How do skeptics explain Qi Gong

[jsowersby]

I agree.

I've also seen things that deserve further 'scientific' investigation.

Most of the stuff that gets discussed around here I wouldn't waste a penny on investigating, but the various forms of 'chi medicine' ARE really interesting. I'd like to see them properly investigated and subjected to scientific analysis.

She was awesome! Very pretty too!

[jsowersby]

Hmmm... I wonder, how believers would explain "master's" failure:

Reality always wins (and pretty quickly) against fantasies.

I've seen that video. I believe the term is called "group think" when a group of people believe something that they are for what ever reasons afraid to challenge. The video doesn't disprove the existence of qi, only that the man in the video can't take a punch and his students are influenced by the power suggestion.

[jsowersby]

*snip*

Since you've repeatedly ignored the trials and requirements drugs must pass, there is no use continuing this discussion with someone who blames drugs for human error.

I'll give you some info you don't seem to know. The FDA is in charge of approving use of new drugs. Members of FDA own stock in the same pharmaceutical companies that are submitting drugs for approval. These "scientific" trials you're talking about come second to profits. These drugs are tested on lab animals and then people to see if they are "safe" meaning it doesn't kill them outright. Long term studies on drug safety are conducted by prescribing drugs to consumers. When people DIE from complications that the medications are causing it is NOT HUMAN ERROR. The error that is happening is that these drugs cure NOTHING!!!! They are meant to be prescribed for the rest of a person's life in order to maximize profit for the drug company, for members of he FDA, for prescribers, and at the patient's expense.

[bmk1245]

I watched my mother die of breast cancer. She fought it for years. She went thru the radiation and chemo over and over. On top of a billion meds she took daily that made her even more sick-- I asked her before she passed what would she do different if she could- she said she would not have subjected her self to the rad/chemo but would have set back and smoked MJ to get thru it all.

The thing is she didnt die from the cancer itself, she died from the side effects from the chemo and rad. -

When you are subjecting yourself to the poison, really? and expect to be "cured." How does that work.

It's true. There is too much money to be lost and basically this country would shut down if there were a cure. I believe whole heartedly that there is and the GUBMENT knows this. It's pathetic.

We all sorry for your loss... Thats terrible to loose loved ones...( two family members of mine suffered it.) But chemo (that nasty stuff ) brought life to the third relative (breast cancer). She still in recover, and feels fine (as you can do it tell by her description), and she looks pretty fine (as far as I can tell you)...

[bmk1245]

I've seen that video. I believe the term is called "group think" when a group of people believe something that they are for what ever reasons afraid to challenge. The video doesn't disprove the existence of qi, only that the man in the video can't take a punch and his students are influenced by the power suggestion.

Seriously? Blink of an eye, and master down? OK, how many more qi/chi/kiai/whatever masters have to be punched-down until they realize "OOps, I'm screwed... Maybe I'll have to look for work elsewhere"?

[White Crane Feather]

We all sorry for your loss... Thats terrible to loose loved ones...( two family members of mine suffered it.) But chemo (that nasty stuff ) brought life to the third relative (breast cancer). She still in recover, and feels fine (as you can do it tell by her description), and she looks pretty fine (as far as I can tell you)...

But what if survival rates were better without the side effects?

Edited August 20, 2012 by Seeker79

[The Mule]

There are numerous videos showing people using qi. I myself have learned to use it to heal minor aches and pains. I hear from skeptics that it is not real or hoaxed somehow. The thermal image in this video is undeniable.

[media=]

Undeniable? Dude....my cousin works in Hollywood. Special effects. On movies we've all seen. He's been able to make videos like yours since he was 16. Back in the freakin 60s.

[bmk1245]

Poor guy. Spent to many years with his students acting that crap out, he actually believed it. You could tell its been a long time since he's been hit.... Mabey never.

Waiiiit a sec... You don't believe in powerful chi? What about flow? From somewhere to somewhere?

[bmk1245]

But what if survival rates were better without the side effects?

Let me guess... Child mortality beyond your guess? How much chances of survival you would have in, say, 18th century? How many of UM'ers would be posting here without the help of modern medicine, huh? Can you look into statistics, say, of India 50 years ago, and nowadays? Where there those magic cures back then? What about China? What was death rate 50 years ago, and what nowodays?

Main question remains - what the chances of you remaining alive now, if not modern medicine?

[White Crane Feather]

Let me guess... Child mortality beyond your guess? How much chances of survival you would have in, say, 18th century? How many of UM'ers would be posting here without the help of modern medicine, huh? Can you look into statistics, say, of India 50 years ago, and nowadays? Where there those magic cures back then? What about China? What was death rate 50 years ago, and what nowodays?

Main question remains - what the chances of you remaining alive now, if not modern medicine?

Modern medacine has nothing to do with modern control and corruption. What is happening is holding modern medicine back in favour of profits and survival of trillion dollar institutions that are obsolete. Treating medicine like the an iPad is simply unethical.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Seeker79

[Timothy]

I live in Melbourne Australia. I'm happy to take my full 1080p 50 FPS video camera and record someone trying to knock me out with 'Qi' or whatever it's called.

Anyone game?

[bmk1245]

Modern medacine has nothing to do with modern control and corruption. [...]

Its seen everywhere, not only in medicine.

[...] What is happening is holding modern medicine back in favour of profits and survival of trillion dollar institutions that are obsolete. Treating medicine like the an iPad is simply unethical.

Food for thought: what are the profits of those who are producing and selling remedies (homeopathic, for example) that are doing squat? Or charging parents for training their kids of imaginary powers (chi/qi/whatever crap), huh? Is that ethical?

[bmk1245]

I live in Melbourne Australia. I'm happy to take my full 1080p 50 FPS video camera and record someone trying to knock me out with 'Qi' or whatever it's called.

Anyone game?

I would love to see that... How reality beats imagination one more time.

[White Crane Feather]

Its seen everywhere, not only in medicine.

Food for thought: what are the profits of those who are producing and selling remedies (homeopathic, for example) that are doing squat? Or charging parents for training their kids of imaginary powers (chi/qi/whatever crap), huh? Is that ethical?

So...

No it's not...

[Timothy]

I would love to see that... How reality beats imagination one more time.

Doesn't look like anyone wants to take me up on the offer... Shame, I'd love to believe.

[tyrant lizard]

I live in Melbourne Australia. I'm happy to take my full 1080p 50 FPS video camera and record someone trying to knock me out with 'Qi' or whatever it's called.

Anyone game?

Qi is also used by martial artists to smash bricks and blocks of wood with their hands. It's used as a method of increasing striking power - largely placebo in my opinion - but it undoubtably works.

There was a guy called Masutatsu Oyama who used to kill charging bulls with one punch to the skull using this technique.

[Timothy]

Qi is also used by martial artists to smash bricks and blocks of wood with their hands. It's used as a method of increasing striking power - largely placebo in my opinion - but it undoubtably works.

There was a guy called Masutatsu Oyama who used to kill charging bulls with one punch to the skull using this technique.

Lol I'm talking the no-contact 'energy ball' knock outs. Is 'Qi' not that?

I don't want that guy killing me. Knowing how to effectively kill a bull or smash bricks is a different story and nothing paranormal.

[White Crane Feather]

Qi is also used by martial artists to smash bricks and blocks of wood with their hands. It's used as a method of increasing striking power - largely placebo in my opinion - but it undoubtably works.

There was a guy called Masutatsu Oyama who used to kill charging bulls with one punch to the skull using this technique.

You don't need qi to break. I could teach you to break 8 cinder caps at once in 10 minutes.

[bmk1245]

[...]No it's not...

At least we agree on something.

[White Crane Feather]

At least we agree on something.

I don't think we disagree on as much as you think. I think you jumped the gun a bit what you think I believe. You seem to agree that corruption and greed exist in medicine, you seem to agree that these demonstrations of qi are merely physics, biology, and psychology. You seem to think I have something against modern medicine, I don't.... I have something against eronious medicine, and the conflict of interests between money and healing. Big difference.

[tyrant lizard]

You don't need qi to break. I could teach you to break 8 cinder caps at once in 10 minutes.

I was just pointing out that not all qi is in the form of energy outside of the body. Kiai - as you probably know - is the unity of mind and body. I think it's just an intense way of focusing your mind, body and technique.

[tyrant lizard]

This video is worth watching. I think its pretty catagoric that this version of chi energy has been debunked. I met Leon Jay (son of the famous Wally Jay)about a year ago and he has since disassosiated himself from George Dillman. My Sensei insists Dillman uses an mixture of showmanship and freakish strength to achieve his illusion of chi

[Simbi Laveau]

Qi has been,,DEBUNKED .....

*rolling laughing*

Really !?

Do the billion + Asians who use it in day to day life,know ?

*crying laughing*

Did Bruce lee,or morihai ueshiba know,when they hurled people across rooms ?

Some lame guy,who obviously hasn't developed it at all,is not a debunking .

I dare you to go into an aikido dojo,walk up to a first degree black belt,and tell him his qi isn't real.

Let me know how you end up .

Oh my god ...

For interest parties only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mphZWXxyNfs

Naysayers need not comment,at all .

Edited August 21, 2012 by Simbi Laveau

[bmk1245]

I don't think we disagree on as much as you think. I think you jumped the gun a bit what you think I believe. You seem to agree that corruption and greed exist in medicine, [...]

Yeah, but not to the extent you think: I'm free to choose brand (same stuff, different manufacturer) by myself, period.

[...] you seem to agree that these demonstrations of qi are merely physics, biology, and psychology[...]

Yeap, and it has nothing to do with qi/chi/whatever crap.

[...] You seem to think I have something against modern medicine, I don't....[...]

Ok, granted, you aren't against modern medicine.

[...] I have something against eronious medicine, and the conflict of interests between money and healing. Big difference.

People in medicine/medicine business are the same folks as you and me, with their virtues and limitations. Some are greedy, some are benevolent.

[bmk1245]

Qi has been,,DEBUNKED .....

*rolling laughing*

Really !?

Do the billion + Asians who use it in day to day life,know ?

*crying laughing*

Did Bruce lee,or morihai ueshiba know,when they hurled people across rooms ?

Some lame guy,who obviously hasn't developed it at all,is not a debunking .

I dare you to go into an aikido dojo,walk up to a first degree black belt,and tell him his qi isn't real.

Let me know how you end up .

Oh my god ...

For interest parties only.

*snip crap*

Naysayers need not comment,at all .

*sigh*.What a load of crap... Food for gullibles...

Give me a real sword, and master's pants will change color into brown, and no qi nor chi nor whatever crap would help him.

BTW, have you any idea what aikido is, huh?

BBTW, have you seen how qi/chi/whatever crap "master" got beaten (very quickly) by the guy who doesn't give a damn about waving hands?