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Ben Masada

The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

85 posts in this topic

What did I post that came across as not being serious or lost that mood? What mood?

I am simply stating facts.

Review your posts. You are too tight and hostile as any Jewish claim is concerned. The Moderator has been closing our posts for disrailment. This is not too far a step to closing threads.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada

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Judaism is a progressive way of life. Would you please quote to me where in the Jewish Scriptures an individual Messiah is implied? True that still many individual Jews believe in an individual Messiah; but this thrend is disappearing as we learn better.

Key phrase: "this trend is disappearing a we learn better."

Is it because the Jews have learned better or because the Jewish expectations were not fulfilled and thus the interpretations had to be dramatically revised to be able to maintain a belief in the Messianic prophecies (and thus Jewish tradition)?

I think the latter. Christians have, from day one, maintained that Jesus the Messiah resurrected and ascended to the right hand of the Father where He will wait until all nations have become Hos footstool. The Jews, all of whom believed the Messiah was imminent about the time of Octavian Augustus, must modify the interpretations to imply that an individual was not implied to both believe in the prophecies this far off and to ward off Christian arguments, IMO.

You are right; the People-Messiah. If you read Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; His anointed one." That's what the word Messiah means in the original in Hebrew; God's anointed one.

So the people deliver themselves? If so, why was their a sacrificial system? Also, who delivered the Jews from the kingdom of Babylon? The people-messiah or Cyrus the Persian (through God's planning)? The people-messiah you are thinking about is merely a way of saying God's chosen people.

In fact the people-messiah interpretation was likely the cause of the destruction of the second temple and the great dispersion of the Jews thereafter. The Pharisees and Sadducees believed that those who were obedient to the Torah were God's annointed ones. History shows that the two schools of thought were the reason why the Romans even occupied Jerusalem in the first place.

All covenants have been made by man with God and not by God with man. To claim the other way around is only the Jewish way to make the statement holy.

You do understand that you are denouncing Judaism in this statement, don't you? Who made the covenant first? Abraham or God? And who first intiated the Davidic Covenant? David or God?

Jesus has been dead for 2,000 years. The Messiah cannot die. He was part of the Messiah during the 33 years he lived here on earth. That's all.

Then you obviously don't understand the Jewish Scriptures. Even the early zealot followers believed in a messiah that would die. And Daniel 9 shows an anointed one that would be rejected by his own people. Enoch 1 showed a Messiah whose name was hidden from the beginning and who would be divine, Psalms 22 showed the messianic king suffering what would later dramatically match that of Jesus' crucifixion, Isaiah spoke of an anointed one dying for the sins of his people (and thus healing them), which distinguishes the people and the one who suffers for their salvation, and Micah speaks of the second temple being of greater glory than the first temple. BTW, how do the Jews explain the greater glory of the second temple?

Also, by the influx of first century BCE messianic writings, it is evident that most Jews back then believed that they were living in the era in which the Messiah would come.

Right! The Messiah did live long enough to enter the second Temple with the return of the Jewish People from exile in Babylon.

Honestly, I'm not buying your argument. Right after the exiled people rebuilt their temple, they were kicked out by the Persians for conspiracy and murder within the High Priesthood. Josephus sheds light on the dark history of those that returned from Babylon.

Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah, and he never resurrected. Paul himself confessed to his disciple Timothy that it was according to his - Paul's gospel - that Jesus was the Messiah and that he had resurrected. (2 Tim. 2:8) This happened about 35 years after Jesus had been gone.

I fin it ironic that you are accusing Paul if rewriting history while rewriting history yourself. Christians, the first and foremost followers of Jesus, have always maintained the anointing of Jesus as Messiah and His resurrection. You are trying to Judaize Jesus, and you know full well that is impossible.

If the Jews ever thought Jesus was compatible with their nationalistic religion and superstitious doctrines, they wouldn't have rejected Him, or at least continued to do so.

The Jews of then never asked the Romans to occupy their land. They made an agreement with the Romans in order to prevent a second war front to make it harder on them with the Greeks. The Romans had become too powerful and the Jews knew it. (I Mac. 12:16-18)

Ben

I'm talking about post-Maccabees. The Pharisees and Sadducees came AFTER the Jews won indepenence from the Greeks. I'll take a look at your source when I get a chance though.

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Review your posts. You are too tight and hostile as any Jewish claim is concerned. The Moderator has been closing our posts for disrailment. This is not too far a step to closing threads.

Ben

Tight and hostile, I am simply refruting your claims. It is a known fact, that more Jews are emigrating out of Israel than immigrating to Israel. And that Israel has begun a multinational campaign to attract more Jews to immigrate to Israel. I once posted a video here once where Israel attempted to bribe Iranian Jews to immigrate to Israel and failed.

Israel has always feared being a minority to the Palestinian Arabs which may entail conceding to a one state democracy solution in which Arab Palestinian would gain disproportionate political power being the majority.

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Before we get to specific problems with Catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin. About 44 years after his death, the Catholic institution dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick

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Key phrase: "this trend is disappearing a we learn better."

Right. Development comes with knowledge.

Is it because the Jews have learned better or because the Jewish expectations were not fulfilled and thus the interpretations had to be dramatically revised to be able to maintain a belief in the Messianic prophecies (and thus Jewish tradition)?

Yes, many of the unlearnt are changing their minds because their wrong expectation of an individual Messiah has not been fulfilled. Has your supposed "right" interpretation that Jesus was the Messiah been fulfilled? It has been two thousand years already and his return hasn't been fulfilled. Are you ready to wait another two thousand years? Be my guest.

I think the latter. Christians have, from day one, maintained that Jesus the Messiah resurrected and ascended to the right hand of the Father where He will wait until all nations have become Hos footstool.

Really! How come Apollos was not told about that? He used to speak about Jesus with accuracy and, in the synagogue of Ephesus, when he was invited to deliver the Sabbath sermon, about an hour, he didn't mention even once that Jesus was the Messiah or had resurrected. At the end of the services, Aquila and Priscilla, two Christians converted by Paul, invited Apollos for lunch, brainwashed him all through, and Apollos returned preaching that Jesus was the Messiah. Read Acts 18:24-28.

So the people deliver themselves? If so, why was their a sacrificial system? Also, who delivered the Jews from the kingdom of Babylon? The people-messiah or Cyrus the Persian (through God's planning)? The people-messiah you are thinking about is merely a way of saying God's chosen people.

You are right on this one. That the People-Messiah is God's chosen People is throughout the Scriptures: Torah, Neviim and Ketuvim. Moses delivered the People-Messiah from exile in Egypt as a Messianic leader himself. From Babylon, Cyrus only proclaimed that the People-Messiah could return to the Land of Israel if they wanted. That was from the second exile. From this last 3rd one, we had Herzl who inspired the People-Messiah with love for Zion. The bottom line is that they, the People, did it all all the times with the help of God.

In fact the people-messiah interpretation was likely the cause of the destruction of the second temple and the great dispersion of the Jews thereafter. The Pharisees and Sadducees believed that those who were obedient to the Torah were God's annointed ones. History shows that the two schools of thought were the reason why the Romans even occupied Jerusalem in the first place.

Right again. The Temple was destroyed because the People-Messiah made it too hard for the Romans to govern them. Do you know why? Because the People-Messiah can be governed by the Gentiles in the Diaspora but not in the Land of Israel. That's why they destroyed the Temple. So that the People-Messiah be gone to the Diaspora to be governed by the Gentiles.

You do understand that you are denouncing Judaism in this statement, don't you? Who made the covenant first? Abraham or God? And who first intiated the Davidic Covenant? David or God?

No, I am liberating Judaism from superstitions. Abraham made a Covenant with the Lord to worship Him only in a monotheistic way. Samuel, the Prophet initiated the Davidic Covenant when he anointed David as the King chosen by the Lord.

Then you obviously don't understand the Jewish Scriptures. Even the early zealot followers believed in a messiah that would die. And Daniel 9 shows an anointed one that would be rejected by his own people. Enoch 1 showed a Messiah whose name was hidden from the beginning and who would be divine, Psalms 22 showed the messianic king suffering what would later dramatically match that of Jesus' crucifixion, Isaiah spoke of an anointed one dying for the sins of his people (and thus healing them), which distinguishes the people and the one who suffers for their salvation, and Micah speaks of the second temple being of greater glory than the first temple. BTW, how do the Jews explain the greater glory of the second temple?

Jewish zealots were unlearned Jewish gangs. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. Read Jer. 31:35-37. Besides, it doesn't even make any sense at all. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation, if the Messiah must die? It is only obvious, that the Messiah is the People of Israel. You don't understand Daniel 9 with reference to the Messiah. If you want to learn what he means with his prophecy about the Messiah, let me know; I have the Jewish interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. Enoch has no book in the Scriptures. Psalm 22 has nothing to do with crucifixion and much less with Jesus. What are you implying, that Jesus was the only Jew crucified by the Romans? According to Josephus, the Romans crucified thousands of Jews only in the First Century. The whole book of Isaiah is about Judah and Jerusalem. (Isa. 1:1; 2:1) Nothing at all to do with the NT.

The greater glory of the Second Temple was due to the establishment of the New Covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one People. (Jer. 31:31; Eze. 37:22)

Also, by the influx of first century BCE messianic writings, it is evident that most Jews back then believed that they were living in the era in which the Messiah would come.

As you can see, they failed because of the fallacy to believe in an individual Messiah. You too will fail in your futile faith of a coming individual Messiah.

Honestly, I'm not buying your argument. Right after the exiled people rebuilt their temple, they were kicked out by the Persians for conspiracy and murder within the High Priesthood. Josephus sheds light on the dark history of those that returned from Babylon.

Honestly, neither am I even close to by yours. Who said that "Right after the exile the people rebuilt their temple?" They started, were stopped because of the Samaritans, and it took the next king Darius to continue with the construction. Let us say about or close to 100 years. It has been only 60 years since our return to rebuild our 3rd Commonwealth. Give us some more time. Besides, this time we have brought the Diaspora with us, so to speak. You know, because of politics, we still have to remove the Islamic abomination of desolation still on the Temple mount, which they didn't have at the time of Ezra.

I fin it ironic that you are accusing Paul if rewriting history while rewriting history yourself. Christians, the first and foremost followers of Jesus, have always maintained the anointing of Jesus as Messiah and His resurrection. You are trying to Judaize Jesus, and you know full well that is impossible.

Oh! I thought you knew that Jesus was a Jew. I don't need at all to judaize him. I think you have a lot to learn about Jesus. Unless, he was a Greek for you. The anointing of Jesus as Messiah and that he resurrected, I have proved to you that it was according to the gospel of Paul. Read 2 Tim. 2:8. If you don't believe it, you might as well reject the whole NT as wholy contradictory. This is just too embarrassing.

If the Jews ever thought Jesus was compatible with their nationalistic religion and superstitious doctrines, they wouldn't have rejected Him, or at least continued to do so.

We did not reject Jesus but what Paul declared about him.

I'm talking about post-Maccabees. The Pharisees and Sadducees came AFTER the Jews won indepenence from the Greeks. I'll take a look at your source when I get a chance though.

Please, do it. BTW, you should always do it. I don't want that my word be taken for it.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada

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Tight and hostile, I am simply refruting your claims. It is a known fact, that more Jews are emigrating out of Israel than immigrating to Israel. And that Israel has begun a multinational campaign to attract more Jews to immigrate to Israel. I once posted a video here once where Israel attempted to bribe Iranian Jews to immigrate to Israel and failed.

Israel has always feared being a minority to the Palestinian Arabs which may entail conceding to a one state democracy solution in which Arab Palestinian would gain disproportionate political power being the majority.

Even, if ever they gain disproportionate political power in the Land of Israel, they will never be able to govern Jews in the Land of Israel. Jews are very easy to be governed by Gentiles in the Diaspora, but NEVER in the Land of Israel. The Samaritans made it very clear in a letter to Persia when the Jews started rebuilding the Temple. (Ezra 4:11-16) The Greeks of Antiochus IV came with all their power and lost the war. The Romans came and lost more legions in the Land of Israel than throughout the Roman Empire put together. If you want to know what terrorism is, let Gentiles try to govern Jews in the Land of Israel.

Ben

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Interesting. It doesn't really unsettle me.

The book of Daniel was likely written slightly before the Maccabean Revolt. The Jews that wrote obviously thought that the Messiah would deliver the Jewish nation and that the obedient thing for the Jews to do until then would be to suffer with dignity. It was the author's belief that the Jewish nation should not take up arms. It didn't happen that way.

And later the Pharisees and Sadducees came about. They had their Civil War at 100 CE. Around this time, the book of Susanna, obviously written by a Sadducee, began circulating. The end result? The Sadducees won the high priesthood.

A bit later, the Pharisees appealed to Pompey to lead the Romans into Jerusalem, dethrone their king, kick the Sadducees out of the high priesthood, and install the Pharisees. Pompey desecrated the Most Holy Place, to which the Pharisees said was a curse from God for the toleration of the Sadducees in the high priesthood. Pompey installed Herod's father as king and placed a heavy tax on the Jewish Nation for that war. Judea had become a Roman province. Around this time, the book of Enoch was circulating. Evidently, the reader anticipated that the Messiah would crush the Romans and liberate the Jewish people. Instead, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and exiled the Jews in 70 CE.

What happened to the Messianic prophecies? You know, all the ones that the Jews say Jesus never fulfilled? Why are they still waiting on the Messiah? Why has their deliverance been so long overdue? If anything, the Jews had reason to be unsettled. Things did not go how they planned.

As a Jew, what is your response to these questions? I look forward to your answers.

Blue

hi... you probably know this but in the zohar a 700 year old prophecy said that from the new moon in sept 2012 the jewish messiah will return... strange how ancient prophecies seem to be pointing to this year... :unsure2:

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Even, if ever they gain disproportionate political power in the Land of Israel, they will never be able to govern Jews in the Land of Israel. Jews are very easy to be governed by Gentiles in the Diaspora, but NEVER in the Land of Israel. The Samaritans made it very clear in a letter to Persia when the Jews started rebuilding the Temple. (Ezra 4:11-16) The Greeks of Antiochus IV came with all their power and lost the war. The Romans came and lost more legions in the Land of Israel than throughout the Roman Empire put together. If you want to know what terrorism is, let Gentiles try to govern Jews in the Land of Israel.

Ben

You know what I have no real clue what you are rambling on about... just know this... when the Arab Israelis gain demographic majority... Israel can not pretend they dont exist and this means major reformations to the laws of Israel.

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hi... you probably know this but in the zohar a 700 year old prophecy said that from the new moon in sept 2012 the jewish messiah will return... strange how ancient prophecies seem to be pointing to this year... :unsure2:

I was not aware of that. Do you have a day?

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I was not aware of that. Do you have a day?

the new moon sept 2012... thats all I know... It will take a while but when you google you'll eventually get the text and original format dates, converted to gregorian.

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the new moon sept 2012... thats all I know... It will take a while but when you google you'll eventually get the text and original format dates, converted to gregorian.

I checked on it. The new moon happened on Sept. 15th. I wonder how the Hews that follow the Zohar interpret it now.

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I checked on it. The new moon happened on Sept. 15th. I wonder how the Hews that follow the Zohar interpret it now.

no idea... I think they believe he will come then, whether or not he will reveal himself at that time I dont know... I'm not up on Jewish prophecy... found it by accident.

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You know what I have no real clue what you are rambling on about... just know this... when the Arab Israelis gain demographic majority... Israel can not pretend they dont exist and this means major reformations to the laws of Israel.

Of course, you are not interested when the goods seem to be heavier on the side of the Jewish scale. The oil-rich Arabs caused the Palestinian condition of refugees and now you want the Jews to fix it? They should buy Barra California from Mexico and transfer the whole Palestinian population there. We are already seven million. We need more space to lodge our own people. If they wanna keep the struggle, let it be. Guess what? We are back to stay. Perhaps the Americans will fair better with them joining the "wet-backs" accross the boarders.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada

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Of course, you are not interested when the goods seem to be heavier on the side of the Jewish scale. The oil-rich Arabs caused the Palestinian condition of refugees and now you want the Jews to fix it? They should buy Barra California from Mexico and transfer the whole Palestinian population there. We are already seven million. We need more space to lodge our own people. If they wanna keep the struggle, let it be. Guess what? We are back to stay. Perhaps the Americans will fair better with them joining the "wet-backs" accross the boarders.

Ben

Israel created just as many millions of Arab Palestinian refugees by dispossessing them of land and home. The oil-rich Arabs didnt cause this, how could they have of? They desire the Arab Palestinians to be where the Arab Palestinians desire to be, in their proper homeland.

You are forgetting the Arab Palestinians never wanted to leave Palestine. The Arab Palestinians never wanted their land divided up between them and the Jews. The Arab Palestinians defied Jewish immigration thus the 1939 White Paper severely limiting Jewish immigration to a specific number was drawn up by Britain because of pressure from the Arab Palestinians and to because Britain needed Arab oil resources for the war effort.

To reinvent a popular Malcolm X quote, for the Arab Palestinians, "We didnt land on the Holocaust, the Holocaust landed on us."

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Israel created just as many millions of Arab Palestinian refugees by dispossessing them of land and home. The oil-rich Arabs didnt cause this, how could they have of? They desire the Arab Palestinians to be where the Arab Palestinians desire to be, in their proper homeland.

You are forgetting the Arab Palestinians never wanted to leave Palestine. The Arab Palestinians never wanted their land divided up between them and the Jews. The Arab Palestinians defied Jewish immigration thus the 1939 White Paper severely limiting Jewish immigration to a specific number was drawn up by Britain because of pressure from the Arab Palestinians and to because Britain needed Arab oil resources for the war effort.

To reinvent a popular Malcolm X quote, for the Arab Palestinians, "We didnt land on the Holocaust, the Holocaust landed on us."

Yeah, they didn't want to leave Israel but complied to do so as soon as the Arab countries opened up their war of agression in 1948. What a fiasco! they were crushed in return. Now, it is upon them to fix what they did to the Palestinians.

Ben

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Yeah, they didn't want to leave Israel but complied to do so as soon as the Arab countries opened up their war of agression in 1948. What a fiasco! they were crushed in return. Now, it is upon them to fix what they did to the Palestinians.

Ben

A civil war broke out from between December 1947 til May 15 1948, there was no international Arab armies involved at this time. The Jews were already grabbing land partitioned to the Arabs before the Arab nations attempted to intervene.

How do you explain Plan Dalet Ben? What is Plan Dalet to you or mean to you Ben?

Or Operation Balak, the illegal Czechoslovakia arms shipments to Israel between June 1947 to October 1949? Would you say that is anticipating war? Maybe anticipating an international conflict?

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A civil war broke out from between December 1947 til May 15 1948, there was no international Arab armies involved at this time. The Jews were already grabbing land partitioned to the Arabs before the Arab nations attempted to intervene.

How do you explain Plan Dalet Ben? What is Plan Dalet to you or mean to you Ben?

Or Operation Balak, the illegal Czechoslovakia arms shipments to Israel between June 1947 to October 1949? Would you say that is anticipating war? Maybe anticipating an international conflict?

The arms shipments from Czechoslovakia was not done before the threats from the Arabs to destroy the rising State of Israel. We had to get ready for all eventualities. Therefore, the anticipation of war was on the make from the Arab side. Brains don't fight without weapons. We needed them to defend ourselves. And we, efficiently, did it against all odds.

Ben

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The arms shipments from Czechoslovakia was not done before the threats from the Arabs to destroy the rising State of Israel. We had to get ready for all eventualities. Therefore, the anticipation of war was on the make from the Arab side. Brains don't fight without weapons. We needed them to defend ourselves. And we, efficiently, did it against all odds.

Ben

Against all odds, but that is all the popular myths the Zionists have built around the beginnings of the State of Israel. Like most nations, Israel has a bunch of propagandist myths that do not hold up to historic scrutiny.

Of all the armies involved in the Arab-Israeli war, only Jordan fielded 4,500-5,000 British-trained soldiers. The other nations didnt have British-trained soldiers. None of the Arab armies had been battle tested, very few Arabs served in Her Majesty's armies in WWII. Whereas the Haganah had 60,000 well-organized illegal army under Mandate law, 30,000-35,000 WWII veterans before the war started including a strike force, static defense force, and reservists.

Plan Dalet razed whole Arab Palestinians villages to the ground in concerted efforts by Haganah and the terrorists groups Stern gang and Irgun. When the State of Israel was proclaimed, there were already 200,000 Arab Palestinian refugees. The Jews were invading the lands partitioned by the UN to the Arab Palestinians. The Arab armies inadequetly intervened at this point. The capture of Haifa and the attack on Jaffa created an additional 145,000 refugees fleeing for their lives. By the end of May, there were already 370,000 Arab refugees fleeing from Jewish HELD territories.

The common propagandist myst is 700,000 Jews held their own against 27 million Arabs. Very untrue, the largest estimate forces representing the Arab armies stands at 23,500 at the start of the war. Of which included 4,500-5,000 British-trained soldiers from Jordan. Jordan by the way made a secret pact of non-aggression with the new State of Israel, in order to divide Palestine between themselves. However, while Jordan upheld the pact, Israel didnt. The lowest estimate of Jewish forces at the start of the war was given by David Ben-Gurion himself at 30,574, a more realistic figure would be 60,000-70,000 not including several thousand extremist fighters representing the Stern and Irgun.

At the start of the war,

the highest estimate of the combined Arab armies committed 23,500.

the lowest estimage of Jewish forces committed 30,574* (David Ben-Gurion*, but twice that is a much more realistic estimate)

By the end of the war,

the combined Arab armies committed 45,000-55,000 fighters to the war by its end.

Israel committed between 60,000-100,000 fighters to the war by its end.

So you see there was never a David vs Goliath conflict, the Jews always held the odds in their favor, supported by massive buildup in the shipments of arms from Britain, Czechloslavakia, etc. Often illegal shipments.

After the 1948 war, 85% of the Arab population fled from the lands held by Israel at that time (726,000 out of 859,000).

Of the total population of Arabs at the end of this war, 70% were refugees.

And what do you say about this "ironic" statistic, during this war Jews lost 4,558 soldiers and 1,150 civilians, yet more Israeli soldiers were killed in attacks on Arab Palestine than in the defense of Israel??? This is factually true. Yet we are taught about this miraclous birth of Israel in a David vs Goliath confrontation and how a few Jews held off Arab hordes. History tells another story altogether though.

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Against all odds, but that is all the popular myths the Zionists have built around the beginnings of the State of Israel. Like most nations, Israel has a bunch of propagandist myths that do not hold up to historic scrutiny.

Ah, stupidity reigns supreme doesn't it?

Of all the armies involved in the Arab-Israeli war, only Jordan fielded 4,500-5,000 British-trained soldiers. The other nations didnt have British-trained soldiers.

Oh no, of course not. I mean, it wasn't like the Egyptian Army was trained by the British or served with the British in WW2 now was it?

Whereas the Haganah had 60,000 well-organized illegal army under Mandate law, 30,000-35,000 WWII veterans before the war started including a strike force, static defense force, and reservists.

Would it be that some of them (like Moshe Dayan) had served in overseas theatres and resistance groups against the Nazis?

The common propagandist myst is 700,000 Jews held their own against 27 million Arabs.

Now what foul smelling orifice did you pull this little doozy from? Because this is the first time I have, or anyone else here for that matter, has seen such a figure as this.

I'm not surprised you'd pull random figures from nowhere. After all, what use are facts when I can make **** up that suits my argument?

This is factually true.

Is it now? Just like the other "facts" you've posted in the past?

History tells another story altogether though.

Maybe in your alternate universe where the moon is made of cheese and the Jews are actually evil people, but history is written by the winners. You can b**** and moan and whine about how unfair warfare is because your pet people lost something, but war is never fair in the first place.

Something you will learn once you leave kindergarten.

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Oh no, of course not. I mean, it wasn't like the Egyptian Army was trained by the British or served with the British in WW2 now was it?

On this point you have inadvertantly "mis-spoken" :D . Egyptian troops did not fight with British Eight Army, though Jewish troops did. After Nasser came to power, Egyptian army was stripped of any "Britishness" The Egyptian army that fought in Six Day and Yom Kippur war was Soviet equiped and trained.

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri
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Ah, stupidity reigns supreme doesn't it?

Oh no, of course not. I mean, it wasn't like the Egyptian Army was trained by the British or served with the British in WW2 now was it?

Would it be that some of them (like Moshe Dayan) had served in overseas theatres and resistance groups against the Nazis?

Now what foul smelling orifice did you pull this little doozy from? Because this is the first time I have, or anyone else here for that matter, has seen such a figure as this.

I'm not surprised you'd pull random figures from nowhere. After all, what use are facts when I can make **** up that suits my argument?

Is it now? Just like the other "facts" you've posted in the past?

Maybe in your alternate universe where the moon is made of cheese and the Jews are actually evil people, but history is written by the winners. You can b**** and moan and whine about how unfair warfare is because your pet people lost something, but war is never fair in the first place.

Something you will learn once you leave kindergarten.

You're post reads like kindergarten history 101.

Oh and that quote came from the War Diaries of David Ben-Gurion page 524, "700,000 Jews pitted against 27 million Arabs -- one against 40." He wrote it.

Do you even know who David Ben-Gurion is, MichaelW?

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Of course, you are not interested when the goods seem to be heavier on the side of the Jewish scale. The oil-rich Arabs caused the Palestinian condition of refugees and now you want the Jews to fix it? They should buy Barra California from Mexico and transfer the whole Palestinian population there. We are already seven million. We need more space to lodge our own people. If they wanna keep the struggle, let it be. Guess what? We are back to stay. Perhaps the Americans will fair better with them joining the "wet-backs" accross the boarders.

Ben

OUCH! "Wet-back"? Easy with the name calling Ben Masada. Please just debate the issue... :no:

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On this point you have inadvertantly "mis-spoken" :D . Egyptian troops did not fight with British Eight Army, though Jewish troops did. After Nasser came to power, Egyptian army was stripped of any "Britishness" The Egyptian army that fought in Six Day and Yom Kippur war was Soviet equiped and trained.

If I recall correctly, Ambush wasn't talking about the Six Day War or Yom Kippur or even the Suez War.

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Oh and that quote came from the War Diaries of David Ben-Gurion page 524, "700,000 Jews pitted against 27 million Arabs -- one against 40." He wrote it.

And you do know what figures these represented? The total populations of the countries involved?

Do you even know who David Ben-Gurion is, MichaelW?

As I said earlier, he was the first Prime Minister of Israel.

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