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Pulsar_J

911

994 posts in this topic

Thanks Raptor. Though we don't agree for the most part, it seems to me you are the straightest shooter in the OCT crowd.

Like you and me, Ross & Furlong are mere mortals. That they do not understand, or choose to ignore, the fine point you bring up about the potential lag time for radar data, is beyond my control. Their claim that it is unquestionable is clearly wrong.

But the question is, WHERE do we begin? Which implies that IF the radar data is good enough, reliable enough, for the 911 Commission, then it is good enough for their analysis. In any rational public dialogue, there must be some sort of starting point. For their analysis, where else to start? What else to use?

And the other part of the equation is that by random chance, it is possible that the time cited happened to be as precise as could be, by sheer happenstance on the timing of the radar sweep. So we are basically down to a coin toss here, as to whether it is precisely accurate or not.

So I am agreeing with you that IT IS POSSIBLE that the error and time delay works against accurate analysis. But there are other factors too. Besides the seismic data they cite, there are a number of fellow employees who corroborate Rodriguez' testimony. And that fact tends to support the conclusions of Ross & Furlong.

And all the other circumstantial evidence that suggests explosives and thermite were in use that day.

And with your permission, we could discuss the fatal flaw to the Pentagon story, the Citgo witnesses, on some other thread that you might consider appropriate. Or, in sequence, if you consider our agreement on your point to be satisfactory? :tu:

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Thanks Raptor. Though we don't agree for the most part, it seems to me you are the straightest shooter in the OCT crowd.

Like you and me, Ross & Furlong are mere mortals. That they do not understand, or choose to ignore, the fine point you bring up about the potential lag time for radar data, is beyond my control. Their claim that it is unquestionable is clearly wrong.

But the question is, WHERE do we begin? Which implies that IF the radar data is good enough, reliable enough, for the 911 Commission, then it is good enough for their analysis. In any rational public dialogue, there must be some sort of starting point. For their analysis, where else to start? What else to use?

And the other part of the equation is that by random chance, it is possible that the time cited happened to be as precise as could be, by sheer happenstance on the timing of the radar sweep. So we are basically down to a coin toss here, as to whether it is precisely accurate or not.

So I am agreeing with you that IT IS POSSIBLE that the error and time delay works against accurate analysis. But there are other factors too. Besides the seismic data they cite, there are a number of fellow employees who corroborate Rodriguez' testimony. And that fact tends to support the conclusions of Ross & Furlong.

And all the other circumstantial evidence that suggests explosives and thermite were in use that day.

Demolition experts, recovery crews and investigators found no evidence of explosives nor thermite usage. :no:

And with your permission, we could discuss the fatal flaw to the Pentagon story, the Citgo witnesses,...

Physical damage do not support witnesses who claimed that American 77 passed north of the Pentagon. In fact, direct physical evidence inside and outside the Pentagon disproves claims that American 77 passed north of the gas station. There are no downed light poles north of the gas station which is another indication that American 77 did not pass north of the gas station.

polecomposite.jpg

numberedpoles.jpg

overheadpolespath.jpg

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generator3.jpg

Edited by skyeagle409

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What are your thoughts America?

Here are some very recent thoughts picked from the web about 911 and several prominent, yet untimely deaths that occurred just within the last couple of weeks:

Things that make you go hhhmmmmmmmmmm…..?

He said he wanted to expose something at work’

In his $5 million mansion, Robert McKeon, head of private equity firm, Veritas Capital, commits suicide by strangling himself.

Strangling himself???????

Awhile later, the news reports or claims that Albert Peterson, a wealthy defense contractor, formerly with Northrop Grumman, and presently employed as a Senior Subcontracts Administrator with BAE Systems Information Technology, murdered his wife and children, then turned his gun on himself, committing suicide.

A terrible tragedy, and the news reports further claimed Mr. Peterson was supposed to have committed those horrific acts because he was afraid President Obama would be reelected!

Because he was afraid President Obama would be reelected?????????????

One enterprising journalist actually did report that the now-deceased Mrs. Peterson had mentioned to a co-worker at defense contractor, Blackbird Technologies, where she worked, that her husband was troubled by something he had learned at BAE which he was seriously concerned about. Albert Peterson had been involved with a BAE unit which a few years previously had been owned by Veritas Capital, then later sold to BAE.

It should be noted that Robert McKeon’s Veritas Capital had made some extremely fortuitous investments in the defense industry shortly prior to 9/11/01. Some months prior to 9/11, Veritas Capital had also purchased Raytheon Aerospace, a subsidiary of Raytheon.

Aboard several of those four ill-fated airliners on 9/11/01 were developers of remote piloting hardware/software from Veritas Capital’s Raytheon Aerospace, and several similar subcontractors (from BAE, I believe).

Sounds more like a brutal cleanup crew was active --- cleansing a possible leak of a probably innocent man and his family, and the private equity principal of a highly profitable operation eleven years earlier.

(While it may be the only actual coincidence here, it should also be noted that several years ago --- or the last time we checked --- the majority shareholders in Northrop Grumman were James Baker and the Bush family.)

Things that make you go hhhmmmmmmmmmm…..?

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Here are some very recent thoughts picked from the web about 911 and several prominent, yet untimely deaths that occurred just within the last couple of weeks:

hhhhmmmmm!

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Here is my thought's on 9/11 that I posted in another topic.....

"There are three possibilities that I believe can be or possibly is the truth in the 9/11 attack's....

One

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it (to give them an excuse to go on the war path ?)

Two

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it, PLUS the government prepared for it and facilitated the demise of building 7 (to hide various document's ? to make it look worse than what it is ? to cause more hatred for terrorism/terrorist's ?)

Three

The Government knew that the attack was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen because THEY or the CIA facilitated the whole thing

Whether that be with the help of AlQaeda or not is another matter

If Nothing else, primarily ALL the INNOCENT people that died in the 9/11 attack's and their families, and also people that knew them, and also EVERY American citizen deserve's the truth

And also ALL the INNOCENT people that have died their families, and also people that knew them, in Iraq and Afghanistan due to the "War on Terror" also deserve the truth

And I dont know about You, but I would like to know the truth....."

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Here is my thought's on 9/11 that I posted in another topic.....

"There are three possibilities that I believe can be or possibly is the truth in the 9/11 attack's....

One

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it (to give them an excuse to go on the war path ?)

The government was warned by countries around the world before 9/11, that terrorist were planning to use aircraft as weapons and in fact, the Philippines revealed a plot to the United States of terrorist plans to use airliners as weapons and one plan involved the use of an airplane as a weapon to attack the headquarters of the CIA.

]Two[/b]

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it, PLUS the government prepared for it and facilitated the demise of building 7 (to hide various document's ? to make it look worse than what it is ? to cause more hatred for terrorism/terrorist's ?)

Our intelligence agencies dropped the ball on 9/11 because of missteps and bungling between agencies that has been going on for many years before the 9/11 attacks.

Three

The Government knew that the attack was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen because THEY or the CIA facilitated the whole thing

The Bojinka Plot, a plot revealed to the United States, shows that the CIA headquarters was also targeted by terrorist who planned to use an airplane as a weapon to attack the CIA, so we can exclude the CIA by that very fact. Why would the government allow terrorist to attack the Pentagon?

If Nothing else, primarily ALL the INNOCENT people that died in the 9/11 attack's and their families, and also people that knew them, and also EVERY American citizen deserve's the truth

The American people have been presented with the truth and evidence, but there are 9/11 conspiracist who have distorted the truth and evidence..

And I dont know about You, but I would like to know the truth....."

Then look at the evidence and not conspiracist who are in the habit of distorting the truth and evidence and the use of hoaxed and deceptive videos and photos. In other words, don't fall victim to their machine of deception.

Edited by skyeagle409

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hhhhmmmmm!

Here's a really fascinating report that is a must-read:

On September 11, 2001 three hijacked airliners hit three separate buildings with such precision and skill that many observers believe those flights were controlled by something other than the poorly trained hijackers in the cockpits. This report contends that not only were the buildings targets, but that specific offices within each building were the designated targets.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4866520/Collateral-Damage-911-Covert-Ops-Funding-Targeted

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Here are some very recent thoughts picked from the web about 911 and several prominent, yet untimely deaths that occurred just within the last couple of weeks:

Defense contractors use commercial airlines for transportation purpose around the world everyday, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were contractors on all four airliners and not surprised at the acquisition process regarding defense contractors.

For an example, after my retirement from the Air Force, I went to work for Raytheon Aerospace at Travis AFB, CA. on an Air Force contract and within a few years, Vertex Aerospace took over from Raytheon Aerospace, and not long after that, the contract was taken over by L3 Communications. After completion of the contract at Travis, I went to work on a contract at Corpus Christi, TX, for L3 Communications and two years later, AECOM took over the contract, and the year after that, L3 came back and took the contract from AECOM.

Nothing new to me there, but to those who are not familiar with the way things are in the real world of aviation, and as they pertain to our defense contractors, they concoct conspiracy theories not knowing the rest of the story or fall victim to those whose agenda is to distort the truth and evidence.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Nothing new to me there, but to those who are not familiar with the way things are in the real world of aviation, and as they pertain to our defense contractors, they concoct conspiracy theories not knowing the rest of the story or fall victim to those whose agenda is to distort the truth and evidence.

Ever feel like the Little Dutch Boy? With all of your fingers and toes stuck in a crumbling dam that holds back a potential tsunami of truth?

Just take a deep breath and keep repeating to yourself:

"They Hate Us For Our Freedom"

"They Hate Us For Our Freedom"

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The government was warned by countries around the world before 9/11, that terrorist were planning to use aircraft as weapons and in fact, the Philippines revealed a plot to the United States of terrorist plans to use airliners as weapons and one plan involved the use of an airplane as a weapon to attack the headquarters of the CIA.

And You still wander why there is people that believe that the government knew that the attack was coming....

Our intelligence agencies dropped the ball on 9/11 because of missteps and bungling between agencies that has been going on for many years before the 9/11 attacks.

Dropped the ball is putting it very lightly.... seeing as NORAD was on a stand down, and told not to do anything or intercept the aircraft in question

The Bojinka Plot, a plot revealed to the United States, shows that the CIA headquarters was also targeted by terrorist who planned to use an airplane as a weapon to attack the CIA, so we can exclude the CIA by that very fact.

Can You really expect me or anyone else to exclude anything to do with the CIA, based on that fact ? are You NOT following the evidence that is relevent to the attack's on the Pentagon or 9/11 as a whole ???

Or are You just finding reason's/excuses why they (CIA/government) would not do such a thing ?

Just because the Bojinka plot existed, does NOT mean that the CIA did not have anything to do with the attack's......

Why would the government allow terrorist to attack the Pentagon?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7904516028875682825

What transpired on 9/10 could be the very reason why the pentagon was hit.....

Apparently the area of the Pentagon that was hit had computer's/record's of such information that shed light on the missing money, and could be the reason why

The American people have been presented with the truth and evidence, but there are 9/11 conspiracist who have distorted the truth and evidence..

Dont make me laugh..............

When the American people have been presented with the full 100% evidence of what transpired that day then and ONLY THEN they have or will have been presented with the TRUTH

While the government witholds such evidence and information then they are NOT presenting the American people with anything but their version of event's....

And yes I agree that there has been various people that have distorted the truth and evidence.... NOT just CT's but people that work for the government too

Then look at the evidence and not conspiracist who are in the habit of distorting the truth and evidence and the use of hoaxed and deceptive videos and photos. In other words, don't fall victim to their machine of deception.

Excuse me... BUT I have been following/looking at the evidence and I have NOT been misled by ANYONE let alone CT's or even the government

The deception work's BOTH WAYS, while there is CT's that like to decieve, so do the government..... (the government, in my opinion has a lot more to lose, not just respect etc that CT's have to lose)

Deception is rife in the government's and not just in CT's, while You can and possibly do accept that CT's are or can be deceptive and not think that the government's are too, then that boggle's my mind, and it also show's that You are not open minded and not seeking the truth (in my opinion), no matter what the truth may be....

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Here is my thought's on 9/11 that I posted in another topic.....

"There are three possibilities that I believe can be or possibly is the truth in the 9/11 attack's....

One

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it (to give them an excuse to go on the war path ?)

Two

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it, PLUS the government prepared for it and facilitated the demise of building 7 (to hide various document's ? to make it look worse than what it is ? to cause more hatred for terrorism/terrorist's ?)

Three

The Government knew that the attack was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen because THEY or the CIA facilitated the whole thing

Whether that be with the help of AlQaeda or not is another matter

If Nothing else, primarily ALL the INNOCENT people that died in the 9/11 attack's and their families, and also people that knew them, and also EVERY American citizen deserve's the truth

And also ALL the INNOCENT people that have died their families, and also people that knew them, in Iraq and Afghanistan due to the "War on Terror" also deserve the truth

And I dont know about You, but I would like to know the truth....."

So you don't even think it is possible that the attacks took place pretty much as determined and our lack of preparedness for it was more because of intelligence screwups than anything else? You don't think it's possible that the government and/or intelligence agencies had no conscious role in facilitating the events?

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<<Posting here so additional posts in this thread will show up in my notification box.>>

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So you don't even think it is possible that the attacks took place pretty much as determined and our lack of preparedness for it was more because of intelligence screwups than anything else? You don't think it's possible that the government and/or intelligence agencies had no conscious role in facilitating the events?

That is inconceivable because a number of the men who entered the United States and later became the 9/11 hijackers were known Al Qaeda terrorists and under close intelligence surveillance at the time, yet they were assisted in acquiring money, renting accommodation and booking flying lessons by intelligence assets and when the FBI tried to correct the situation of having terrorists inside the country, the CIA bin Laden unit blocked that intervention. So no, it does not look like a screw up at all, but an intelligence driven false flag operation.

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So you don't even think it is possible that the attacks took place pretty much as determined and our lack of preparedness for it was more because of intelligence screwups than anything else? You don't think it's possible that the government and/or intelligence agencies had no conscious role in facilitating the events?

With how good the intelligence agencies in America is and how much money the government spend on intelligence, I cannot believe You asked that question TBH

The three possibilitie's that I have posted are the only three thing's that I currently believe are possible due to the various numerous bit's of evidence that I have seen so far, if there is ANY evidence that contradict's my belief's then I will adjust my belief's/view's accordingly, due to evidence and nothing else

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That is inconceivable because a number of the men who entered the United States and later became the 9/11 hijackers were known Al Qaeda terrorists and under close intelligence surveillance at the time, yet they were assisted in acquiring money, renting accommodation and booking flying lessons by intelligence assets and when the FBI tried to correct the situation of having terrorists inside the country, the CIA bin Laden unit blocked that intervention. So no, it does not look like a screw up at all, but an intelligence driven false flag operation.

According to you.

With how good the intelligence agencies in America is and how much money the government spend on intelligence, I cannot believe You asked that question TBH

The three possibilitie's that I have posted are the only three thing's that I currently believe are possible due to the various numerous bit's of evidence that I have seen so far, if there is ANY evidence that contradict's my belief's then I will adjust my belief's/view's accordingly, due to evidence and nothing else

Thanks for clarifying Jack.

Cheers.

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That is inconceivable because a number of the men who entered the United States and later became the 9/11 hijackers were known Al Qaeda terrorists and under close intelligence surveillance at the time, yet they were assisted in acquiring money, renting accommodation and booking flying lessons by intelligence assets and when the FBI tried to correct the situation of having terrorists inside the country, the CIA bin Laden unit blocked that intervention. So no, it does not look like a screw up at all, but an intelligence driven false flag operation.

Investigations highlighted intelligence failures of of the FBI and the CIA and have determined that our intelligence services dropped the ball prior to the 9/11 attacks and even the CIA later admitted that it made mistakes. To add to that, 9/11 conspiracist have failed to provide a single shred of evidence implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks.

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According to you.

No, according to facts on the ground, and this is another case where you’ve come out with a pointless off the cuff response without taking onboard the information I've provided. Yes, elements of U.S. and foreign intelligence assisted the 9/11 hijackers, who even beforehand were known Al Qaeda linked terrorists, there's no doubt about it. People only need research the comments and movements of FBI agent Steve Bongardt, Congressman Bob Graham, Saudi operative Omar al-Bayoumi and hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar to confirm these actions.

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Investigations highlighted intelligence failures of of the FBI and the CIA and have determined that our intelligence services dropped the ball prior to the 9/11 attacks and even the CIA later admitted that it made mistakes. To add to that, 9/11 conspiracist have failed to provide a single shred of evidence implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks.

Show me where FBI agent Steve Bongardt 'dropped the ball' or, failing that, kindly shut up spouting misinformation.

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With how good the intelligence agencies in America is and how much money the government spend on intelligence, I cannot believe You asked that question TBH

It has known for many years that our intelligence agencies suffered many problems and even field offices of the FBI across the country failed their inspections.

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Show me where FBI agent Steve Bongardt 'dropped the ball' or, failing that, kindly shut up spouting misinformation.

It has been known our intelligence services dropped the ball and I do believe that you were unaware that the CIA loss contact with al-Qaeda terrorist in Malaysia and the fact that CIA was unaware that the terrorist were actually in Thailand until I brought it up. So once again, you have no leg to stand on. :no:

Fact of the matter is, I also posted the admission of the CIA, which depicted intelligence failures surrounding the 9/11 attacks and nothing to do with a government conspiracy. :no:

CIA boss admits intelligence failures over 9/11 attacks

THE HEAD of the CIA yesterday admitted that his agents had flatly failed to penetrate the September 11 plot and said it would be at least five years before America developed the sort of intelligence capabilities to take on terrorists such as al-Qa'ida.

George Tenet, whose agency was roundly criticised by the commission investigating the attacks, said that he and his colleagues had failed those people who died in the strikes in New York and Washington.

"We all understood bin Laden's attempt to strike the homeland. We never translated this knowledge into an effective defence of the country," Mr Tenet testified before the commission.

"No matter how hard we worked, or how desperately we tried, it was not enough. The victims and the families of 9/11 deserved better."

The failures, outlined in a statement issued by the commission and admitted to by Mr Tenet, were not failures of effort or of intention. Rather a picture emerged of an intelligence community still grounded in the challenges of the Cold War and ill-prepared and ill-equipped to deal with the threat presented by stateless terrorists using unconventional means of attack.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/cia-boss-admits-intelligence-failures-over-911-attacks-176015.html

Question is: Why are you attempting to prevent me from revealing intelligence failures of the FBI and the CIA?

Edited by skyeagle409

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It has been known our intelligence services dropped the ball and I do believe that you were unaware that the CIA loss contact with al-Qaeda terrorist in Malaysia and the fact that CIA was unaware that the terrorist were actually in Thailand until I brought it up. So once again, you have no leg to stand on. :no:

Fact of the matter is, I also posted the admission of the CIA, which depicted intelligence failures surrounding the 9/11 attacks and nothing to do with a government conspiracy. :no:

Exactly what I thought I'd get - a lot of babble that doesn't meet the information I requested to back your claims.

Is it when FBI agent Steve Bongardt said this, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Dina, you got to be kidding me! Almihdhar is in the country?”

Or this: -

“If this guy [Almihdhar] is in the country, it’s not because he’s going to ****ing
Disneyland
!”

Was it when he was blocked by the CIA and NSLU from going after future hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar inside the United States and said this prior to 9/11, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Whatever has happened to this—someday someone will die—and wall or not—the
public
will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems’. Let’s hope the [Justice Department’s]
National Security
Law Unit will
stand
behind their decisions then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL [Osama bin Laden], is getting the most ‘
protection
’.”

Agent Steve Bongardt, like most of the FBI, did not ‘drop the ball’ – he was consciously prevented from doing his job. It makes me sick when you falsely lay blame and lump FBI intelligence in as having ‘dropped the ball’ – it’s rubbish. If ‘the ball’ is the hijackers then everyone was right ‘on the ball’. Yet some elements of intelligence agencies did the precise opposite of what would be expected to prevent a terrorist attack – the result is they positively facilitated it; it could not have happened without that action.

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Exactly what I thought I'd get - a lot of babble that doesn't meet the information I requested to back your claims.

Is it when FBI agent Steve Bongardt said this, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Dina, you got to be kidding me! Almihdhar is in the country?”

Or this: -

“If this guy [Almihdhar] is in the country, it’s not because he’s going to ****ing
Disneyland
!”

Was it when he was blocked by the CIA and NSLU from going after future hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar inside the United States and said this prior to 9/11, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Whatever has happened to this—someday someone will die—and wall or not—the
public
will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems’. Let’s hope the [Justice Department’s]
National Security
Law Unit will
stand
behind their decisions then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL [Osama bin Laden], is getting the most ‘
protection
’.”

Agent Steve Bongardt, like most of the FBI, did not ‘drop the ball’ – he was consciously prevented from doing his job. It makes me sick when you falsely lay blame and lump FBI intelligence in as having ‘dropped the ball’ – it’s rubbish. If ‘the ball’ is the hijackers then everyone was right ‘on the ball’. Yet some elements of intelligence agencies did the precise opposite of what would be expected to prevent a terrorist attack – the result is they positively facilitated it; it could not have happened without that action.

Apparently, you didn't understand what I meant when I said 'Intelligence failures of our intelligence agencies.

9/11 commission faults U.S. intelligence

U.S. intelligence gathering was fragmented and poorly coordinated before the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the 9/11 commission reported Wednesday, adding that it remains unclear how such crucial information is managed.

"A question remains: Who is in charge of intelligence?" reads the final line of a critical report by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, as the bipartisan 9/11 panel is formally known.

The report, examining the performance of the intelligence community, described a "loose collection" of intelligence agencies that often operated independently of one another with little communication or cooperation. And it faulted CIA Director George Tenet for not having a management strategy to battle terrorism before the 9/11 attacks.

http://articles.cnn....=PM:ALLPOLITICS

Pre-9/11 Missteps By FBI Detailed

The inability to detect the Sept. 11, 2001, hijacking plot amounts to a "significant failure" by the FBI and was caused in large part by "widespread and longstanding deficiencies" in the way the agency handled terrorism and intelligence cases, according to a report released yesterday.

In one particularly notable finding, the report by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine concluded that the FBI missed at least five chances to detect the presence of two of the suicide hijackers -- Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar -- after they first entered the United States in early 2000.

"While we do not know what would have happened had the FBI learned sooner or pursued its investigation more aggressively, the FBI lost several important opportunities to find Hazmi and Mihdhar before the September 11 attacks," the report said.

Although many of the missteps surrounding Alhazmi and Almihdhar have become well known, Fine's report adds significant new details about the FBI's role in fumbling the case. Previous reports, including the best-selling tome by the independent Sept. 11 commission, focused more heavily on the CIA's failure to track the men after a pivotal terrorist summit meeting in Malaysia.

The 371-page report is the latest in a stream of assessments from Congress, the Sept. 11 panel and other investigators documenting serious shortcomings in the performance of various U.S. government agencies in the months leading up to the hijackings. It also comes amid a wave of criticism of the FBI in recent months over a scrapped $170 million software program and its continuing struggle to attract qualified analysts, translators and other intelligence personnel.

"We believe that widespread and longstanding deficiencies in the FBI's operations and Counterterrorism Program caused the problems we described in this report," Fine's investigators wrote, including a shoddy analytical program, problems sharing intelligence information and "the lack of priority given to counterterrorism investigations by the FBI before September 11."

Jamie S. Gorelick, a deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration who served as a member of the Sept. 11 panel, said the "litany of reports" documenting FBI problems in recent months "has to be a wake-up call" for Director Robert S. Mueller III and other FBI officials. "I think they believe they have made significant progress, but there is still quite a bit of work to be done," she said.

Even after the FBI learned that the pair had reentered the United States in August 2001, "the FBI did not pursue this as an urgent matter or assign many resources to it," the report found, noting that "it was given to a single, inexperienced agent without any particular priority." Agents within the bureau were also hampered by disagreements over the hazy rules governing the separation between criminal and intelligence investigations.

In the end, the report concludes, "the FBI was not close to locating Mihdhar or Hazmi when they participated in the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001."

http://www.washingto...5060902000.html

Intelligence Failures: The FBI, the CIA and 9/11 - with Amy Zegart

In her new book, Spying Blind: The CIA, the FBI, and the Origins of 9/11, Amy Zegart argues that many of the failures of the intelligence community in the months leading up to 9/11 can be attributed to an aging organizational structure that had not been updated or modified to deal with contemporary threats like global terrorism. Six years later, Zegart argues that all of the nation's worst intelligence deficiencies remain and with the recent passing of the 60 th anniversary of the CIA, the time is ripe for a reconsideration of the organizational weaknesses that have afflicted American intelligence agencies for decades and continue to stand in the way of reform.

http://www.worldaffa...amy-zegart.html

Nothing there implicating the United States in the 9/11 attacks.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Exactly what I thought I'd get - a lot of babble that doesn't meet the information I requested to back your claims.

Is it when FBI agent Steve Bongardt said this, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Dina, you got to be kidding me! Almihdhar is in the country?”

Or this: -

“If this guy [Almihdhar] is in the country, it’s not because he’s going to ****ing
Disneyland
!”

Was it when he was blocked by the CIA and NSLU from going after future hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar inside the United States and said this prior to 9/11, that he ‘dropped the ball’: -

“Whatever has happened to this—someday someone will die—and wall or not—the
public
will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain ‘problems’. Let’s hope the [Justice Department’s]
National Security
Law Unit will
stand
behind their decisions then, especially since the biggest threat to us now, UBL [Osama bin Laden], is getting the most ‘
protection
’.”

Try this.

SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM

AND HOMELAND SECURITY

HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT

COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE

Counterterrorism Intelligence Capabilities and

Performance Prior to 9-11

A Report to the Speaker of the House of

Representatives and the Minority Leader

July 2002

REPORT OF THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM AND HOMELAND SECURITY

HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE ON

COUNTERTERRORISM INTELLIGENCE CAPABILITIES AND PERFORMANCE PRIOR TO 9-11

SUBMITTED BY MR. CHAMBLISS OF GEORGIA, CHAIRMAN

MEMBERS OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM AND HOMELAND SECURITY

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM AND HOMELAND SECURITY

The Honorable J. Dennis Hastert

Speaker ofthe House Of Representatives

United States Congress

Washington, D.C. 20515

Dear Mr. Speaker:

In accordance with your instructions, and those of the Democratic Leader, we hereby submit this report of the Subcommittee on Terrorism and Homeland Security of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

The Subcommittee was established at your direction as a bipartisan 'working group' in January 2001 with a mandate to make recommendations on how to improve America's counterterrorism and homeland security capabilities. It was later given the responsibility to investigate the intelligence deficiencies that existed on September 11, 2001, and its status changed to that of a subcommittee of the Intelligence Committee.

We subsequently set about evaluating the performance of the three key agencies charged with protecting America from the scourge of terrorism, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This report represents our findings on the gaps in the aforementioned agencies counterterrorism capabilities prior to 9-11, and makes specific recommendations on how those gaps should be addressed. Because of your expressed desire to improve Congressional oversight of counterterrorism and homeland security, we have also included our assessment of the current oversight situation in the House on these issues, and have offered options for streamlining and enhancing the quality of oversight.

Additional information on terrorism and homeland security matters has been included to provide you with a useful reference aid.

It has been our honor to serve in this bipartisan capacity in support of the security of all Americans. We will continue to provide you and Leader Gephardt with our assessments, in various forms, of key issues related to the war on terrorism during the remainder of the 107th Congress and for as long as our work remains useful to you.

Respectfully submitted,

Saxby Chambliss

Chairman

Jane Harman

Ranking Democrat

cc: The Honorable Richard A. Gephardt

______________________________________________________________

CIA did not sufficiently penetrate the al-Qa'ida organization before September llth. Because of the perceived reduction in the threat environment in the early to mid 1990s, and the concomitant reduction in resources for basic human intelligence collection, there were fewer operations officers, fewer stations, fewer agents, and fewer intelligence reports produced. This likely gave CIA fewer opportunities for accessing agents useful in the counterterrorism campaign and eroded overall capabilities.

Several management decisions also likely degraded CIA's CT capabilities by, for example, redirecting funds earmarked for core field collection and analysis to headquarters; paying insufficient attention to CIA's unilateral CT capability; relying too much on liaison for CT; and neglecting sufficient investment of foreign language training and exploitation. The dramatic increase in resources for intelligence since 9-11 improves the outlook for CIA's CT capabilities, but only if CIA management acknowledges and deals with the systemic problems outlined in this report.

FBI Intelligence Reform Since September 11

The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States have been labeled

as a major intelligence failure, similar in magnitude to that associated with the

Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.2 In response to criticisms of its role in this failure,

the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has introduced a series of reforms to

transform the bureau from a largely reactive law enforcement agency focused on

criminal investigations into a more mobile, agile, flexible, intelligence-driven3

agency that can prevent acts of terrorism.

FBI Director Robert S. Mueller, III initiated changes that were sparked by

congressional charges that the Intelligence Community (IC),5 including the FBI,

missed opportunities to prevent, or at least, disrupt the September 11 attacks on New

York City and Washington.

http://fpc.state.gov...ation/39334.pdf

Read where it says: " It was later given the responsibility to investigate the intelligence deficiencies that existed on September 11, 2001,..."

Edited by skyeagle409

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Here's a really fascinating report that is a must-read:

http://www.scribd.co...unding-Targeted

WOW! Thanks for that link.

I had read before some details of Black Eagle Gold, Yamashita Gold, etc, but that article puts it all together.

It's no damn wonder the entire US government is covering up this story. :alien:

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WOW! Thanks for that link.

I had read before some details of Black Eagle Gold, Yamashita Gold, etc, but that article puts it all together.

It's no damn wonder the entire US government is covering up this story. :alien:

There is nothing in that link that implicates the United States in the 9/11 attacks. :no:

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