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Harsh86_Patel

[Merged] Gobekli Tepe

327 posts in this topic

Just as the first airplane ever made as not a B767 jumbo jet, I would have to assume this is not the first attempt at consttuction those people ever had so there shold be even earlier evidence of their existence.

But it is remarkable. The pillar with the face-dwon tree frog at the base is so beautiful, and it is all one piece.

It's going to take a long long time to get it all unearthed.

One has to wonder, why, oh why, would they spend so much time covering it over.

And it seems so far that the burried the whole thing with deliberate attempt notto destroy anything

just WOW.

I love that dig site.

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I still say how could hunters and gathers come out of the woods to build taulas so perfect, 10,000 years ago, when other similar taulas buildings around the world are dated much earlier and are still in the rough.

http://www.flickr.co...ras/5527852084/

Edited by docyabut2

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The statue does look like the second figure was a women giving birth, and the top figure was some kind of bird God.

GobT_totem2.jpg

GobT_totem3.jpg

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I hate to go offtopic again but you cant ignore Moderator. (I wish you all luck btw-nice that it was you. But somehow I remeber 2pac line when he say we ain't ready to see a black President...Are we ready to see fringe moderator?...But if one sceptic must be a moderator Im glad that was you since you become like brand on UM.)

I apologize for trolling thread with Illyrians and uploading 1/50 of what I have. I was just out of order there.... I adore Mongols. When you see them in right light then you realize that they were like civilization from another planet. Literaly.That history of humans isnt always history about humans at all. Also they are just cream of the crop of people of steppe. They just let us know wht happens centuries before. Mongols were 500 years after the Huns,who lived 500 years after Xiangnu, who lived 100 years after Scythians....There was not much diffrence in way of life from Xiangnu and Mongol except different armour.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, L. I don't yet know many of the Mods at UM so I can't say what all of their leanings are, but I imagine they're a mix of folks, just like the posters are.

I've been spending much of the evening reading up on my new Moderator duties so I've not been back in the forum till now, but grumpy Abe has a point. More than ever now, I need to be part of the solution, so we'd best keep on track with the relevant topic. I'm distracted easily enough as it is. :lol:

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The statue does look like the second figure was a women giving birth, and the top figure was some kind of bird God.

>>Image Snips<<

To me the bottom figure looks like someone holding a pot, but you're interpretation is as good as mine. The big problem with Göbekli Tepe is, we cannot be sure. We don't even know anything substantial about the people who created and used the site, much less anything about the deities they worshipped and the iconography they employed to that end.

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Just as the first airplane ever made as not a B767 jumbo jet, I would have to assume this is not the first attempt at consttuction those people ever had so there shold be even earlier evidence of their existence.

But it is remarkable. The pillar with the face-dwon tree frog at the base is so beautiful, and it is all one piece.

It's going to take a long long time to get it all unearthed.

One has to wonder, why, oh why, would they spend so much time covering it over.

And it seems so far that the burried the whole thing with deliberate attempt notto destroy anything

just WOW.

I love that dig site.

See the bolded portion. What we see at the site today represents Göbekli Tepe as it was in its very last stage of existence, before it was buried and abandoned. In point of fact, excavations there have revealed levels of activity stretching back more than a millennium before its last stage, but unfortunately very little has yet been found to help us to understand who those people were, why they put so much effort into the site, and what their belief system was.

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Though i don't believe it was a temple,probably a hunters hall.Imagine a bunch of burly and expert hunters roaming the halls and being venerated by the surrounding populace.Halls of Artemis(the venerated hunters) can explain why it was buried.It may have been a structure around which a violent culture was venerated and maybe the people decided to bury it to abolish such a culture.Can creamation explain lack of Human remains?.Or maybe a final purification of the site by removing all human remains before burying it?

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Just as the first airplane ever made as not a B767 jumbo jet, I would have to assume this is not the first attempt at consttuction those people ever had so there shold be even earlier evidence of their existence.

But it is remarkable. The pillar with the face-dwon tree frog at the base is so beautiful, and it is all one piece.

It's going to take a long long time to get it all unearthed.

One has to wonder, why, oh why, would they spend so much time covering it over.

And it seems so far that the burried the whole thing with deliberate attempt notto destroy anything

just WOW.

I love that dig site.

Before the kids started bickering about something off-topic, there was a thread (still active, but hmm..) that might give an explanation:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234064&st=15#entry4462937

And read onwards.

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There had to be a gradual development of this form of architecture and it could not have been a onetime process,saying the site was active for a large amount of time when structures were added sucessively is not enough since the required techniques no matter how simple they seem to us had to evolve to give rise to such structures.Hunter gatheres randomly coming together and building this structure and then learning agriculture to build this structure is the most stupid proposition in my books.Like I said this was probably a cross cultural hunters hall were hunters from different villages etc were venerated and after certain 'unknown events' (could be fights lack of diplomacy etc) this cultural symbol was buried to probably abolish a major cultural practice.

Other theory i have is that these structures can also be offereings to Gods (the palaces for gods) and they were built along with animal reliefs and buried as a home for the Gods.Even in this scenario the people that built these structures had to be relatively well off or settled to perform such a monumental task.And this logic can also explain why there is total absence of signs of residents.

The temple hypothesis is to only to bolster the view that this was a one off structure that marked transition from wild nomadic hunter gatherers to settled down agriculturists and to deny that there could have been an interconnected civilization/culture that was existing since quite a long time inorder to indulge in constructing this structure.Logic says that primary structures built by prehistoric peoples being the first signs of a settled culture/populace would not have survived the test of time as they would have been primitive and frail in nature probably being built out of Mud,clay,wood,foliage etc..Just to maintain the mainstream view of historical chronology of advent of civilization 'Gobekli Tepe' Complex has been ridiculously suggested to mark the transition of nomadic hunter gatherers to a settled agricultural culture and has been called a temple to explain that only relegious motivations could have caused the nomadic hunter gatherers to come together and build this structure and setlle down.

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The statue does look like the second figure was a women giving birth, and the top figure was some kind of bird God.

GobT_totem2.jpg

GobT_totem3.jpg

Yep, a bird god.

Well, a vulture maybe?

They show up all over ancient Anatolia.

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Could Gobekli Tepe have been birthing centers? Eighteenth picture down shows a human baby comming out of a large humanoid figure.

http://www.earthfile...ategory=Science

I am not going to post over 6 threads about the same topic, so I will copy Ove's post here:

Is it so that the sculptures are pregnant goddesses with their hands on the belly as a sign of their pregnancy ?

Is it so that the remains of the dead, where brought to Göbekli Tepe ("Potbelly Hill") to be reborn by the great Anatolian goddesses ?

Did they believe their dead could be reborn by their pregnant women ?

y15lc.jpg

A death/rebirth cult?

But what is the 'vulture' (or bird of prey) doing on top of the totem pole?

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Gobekli Tepe does appear to be a bird cult, could the temples be some kind of baby sacrificing centers to the bird gods?

Edited by docyabut2

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A death/rebirth cult?

But what is the 'vulture' (or bird of prey) doing on top of the totem pole?

I don't see any vulture on top of this totem pole ?

Vultures are part in so-called sky burial

GobT_totem3.jpg

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Good to see you here Ove.

http://www.feedback.nildram.co.uk/richardebbs/essays/angels.htm

post-86645-0-53832800-1349526429_thumb.j

"The image above shows an impression of a room called the 'vulture shrine' in the town of Çatal Hüyük, a fascinating site still being excavated at Anatolia, Turkey. (See also William J. Gilmore-Lehne's Study of Çatal Hüyük). Çatal Hüyük culture dates back to 6,500 BC (a long time ago to be sure) and yet these people were (perhaps) surprisingly sophisticated. The vulture image appears to represent for them a god-form, responsible for removing the head (ie the soul?) of the deceased, as can be seen in the picture above. They may have practised 'sky-burials' (where corpses are left to the birds to eat) or the imagery may have been entirely metaphorical, or both. There is some evidence to suggest that over time as this culture developed the bird image evolved into that of a 'vulture-goddess'. But most importantly one of the murals from Çatal Hüyük apparently shows a human being dressed in a vulture skin.

The ritual coats of present-day Siberian shamans are cut to look like birds: they are cut to a point and tasselled in a way that is suggestive of feathers, and this is quite deliberate."

◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊

post-86645-0-99923600-1349526779_thumb.j post-86645-0-51395700-1349526828_thumb.j

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Good to see you here Ove.

What about this, lightly

The vultures takes the deceased to the sky, and then returns to earth, where the deceased is reborn by the Gobekli Tepe goddesses.

2eznztt.jpg

gobekli_tepe01_03.jpg

Edited by Ove

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ove I don`t think a rebrith, but of hunters and gathers for food. Perhaps more of a baby sacrifice,food to the bird god in return for more abundance of the meat they had to hunt. There are a lot of animals figures on the temple walls that they had hunted.

Edited by docyabut2

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ove I don`t think a rebrith, but of hunters and gathers for food. Perhaps more of a baby sacrifice,food to the bird god in return for more abundance of the meat they had to hunt. There are a lot of animals figures on the temple walls that they had hunted.

This looks like typical "sky burial" not baby sacrifice

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sky_burial

Warning graphic Google images > her

catalhuyuk3.jpg

Edited by Ove

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What about this, lightly

The vultures takes the deceased to the sky, and then returns to earth, where the deceased is reborn by the Gobekli Tepe goddesses.

2eznztt.jpg

gobekli_tepe01_03.jpg

I have posted the second pic in this thread too, Ove, but I added an important line I copied from the original site: "Questionable reconstruction “vulture shrine”

http://www.unexplain...5

Or the site itself: http://www.rugkazbah...879&refnum=1879

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Just found an interesting paper:

CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE GODDESS IN THE ANCIENT MIDDLE EAST (10,000 - 330 BCE)

by JENNETTE ADAIR, Feb. 2008, University of South Africa.

http://uir.unisa.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10500/2227/dissertation.pdf?sequence=1

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What about this, lightly

The vultures takes the deceased to the sky, and then returns to earth, where the deceased is reborn by the Gobekli Tepe goddesses.

2eznztt.jpg

gobekli_tepe01_03.jpg

It's an interesting idea Ove. Obvious, is the significance of vultures in the belief system of the culture.. and the placement of hands on some of the 'statuary'? ... We see no other human features ... only the enigmatic prominently displayed hands. Interesting too, is the life size icon (your avatar) found at Gobekli tepe has no mouth. I don't know what it means, but they didn't leave the mouth out by accident. (note to Abramelin, in the pdf i posted on page 4... there is a timeline on weather patterns of the levant (natufian country) under Paleoclimatic Record).. not sure if the changes include the entire area in question... but i think so.

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On page 4 you posted "woops...sorry" :

http://www.unexplain...45#entry4465446

LOL.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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On page 4 you posted "woops...sorry" :

http://www.unexplain...45#entry4465446

LOL.

.

Woops! sorry :) page 5 (human journey)

* to add this link (hopefully)

http://ancientstuff.maxforum.org/2011/11/04/the-giant-stone-rings-and-sky-burials-of-the-levan/

The Giant Stone Rings and Sky-burials of the Levant

#0, by gdub, 04 November 2011 11:20 AM

Archaeologists may be coming closer to resolving the mystery behind the puzzling megalithic concentric ring and tomb complex often called the "Stonehenge of the Levant".

◊◊◊

"Unlike the mortuary practices of the Jews in the Jerusalem area during the First Century B.C and First Century A.D., when the deceased were allowed to decay away to their bones for a year in rock-carved cavities in burial caves before deposition of the disarticulated bones into ossuaries, there is no evidence indicating how the earlier Chalcolithic peoples of the Rujm el-Hiri area reduced the bodies of the deceased to bones for placement in their ossuaries. He suggests, based on the anthropological record of excarnation or "sky burial" practices of various cultures and civilizations, as well as his interpretation of archaeological finds at various sites, that the flesh of the bodies of their deceased were permitted to be consumed by birds of prey, specifically vultures, which can divest a body of its flesh within hours. He points, for example, to the ancient Zoroastrian dokhmas, or "towers of silence", whereby vultures would eat away the flesh from the bones of the dead placed on raised platforms, at least partly as a means of protecting the soil environment from pollution by decaying bodies. He suggests that the concentric walls of Rujm el-Hiri, which were built at progressively lower heights toward the central tumulus, allowed for vultures to easily view the laid-out bodies from their perches atop the walls. After the vultures did their work, the bones could then be freed of their flesh and disarticulated and placed in ossuaries, many of which were designed like houses or miniature granaries or silos. Scholars theorize that the ossuaries symbolized storage places for new life, just as granaries contained seeds or grain later sewn for new crop production. The practice is interpreted by some to suggest that the ancient Chalcolithic people, at least in this area of the ancient Near East, believed in a resurrection. The ossuaries were seen as "magic boxes" that had the power to resurrect the dead."

◊◊◊

"Arav further supports his argument with a reference to research that suggests that the Chalcolithic people of the Levant originally migrated from the ancient Anatolian region of present-day southern Turkey. Studies of the material culture show remarkable similarities between that of the Chalcolithic Levant and that of southern Turkey, and excarnation is thought to have been practiced in southern Turkey during the Neolithic and Chalcolithic periods. As one example, a "vulture shrine" was discovered at the famous Neolithic site of Catalhoyuk in southeastern Turkey. The shrine featured a mural wall painting of vultures swooping over headless corpses, interpreted as a possible excarnation scene."

◊◊◊

..... this has people migrating east to west... but, it could be that people migrated Earlier from the the Mediterranean area eastward into the , Generally, improving wetter and warmer landscape ? (before it dried up again, coinciding with the end of gobekli)) This place and Gobekli both have constructions with Concentric rings.

.... another similarity.

Edited by lightly

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Just found an interesting paper:

CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE GODDESS IN THE ANCIENT MIDDLE EAST (10,000 - 330 BCE)

by JENNETTE ADAIR, Feb. 2008, University of South Africa.

http://uir.unisa.ac.....pdf?sequence=1

Page 31 "huge vultures are seen pecking at headless human bodies"

Also this that the human flesh is inside the vulture seems important.

image170124011697.jpg

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Woops! sorry :) page 5 (human journey)

* to add this link (hopefully)

http://ancientstuff....s-of-the-levan/

The Giant Stone Rings and Sky-burials of the Levant

#0, by gdub, 04 November 2011 11:20 AM

Archaeologists may be coming closer to resolving the mystery behind the puzzling megalithic concentric ring and tomb complex often called the "Stonehenge of the Levant".

◊◊◊

"Unlike the mortuary practices of the Jews in the Jerusalem area during the First Century B.C and First Century A.D., when the deceased were allowed to decay away to their bones for a year in rock-carved cavities in burial caves before deposition of the disarticulated bones into ossuaries, there is no evidence indicating how the earlier Chalcolithic peoples of the Rujm el-Hiri area reduced the bodies of the deceased to bones for placement in their ossuaries. He suggests, based on the anthropological record of excarnation or "sky burial" practices of various cultures and civilizations, as well as his interpretation of archaeological finds at various sites, that the flesh of the bodies of their deceased were permitted to be consumed by birds of prey, specifically vultures, which can divest a body of its flesh within hours. He points, for example, to the ancient Zoroastrian dokhmas, or "towers of silence", whereby vultures would eat away the flesh from the bones of the dead placed on raised platforms, at least partly as a means of protecting the soil environment from pollution by decaying bodies. He suggests that the concentric walls of Rujm el-Hiri, which were built at progressively lower heights toward the central tumulus, allowed for vultures to easily view the laid-out bodies from their perches atop the walls. After the vultures did their work, the bones could then be freed of their flesh and disarticulated and placed in ossuaries, many of which were designed like houses or miniature granaries or silos. Scholars theorize that the ossuaries symbolized storage places for new life, just as granaries contained seeds or grain later sewn for new crop production. The practice is interpreted by some to suggest that the ancient Chalcolithic people, at least in this area of the ancient Near East, believed in a resurrection. The ossuaries were seen as "magic boxes" that had the power to resurrect the dead."

◊◊◊

"Arav further supports his argument with a reference to research that suggests that the Chalcolithic people of the Levant originally migrated from the ancient Anatolian region of present-day southern Turkey. Studies of the material culture show remarkable similarities between that of the Chalcolithic Levant and that of southern Turkey, and excarnation is thought to have been practiced in southern Turkey during the Neolithic and Chalcolithic periods. As one example, a "vulture shrine" was discovered at the famous Neolithic site of Catalhoyuk in southeastern Turkey. The shrine featured a mural wall painting of vultures swooping over headless corpses, interpreted as a possible excarnation scene."

◊◊◊

..... this has people migrating east to west... but, it could be that people migrated Earlier from the the Mediterranean area eastward into the , Generally, improving wetter and warmer landscape ? (before it dried up again, coinciding with the end of gobekli)) This place and Gobekli both have constructions with Concentric rings.

.... another similarity.

I think you read that wrong: the article says "migrated FROM the ancient Anatolian region of present-day southern Turkey". They must have went south.

What I like is that connection with Zoroastrianism. Like I said a while back, maybe the impossible early date of ca. 6200 BC for the origin of that cult - according to some classical writers - is right after all.

Zoroaster.jpg

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Uspf6eDDvjAC&pg=PA16&dq=Zoroaster+400&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V8EFT5WVMMXW8QPmvbi2Dw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=plutarch&f=false

.

Edited by Abramelin

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