been studying the evidence for quite a few years.

On this particular subject matters, yours is not so much education as it is repetition of a story that cannot withstand even the most superficial scrutiny.

BR, my request for evidence goes doubly so for you. All you've ever done here is run off your weaselly little mouth like the true propagandist you are.

I've provided considerable evidence and references in support of my position, including research, calculations, models, and graphics which I have personally developed; to help educate and answer questions which I consider valid and worthy of explanation. Where these materials and answers have been provided by others, certainly I have referred people, including yourself, to those answers and that information.

You, and several like you, blindly go on about your merry way without even considering such information and answers. Instead you merely shirk them off and continue to spout your nonsensical and long ago debunked drivel over and over again.

So it goes.

[skyeagle409]

BR, my request for evidence goes doubly so for you. All you've ever done here is run off your weaselly little mouth like the true propagandist you are.

I've provided considerable evidence and references in support of my position, including research, calculations, models, and graphics which I have personally developed; to help educate and answer questions which I consider valid and worthy of explanation. Where these materials and answers have been provided by others, certainly I have referred people, including yourself, to those answers and that information.

You, and several like you, blindly go on about your merry way without even considering such information and answers. Instead you merely shirk them off and continue to spout your nonsensical and long ago debunked drivel over and over again.

So it goes.

BR, must think that people were born yesterday.

[Babe Ruth]

BR, my request for evidence goes doubly so for you. All you've ever done here is run off your weaselly little mouth like the true propagandist you are.

I've provided considerable evidence and references in support of my position, including research, calculations, models, and graphics which I have personally developed; to help educate and answer questions which I consider valid and worthy of explanation. Where these materials and answers have been provided by others, certainly I have referred people, including yourself, to those answers and that information.

You, and several like you, blindly go on about your merry way without even considering such information and answers. Instead you merely shirk them off and continue to spout your nonsensical and long ago debunked drivel over and over again.

So it goes.

Yes Boo, you have provided many links and pictures. What you seem to forget is that I basically was on your side for several years. So I thank you for your effort to educate me, but I've fairly well educated myself, thanks in large part to this internet and its wealth of information.

Simply put, the links, pictures and statements you've offered are not persuasive. You are unable to address serious concerns and questions. Mere repetition of the government story really doesn't prove anything to a curious mind.

Nobody can explain the heat source at WTC. Nobody can explain how a minimally skilled rookie pilot could do what he did except by saying "Well, he did it, get over it."

Sorry Charlie, that answer might be good enough for you, but it's not good enough for me.

[skyeagle409]

Simply put, the links, pictures and statements you've offered are not persuasive.

Evidence, is evidence! You dismissed viable evidence and yet, you threw in a P700 anti-ship cruise missile for which there was no evidence.

Nobody can explain the heat source at WTC.

Very simple! Fires within the WTC buildings fed by the contents within the WTC buildings.

Sorry Charlie, that answer might be good enough for you, but it's not good enough for me.

Since you have shown a serious lack of knowledge on facts and evidence, it is not surprising.

Edited October 17, 2012 by skyeagle409

[TrueBeliever]

Evidence, is evidence! You dismissed viable evidence and yet, you threw in a P700 anti-ship cruise missile for which there was no evidence.

Very simple! Fires within the WTC buildings fed by the contents within the WTC buildings.

Since you have shown a serious lack of knowledge on facts and evidence, it is not surprising.

How rude and derogatory would you be to a say...FBI agent with extensive knowledge and understanding of evidence who tells you there are many many problems, inconsistencies, omissions and cover ups with the official 'story? Do you think they are all wacky conspiracy nuts too?

[Czero 101]

How rude and derogatory would you be to a say...FBI agent with extensive knowledge and understanding of evidence who tells you there are many many problems, inconsistencies, omissions and cover ups with the official 'story? Do you think they are all wacky conspiracy nuts too?

I guess it would depend upon what evidence he / she was able to produce, or are you saying that we should just take their word on it "on faith" with no need for any kind of evidentiary support...?

Cz

[skyeagle409]

How rude and derogatory would you be to a say...FBI agent with extensive knowledge and understanding of evidence who tells you there are many many problems, inconsistencies, omissions and cover ups with the official 'story? Do you think they are all wacky conspiracy nuts too?

I have posted details on intelligence failures leading up to the 9/11 attacks, which included the FBI, and there was nothing in the details implicating the U.S. government in the 9/11 attacks.

[TrueBeliever]

I guess it would depend upon what evidence he / she was able to produce, or are you saying that we should just take their word on it "on faith" with no need for any kind of evidentiary support...?

Cz

Of course you would want evidence......memos, phone calls, meetings, physical, whatever type. My point is this. There are some really good people who tried to protect this country and its citizens and they were thwarted and lied to and sometimes plain ignored.....the EVIDENCE they had was ignored many times.... Does that bother you...at all? Does that not raise any flags to you? or is the official story good enough because well...they said so? Even members of the 9/11 Commission were thwarted and lied too, and they didn't like it one bit.

As I have said before, any thinking rational open minded person who has investigated and researched the events prior to and the day of 9/11 knows that we have not been told the real truths of that awful awful day. Obviously we cannot get all of the evidence we need. The masterminds will never allow that. There are so many layers of bs it is overwhelming. But many reputable intelligent good people KNOW we have been deceived. Just because some conspiracy theorists are nutty doesn't mean every alternative theory/explanation is wrong or crazy........

I just wish all Americans could be united in wanting to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. as brutal as it may be. THEY depend upon the obedient masses who are too scared to be labeled crazy and labeled a conspiracy nut.......

[skyeagle409]

Of course you would want evidence......memos, phone calls, meetings, physical, whatever type. My point is this. There are some really good people who tried to protect this country and its citizens and they were thwarted and lied to and sometimes plain ignored.....the EVIDENCE they had was ignored many times.... Does that bother you...at all? Does that not raise any flags to you? or is the official story good enough because well...they said so? Even members of the 9/11 Commission were thwarted and lied too, and they didn't like it one bit.

As I have said before, any thinking rational open minded person who has investigated and researched the events prior to and the day of 9/11 knows that we have not been told the real truths of that awful awful day. Obviously we cannot get all of the evidence we need. The masterminds will never allow that. There are so many layers of bs it is overwhelming. But many reputable intelligent good people KNOW we have been deceived. Just because some conspiracy theorists are nutty doesn't mean every alternative theory/explanation is wrong or crazy........

I just wish all Americans could be united in wanting to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. as brutal as it may be. THEY depend upon the obedient masses who are too scared to be labeled crazy and labeled a conspiracy nut.......

The problem is, too many people have been mislead by 9/11 conspiracy website, which are notorious for spreading disinformation, misinformation, and lies.

[TrueBeliever]

The problem is, too many people have been mislead by 9/11 conspiracy website, which are notorious for spreading disinformation, misinformation, and lies.

Well I definitely agree with that.....

But that does not mean any alternative theory/explanation to the 'official' story is false, or wacky. Quite frankly some of the garbage the officials have spewed is just as bad. Probably worse, seeing as how many lives were lost due to complete and total incompetence/participation or a combo of the two.

One day i hope those with the evidence will be able to speak and then.....then you will KNOW the official story is BULL&*****.

[Czero 101]

Of course you would want evidence......memos, phone calls, meetings, physical, whatever type.

Ok, stopping here for a moment...

What would you say then to someone who claims that the "official story" is a lie, claims that there is evidence to support his claims yet goes to extreme lengths to avoid producing any of that alleged evidence, even going so far as to openly lie about his ability to use a computer as an excuse for not producing links to the evidence he maintains is available and has seen, and continually handwaves away any and all evidence that proves his wrong as part of the Government's "official lie" since the government "has lied before and therefore nothing they say can be looked at as accurate of believable.

Would you want this person arguing on your side of the proverbial fence?

Would you consider it "rude and derogatory" to point out to others that this person has lied in the past, continues to do so, purposely misinterprets or disregards evidence for no other reason than to avoid having to answer tough questions that reveal the falsehood and folly of his position, produces strawman arguments and red herrings to try and avoid having to address the issues presented to him, claims experience and knowledge of the topics under discussion yet when pressed for details, when giving answers to some questions and when giving descriptions of how he thinks events happened or should have happened makes such egregious errors in logic and basic knowledge that it becomes clear that the person really has nothing more (and in some instances, substantially less) than a layman's level of knowledge of the topics he claims personal professional experience in...?

My point is this. There are some really good people who tried to protect this country and its citizens and they were thwarted and lied to and sometimes plain ignored.....the EVIDENCE they had was ignored many times.... Does that bother you...at all? Does that not raise any flags to you? or is the official story good enough because well...they said so? Even members of the 9/11 Commission were thwarted and lied too, and they didn't like it one bit.

As I have said before, any thinking rational open minded person who has investigated and researched the events prior to and the day of 9/11 knows that we have not been told the real truths of that awful awful day. Obviously we cannot get all of the evidence we need. The masterminds will never allow that. There are so many layers of bs it is overwhelming. But many reputable intelligent good people KNOW we have been deceived. Just because some conspiracy theorists are nutty doesn't mean every alternative theory/explanation is wrong or crazy........

I just wish all Americans could be united in wanting to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. as brutal as it may be. THEY depend upon the obedient masses who are too scared to be labeled crazy and labeled a conspiracy nut.......

The problem that I see is that there are so many varied and different "conspiracy theories" out there. Some flatly contradict each other. Some require leaps of faith or logic so vast that Evel Knievel himself would balk at making that jump.

More importantly, there isn't one complete theory, imo, that addresses ALL the evidence, that accounts for everything as well as or as completely as what people call the "Official Narrative" or more derogatorily the "Official Lie" or "Official Conspiracy Theory".

Its the same thing with the Moon Landing hoax. There are a few theories that focus on one or two individual oddities or inconsistencies (none of which have ever stood up to any amount of serious scrutiny), but there is nothing that addresses the event in its massively complex entirety, all the facts and figures and mountains of evidence that prove Man went to the Moon.

Sure there are a few oddities and even a few holes (maybe more than a few) in the Official Story, and yeah, there's a good chance we're not being told every single thing about what happened or who knew what exactly when, but until someone can come up with something that addresses all the facts of the day more completely and logically, the "Official Narrative"remains the accepted fact(s) of the day regardless of what you or anyone else thinks or believes.

Cz

Edited October 17, 2012 by Czero 101

[TrueBeliever]

Ok, stopping here for a moment...

What would you say then to someone who claims that the "official story" is a lie, claims that there is evidence to support his claims yet goes to extreme lengths to avoid producing any of that alleged evidence, even going so far as to openly lie about his ability to use a computer as an excuse for not producing links to the evidence he maintains is available and has seen, and continually handwaves away any and all evidence that proves his wrong as part of the Government's "official lie" since the government "has lied before and therefore nothing they say can be looked at as accurate of believable.

Would you want this person arguing on your side of the proverbial fence?

Would you consider it "rude and derogatory" to point out to others that this person has lied in the past, continues to do so, purposely misinterprets or disregards evidence for no other reason than to avoid having to answer tough questions that reveal the falsehood and folly of his position, produces strawman arguments and red herrings to try and avoid having to address the issues presented to him, claims experience and knowledge of the topics under discussion yet when pressed for details, when giving answers to some questions and when giving descriptions of how he thinks events happened or should have happened makes such egregious errors in logic and basic knowledge that it becomes clear that the person really has nothing more (and in some instances, substantially less) than a layman's level of knowledge of the topics he claims personal professional experience in...?

The problem that I see is that there are so many varied and different "conspiracy theories" out there. Some flatly contradict each other. Some require leaps of faith or logic so vast that Evel Knievel himself would balk at making that jump.

More importantly, there isn't one complete theory, imo, that addresses ALL the evidence, that accounts for everything as well as or as completely as what people call the "Official Narrative" or more derogatorily the "Official Lie" or "Official Conspiracy Theory".

Its the same thing with the Moon Landing hoax. There are a few theories that focus on one or two individual oddities or inconsistencies (none of which have ever stood up to any amount of serious scrutiny), but there is nothing that addresses the event in its massively complex entirety, all the facts and figures and mountains of evidence that prove Man went to the Moon.

Sure there are a few oddities and even a few holes (maybe more than a few) in the Official Story, and yeah, there's a good chance we're not being told every single thing about what happened or who knew what exactly when, but until someone can come up with something that addresses all the facts of the day more completely and logically, the "Official Narrative"remains the accepted fact(s) of the day regardless of what you or anyone else thinks or believes.

Cz

I would just wonder why you still aggravate yourself with replying or posting back and forth......lol

There are lots of wackos...conspiracy minded and otherwise. Choose your battles I say. I don't worry about who argues for 'my' side...I don't look at the pursuit of truth and justice as 'mine'......I don't really care at the end of the day who believes me or listens to me....I just like to encourage people to think and not accept 'official' stories as the truth. If ya don't then fine.....if someone aggravates me too bad I move on.....no biggie really.

Having an alternative explanation doesn't mean someone is a kookie conspiratorial wacky nut.....sometimes it does;) lol but not always.

I am more offended when high ranking officials lie to me..and give preposterous explanations....but hey that's just me.

[skyeagle409]

One day i hope those with the evidence will be able to speak and then.....then you will KNOW the official story is BULL&*****.

Available evidence does not implicate the U.S. government in the 9/11 attacks, and it has been more than 11 years since the 9/11 attacks, so how long did it take for the Watergate scandal to bring down the Nixon Administration?

Edited October 17, 2012 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

I would just wonder why you still aggravate yourself with replying or posting back and forth......lol

There are lots of wackos...conspiracy minded and otherwise. Choose your battles I say. I don't worry about who argues for 'my' side...I don't look at the pursuit of truth and justice as 'mine'......I don't really care at the end of the day who believes me or listens to me....I just like to encourage people to think and not accept 'official' stories as the truth. If ya don't then fine.....if someone aggravates me too bad I move on.....no biggie really.

Having an alternative explanation doesn't mean someone is a kookie conspiratorial wacky nut.....sometimes it does;) lol but not always.

I am more offended when high ranking officials lie to me..and give preposterous explanations....but hey that's just me.

In regards to 9/11, detail lies of the government.