Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5
Avatar Samantha Ai

Would you accept the Mark of the Beast?

MOTB Hypothetical Scenario #4   91 members have voted

  1. 1. If the Antichrist were real would you:

    • Hide in the woods and survive by hunting white fighting back and resisting until the end?
      39
    • Stay in the city and get persecuted for not accepting the mark?
      9
    • Accept the mark and become a follower of the Antichrist?
      18
    • Other?
      25

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

187 posts in this topic

Definitely a valid point. I believe that is highly important to the discussion though. Innocent III laid the finishing touches on what was supposedly the end of the Investiture Controversy (where the Church of Rome, after the embarrassing rule of harlots, sought to wrestle its property and priests from the hands of the government) by establishing the canon law and using the Donation of Constantine (forgery?) to assert his authority.

So, 'the liberty of the Church' was a continuing controversy from two centuries ago. The pope, however, had it in mind to rule the empire. The kings knew that two centuries ago when they saw the increasing influence that the bishop of Rome had among the people. Innocent III secured the financial backing of the Roman Church, the main financial income for the Holy Roman Empire, pretty much allowing him to do whatever he wanted. Fast-forward a century, a Boniface VIII is banking on one of the largest religious scam - The Roman Jubilee. The papacy was rolling in dough after that. He would proclaim through his Bull of 1302, Unam Sanctam, it is "absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman pontiff." Seriously, after making that much money, can you imagine if everyone tithed to the Roman Church?

Accidentally, the kings of France and England weren't jiving with it and gave him the boot, starting the 'Babylonian Captivity of the Church,' where the Church was moved to Avignon, France for a good 70 years or so. During that time Europe would be politically and socially transformed by the Great Famine of 1315 and the deadly bubonic plague dubbed 'The Black Death.'

100 years of Papal Supremacy and the most that happened was a few administrators in the Church loaded their pockets. I'm a Christian, and I'm not a fan of slandering the Church. But I want to point out the deeds of these individuals so that their blasphemy of the truth does not convince others that their way was a true representation of Christ's teachings. They were something entirely different. And when you put Germanic soldiers in the office of pope, like was the case with Pope Nicholas I.

Hi Blue,

He did indeed line the pockets of the Church.. but his strengths were his fight against heresy. I think he may now be paying for his deeds and is believed to be in purgatory on the very day he died. He is said to have appeared to St. Lutgarda in her monastery at Aywiers in Brabant. Engulfed in flames, he declared to her, “I am Pope Innocent”. He continued to explain that he was in purgatory for three faults which had caused him to arrive in this state. Innocent asked St. Lutgarda to come to his assistance, saying, “Alas! It is terrible; and will last for centuries if you do not come to my assistance. In the name of Mary, who has obtained for me the favour of appealing to you, help me!” At that moment he disappeared and St. Lutgarda informed her sisters of what she had seen.[27]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Blue,

He did indeed line the pockets of the Church.. but his strengths were* his fight against heresy. I think he may now be paying for his deeds and is believed to be in purgatory on the very day he died. He is said to have appeared to St. Lutgarda in her monastery at Aywiers in Brabant. Engulfed in flames, he declared to her, “I am Pope Innocent”. He continued to explain that he was in purgatory for three faults which had caused him to arrive in this state. Innocent asked St. Lutgarda to come to his assistance, saying, “Alas! It is terrible; and will last for centuries if you do not come to my assistance. In the name of Mary, who has obtained for me the favour of appealing to you, help me!” At that moment he disappeared and St. Lutgarda informed her sisters of what she had seen.[27]

Oops just noticed grammar error and way too late to edit "was his fight"* :blush:

Edited by Star of the Sea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me..accepting the MOTB would be extremely personal to anyone involved in accepting it. Let's suppose a scenario exists in which accepting the MOTB would decide whether your child or loved one would be killed (or worse) in front of you. Or perhaps they needed medical treatment or food to simply survive. Imagine what you would do at that time. Would you accept this mark in order to spare your child or loved one? Or would you allow your child to be sacrificied in order to follow your beliefs? I believe Abraham in the Bible was also presented with this dillema. Christians throughout the world have known such persecutions..even today. They are persecuted for a belief. Hated..and for what? Religious wars have been fought for thousands of years...men killing each other over 'religious' beliefs. A war of opinions and beliefs...'My god is greater than yours!..you are wrong so you must die!'..type of thinking. Look at Palestine and Isreal. Love, according to the Bible, is the Law. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. If mankind were to follow that one little law...and actually love God and one another..there would be no need for the MOFTB. But we, mankind, we worship our power, greed, money, and ourselves in order to appear successful..but to whom? To the definitions of success written by 'society' ?

Society says you must have x amount of dollars..or x amount of education or drive x type of car to have some kind of worldly prestige! Why? Because we are taught that success in life is based on material possesions or our 'knowledge' and our educational accomplishments..these are worldly things. The topic of this thread is more spiritual in nature in my opinion. If, according to prophecy, you cannot buy or sell without this mark then that makes all of your worldly accomplishments worthless. So no matter what your 'rank' in society...without this mark..you can't feed yourself or your family. At least not in the ways you used to.

Man is not only flesh and blood..but spirit as well..and we forget..because we get so wrapped up in all our electronic devices and toys..we forget what we are and why we are. In my opinion. You are, obviously, free to express your own- Without judgement on my part :)

So one can say, at this time, NO I will not accept the MOTB. But until one is faced with situations that are far more horrible than those listed above.(hypotheticaly) only then could a man truly test his/her beliefs and know his/her choice and truly know him/her self. In the US..you are already numbered. Your SS number..your DL...try getting a good job without either! ...the change could be so subtle that you will willingly go along. People are so easily mislead....just ask the politicians and news outlets who's interests they truly serve..the good of the people..or that of themselves??

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:56 AM

snapback.pngShabd Mystic, on 04 October 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Well, I'm sure that the scientific and medical community will want to know that you have redefined "death" to include the presence of rigamortis. Thousands of doctors will want to stop filing false death certificates. And the hundreds of scientific papers that study the thousands of people who have died and been revived and had "near death" experiences will need to be thrown out since "joc" has rendered them invalid. You are a wealth of knowledge and information. Thanks for sharing your "expertise." :)

I don't care what you say or what 'scientists' or doctors say. Dead is dead. End of ******* story...

Shabad Mystic,

While I still think dead is dead...I will modifiy the quote above to say that I do care what you and others say. I have never experienced anything like what you apparently have. I just read an article about a neuro-surgeon who beleived as I do...until he experienced something while in a coma. Here is that article if you want to read it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shabad Mystic,

While I still think dead is dead...I will modifiy the quote above to say that I do care what you and others say. I have never experienced anything like what you apparently have. I just read an article about a neuro-surgeon who beleived as I do...until he experienced something while in a coma. Here is that article if you want to read it.

I started a thread on this very topic about an hour ago. I have to say that i am incredibly impressed by your post. The one thing I very rarely ever find on any message board, particularly this one, is an open mind. Most people come here just wanting to spout off their own beliefs. Very few are interested in challenging those beliefs. Thanks so much for posting this! I really appreciate it.

By the way, that thread is here:

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=235545

Also, as I mentioned in that thread, here is a link to a PDF on near-death experiences that blows away what that doctor says. This is much more involved and more widely researched. It starts with an abstract but don't let that influence you because that part isn't written to be engaging. The entire paper though is a GREAT read.

http://spiritualscientific.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/GreysonNDEandSpirituality.79194349.pdf

Edited by Shabd Mystic
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a 53-minute audio interview with the Harvard neuroscientist who experienced "death" and now is convinced that everything he once believed was wrong. It's a fascinating listen:

http://www.skeptiko.com/upload/skeptiko-154-eben-alexander.mp3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started a thread on this very topic about an hour ago. I have to say that i am incredibly impressed by your post. The one thing I very rarely ever find on any message board, particularly this one, is an open mind. Most people come here just wanting to spout off their own beliefs. Very few are interested in challenging those beliefs. Thanks so much for posting this! I really appreciate it.

By the way, that thread is here:

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=235545

Also, as I mentioned in that thread, here is a link to a PDF on near-death experiences that blows away what that doctor says. This is much more involved and more widely researched. It starts with an abstract but don't let that influence you because that part isn't written to be engaging. The entire paper though is a GREAT read.

http://spiritualscie...ty.79194349.pdf

So far I have not had time to read or listen to your links...however; I did have a thought and I will share it 'before' I get into your information. Then, after I watch and read I will either restate or 'rethink' the entire issue again. Here is my thought:

We have all had dreams where we just 'knew' without question that we were not dreaming...only to wake up and realize, 'phew, that was a dream'.

Why do we know it was a dream when we wake up? And, on the other side of the coin; Why do we know that our OBEs are real? I think the answer to both questions has to do with the way the 'memory' of the event is processed. When we awaken our memory imprints begin to fade and we realize that was not reality. Perhaps in OBEs, the memory of the event is processed in the same way as real life adventures are processed. So instead of fading like a dream, these 'hallucinations' are imprinted into our psyche as real events. Just a thought...I'll be back...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far I have not had time to read or listen to your links...however; I did have a thought and I will share it 'before' I get into your information. Then, after I watch and read I will either restate or 'rethink' the entire issue again. Here is my thought:

We have all had dreams where we just 'knew' without question that we were not dreaming...only to wake up and realize, 'phew, that was a dream'.

Why do we know it was a dream when we wake up?

Then why don't we know the near-death experience was a 'dream" when we "wake up?" Why do people who have experienced them come back saying it was "hyper-real" and more real than anything they have ever experienced? Why do they say that what we call life now feels to them like a dream? That life no longer feels "real."

And why do mystics who describe tons more such experiences and much greater "heights" on their travels all say that what we all think of as :life" is nothing but a mere illusion?

Just some things to think about, but nothing can possibly ever answer these questions "intellectually." The human mind is not even capable of explaining so much of what is experienced via the 'inner journey" because there is nothing in life that even compares to most of it. The ONLY way to ever get the answers is not by reading other people's experiences, it's by having them yourself. Until then you will have only questions, no matter how much you might wish to believe what you're told.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then why don't we know the near-death experience was a 'dream" when we "wake up?" Why do people who have experienced them come back saying it was "hyper-real" and more real than anything they have ever experienced? Why do they say that what we call life now feels to them like a dream? That life no longer feels "real."

And why do mystics who describe tons more such experiences and much greater "heights" on their travels all say that what we all think of as :life" is nothing but a mere illusion?

Just some things to think about, but nothing can possibly ever answer these questions "intellectually." The human mind is not even capable of explaining so much of what is experienced via the 'inner journey" because there is nothing in life that even compares to most of it. The ONLY way to ever get the answers is not by reading other people's experiences, it's by having them yourself. Until then you will have only questions, no matter how much you might wish to believe what you're told.

Well, the good doctor actually addressed that question in the audio link you provided. He initially hypothesised that perhaps there was what he called...overactivity of excitatory pathways. I have never heard that term but that is essentially what I was talking about in my previous post. In dreams the memory fades...in NDEs and OBEs the memory is 'hyper-real' as you said. Which would lead one to believe that it probably is overactivity of excitatory pathways. But...and...I have only studied the brain as a layman who has some interest in it...the good doctor is a Neuro Surgeon for crying out loud, so, I feel I must give some credence to his conclusion that overactivity of excitatory pathways was not really a viable explanation.

So, I will continue to think on this. Thanks for the links and when I have other thoughts I'll let you know...In the meantime, I will just say that you are correct when you say that...

nothing can possibly ever answer these questions "intellectually." The human mind is not even capable of explaining so much of what is experienced via the 'inner journey" because there is nothing in life that even compares to most of it. The ONLY way to ever get the answers is not by reading other people's experiences, it's by having them yourself.

I can only hope that I never get a chance to have these experiences myself. But, the intellectual curiosity being what it is will still no doubt seek answers. If I come up with any...I'll let you know. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the good doctor actually addressed that question in the audio link you provided. He initially hypothesised that perhaps there was what he called...overactivity of excitatory pathways. I have never heard that term but that is essentially what I was talking about in my previous post. In dreams the memory fades...in NDEs and OBEs the memory is 'hyper-real' as you said. Which would lead one to believe that it probably is overactivity of excitatory pathways.

But...and...I have only studied the brain as a layman who has some interest in it...the good doctor is a Neuro Surgeon for crying out loud, so, I feel I must give some credence to his conclusion that overactivity of excitatory pathways was not really a viable explanation.

Yes, his exact quote was, "In fact, I never found an anatomic distribution that would support that over-activity of excitatory pathways."

So, I will continue to think on this. Thanks for the links and when I have other thoughts I'll let you know...In the meantime, I will just say that you are correct when you say that...

I can only hope that I never get a chance to have these experiences myself. But, the intellectual curiosity being what it is will still no doubt seek answers. If I come up with any...I'll let you know. :)

Well, I hope you never get to have any such experiences if they are achieved via "near-death." If you wish to have them via mysticism it only takes meditating to experience it. When you get to the point where your concentration is one-pointed you lose awareness of your body completely. You are not aware of anything at all, in fact. The mind has ceased all thought.

At that point mystics say that your "soul" leaves your body. The body is not harmed but remains in a deep state of rest while "you" in the form of "soul," instead of a physical body, traverse the higher planes of consciousness. Also known as the heavens.

Over time you go to greater and greater realms. And over time all your faults begin to drop off one by one and you become filled with love and compassion like nothing you have ever known. Eventually you reach a state that Buddhists call Nirvana, some other mystic paths refer to it as "God-realization." You are "one with God." You can move mountains if you so desire (but you will be so filled with love and bliss that you'll have no desire to ever do so.)

You are then the equivalent of Jesus or Buddha, or countless other "God men" that made no waves and weren't recorded by history (many were known, though they aren't recognized today as such because religions weren't later formed around their teachings).

I know that sounds absolutely insane, but unlike religions that all promise great things "after death," mysticism promises them before you die. And as that PDF I linked to says (it's in the other thread if I didn't in this thread) mysticism and near-death experiences have A LOT in common. Most importantly that you can experience God, heaven and so much more, and do so well before you die and you find out that everything you believed from religion can only be had if you achieve them while you are living.

Anyway, it sounds nuts and if you think it is then just laugh it off or ignore it. If it sounds interesting there are countless books and other sources out there that have a ton more information. Either way, I have nothing to lose or gain. I get no brownie points either way, lol. I'm just sharing this in the chance that you "might" be interested. If not, no problem at all. I'm just throwing it out in case there is any interest.

.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would live in the woods.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would live in the woods.

What if they burn the woods down.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 5

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.