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LucidElement

Why Do Great Nations Fall?

69 posts in this topic

We deserve what we get

Don't know, but surely in any democracy we get what we deserve.

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It is really very simple...

you allow the creation of a ruling elite - in Democracies it is the 2 party system, and the belief that certain families are "better" than others in ruling a country. This is true throughout time.

Eventually, the common people realise this and then the door opens to revolution because most people prefer to have a real say in their destiny. Unfortunately, revolution often leads to despotism (USSR is an example, as is Uganda and Iran).

History is repeating itself in our own lifetime, both in the USA and the UK where 2 parties control everything that we do, we are all too stupid to vote for a 3rd alternative because the 2 Party system scares us into believing that a vote for a 3rd party will give victory to one of the 2 main parties....

We deserve what we get

Yes.

It's we the people voting for these guys. It's we the people not holding anyone responsible.

Come November and the ruling elite will get an overwhelming 95% of the vote. They'll cut taxes, lower standards across the board and make our mockery of an educational system just a little bit worse.

It's we the people at fault and it's we the people afraid of change because most of us are beholden to the status quo. And it's we the people who will be replaced by other people when the system eventually collapses.

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I Don't Think People And Their Mentalities Were Much Different in The Past .. Actually I Think That In Most Respects People Have Not Changed At All .. It Is Only A Matter Of Time When Our "Great Nation" Will Fall ..

Yes it depends what number of genereation of that "great nation are we". But after one fell soon other took place. Other dynasties, other regime, new order. And then things start all over from beging.

If one empire/state/nation have that uninterupted line its China. (And Im aware of Manchu and Mongol rule)

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We see everything that supports what we believe and nothing else.

Because we have to bring food on tables. But give human a time you ll see how his creativity and imagination bring beautifull scientific ideas, art, music, philosophic thoughts, novel and similar.

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@Dragonwind

Arabs caliphates fell but they didnt changed. I know many countries/empires that ruled diffrent ethnics diffrent racial and still had no problems.

Who do you think that change USA most? Latinos? African Americans?

Edited by the L

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I cant remember does anyone mention war as cause?

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@Dragonwind

Arabs caliphates fell but they didnt changed. I know many countries/empires that ruled diffrent ethnics diffrent racial and still had no problems.

Who do you think that change USA most? Latinos? African Americans?

.. i'd like to answer that too L , in a way. Lately, the most drastic change to the "USA" was the European , and then everybody else, invasion which nearly eradicated the Amerindians . I sort of consider the Amerindians as great fallen nations.

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I Don't Think People And Their Mentalities Were Much Different in The Past .. Actually I Think That In Most Respects People Have Not Changed At All .. It Is Only A Matter Of Time When Our "Great Nation" Will Fall ..

people and their mentalities were much different in the past IMO. People were more focused as a whole, thats why great nations were built. Communicating amongst each other, agreeing on many things, working together to rise and become powerful. Today, everyone seems to be doing there own thing, and more likely then not, always taking short cuts and doing it the quickest way. I definitely have to disagree Nin.

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So many of you think it has to do with Social Order and not lack of communication amongst individuals, primarily not having everyone work together to build a stronger empire, government, etc. For example, when hurricane katrina struk New Orelans, many people went crazy and started looting houses, killings happend everyone seemed to be against each other instead of working together to fix the greater problem. On the other hand, when the hurricane hit japan, they interviewed a couple of Japanese, and they said "why would anyone want to harm each other and not work together, when in deed the population of Japan is working together to fix the solution" Right there shows a powerful communication and understanding. I feel like the USA is splitting and lack of communication is is destroying the "UNITED" title of our great country. Greed I agree with, that definetly posses a problem, but I am still eager to see if any of you think communication is an issue?

Yet here in Florida where hurricanes are almost a yearly occurance, usually several times a year, most people pull together. Two cat 3 hurricanes (the same strenght as Katrina), hit Pensacola in less than a year. Folks from all over pitched in and helped out. It all depends on the people. I remember a lot of people from my home town in Alabama heading down to Miami after Andrew to lend them a hand in salvaging and/or rebuilding.

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Here is an interesting thought I just had. Back in the day, ancient egypt, rome, incans, what not.. Do you think if people have to pull together to build a structure we could all do it? Say a structure as vast as the pyramids. Do you think it would be as easy to gather people and convince them to build it. Obviously, times have changed and people would do it for money. But if it came down to it, and we needed a structure for survival, would people do it or would they be slackers and look the other way. Granted, ancient egyptians (i guess u can think they were slaves, and or did not know any better) but im just asking do you think it would be as easy to gather a nation as a whole to build a vast structure if need be?

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This video sums up how I feel about this topic, because it makes the most logical sense:

[media=]

[/media]

Summarized, every civilization collapses the same way: "They fail because of their success. New generations are born into a level of high prosperity which makes them (or give them the ability) to be lazy and breeds sense of entitlement. In the prosperous society people work hard and the quality of life improves, everyday things get better rapidly. Then what happens is the propsperity curve becomes asymptotic. Things get better by smaller and smaller proportions. This new generation is not used to the working hard mentality, so they lack the perspective of their forefathers and ingratitude sets in." (hate for capitalizm, income inequality, etc.)

I look at that video and see a striking similarity to this: http://tvblogs.natio...-egypt-decline/

I really hope those who care about the fall of our economy take this history in consideration. I find it nearly identitcal, and if so it only means things will get worse.

Edited by Pssst
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to the above posted video...very true. :yes:

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Nations are like people. None live forever.

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This video sums up how I feel about this topic, because it makes the most logical sense:

[media=]

[/media]

Summarized, every civilization collapses the same way: "They fail because of their success. New generations are born into a level of high prosperity which makes them (or give them the ability) to be lazy and breeds sense of entitlement. In the prosperous society people work hard and the quality of life improves, everyday things get better rapidly. Then what happens is the propsperity curve becomes asymptotic. Things get better by smaller and smaller proportions. This new generation is not used to the working hard mentality, so they lack the perspective of their forefathers and ingratitude sets in." (hate for capitalizm, income inequality, etc.)

I look at that video and see a striking similarity to this: http://tvblogs.natio...-egypt-decline/

I really hope those who care about the fall of our economy take this history in consideration. I find it nearly identitcal, and if so it only means things will get worse.

Actually this is very old theory.

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Actually this is very old theory.

Do you find it to be true? Why or why not? :)

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Do you find it to be true? Why or why not? :)

My earlier posts 17 and 38 indicates that I found it true.

Yes. Social alienation from the core of society is main reason of collapse of any civilization. Followed by others reason. Its allways a combination of reasons. But I found social turmoil,greed and luxury as one pattern in all collapses.

Beside I adore philosopher/historian who first grasp that idea.

Btw, welcome to UM.

You are now ofically thrid crow/raven. Few more and you will have a flock. See member Abramelin and member who posted after you in this thread.

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Well America is starting to fall.in 25 years from now America will be like a thrid world country

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The acceptance of homosexuality is one sign of decline throughout history.

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The acceptance of homosexuality is one sign of decline throughout history.

Could you developed that? Give me examples?

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