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Avatar Samantha Ai

Would you accept the Mark of the Beast?

MOTB Hypothetical Scenario #4   91 members have voted

  1. 1. If the Antichrist were real would you:

    • Hide in the woods and survive by hunting white fighting back and resisting until the end?
      39
    • Stay in the city and get persecuted for not accepting the mark?
      9
    • Accept the mark and become a follower of the Antichrist?
      18
    • Other?
      25

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187 posts in this topic

I would postulate that we have already taken the Mark of the Beast. Consider this: First, You all have a number do you not? In the USA we have a Social Security number. You cannot really buy or sell anything without it. (of course unless you are an illegal alien) Second, The Mark in Revelations was either in your forehead or your hand. So if you simply 'remember' your number (who doesn't) or have a card in your hand with the number on the card, well, there you go. Also, it is the 'number of a man' which is to say it was a Personal Number. And most importantly it says that The Whole World worshipped after the beast...and everyone who didn't was imprisoned or killed.

And also, Jesus said, that in the last days, it would be as in the days of Noah before the flood, marrying and giving in marriage...in other words, carrying on as normal...and then the flood was upon them.

We are already there. We already have the number and oh, before I forget...if you don't think you DO have the MOTB or the Number of his name...uh...try giving your number back to the Government and see what happens....

Give me a break... people still honestly believe all this Revelation crap? And try to apply it to modern day, no less? Oy...

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Yes, Arbitran. No need to be grumpy.

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Give me a break... people still honestly believe all this Revelation crap? And try to apply it to modern day, no less? Oy...

Did I say I believe it? give yourself a break....grow up!

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I would not accept any mark.

I'm already everything I wanted to be and more.

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Did I say I believe it? give yourself a break....grow up!

You implied your belief in it. My apologies if this should happen to be an instance of Poe's Law, on the other hand.

Yes, Arbitran. No need to be grumpy.

When was I grumpy?

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Wait, so you say you have "found" your proof, but at the same time you "can't prove it yet"? A tad... paradoxical, to say the least...

No. I can't prove it to you, assuming that you have heard the evidence and still not believed. What is enough for me isn't enough for you.

Edited by Bluefinger

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You implied your belief in it. My apologies if this should happen to be an instance of Poe's Law, on the other hand.

I have studied Revelations...so...unlike many...I actually know what is in it. What I find amazing is that practically all Christians say that they would not take the Mark of the Beast or worship after the Beast. And yet, Revelations says that The Whole World worshipped after the beast. A lot of Christians aren't worried about it because in their minds they are going to be 'raptured' or 'taken away to heaven' before things get that bad. I find that notion proposterous. Jesus was crucified, all of the Apostles met similar violent deaths and yet...the church...believes that God would spare them the 'tribulation'. Meanwhile, we already have a number we can't give back. Go to any Baptist Church and you will find Giant Television screens. I used to go to a Baptist Church...and what I found apalling was that they would play scenes from the movie The Passion as though that was really Jesus Christ up on that very large screen.

....I can see where you would infer a belief from my posts...the OP asked in the beginning for us to suppose it is real. There are some very interesting goings' on in Revelation that certainly do parallel today's Global reality. Of course there is Armageddon...which has the nations of the world surrounding Jerusalem for the Great Battle to end all battles, which involves China with an army of hundreds of millions. One world government. Total loss of Freedoms. One should keep in mind though the context of the author. Lived and watched his Lord die in....the Empire of Rome.

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No. I can't prove it to you, assuming that you have heard the evidence and still not believed. What is enough for me isn't enough for you.

I haven't heard any valid evidence whatsoever. If that's what you're referring to as evidence, then of course it would be foolish for anyone to accept it (as of course I think it is). What evidence has convinced you, precisely?

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I have studied Revelations...so...unlike many...I actually know what is in it. What I find amazing is that practically all Christians say that they would not take the Mark of the Beast or worship after the Beast. And yet, Revelations says that The Whole World worshipped after the beast. A lot of Christians aren't worried about it because in their minds they are going to be 'raptured' or 'taken away to heaven' before things get that bad. I find that notion proposterous. Jesus was crucified, all of the Apostles met similar violent deaths and yet...the church...believes that God would spare them the 'tribulation'. Meanwhile, we already have a number we can't give back. Go to any Baptist Church and you will find Giant Television screens. I used to go to a Baptist Church...and what I found apalling was that they would play scenes from the movie The Passion as though that was really Jesus Christ up on that very large screen.

....I can see where you would infer a belief from my posts...the OP asked in the beginning for us to suppose it is real. There are some very interesting goings' on in Revelation that certainly do parallel today's Global reality. Of course there is Armageddon...which has the nations of the world surrounding Jerusalem for the Great Battle to end all battles, which involves China with an army of hundreds of millions. One world government. Total loss of Freedoms. One should keep in mind though the context of the author. Lived and watched his Lord die in....the Empire of Rome.

Well, to be fair, we have no idea who the author of Revelation was. And there isn't any evidence to link the mark of the beast with television screens, or frankly anything we have today; this is partly due to the fact that the text is so delightfully cryptic as to what the "mark" was actually supposed to be in the first place. Either way, I largely agree with you though. In the Greek it certainly seems clear to me that all will accept the mark of the beast, Christians included. Either way, I don't believe in any of it, and seemingly you don't either (sorry, still a bit hard to tell). In any case, that's about the end of that I suppose.

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Well, to be fair, we have no idea who the author of Revelation was. And there isn't any evidence to link the mark of the beast with television screens, or frankly anything we have today; this is partly due to the fact that the text is so delightfully cryptic as to what the "mark" was actually supposed to be in the first place. Either way, I largely agree with you though. In the Greek it certainly seems clear to me that all will accept the mark of the beast, Christians included. Either way, I don't believe in any of it, and seemingly you don't either (sorry, still a bit hard to tell). In any case, that's about the end of that I suppose.

Not quite the end...Revelations says... And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed...That is where I get Television Imagery. Christians seem to think there is this guy that everyone worships...I don't think so...I think the author...whoever it was...is saying that the world worships after itself. Who knows? I personally don't care. I don't believe in prophesies. I believe in logic. Religion...anyone's religion...is illogical. But...the fact that most of the world believes in a Deity does make the whole concept of 'creating one's own reality' a frightening prospect...does it not?

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I haven't heard any valid evidence whatsoever. If that's what you're referring to as evidence, then of course it would be foolish for anyone to accept it (as of course I think it is). What evidence has convinced you, precisely?

Foolishness would be to write off what you don't fully understand simply because its too cryptic to be precise. But then again, Peter answered for that, when speaking about how difficult it was to understand Paul's writing, stating that it was a sort of barrier to those who like to distort the Chrisian religion. By Revelations emphasis on the punishment of those who attempted to add or take away from the text, its evident that it was common practice at that time, as was even shown in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Isaac Newton seemed convinced that Revelation was not written during the reign of Domitian, but during the reign of Nero (which has convinced me to change my stance on Revelation's historical background as well.)

Isaac Newton then pointed out that the Epistles that mentioned eschatology were actually interpretations of the book of Revelations by the Apostles as also shown by the fact that many other Apocalypses (false) followed it.

If that is the case, which I now believe it is, then it was likely written while the Church was dispersed (as evident in 1 Peter, where Peter calls Rome 'Babylon') and shortly before Jerusalem's destruction.

It also defends why the Gospel of John never included the Olivet Discourse, which are evident interpretations of Revelations seals, as seen in Luke 21, Matthew 24, an Mark 13.

It tells a story other than one Eusebius told, indicating his own personal bias (thinking that the Roman Emperor's embrace of Christianity was the actual fulfillment of Christ's reign on earth.)

I believe, therefore, that Revelation has happened exactly with history and that we have been in the Great Tribulation since Nero first persecuted the Christians and warred against the Jews. When the sixth seal is opened, that tribulation will be coming to a close.

Edited by Bluefinger

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Not quite the end...Revelations says... And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed...That is where I get Television Imagery.

I've believed what 2 Thess. 2 said about it (obviously an interpretation Rev. 13's second beast and its demise in Rev. 19.) The lawless one, will exalt himself above all that is called God and will reveal himself in God's temple, the Church, as God.

Toward the end of the 12th century, the pope (Innocent III) began calling himself the vicar of Christ, standing as a representative of Christ (authoritatively) to rule while Christ is in heaven. This assertion was practiced when an opposing king begged outside the pope's window in the cold, with no shoes on. The pope, back then, believed that he had the authority to crown or depose kings. This would, in a sense, make him a king of kings, a title rightfully claimed by Jesus.

This pope then, with the miraculous help of St. Dominic and St. Francis, convinced many in the Holy Roman Empire that the Roman Church was their only hope of salvation. When it became evident that the Cathars were still growing, the Office of The Inquisition was instituted to find non-Catholics and judge them according to Canon Law. Those who refused were put to death. Those who converted were given back their property (sometimes) and kept a close eye on.

The mark of the beast is evidently the exercise of state religion under impulse of persecution.

Christians seem to think there is this guy that everyone worships...I don't think so...I think the author...whoever it was...is saying that the world worships after itself. Who knows? I personally don't care. I don't believe in prophesies. I believe in logic. Religion...anyone's religion...is illogical. But...the fact that most of the world believes in a Deity does make the whole concept of 'creating one's own reality' a frightening prospect...does it not?

Perhaps it isn't one man, but one man's title. And the prophecy of St. Malachy shows that Rome will be destroyed in the end, and Jesus will judge. Paired with Revelation 14, 16, 17, 18, and 19, Jesus will destroy the authority of beast, the false prophet, and the dragon. In other words, all kingdoms will be put under Christ's authority.

Early Christians evidently believed this literally, as do I.

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Early Christians evidently believed this literally, as do I.

Early Christians believed what Peter and the boys told them. You believe Peter and boys...I do not. I think that Peter and the boys, knocked unconcious the guards at the tomb and stole the body of Jesus. It was embalmed and hidden here and there amongst them until the Church was strong enough to protect that secret. I believe that the real reason for the Knights Templar to exist was to protect that secret. I believe that within the walls of the vatican lies the body of christ. That doesn't make it true because I believe it...but it makes a hell of a lot more sense.

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Foolishness would be to write off what you don't fully understand simply because its too cryptic to be precise.

Equally as foolish is to believe you know what it means when nobody has any idea what was being said, and more importantly, what time period it was being said about.

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Equally as foolish is to believe you know what it means when nobody has any idea what was being said, and more importantly, what time period it was being said about.

True. Which is why I rely on the Apostles' interpretation.

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True. Which is why I rely on the Apostles' interpretation.

And that is as reliable as my interpretation or Joe Blow's interpretation.

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And that is as reliable as my interpretation or Joe Blow's interpretation.

You have a better source?

There is a great difference between the skeptic and the militant. Your hostility toward this discussion reveals your stance on this issue. (Should I still treat you as a skeptic when you truly are not?)

Edited by Bluefinger

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You have a better source?

Much better.

There is a great difference between the skeptic and the militant. Your hostility toward this discussion reveals your stance on this issue. (Should I still treat you as a skeptic when you truly are not?)

I don't care how you treat me. I'm surprised you'd even think that matters to me.

I don't even know what you are trying to say by calling me a "militant" but calling me a skeptic is far of the mark as well. There is nothing to be gotten from Revelations except a bunch of wild theories and ridiculous self-serving interpretations of various sorts.

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Much better.

I don't care how you treat me. I'm surprised you'd even think that matters to me.

I don't even know what you are trying to say by calling me a "militant" but calling me a skeptic is far of the mark as well. There is nothing to be gotten from Revelations except a bunch of wild theories and ridiculous self-serving interpretations of various sorts.

How would you know if you haven't read it? Or...have you?

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How would you know if you haven't read it? Or...have you?

I think it's a safe bet that all of us here have read the Book of Revelation. I could be wrong, and I can't speak for everyone, but anyway...

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I think it's a safe bet that all of us here have read the Book of Revelation. I could be wrong, and I can't speak for everyone, but anyway...

Pfff...I wouldn't make that bet... :blink: I mean, seriously, if someone said that there is nothing to be gotten from Moby Dick except a bunch of stupid stories and ridiculous tales of fishermen and whale killers...would you make the same bet that they had actually read Moby Dick? Call me Ishamel but...I don't think so.

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Pfff...I wouldn't make that bet... :blink: I mean, seriously, if someone said that there is nothing to be gotten from Moby Dick except a bunch of stupid stories and ridiculous tales of fishermen and whale killers...would you make the same bet that they had actually read Moby Dick? Call me Ishamel but...I don't think so.

A slightly... laboured analogy, wouldn't you say? I mean... I think that most of the people here have read Revelation. Perhaps not, but I have seen a general understanding by the people here of its contents. Either way... not that important.

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A slightly... laboured analogy, wouldn't you say? I mean... I think that most of the people here have read Revelation. Perhaps not, but I have seen a general understanding by the people here of its contents. Either way... not that important.

K

Back to the topic...if there still is one...

...Here is some injected Reality into the thread which I find very interesting...This isn't skeptical mish-mash...this is fact: Many Jews are waiting for the Messiah. Many Christians are waiting for the Messiah...second coming. And many Muslims are waiting for the Messiah...the Mahdi. Everyone is waiting for the Messiah it seems to come and save the world from itself. The world therefore is ripe for some sort of polarizing figure that can bring everyone together, willing or not...and create 'peace' in a world of bloodshed and doom. Whether Revelations is true or not becomes irrelevant because it very well may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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How would you know if you haven't read it? Or...have you?

If you are talking about Revelation, yes I have read it.

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Pfff...I wouldn't make that bet... :blink: I mean, seriously, if someone said that there is nothing to be gotten from Moby Dick except a bunch of stupid stories and ridiculous tales of fishermen and whale killers...would you make the same bet that they had actually read Moby Dick? Call me Ishamel but...I don't think so.

So you are saying one should get the same from Revelation that they get from any great work of fiction?

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