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Still Waters

MOD ignores UFO reports

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Get yourself security clearance to S4 at Papoose Lake Nevada. That's where they all end up.

Says Who !

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Says Speilberg ! and Will Smith !

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What I realy wonder is, if aliens one day shows, would one individual or a group have base for sue his state for not doing anything and not trying to protect him.

Not to mention ruined lives of people who claimed that they were abducted. Alien abduction become synonym for psychologichal problems.

Anyway I would like to see those trials if greys appears.

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I'm sure MOD officials are aware of radar/visual cases like the one described in the interview below (and there are also unexplained incidents like this one within the flight corridors of one of the world's busiest airports) so I really do wonder why the MOD are claiming not to be concerned about the UFO subject.

See 13:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy4siphqKLY

In the article below it mentions the Operation Mainbrace UFO incidents that were said to cause the RAF to 'officially recognize' the UFO subject and other UFO cases which forced the MOD to 'rethink and then reverse its policy' - it also states that two Air Ministry Divisions were actively involved in investigating UFO sightings (S6 and DDI) - don't know what the findings of their investigations were but if the British MOD were taking specific UFO incidents that seriously back then I can't see them just abandoning their investigations nowadays.

Commentary on DSI/JTIC Report No 7:

In chapter 17 Ruppelt reveals that even after he had left Project Blue Book and the USAF, friends in RAF intelligence kept him informed about latest developments, on a private basis.

Another indication of the strong US influence on the Flying Saucer Working Party is the fact that their June 1951 final report was entitled Unidentified Flying Objects. This term had been devised by Ruppelt himself, early in 1951, but was not at the time in use outside US Government circles.

..The Flying Saucer Working Party had been dissolved in 1951 amidst a frenzy of scepticism that had clearly been fuelled by the Americans. The response that Churchill received to his 1952 enquiry showed that the sceptics still had the upper hand within the MOD. But this was soon to change.During the period 1952 to 1957 there were a series of UFO sightings involving the military, which forced the MOD to rethink and then reverse its policy. These included sightings during Operation Mainbrace in September 1952 (including those at RAF Topcliffe), the West Malling incident on 3 November 1953, Flight Lieutenant Salandin’s near-collision with a UFO on 14 October 1954, the Lakenheath/Bentwaters radar/visual sightings on 13 and 14 August 1956 and the RAF West Freugh incident on 4 April 1957.

High-profile sightings such as these, together with the increasing number of reports from the general public, pushed the sceptics within MOD onto the defensive. The Flying Saucer Working Party’s recommendation that UFO sightings should not be investigated was overturned and by the mid-Fifties two Air Ministry Divisions were actively involved in investigating UFO sightings. The divisions concerned were S6, a civilian secretariat division on the air staff, and DDI(Tech), a technical intelligence division. Their brief was to research and investigate the UFO phenomenon looking for evidence of any threat to the UK.

Full Article

Edited by karl 12

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But to tell you the truth Mac'...I can't say that i'm sad about the announcement myself!...for the simple reason that I have never thought that the 'UFO Desk' at Whitehall was anything more than a Front created solely to placate the general public's thirst for knowledge!..and that the real investigatory actions are, and always have been performed behind some Very Thick doors! ;)

1963, some very thick doors indeed. :tu:

I remember retired Bluebook Chief Colonel Robert Friend once said that during his tenure there were 'classified intelligence channels for reporting UFO's that completely bypassed Bluebook' and government docs also exist which state that 'UFO reports that were a threat to national security weren't even part of the Bluebook system' (link) so maybe there's a parallel British equivalent that's been operating somewhere for quite some time (speculative opinion of course).

Also, when it comes to the MOD I always found this quote from one of their senior officials to be quite a revealing one..

"Here we had a number of object seen coming in across the North Sea on coastal radar. It looked like a Russian mistake. Jet aircraft were scrambled. The objects were travelling at quite impossible speeds like 4-5000 mph and then came to an abrupt halt near to one of these stations not very high up. Jet aircraft picked them up on aircraft radar. The objects then simply made rings round them."

"Inevitably this led to the sort of enquiry which you would put in hand if you had any military responsibilities. Had something gone wrong with ground radar or with aircraft radar? We experienced pilots going out of their minds? Were people having fantasies? We *had* to investigate cases of that kind. Over the years - although there were not an enormous number of such cases - there were a sufficient number to persuade me, and a number of air staff friends with whom I had to work, that something was going on, sporadically, in British airspace which we could not explain."

"But we did not particularly want to make public statements about that. Not for something that we had no explanation."

Ralph Noyes,Senior Official with British Air Ministry - retired as Under Secretary of State in 1977

link

Here's what Jacques Vallee also had to say about censorship and manipulation of UFO data when governments 'encouraged secret briefings' and 'funded classified research' whilst all the time pretending to the public the subject was nonsense - pretty interesting statement, especially from a man of his calibre.

"Governments took notice, organizing task forces, encouraging secret briefings and study groups, funding classified research and all the time denying before the public that any of the phenomena might be real. The major revelation of these Diaries may be the demonstration of how the scientific community was misled by the government, how the best data were kept hidden, and how the public record was shamelessly manipulated."

Dr. Jacques Vallee, astrophysicist, computer scientist 1992

link

Cheers!

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That makes me think of a metaphor that many UFOs records just go up and up and out of sight, like the UFOs themselves. LOL

Amen to that mate - there's an incident described in this thread where the British MOD document was said to be so so sensitive that "an extra three years was added to its 25 year release date" and another case in the first post here that was so sensitive the MOD 'broke with all official protocol when reporting and investigating the incident'.

I suppose it could be seen as a little irresponsible for the MOD to end all 'official investigations' into the UFO subject in light of all these sensitive and unexplained UFO incidents. :yes:

Cheers.

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THe MoD wouldnt know a UFO if it landed on -em !

post-68971-0-11923800-1345591912_thumb.j

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I think it makes perfect sense for the MOD not to consider UFOs as a real defense threat.

There is actually no point whatsoever in trying to defend against a hostile alien attack, we would get seriously creamed, the end.

I think Seth Shostak the SETI scientist summed it up quite nicely when he said something like "it would be like cavemen spending money to defend themselves against an attack by the USAF, their money would be better spent elsewhere".

Edited by Occams Razor

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Why are you ok with that? Because the MoD, having studied the subject exhaustively, knows that UFOs aren't extraterrestrial spacecraft? Or even more pertinently, that they know for a fact that they're not aircraft of any kind? If the MoD really did believe that, would you really be ok with that? Would you not feel slightly concerned that they seem to treat the question of unauthorised incursions into their airspace in such a casual way?

Not really. If nothing can be done about it why worry about it? Why spend money on UFOs when there are so many tangible problems that need money spent on them.

It's not as though UFOs are buzzing airliners and abducting people on a regular basis. If the UFOs are indeed extraterrestrial spacecraft they can't be hostile or we would know about it by now. And if they were hostile we couldn't defend ourselves against them anyway, so why worry about it?

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I keep hearing that tune that Bobby Mc Farin does ! "Dont worrie Be HAPPY "

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I think it makes perfect sense for the MOD not to consider UFOs as a real defense threat.

I don't know how the MOD's claim that 'unidentified' objects cause no threat if they can't even identify them but I suppose they're just banking on people unquestioningly accepting it -there's some relevant reading at the link below concerning the work of British researcher Julian J.A. Hennessey and he does a good job of pointing out some of the 'inherent shortcomings' of MOD UFO policy including claims of 'force fit' debunking and massaging the statistics of actual unknown reports.

Firstly, the Ministry does not appear to operate on an immediate capability basis. Often, witnesses in major cases were not interviewed until weeks after making their report. The value and validity of doing so is certainly in question. The Ministry has stated in the House (of Commons) that it is often difficult to assess what a witness observed several days later, let alone several weeks.

Secondly, judging from my correspondence with the Ministry, it appears unable to positively identify an extremely high number of the reports made. Yet the annual statistics never support this fact. UFOs listed as "probable balloons" suddenly become definite balloons statistically. Cases have even occurred where the Ministry was even unable to identify jet interceptors involved.

Thirdly, explanations given witnesses are often more puzzling to them than the nature of the UFO reported. In many cases, the witnesses, often trained competent observers, have regarded these Ministry explanations as an insult to their intelligence and certainly would never again report any other such observation to the Ministry. My discussions with airline pilots revealed that a majority of them would never make a report to the Ministry for fear of ridicule. A highly unsatisfactory situation caused by the present policy.

Fourthly, once an explanation has been given, the Ministry will not, even when the evidence has been presented to the contrary, review its findings if the evidence presented does not fit in with theirs. It has a strong tendency to ignore valid points in the statements of witnesses simply because it does not support what they think is the probable cause of the sighting.

Lastly, the Ministry only investigates the air defence implications of reports and admits that it has never carried out a study into their scientific implications. Scientists or serious UFO researchers have no access to these unclassified reports on file. Indeed, it is only over the recent years that such reports are permanently retained. Previously they were destroyed after a 5-year period.

From the above, it is clear that, in the first instance, a major public relations problem exists. My opinion is certainly not an isolated one, a prominent scientist, who visited the then Air Ministry for a discussion of UFOs, stated to me in a tape-recorded conversation, "I am probably speaking treason here, but there seems no point to follow things up and no basic rapport between the British Air Ministry and the public...they say the public be damned!" The same attitude has not changed six years later! If one accepts the above as the only "true" picture, which is how the public now sees it, then the Ministry's investigation is one of gross incompetence that endangers National security. However, my observations lead me to believe that it is not the only investigation."

link

Cheers.

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I don't know how the MOD's claim that 'unidentified' objects cause no threat if they can't even identify them but I suppose they're just banking on people unquestioningly accepting it -there's some relevant reading at the link below concerning the work of British researcher Julian J.A. Hennessey and he does a good job of pointing out some of the 'inherent shortcomings' of MOD UFO policy including claims of 'force fit' debunking and massaging the statistics of actual unknown reports.

Cheers.

The thing is these unidentified aerial phenomena, whatever they are, don't cause any problems. Until they have a tangible physical effect on man or machine the MOD won't take them seriously, to do so would cost money that could be better spent elsewhere. Interviewing witnesses is not particularly useful as witnesses can be easily confused, a UFO enthusiast might see a structured alien spacecraft, whilst a police officer might see a bright light etc etc. There are also many "Walter Mitty" types, and writers out for a quid out there to cloud the situation with fanciful stories. Until one of these things badly damages a road or building, or MOD installation, or brings down an airliner on a city, or beams a car up into it from the M1 with hundreds of witnesses and video footage of the event, no-one in the MOD will take them seriously, why would they?

I know it's an old question but why don't these things fly low up the Thames and over London, just to let everyone see exactly what they are if indeed they are "visitors"? For all we really know all of these unidentified aerial phenomena could be some weird natural occurrence.

Edited by Occams Razor
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It makes perfect sense that there was a cover up during the Cold War, and in any case we know for a fact that there was and can prove it. We have all kinds of declassified documents to prove that--a thousand times over.

And an enemy can be hostile without resorting to a fill-fledged invasion. It happens all the time in history, just like the Cold War itself.

I would be very interested to see some of these thousands of declassified documents that "prove" there was a UFO cover-up during the cold war. Would they be of similar quality to the General's affidavit you posted about alien bodies that didn't mention alien bodies?

The other thing that springs to mind is why on earth (no pun intended) would a government cover up any alien technology that had fallen into their possession or any kind of alien liaison they may have? Not only does this not make "perfect sense", it makes no sense at all, it's nonsense.

This would be invaluable information to give any enemy in any cold war, it would scare them to death. There's no way anyone would even consider attacking you if they thought you had friends or technology of extraterrestrial origin. A deterrent is only a deterrent if your enemy knows you have it.

Edited by Occams Razor

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1963, some very thick doors indeed. :tu:

I remember retired Bluebook Chief Colonel Robert Friend once said that during his tenure there were 'classified intelligence channels for reporting UFO's that completely bypassed Bluebook' and government docs also exist which state that 'UFO reports that were a threat to national security weren't even part of the Bluebook system' (link) so maybe there's a parallel British equivalent that's been operating somewhere for quite some time (speculative opinion of course).

Also, when it comes to the MOD I always found this quote from one of their senior officials to be quite a revealing one..

Here's what Jacques Vallee also had to say about censorship and manipulation of UFO data when governments 'encouraged secret briefings' and 'funded classified research' whilst all the time pretending to the public the subject was nonsense - pretty interesting statement, especially from a man of his calibre.

Cheers!

The bottom line is:

If these things have hostile intent and have done since the early 60's all of us would be well and truly aware of it by now through our own personal experience of fighting them.

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And when The X-Files wasn't a big deal any more, the UFO reports from the general public dwindled to the usual trickle, and mysteriously Nick Pope didn't have a job any more. But by that time he'd come to believe it, so he wrote books instead.

Not necessarily, Mr Pope probably realized he needed to generate an income and there was money to be made on the UFO talk circuit and books about UFOs. In truth he may not think there's anything to it at all, but it does keep him in the style he has become accustomed to.

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The bottom line is:

If these things have hostile intent and have done since the early 60's all of us would be well and truly aware of it by now through our own personal experience of fighting them.

I couldn't agree more. Whatever UFOs might be there doesn't appear to be anything indicating ET invasion. Now, some will say it's some kind of covert invasion thingy...abductions and DNA experimentation. But, if this is the case it's certainly taking ET one heck of a long time (Roswell was in the late 1940s). IMO, if some UFOs are indeed ET (and I've yet to see any hard evidence of this) then they just seem to be observers of the human condition.

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But what if the Aliens have re-programed our brains to want lots of carb`s and sugar,tons of junk food, watch porn all night to make us weak in the mind and sprit. THen , and only then they will swoop down to earth and collect us up for there Dinner?

We dont have a chance !

Well Im turning off all the porn,stop eatting carbs,sugar`s soda pop`s ect. I will make my body un-appeitising ! as possible I`ll fry it in the sun to a crispy well done tough as leather,then jump into a tub of vinegar with some hot peppers !

Wait stop the buss ! I would eat that in a min ! Who am I kidding ? E.T will just pass this rock up in a blink. They already know that were the wurst food in the Universe ! It says so in the Guide !

Well Im off to Look up again,you never know when one just might crash here !

RIGHT !

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But what if the Aliens have re-programed our brains to want lots of carb`s and sugar,tons of junk food, watch porn all night to make us weak in the mind and sprit. THen , and only then they will swoop down to earth and collect us up for there Dinner?

We dont have a chance !

Well Im turning off all the porn,stop eatting carbs,sugar`s soda pop`s ect. I will make my body un-appeitising ! as possible I`ll fry it in the sun to a crispy well done tough as leather,then jump into a tub of vinegar with some hot peppers !

Wait stop the buss ! I would eat that in a min ! Who am I kidding ? E.T will just pass this rock up in a blink. They already know that were the wurst food in the Universe ! It says so in the Guide !

Well Im off to Look up again,you never know when one just might crash here !

RIGHT !

Maybe they secretly own Mcdonalds and when we reach a certain weight we go through the drive through and a trap door opens and then we become burger meat.

I always thought Ronald was a bit sinister....

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I don't know how the MOD's claim that 'unidentified' objects cause no threat if they can't even identify them but I suppose they're just banking on people unquestioningly accepting it -there's some relevant reading at the link below concerning the work of British researcher Julian J.A. Hennessey and he does a good job of pointing out some of the 'inherent shortcomings' of MOD UFO policy including claims of 'force fit' debunking and massaging the statistics of actual unknown reports.

Cheers.

It would probably have something to do with no UFO causing any harm? I know some believe they are evil, but we are not seeing citizens vaporised on a regular basis or anything are we?

The MoD would be keeping files from us because imagine if you or I were to find out they had ET info under wraps! Why we would............. just what would we do?

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I know it's an old question but why don't these things fly low up the Thames and over London, just to let everyone see exactly what they are if indeed they are "visitors"? For all we really know all of these unidentified aerial phenomena could be some weird natural occurrence.

because they'd very likely provoke fighters to be scrambled to shoot them down. That would be very silly, and would be very counter-productive to any program of scientific research, or whatever other interests they may have.

I know it's an old question but why don't these things fly low up the Thames and over London, just to let everyone see exactly what they are if indeed they are "visitors"? For all we really know all of these unidentified aerial phenomena could be some weird natural occurrence.

because they'd very likely provoke fighters to be scrambled to shoot them down. That would be very silly, and would be very counter-productive to any program of scientific research, or whatever other interests they may have.

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It would probably have something to do with no UFO causing any harm? I know some believe they are evil, but we are not seeing citizens vaporised on a regular basis or anything are we?

The MoD would be keeping files from us because imagine if you or I were to find out they had ET info under wraps! Why we would............. just what would we do?

........we would......know how good they were at spinning and misdirection :tu:

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........we would......know how good they were at spinning and misdirection :tu:

Good call!

And then?

Or, what if we find out they know what I suspect they know?

Edited by psyche101

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Good call!

And then?

Or, what if we find out they know what I suspect they know?

well then we do nothing I guess :)

more interesting is that we find out they know what I suspect they know/did know....although still not sure what the next move would be

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Don't see what the fuss is about really,the MOD choose to ignore something that doesn't exist and in all reality may have a more worldly explanation and therefore presents no threat to us.

Please feel free to present declassified documents that tell you nothing,dodgy Youtube videos that are faked or presented by dodgy Scientists or ex military personel.

I for one truly believe that we have never been or at this moment in time are being visited by ET's.

No evidence,no bodies, no alleged wreckage, nothing........

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Theres always evidence ! ITs just hidden out under Wright Patterson !

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