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monk 56

Sirius and Alnilam, Secret Societies

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If you can't understand Math, Longitude, Latitude English or math, well you had better give a good account of yourself, you are not someone that should be active regarding these factors on this thread....I will bury you if you don't give Right of Passage, no doubt you won't observe!

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Posted (edited)

How can you say you have given thesis against, I'm gonna bury you Jaylemurph if you don't give way to Right of Passage, to astronomy. Math and ancient concepts....do what you want to...anyone seen he has any concept with math yet....i'm on the edge Jaylemurph, i don't like to do what you push for....you have no analysis, just hot air, obviously you do not know i'm going to go through many histories with this with math and astronomy....you are getting nowhere here! Don't leave it to me to blast you, it isn't my intention! i'm going to bed now i need sleep!

Edited by monk 56

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your critical methods seems to consist of throwing mud against a wall to see what sticks.

What a wonderful analogy!!

Hi Jaylemurph,

..................................

My interest isn't to bury you, i fully understand how you debate, perhaps sometimes i use another language it is called Math, members will note that i do win battles in math, please show where you win battles in this area and astronomy??

..................................................

Be careful how you go Jaylemurph.....don't try me in math, even if you try in English....i leave two links below, no doubt you won't understand math language ha ha!

Then why dont you shift your silly topic to the astronomy forum in this website?

What are you going to do if we debate you on maths,? are you going to beat us down ??

Every man should be student and no one should claim superiority.

How can you say you have given thesis against, I'm gonna bury you Jaylemurph if you don't give way to Right of Passage, to astronomy. Math and ancient concepts.

As i told, take it to the astronomy forum, or the mods to make one for you where you can sit and debate with yourself.

What i feel about you is a sense of disconnection with the normal world and normal people. You have elevated or descended yourself to a level with psychosis.

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How can you say you have given thesis against, I'm gonna bury you Jaylemurph if you don't give way to Right of Passage, to astronomy. Math and ancient concepts....do what you want to...anyone seen he has any concept with math yet....i'm on the edge Jaylemurph, i don't like to do what you push for....you have no analysis, just hot air, obviously you do not know i'm going to go through many histories with this with math and astronomy....you are getting nowhere here! Don't leave it to me to blast you, it isn't my intention! i'm going to bed now i need sleep!

I am fully able to intelligently discuss /actual/ mathematics and the sciences, including astronomy. For all your hot air, you have yet to actually do so yourself. I have nothing to argue against, as of yet. When you start saying whatever it is you think, and provide actual data to discuss in terms of maths and science, we will do so.

--Jaylemurph

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Hi Spartan,

I see no reason in your comments, on another thread on this forum Kmt_Sesh wrote "It's Obvious you're passionate about this topic of Hermeticism, so why not start your own thread about it?"

As i had a thread dealing with this and had no wish to double up information i simply had this thread transferred, i see no reason for all the hot air about this issue.

Okay now i will explain the astronomy pictures that are throughout this thread with odds of chance which means that it isn't coincidence.

The Sun will appear to move through the constellations about one degree that is equal to four minutes of time in a day, a fuller explanation of this is below:-

http://www.clarkfoundation.org/astro-utah/vondel/Extraday.html

The Paran or Paranatellonta is an ancient measure regarding fixed stars and was a way of aligning a day to the gods

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10705808

Astrologers use Cardinal Points called ascendant, this is the horizontal line of horizon at location in East, and descendant which is the same but the line in the West, we know this as latitude in astronomy.

The other two points are Longitude based being M.C., Middle of the sky or Medium Coeli and the Nadir being below the Earth, Longitude is used by vertical straight lines, and these areas have always been believed by astrologers as very sensitive, so if any were using intentional astrology, regarding marking a day with ancient gods it is on these four lines that the pattern would form, meaning they had waited for the right day at location to be able to do this.

The ancient Greeks used sunset as day start, as do modern Jews, please scroll down link below to "Time":-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_units_of_measurement

The Romans and Egyptians used sunrise, when we started making clocks, midnight was used as with the Gregorian Calendar, which was aligned like the Egyptian Calendar only it was changed to midnight, this can be seen even in our era when we look at the Prime Meridian at midnight on January 1st, when Sirius only culminates in the middle of the sky for one day out of 365 days at the dawn of the new year, graph below:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6694&mode=view

I'll be back soon to talk more about the Prime Meridian and the International Meridian Conference, as midnight was changed in line with Greenwich which must be explained regarding time zones before i go further!

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Allow me to question the usefulness of information gleaned from a site dedicated to one of the biggest fringe let-downs of recent memory. I think we all can vividly attest to the fact the world did not end back in 2012. Not even a little bit.

I mean, if you want to cite info from theworldisflat.org or cureyourcold withabloodletting.net, I guess you can. I applaud your lack of irony.

--Jaylemurph

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Posted (edited)

It must be noted i wasn't involved in anything regarding 2012 Mayan Calendar disaster theories, other than commenting that the calendar probably originated in Izapa, Mexico, and that from that location it was aligned to Sunrise and Sunset with Sirius and Alnilam on 21st December 2012.

I have to finish this part about midnight before i move on in explaining, everywhere used local time once with midnight even in small Britain, In Bristol there was a ten minute difference in time, as shown below:-

http://wwp.greenwich...ristol-time.htm

The invention of trains changed a great deal regarding midnight, before this when everyone used local time, everywhere had Sirius culminating in the middle of the sky at midnight at new year, soon time zones were introduced, this was set out in Washington D.C. at the International Meridian Conference of October 1884, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....dian_Conference

Not all nations changed to Greenwich Meridian at this time, India and a lot of Africa took far longer including other areas of the world thus i'm very careful with midnight alignments to be accurate as an astronomer, sunrise and sunset alignments aren't effected as there are two points at location, this doesn't take so much care!

Today with New Year because of time zones, Sirius will not bring in New Year as it once did in all locations, generally it will happen given a degree up or down of every 15 degrees of longitude from Greenwich, UK......So it will happen in New York or Cairo!

The Cardinal points i mentioned in astrology belief earlier are the same as the cardinal directions that is needed to find locations, link below:-

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_direction

It must be noted that Midnight at New Year, Sirius will only be in the centre of the sky every roughly 15 degrees of Greenwich UK in the Northern Hemisphere, not in the Southern Hemisphere, due to summer time that started during the First World War that effects 1st January....i'll continue explaining soon!

Edited by monk 56

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The four directions of the compass regarding these beliefs are set out below, and it is on these points that secret beliefs can be noted, and is a symbol of latitude and longitude:-

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/291.html

So to day mark 3 can be used being sunrise, sunset or midnight onto the four directions at location using tight margins of one degree. This by chance can happen in theory 12 times for Sirius and 12 times for Alnilam, Belt of Orion, but in practice it doesn't work out like that, you have just noted in the Southern Hemisphere Sirius doesn't have a midnight culmination at New Year, and in many areas, you usaully lose one of 4 midnight alignments of Sirius due to it getting lost in Summer time application.

Also for this to happen in any location by midnight, sunrise or sunset on the four directions of the compass for two stars, usaully you get two double alignments as an average in any location, and example would be Alnilam culminating at midnight but on the same day as the Sun rose, Sirius may be setting.

In truth the average for this to happen would be approx. 21 days out of 365 days, so what i show in all my graphs is not much of this can be coincidence.

So it it synchronicity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

Well guys if that was so, we would have to think that some aspect of Astrology works, but i don't think this, in regards to this study, it is known that people use the stars in belief, but obviously it is a shock that it comes out on constitution days, thus politics:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetism,_Hermeticism_and_other_thought_systems

I'll continue soon!

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In religious festivals celestial objects are used in dates, obviously Easter isn't a fixed date in the death of a god, but the FULL MOON plays a rite of passage!

Easter is calcalated as the first Sunday after the Paschal full moon following the Vernal Equinox.

It isn't unsual for secret societies to mention Sirius or ancient cults as being some of their direction and beliefs, although i wouldn't go as far as saying this is all joined up in some crazy New World Order theory as some do, i'm not keen on little green men being attached either to philosophy debate!

http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/masonic-blazing-star.html

http://comasonic.net/

I'll be back tomorrow!

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The other two points are Longitude based being M.C., Middle of the sky or Medium Coeli and the Nadir being below the Earth, Longitude is used by vertical straight lines, and these areas have always been believed by astrologers as very sensitive, so if any were using intentional astrology, regarding marking a day with ancient gods it is on these four lines that the pattern would form, meaning they had waited for the right day at location to be able to do this.

I question your so-called mastery of mathematics and science. Longitude, at least that longitude used by real people, is not "used by vertical straight lines" either in mapping the Earth or the Sky. The Earth, as you may have heard, is a sphere (or, rather, spheroid). Longitude meridians are, therefore, neither straight nor vertical. They are curvilinear. The apparent sky is dome-shaped, so any line mapping it will also be neither straight nor vertical.

And I still have no idea the point you're trying to make. Are you, for instance, suggesting the Odin's Cross is somehow a symbol for understanding latitude and longitude? And why can't what you (allege you) show in your graphs /not/ be coincidence? You've shown no real application of math or science to prove anything, you just seem to be shuffling defintions around to show... I don't know, something, but you're being too coy (or assuming whatever you're saying is obvious when it isn't) to put it plainly.

--Jaylemurph

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Posted (edited)

Hi Jaylemurph,

As i said, you are a layman and clearly don't understand Longitude and Meridians as used by astronomers, you seem to have trouble with the term "vertical", north and south are used in longitude, and if you scroll down link below to "Longitude" you will find vertical mentioned:-

http://www.learner.o...itudeIntro.html

As you live in New York you are in the right place to See Sirius culminate at midnight on 1st January 2014, you must look due south, imagine a straight line vertical from that point, you will then see Sirius cross that line, thats what it means by the midnight new year culmination of Sirius.

Jack Horkheimer who was the executive director of the Miami Space Transit Planetarium, who had a long running astronomy show is featured on link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....Jack_Horkheimer

Please read about his comments in how to view Sirius at New Year on link below:-

http://2012forum.com...=4550&mode=view

He thought it was an amazing coincidence, but all this was worked out in 1582 in Rome!

The Prime Meridian shows the same thing, look due south, then draw a vertical line upwards to find Sirius culminating. Please note that in Southern Hemisphere you have to look due North, but summer times apply that spoil it!

http://2012forum.com...=6694&mode=view

Another astronomer to read would be Bruce McClure who writes for Earthsky, link below:-

http://earthsky.org/team/brucemcclure

He wrote article below:-

http://www.idialstars.com/sir.htm

Due to precession when Sirius moves on from the Prime Meridian, it will not return for over 24,000 years!

I did intend to carry on explaining today but was busy, i'll be back tomorrow.

Edited by monk 56

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Posted (edited)

As i said, you are a layman and clearly don't understand Longitude and Meridians as used by astronomers, you seem to have trouble with the term "vertical", north and south are used in longitude, and if you scroll down link below to "Longitude" you will find vertical mentioned:-

I encourage you to show where exactly on the site you link to that says "longitude lines are straight". No other site you link to uses longitude in the fashion you seem to suggest. In fact, in the diagrams provided on your one site, they are clearly curved. I can concede they may be vertical -- as opposed to horizontal latitude -- but they are not straight, and it is not a matter of my knowledge of astronomy. Longitude only appears straight on maps where the image is deliberately distorted.

Furthermore, even though I am a humble layman, I believe astronomers themselves use the terms right ascension and declination to locate celestial objects. Even the Wikipedia article on the coordinate system says it is "Analogous to terrestrial longitude" (http://en.wikipedia....tem#Declination) which again means it cannot be straight.

I might be just a layman, but apprarently you don't know enough of the correct terminology or what it is describing to be considered anything different, either.

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph

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Interesting opinion.

Until the ancient city featured on this video was found, its existence was merely theoretical.

It's not complicated.

Not hardly since Hattusa was first established by the Hatti and later used by the Hittites. There was nothing theoretical about it.

Obviously it's too complicated for you since you don't seem to understand the difference between "legendary" and "theoretical". The former of which has been applied to this settlement of the Hattians/later capital of the Hittites. The latter of which doesn't apply to anything here. Plenty enough was known about the Hattian and Hittite peoples before Hattusa's discovery to know that it existed.

cormac

Conversely you seem conveniently incapable of comprehending the obvious similarity between the words 'legendary' and 'theoretical'

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Conversely you seem conveniently incapable of comprehending the obvious similarity between the words 'legendary' and 'theoretical'

leg·en·dar·y

1. Of, constituting, based on, or of the nature of a legend.

2.

.....a. Celebrated in legend.

.....b. Extremely well known; famous or renowned.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/legendary

the·o·ret·i·cal

1. Of, relating to, or based on theory.

2. Restricted to theory; not practical: theoretical physics.

3. Given to theorizing; speculative.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theoretical

Thanks for confirming that you don't know the difference between the two words.

cormac

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Thanks for confirming that you don't know the difference between the two words.

cormac

Wow. Q.E.D.!

--Jaylemurph

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http://www.thefreedi...y.com/legendary

http://www.thefreedi...com/theoretical

Thanks for confirming that you don't know the difference between the two words.

cormac

Thanks for confirming that you continue to ignore the similarities

Wow. Q.E.D.!

--Jaylemurph

Wow indeed

Definitions

Adj. 1. legendary - so celebrated as to having taken on the nature of a legend; "the legendary exploits of the arctic trailblazers"

2. legendary - celebrated in fable or legend; "the fabled Paul Bunyan and his blue ox"; "legendary exploits of Jesse James"

Adj. 1. theoretical - concerned primarily with theories or hypotheses rather than practical considerations; "theoretical science"

2. theoretical - concerned with theories rather than their practical applications; "theoretical physics"

The word 'theoretical' is obviously derived form the word 'theory'

the·o·ry

n. pl. the·o·ries

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.

3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.

4. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.

5. a set of hypotheses related by logical or mathematical arguments to explain and predict a wide variety of connected phenomena in general terms the theory of relativity

[Late Latin theria, from Greek theri, from theros, spectator : probably the, a viewing + -oros, seeing]

On the contrary – thank you for proving that you apparently have not comprehended my meaning

Meanwhile, the next paragraph is a quote from the video link:

"Buried in this lost city is one of the greatest libraries of the ancient world. All the secrets of the mysterious Hittite empire were written in two codes - one a unique form of hieroglyphs. Using these deciphered texts, this film recreates the ancient world of the Hittites, telling the story of what happened to them, and what caused an empire built to last forever to vanish so completely from history"

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Meanwhile, the next paragraph is a quote from the video link:

"Buried in this lost city is one of the greatest libraries of the ancient world. All the secrets of the mysterious Hittite empire were written in two codes - one a unique form of hieroglyphs. Using these deciphered texts, this film recreates the ancient world of the Hittites, telling the story of what happened to them, and what caused an empire built to last forever to vanish so completely from history"

So I'm curious: will you believe /anything/ in a YouTube video, or just the things you already want to believe? Because if it will jumpstart people's own critical thinking skills, I'll make a YouTube video for that. Then you might start doing that!

--Jaylemurph

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So I'm curious: will you believe /anything/ in a YouTube video, or just the things you already want to believe? Because if it will jumpstart people's own critical thinking skills, I'll make a YouTube video for that. Then you might start doing that!

--Jaylemurph

Most probably not.

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So I'm curious: will you believe /anything/ in a YouTube video, or just the things you already want to believe? Because if it will jumpstart people's own critical thinking skills, I'll make a YouTube video for that. Then you might start doing that!

--Jaylemurph

Most probably not.

Speak for yourself

72 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute http://www.youtube.c...statistics.html

Of the millions of you tube videos – it seems you have no problem condemning them all – including those you have not watched

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Speak for yourself

72 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute http://www.youtube.c...statistics.html

Of the millions of you tube videos – it seems you have no problem condemning them all – including those you have not watched

I never said all, just most. And if you want to vouch for the historical accuracy of most YouTube videos, you *are* a sucker.

--Jaylemurph

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I never said all, just most. And if you want to vouch for the historical accuracy of most YouTube videos, you *are* a sucker.

--Jaylemurph

Obviously - as I previously said:

Speak for yourself

72 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute http://www.youtube.c...statistics.html

Of the millions of you tube videos – it seems you have no problem condemning them all – including those you have not watched

it is unlikely anyone has watched 'most' you tube videos

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Posted (edited)

Hi AlnilamPhiSiriusly,

Nice to see you back, i enjoy your thread sections, i haven't been posting much as it is bank holiday in Britain and had relatives visiting!

I'm sorry that Jaylemurph doesn't comprehend our debate on midnight culmination of stars, please note i didn't dispute about the imaginery celestial sphere, however you don't seem to grasp that the vertical straight line here is the zenith or meridian of the imaginery celestial sphere, and at viewing location this is a vertical line, perhaps links will help:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith

http://astronomy.swi.../Upper Meridian

A star that is culminating, being the highest point it gets in the heavens at midnight has two points, the zenith as a straight vertical line relative to the observer on earth regarding the celestial sphere and the point on the horizon of due south. These points are important as a star that is beyound the vertical is no longer culminating at anywhere up to the zenith at midnight, for the star would be towards due north, and obviously a culminating star can't be below due south on the horizon in the northern hemisphere. There are many imaginery circles around the Earth that astronomers use all with a different angle across the globe, an example would be the obliquity of the ecliptic at 23* and a half degrees.

So the vertical line above your head is one point of the line you follow down to due south on the horizon, remember if you use a compass this will be out of true slightly. i like people observing the stars from the back garden, so i'll give a major midnight culminating star for New York on 10th May, being the fourth brightest star, at exact time point over your head and follow the straight line down to due south, along that line you will see you the midnight culmination of Arcturus, it gets no higher in the sky at midnight over New York

Edited by monk 56

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Posted (edited)

To get an idea of the pattern of the constellation Bootes where you will find Arcturus, please view link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcturus

Lets hope it isn't cloudy as the Prime Meridian repeats itself roughly every 15* degrees of longitude from 00*W00" and as this is slightly off of 73*W55' longitude of New York, Arcturus will nearly be culminating in London and Ottawa, this means these places are nearly true to local meridians that were used by many before 1884. I wish to get off this subject of a vertical line now as i have fully explained it, and wish to show the longitude of time regarding such things as the Gregorian Calendar.

Edited by monk 56

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Hi AlnilamPhiSiriusly,

Nice to see you back, i enjoy your thread sections, i haven't been posting much as it is bank holiday in Britain and had relatives visiting!

I'm sorry that Jaylemurph doesn't comprehend our debate on midnight culmination of stars, please note i didn't dispute about the imaginery celestial sphere, however you don't seem to grasp that the vertical straight line here is the zenith or meridian of the imaginery celestial sphere, and at viewing location this is a vertical line, perhaps links will help:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith

http://astronomy.swi.../Upper Meridian

A star that is culminating, being the highest point it gets in the heavens at midnight has two points, the zenith as a straight vertical line relative to the observer on earth regarding the celestial sphere and the point on the horizon of due south. These points are important as a star that is beyound the vertical is no longer culminating at anywhere up to the zenith at midnight, for the star would be towards due north, and obviously a culminating star can't be below due south on the horizon in the northern hemisphere. There are many imaginery circles around the Earth that astronomers use all with a different angle across the globe, an example would be the obliquity of the ecliptic at 23* and a half degrees.

So the vertical line above your head is one point of the line you follow down to due south on the horizon, remember if you use a compass this will be out of true slightly. i like people observing the stars from the back garden, so i'll give a major midnight culminating star for New York on 10th May, being the fourth brightest star, at exact time point over your head and follow the straight line down to due south, along that line you will see you the midnight culmination of Arcturus, it gets no higher in the sky at midnight over New York

To get an idea of the pattern of the constellation Bootes where you will find Arcturus, please view link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcturus

Lets hope it isn't cloudy as the Prime Meridian repeats itself roughly every 15* degrees of longitude from 00*W00" and as this is slightly off of 73*W55' longitude of New York, Arcturus will nearly be culminating in London and Ottawa, this means these places are nearly true to local meridians that were used by many before 1884. I wish to get off this subject of a vertical line now as i have fully explained it, and wish to show the longitude of time regarding such things as the Gregorian Calendar.

Hi monk 56, I'm not an astronomer but your explanation is clear to me - I also found a visual explanation online and viewed it a few times to get the idea

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Hi AlnilamPhiSiriusly,

Nice to see you back, i enjoy your thread sections, i haven't been posting much as it is bank holiday in Britain and had relatives visiting!

I'm sorry that Jaylemurph doesn't comprehend our debate on midnight culmination of stars, please note i didn't dispute about the imaginery celestial sphere, however you don't seem to grasp that the vertical straight line here is the zenith or meridian of the imaginery celestial sphere, and at viewing location this is a vertical line, perhaps links will help:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenith

http://astronomy.swi.../Upper Meridian

A star that is culminating, being the highest point it gets in the heavens at midnight has two points, the zenith as a straight vertical line relative to the observer on earth regarding the celestial sphere and the point on the horizon of due south. These points are important as a star that is beyound the vertical is no longer culminating at anywhere up to the zenith at midnight, for the star would be towards due north, and obviously a culminating star can't be below due south on the horizon in the northern hemisphere. There are many imaginery circles around the Earth that astronomers use all with a different angle across the globe, an example would be the obliquity of the ecliptic at 23* and a half degrees.

So the vertical line above your head is one point of the line you follow down to due south on the horizon, remember if you use a compass this will be out of true slightly. i like people observing the stars from the back garden, so i'll give a major midnight culminating star for New York on 10th May, being the fourth brightest star, at exact time point over your head and follow the straight line down to due south, along that line you will see you the midnight culmination of Arcturus, it gets no higher in the sky at midnight over New York

No, I won't. Not even if I try very hard. You don't see stars in New York at night. Rampant light pollution. One would think a master of math and science would be aware of that.

--Jaylemurph

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