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Harsh86_Patel

[Merged] Gobekli Tepe

327 posts in this topic

There's no reason to have three separate Göbekli Tepe threads running at the same time. I've merged the two oldest into a single thread. I would ask posters not to start a brand-new Göbekli Tepe thread any time in the near future, so long as this one is still active.

Thanks.

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L qoute-With 3 opened Gobekli Tepe thread I dont know where to put this. Maybe someone mention it before.

Balearic slingers become well known in Punic Wars when thy were under Hannibal. Although far as I know they didnt been crucial in one of my favpurite battles at Cannea. Anyway those precise slingers came from Balearic Islands. They ancestors were Talaiots. Talaiotic culture emerged during Iron age although no one know exactly when. As I understand from 2000-1000 BC. Some link them with Sardinian nuraghes. Talaiots built many walls, towers, pyramid like tombs and carved caves to made them look like realy nice place. Anyway, reason why Im telling all this is that on Balearic Island we can find similarites with Gobekli Tepe such as „T“ shape monoliths.

9rqg5l.jpg

Its what I`ve been trying to say ever since I joined this forum. The T stones at Gobeki Tepe are so similar to the ones on the Balearic Islands.

taula_trepuco_lt.jpg

Balearic Islands

The stones at the other sites in Turkey are different.They are not what I would considered T stones.

http://www.thecultur...2003/turkey.htm

http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/turkeynevali.htm

Edited by docyabut2

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looked at the other sites none have those T stones

http://www.ancient-w...key.htm#turkish sites

Yes, I noticed that on Balearic islands we can found caves such as in Turkey, Derinkuyu.

This is from Balearic Islands

Menorca_Troglodita.jpg

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The mystery of Catal Huyuk's Shaman culture has further prompted the belief that the city is actually part of a much greater and older legacy in the Middle East, a shamanistic civilization that originated within the last Ice Age. James Mellart even concluded that the traditions and customs of Catal Huyuk, given the complete maturity and complexity that the culture seemed to exhibit right from the beginning, most likely descended from "an Upper Paleolithic culture, probably Anatolian, of which hardly anything is known." Mellart of course said that during the 1960's, before the discovery of more recent finds now coming to light, including a magnificent set of circular stone temples at Gobekli Tepe, dated to 10,000BC. Coincidentally, Gobekli Tepe's final occupational horizon ends around 7000BC, the same time that Catal Huyuk first arose near Konya not very far away.

Mellart is one of several prehistorians linking the religious symbolism present at Catal Huyuk to that of later Minoan Crete and the earliest forms of Greek religion and myth; although over three thousand years separate the two, Mellart believes that there are enough symbolic parallels to justify a common ancestor. Marija Gimbutas similarly argued in favor of Mellart’s ideas, positing that the Minoan Cretes inherited the traditions of the civilization of Old Europe, the Neolithic Greco-Balkan complex, with which Catal Huyuk played an important part.

Carbon-14 dates show that Knossos, the earliest settlement known on Crete, arose around 6100 BC, a date contemporary with early levels at Catal Huyuk. At base level, evidence of sheep, goat, cattle, and pig, as well as the most "advanced grains of the day", prompts archaeologists studying Knossos to conclude that the founders of Crete arrived by sea with animals and crops already well domesticated. Also, given that the same domesticates occur slightly earlier in western Anatolia, scholars conclude that a departure from west Anatolia to Crete is the most likely course of migration into the Aegean.

If the same unknown “Upper Paleolithic ancestor” even earlier sired the traditions of Catal Huyuk, and later Neolithic Old Europe and Minoan Crete, as Mellart contends, Plato’s vanished Athenians and other prehistoric Greeks mentioned in the philosopher’s Timaeus dialogues might appear to be possible candidates.

http://alternativear...com/catal-huyuk

A bit more about a relation between ancient Crete and ancient Anatolia:

DNA sheds light on Minoans

Crete’s fabled Minoan civilization was built by people from Anatolia, according to a new study by Greek and foreign scientists that disputes an earlier theory that said the Minoans’ forefathers had come from Africa.

The new study – a collaboration by experts in Greece, the USA, Canada, Russia and Turkey – drew its conclusions from the DNA analysis of 193 men from Crete and another 171 from former neolithic colonies in central and northern Greece.

The results show that the country’s neolithic population came to Greece by sea from Anatolia – modern-day Iran, Iraq and Syria – and not from Africa as maintained by US scholar Martin Bernal.

The DNA analysis indicates that the arrival of neolithic man in Greece from Anatolia coincided with the social and cultural upsurge that led to the birth of the Minoan civilization, Constantinos Triantafyllidis of Thessaloniki’s Aristotle University told Kathimerini.

“Until now we only had the archaeological evidence – now we have genetic data too and we can date the DNA,” he said.

Archeological dates for the colonisation of Crete are about 7,000 BC.

In more detail...

(...)

They identified J2a parent haplogroup J2a-M410 (Crete: 25.9%) with the first ancient residents of Crete during the Neolithic (8500 BCE – 4300 BCE) suggesting Crete was founded by a Neolithic population expansion from ancient Turkey/Anatolia. Specifically, the researchers connected the source population of ancient Crete to well known Neolithic sites of ancient Anatolia: Asıklı Höyük, Çatalhöyük, Hacılar, Mersin/Yumuktepe, and Tarsus. Haplogroup J2b-M12 (Crete: 3.1%; Greece: 5.9%) was associated with Neolithic Greece. Haplogroups J2a1h-M319 (8.8%) and J2a1b1-M92 (2.6%) were associated with the Minoan culture linked to a late Neolithic/ Early Bronze Age migration to Crete ca. 3100 BCE from North-Western/Western Anatolia and Syro-Palestine (ancient Canaan, Levant, and pre-Akkadian Anatolia); Aegean prehistorians link the date 3100 BCE to the origins of the Minoan culture on Crete.

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/the-minoans-dna-and-all/

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20857/abstract

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All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth. Just like the evolution of the pyramid, there are these small tiny stone hills built in a form of a pyamid found in Africa that developed into the makings of the great pyramids, so where are were the frist taulas made? The idea had to have come from somewhere.

http://www.spanisharts.com/arquitectura/imagenes/prehistoria/i_taulas.html

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All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth. Just like the evolution of the pyramid, there are these small tiny stone hills built in a form of a pyamid found in Africa that developed into the makings of the great pyramids, so where are were the frist taulas made? The idea had to have come from somewhere.

http://www.spanishar...a/i_taulas.html

In trying to find out where it came from, it is also important to know where it went to.

And the suggestion is Göbekli Tepe (and the others of similar age in Anatolia) >> Çatalhöyük (and others of similar age) >>> Crete/Aegean.

+++

EDIT:

There's a gap of like 7000 years between the Göbekli pillars and those in Menorca (from your link).

.

Edited by Abramelin

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All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth.

The bolded phrase above makes yours a straw-man argument.

You claim that man was "first coming out of caves" at that time in order that you might make what is actually a false argument.

According to a theory proposed by Professor Helmut Ziegert, and reported in today’s ‘Times’our ancient forebears, Homo erectus, constructed the first settlements known to mankind, at a time when such behaviour has popularly been considered too advanced for Acheulian equipped people, who lived 400,000 years ago.[/b]

Helmut Ziegert, of the Institute of Archaeology at Hamburg University, says that the evidence can be found at excavated sites in North and East Africa, in the remains of stone huts and
tools created by upright man for fishing and butchery.

Professor Ziegert claims that the thousands of blades, scrapers, hand axes and
other tools found at sites such as Budrinna, on the shore of the extinct

in southwest Libya, and at Melka Konture, along the River Awash in Ethiopia, provide evidence of organised societies.

Source

and

pmark.gif The first houses were thought to be windbreaks made of animals skins stretched over a frame. There is evidence that Homo Erectus constructed 50-foot-long branch huts with stone slabs or animal skins for floors.

pmark.gif The oldest recognized buildings in the world are twelve 400,000-year-old huts found in Nice, France in 1960. Uncovered by an excavator preparing to build a new house, the oval shelters ranged from 26 feet to 49 feet in length and were between 13 feet and 20 feet wide. They were built of 3-inch in diameter stakes and braced by a ring of stones. Longer poles were set around the perimeter as supports. The huts had hearths and pebble-lined pits and were defined by stake holes.

pmark.gif Ancient humans thought to be Homo erectus that lived 350,000 years ago near present-day Bilzingsleben, East Germany constructed shelters similar to those of Bushmen in southern Africa. Circular bone and stone foundations were discovered for three huts between 9 and 13 feet across. In the middle of on circle, archaeologist found an elephant tusk, which they speculated was a center post.

Source

As you can infer from the above, even Homo Erectus, our evolutionary forebears, constructed shelters. Maybe you can see now why your claim is completely empty.

Harte

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It's all controversial, sure.

But to state that Man was "just coming out of caves" 7,000 years ago is not controversial, it's just ignorant.

Harte

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All fine and good on how it all relates, however still does not explain, how hunters and gathers when frist comming out of the caves, could build a struture that perfect before any other culture on earth. Just like the evolution of the pyramid, there are these small tiny stone hills built in a form of a pyamid found in Africa that developed into the makings of the great pyramids, so where are were the frist taulas made? The idea had to have come from somewhere.

http://www.spanishar...a/i_taulas.html

It's been mentioned several times in the various Göbekli Tepe threads, but I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it. Having three different threads running concurrently on the same topic is too much, which is why I merged a couple of them. No sane person could follow the progress of all three at the same time. Well, I couldn't, and I consider myself sane.

Anyway, what you see at Göbekli Tepe today is only the last stage of development for that site. Building activities had occurred there for well more than a millennium, so it may not be immediately evident but Göbekli Tepe also underwent a long period of evolution in building activities.

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It's been mentioned several times in the various Göbekli Tepe threads, but I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it. Having three different threads running concurrently on the same topic is too much, which is why I merged a couple of them. No sane person could follow the progress of all three at the same time. Well, I couldn't, and I consider myself sane.

Anyway, what you see at Göbekli Tepe today is only the last stage of development for that site. Building activities had occurred there for well more than a millennium, so it may not be immediately evident but Göbekli Tepe also underwent a long period of evolution in building activities.

I actually posted about proof of occupation in one of the mentioned Anatolian settlements that antedated the famous constructions for about a couple of thousand years.

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It's been mentioned several times in the various Göbekli Tepe threads, but I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it. Having three different threads running concurrently on the same topic is too much, which is why I merged a couple of them. No sane person could follow the progress of all three at the same time. Well, I couldn't, and I consider myself sane.

Anyway, what you see at Göbekli Tepe today is only the last stage of development for that site. Building activities had occurred there for well more than a millennium, so it may not be immediately evident but Göbekli Tepe also underwent a long period of evolution in building activities.

i was following along quite easily. :w00t: but .. the merger was a good idea.

Was it something like 3 thousand years that the site had been used? kmt, or anyone... kmt_sesh may be busy doing moderator stuff ;)

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i was following along quite easily. :w00t: but .. the merger was a good idea.

Was it something like 3 thousand years that the site had been used? kmt, or anyone... kmt_sesh may be busy doing moderator stuff ;)

One thousand years, IIRC.

cormac

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i was following along quite easily. :w00t: but .. the merger was a good idea.

You're a sharp cookie, lightly. I'm not surprised. But if you trace back through these pages, you'll notice several complaints by other posters (directly and indirectly). I agreed with them. There's no reason to have three different threads running concurrently on the same topic. I'm not even sure there was a real need for the third and newest thread, given that its subject matter was already being discussed in one (or both) of the original two.

Just my two cents. It's all I can afford.

Was it something like 3 thousand years that the site had been used? kmt, or anyone... kmt_sesh may be busy doing moderator stuff ;)

The 3 thousand years that the Unexplained-Mysteries site had been used? Yes, sometimes it seems like that.

Oh, you mean Göbekli Tepe. See cormac's preceding post.

I just couldn't help myself. :innocent:

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The 3 thousand years that the Unexplained-Mysteries site had been used? Yes, sometimes it seems like that.

Oh, you mean Göbekli Tepe. See cormac's preceding post.

I just couldn't help myself. :innocent:

I am quite sure one of the sites I mentioned in this thread had been occupied from at least 10-11,000 BC, but I don't remember which one it was.

If you had not merged 3 threads, I would only have to wade through 10 pages or something, lol.

Anyway, it must have been in the several pdfs I linked to.

Something to ponder about: people in the middle ages tended to build a cathedral on a spot where there was already some ancient and less 'sophisticated' church: they demolished the old building and then built the magnificent cathedrals on that same spot.

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Again what I saying guys, how could Gobekli Tepe`s architectural design of the T stones be so perfect, even built a thousand years after its foundation, when so many other earlier megalitic strutures arround the world look so pimitive. I believe in the evolution of all things even architectural design.:)

At a number of sites in eastern Turkey, large ceremonial complexes from the 9th millennium BC have been discovered.[6] They belong to the incipient phases of agriculture and animal husbandry. Large circular structures involving carved megalithic orthostats are a typical feature, e.g. at Nevali Cori and Göbekli Tepe. Although these structures are the most ancient megalithic structures known so far, it is not clear that any of the European Megalithic traditions (see below) are actually derived from them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalith

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One thousand years, IIRC.

cormac

Hi cormac.. thanks for the answer. ( you too kmt) .. If the site was in use from about 11000 BC until abandoned in about 7000 BC wouldn't that be about 3 thousand years? i could be entirely wrong.. but isn't that what the datings say? I thought so from what i can piece together from what i've read 'here' and there.

Edited by lightly

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Hi cormac.. thanks for the answer. ( you too kmt) .. If the site was in use from about 11000 BC until abandoned in about 7000 BC wouldn't that be about 3 thousand years? i could be entirely wrong.. but isn't that what the datings say? I thought so from what i can piece together from what i've read 'here' and there.

It was not a pdf, but this is it:

Post 70:

The most recent building phase at Göbekli Tepe (Level II) has been dated both comparatively and absolutely (C14) to ca 8,000 BC, with an earlier primary building phase (Level III) ending as early as 9,000 BC. The age of the earliest occupation cannot yet be determined; the depth of the deposit, however, would suggest a period of several millennia, which signifies that the site had already existed in early Palaeolithic times.

==

Karahan Tepe, a site only discovered in the late 1990s and still awaiting full excavation. This is located near Sogmatar on the Harran Plain, and dates back 11,000 years at least. Already a large number of T-Shaped pillars and stone rows have been uncovered here.

Karahan Tepe lies 60 km east from Urfa in an area called Tektek Daglari. Some 266 in situ pillars (Like the Göbekli pillars...only smaller) cover the field and are visible 50-60 cm above ground level. The rest of the pillars are still covered under the earth.

http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/turkeygobekli.htm

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ah... thanks a lot Abramelin... Your off the hook cormac ;)

Edit to add: kmt_sesh... you said no SANE person could follow the three simultaneous threads.. that's why i said it was easy for me ... (hehe) I'm not all that sharp a cookie :)

Edited by lightly

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A bit more about a relation between ancient Crete and ancient Anatolia:

DNA sheds light on Minoans

Crete’s fabled Minoan civilization was built by people from Anatolia, according to a new study by Greek and foreign scientists that disputes an earlier theory that said the Minoans’ forefathers had come from Africa.

The new study – a collaboration by experts in Greece, the USA, Canada, Russia and Turkey – drew its conclusions from the DNA analysis of 193 men from Crete and another 171 from former neolithic colonies in central and northern Greece.

The results show that the country’s neolithic population came to Greece by sea from Anatolia – modern-day Iran, Iraq and Syria – and not from Africa as maintained by US scholar Martin Bernal.

The DNA analysis indicates that the arrival of neolithic man in Greece from Anatolia coincided with the social and cultural upsurge that led to the birth of the Minoan civilization, Constantinos Triantafyllidis of Thessaloniki’s Aristotle University told Kathimerini.

“Until now we only had the archaeological evidence – now we have genetic data too and we can date the DNA,” he said.

Archeological dates for the colonisation of Crete are about 7,000 BC.

In more detail...

(...)

They identified J2a parent haplogroup J2a-M410 (Crete: 25.9%) with the first ancient residents of Crete during the Neolithic (8500 BCE – 4300 BCE) suggesting Crete was founded by a Neolithic population expansion from ancient Turkey/Anatolia. Specifically, the researchers connected the source population of ancient Crete to well known Neolithic sites of ancient Anatolia: Asıklı Höyük, Çatalhöyük, Hacılar, Mersin/Yumuktepe, and Tarsus. Haplogroup J2b-M12 (Crete: 3.1%; Greece: 5.9%) was associated with Neolithic Greece. Haplogroups J2a1h-M319 (8.8%) and J2a1b1-M92 (2.6%) were associated with the Minoan culture linked to a late Neolithic/ Early Bronze Age migration to Crete ca. 3100 BCE from North-Western/Western Anatolia and Syro-Palestine (ancient Canaan, Levant, and pre-Akkadian Anatolia); Aegean prehistorians link the date 3100 BCE to the origins of the Minoan culture on Crete.

http://mathildasanth...ns-dna-and-all/

http://onlinelibrary....20857/abstract

What dawned upon me after reading that post again (for Puzzler's Snake Cult thread) is that seafaring (in the Med) must have been many thousands of years older.

There was already proof that man's ancestors came to Crete by sea more than 100,000 years ago, but the lower sea levels could have made it much more easy at that time (more islands above sea level, maybe some land bridge between Greece and Crete, or a Greek peninsula reaching very close to Crete).

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The way the hands are placed above the loin cloth seems uncannily similar

Hi Harsh86!

Your observing skills are great. I noticed that too. Allow me:

1.Rapa Nui

2.Gobekli Tepe

3.Olmec

4.Sulawesi

351fsih.jpg

vpc0ol.jpg

2m7tc7m.jpg

9zoxon.jpg

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How come that we have same motive from different periods and different places? Anatolia, Rapa Nui, Sulawesi, Mexico.

Did people traveled from Turkey to Rapa Nui? Did just idea traveled? Did they copied same thing? What?

Many questions.

And what that represents? Awaking? Realizing that they are naked? Awerness?

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Here is all story about Rapa Nui. In short.

Dutch explorer Jacob Roggevee on 5 April 1722 year notice Island. Rapa Nui. Because it was Easter he named it Eastern Island. 3700 km from Chile. On west to Polynesia island Pitcairn have 2000 km. Jacob was surprised by statues from two parts. Ahu and Moai. It was built from 1000 to 1400 year. No one knows for sure when Polynesians came with their catamarans. Historians believe that they came from Gambier Islands 2600 km distant or from Marquesas island 3200 km distant. When James Cook came on Rapa Nui one of his sailors from Bora Bora was able to speak with Rapa nui natives. Their language is 80% same as one spoken on Mangareva-Gambier Islands 2600 km distant. Experiment was done in 1999 when group of researchers in 19 days in Polynesian catamarans sailed from same island to Easter island. Rapa Nui is small island and people there fast change environment. We still didn’t deciphered Rongorongo glyphs. With Polynesians on islands came rats. Rats eat all palm seeds so new big palm didn’t grew. They grew minimum over 15 meters. They cut trees and found themselves in boats traps. They couldn’t built ships and soon they were not able to go fishing. Then sea bird population declined due deforestation-seeds, their egg carrier tournaments, or native diet. They didn’t have pigs or dogs, only chickens as main protein source. Some of Moai were down so that might indicate on tribe wars. Then ancestor cult died and rose Bird man cult raised by warrior caste-Matatoa. They have had egg carrier tournament. After they cut all trees and environmental degradation cannibalism appeared on island. We found it in tunnels under island. When Europeans came they were on their decline. Then smallpox half them and others are used as slaves.(?)

Notice that no one knows when they came. Also similar to Sulawesi megalitghs. Hm. Then Mexico is not that far.

I dont know Harsh but it is mystery that on four places on earth we have four identical designs. To add to mystery is time gap. That doesnt debunks it. It add that mystery become greater.

How? Why?

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