Shortages could force world to vegetarianism

[Bling]

another option will be Cannibalism

Now you're talking! LOL

[Alienated Being]

I don't think so, actually. I think that meat will not require the murder of animals in the future, however. We've already produced meat in the absence of, well... other meat.

[Ashotep]

I am a long standing vegetarian of 20yrs. I occasionally eat fish and we try to keep a few chickens for eggs.

I wouldn't advocate the world going totally vegetarian because, as others have pointed out, a wholistic agricultural system works best with an animal element.

However, in terms of diet I think most people eat entirely to much meat for their own good. We are now eating more meat than at any time in history - and it is no coincidence that we have the highest rates of cancer and heart disease in history. About 10% meat content of a diet is both healthy for the planet and the person.

Producing meat takes massive amounts of primary agricultural produce - which is fine if it is grass - but when it is soya or grain this represents a loss of 90% of the food value in the conversion to meat. This means that a vegetarian diet could theoretically feed 10x more people. Of course that is only the theoretical maximum and the reality is that most marginal land is only good for beef or mutton production so the real figure would be less.

So my solution would be - eat a healthy amount of ethically reared meat produced from grass rather than soya or grain.

By the way - I have a very good sense of humour

Br Cornelius

Cattle fed only grass is low in cholesterol. Its the way they are fed that makes beef bad for you. Edited August 27, 2012 by Hilander

[redhen]

One of the more serious arguments against these kinds of dire food shortage warnings is the distribution factor. The document in question http://www.siwi.org/...k_report_31.pdf acknowledges this. They report that 1 billion people on the planet are underfed, and 2 billion are overfed. Obviously there is an imbalance. But trying to rectify it would be just as hard as convincing people to become vegetarians.

The food distribution argment though does not address the coming water shortage. And if you think food rich governments cannot be convinced to transfer vaste quantities of their food supply to food poor countries, wait til you tell them they have to transfer/divert huge amounts of their water too.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room, that not many people want to talk about, is the exponential human population growth.

For those who pooh pooh these warnings from scientists about running into the wall of limited and finite resources; what do you believe to be the optimum human carrying capacity of the earth? Assuming: i) everyone lived and consumed like North Americans, and ii) everyone lived and consumed like East Indians?

p.s. my vegan example, Carl Lewis, still stands even if he did take some over the counter cold medication. Even if he didn't win 9 Olympic gold medals, I don't think you can say his vegan diet harmed his health in any way.

Edited August 27, 2012 by redhen

[cerberusxp]

LMAO Lemmings I tell ya lemmings they are the future! Tasty little scrumpets skewered and BBQ'd. I'll stick to V-8 when I need a veggie fix. My wife's sister and husband eat squirrel.

[cerberusxp]

First off there is NO coming water shortage. Any water can be purified and I mean any. There will be droughts and rainy spells it's been happening since time began. You can drink urine you know. Sea water for example is simple to either reverse osmosis or distill. Whoever came up with this water shortage stuff needs to be slapped several times.

On the veggie thing I really don't eat that many veggies except when I make pot roast. How many top athletes are there that are purely vegetarian? That means no eggs no cheese and no milk as well. In order to get all the right stuff from just veggies you need to be somewhere where you can get all of it in one place. A wealthy country or one with the right types of flora and fauna.

I've been a truck driver for 15 years and most of my diet comes from Wendy's, Micky D's, and truck stop buffets. I have been the same weight for the whole time. I'm 6' tall and 195#s perfect weight for my height, oh plus I'm a chain smoker and drink coffee practically nonstop all day. So am I an exception to the obese bad health rule? I have cravings and I indulge those cravings some are special some are not. Like I'll crave candy for say a week and then lay off it for a month or so. I'll crave high acid fruits such as pineapple and others for awhile and then lay off for a while.

I meant to quote Redhen here but it didn't take.

Just have to throw this in "SOYLENT GREEN ANYONE?"

Edited August 28, 2012 by cerberusxp

[omerta]

I think the world population would drastically drop if everyone turned vegan.. honestly....

It might just be me or a case of bad luck.. But every vegitarian I've ever met have turned out to be utter nutcases.

Seriously, they fly off the wall at the slightest hint of humour. (probably because of a lack of meat in their diet)

They hold grudges longer than normal people, They're far to serious, and they smell like cabbage.

The girl I have a thing for is vegan.

Why I'm attracted to crazy is beyond me.

[cerberusxp]

Its an example of extremist thinking to insist that one size fits all.

It is perfectly possible to live a very healthy vegetarian diet (I would maintain that most vegetarians are healthier than most carnivores), but it is my experience that most Vegans suffer for their beliefs and are not capable of applying the degree of discipline needed to maintain long term health (though it is possible).

However the Indians do very well on a mostly vegetarian diet and it has allowed them to support a much denser population than almost anywhere in the world. One central factor which makes it possible is the reverence for the Cow which provides a steady supply of dairy products.

Br Cornelius

Curry chicken anyone? Toasted cobra perhaps. Maharishis eat a lot of cheese. Albeit laced with diverse types of psychotropic plants. he he

Edited August 28, 2012 by cerberusxp

[notoverrated]

mars here i come.

[SPETSNAZ95]

There needs to be a 2 child maximum regulation to keep the population in check.

[Guest]

If I hear the reverse osmosis **** again I will scream - IT TAKES ELECTRICITY !!! That means we use a finite resource to make another finite resource. The result is that food prices go up - probably more than double.So all you are doing is substituting one problem for another.

Br Cornelius

[King Fluffs]

Hell naw.

I'll go out and eat grubs if I have to.

[redhen]

First off there is NO coming water shortage. Any water can be purified and I mean any. There will be droughts and rainy spells it's been happening since time began. You can drink urine you know. Sea water for example is simple to either reverse osmosis or distill. Whoever came up with this water shortage stuff needs to be slapped several times.

It's simple demographics;

"While the world's population tripled in the 20th century, the use of renewable water resources has grown six-fold. Within the next fifty years, the world population will increase by another 40 to 50 %. This population growth - coupled with industrialization and urbanization - will result in an increasing demand for water and will have serious consequences on the environment."

http://www.worldwate...index.php?id=25

[Mr Right Wing]

"There will not be enough water available on current croplands to produce food for the expected 9 billion population in 2050 if we follow current trends and changes towards diets common in western nations," the report by Malik Falkenmark and colleagues at the Stockholm International Water Institute (SIWI) said.

I'm outing the report as nonsense.

Firstly, as a quick check on Google Earth shows, most of the planet is unpopulated green wilderness. All that needs to be done is an increase in farmland for crops and animals. Problem solved.

Sweden is a perfect example. Sweden is twice the size of the UK but doesnt even have 10 million citizens. Its nation is vast areas of forest. They should try cutting down some of the trees so they can grow more crops and animals.

[Bildr]

"There will not be enough water available on current croplands to produce food for the expected 9 billion population in 2050 if we follow current trends and changes towards diets common in western nations," the report by Malik Falkenmark and colleagues at the Stockholm International Water Institute (SIWI) said.

I'm outing the report as nonsense.

Firstly, as a quick check on Google Earth shows, most of the planet is unpopulated green wilderness. All that needs to be done is an increase in farmland for crops and animals. Problem solved.

Sweden is a perfect example. Sweden is twice the size of the UK but doesnt even have 10 million citizens. Its nation is vast areas of forest. They should try cutting down some of the trees so they can grow more crops and animals.

So much narrow minded thinking. Never tought that the more we cut threes the more we are 'screwing' the natural balance and less threes on earth mean less O2 on earth(Ask Cornelius, we talked about this in another thread). I've read about the fact that if we want to survie as a specie we will have to never go further than to use 50% of the earth ressources, or else we will screw the balance... and right now we are about 40-45%.

[Sundew]

I have absolutely nothing against eating meat, in fact as we speak I have a pork roast on the Big Green Egg so my family can enjoy it for dinner. That said, I have changed my diet to a mostly plant based one in the last few months. That is about 80+% plants (fruits, vegetable, grains) to 20% or less of meat and most of that meat is seafood, fish, shrimp, but also chicken and a bit of pork. At some point I hope to get it to a 90/10% ratio. To be fair I exercise and have eliminated all bread and wheat based products and nearly all oils and fats except for that which naturally occurs in salmon and other "fatty" fish. Since the body needs fat to produce energy, this forces it to cannibalize the fat it already has. At some point more fat will have to be added back into the diet.

There are also things you do not get or do not get much of from a pure vegetarian diet like B12 and L-carnatine, so a totally meat free diet is probably not a good thing, and judging from our teeth, we should have an omnivorous diet.

Several things I have noticed: one I have lost about 25 pounds, and with the loss of 10 more will be at the proper weight for my height. The roll of fat that men get around their gut is disappearing, and I can fit in clothes I wore five years ago. Also if you suffer from any kind of bowel problems like IBS, constipation, etcetera, these virtually disappear. While this is anecdotal, these are common problems plaguing Americans, some Europeans and even Asians as they import our fatty diet to Asia. And, this is an easy solution anyone can try (if you have other health concerns see a doctor first!) to obesity or just being a bit overweight.

I don't know if humanity will be "forced" to follow a more vegetarian diet or not. I do think it would be better for overall human health if we had a more plant based diet. Plants contain many phyto-chemicals that the body needs. It would be a better use of food resources as well; when we eat the grain instead of the cow, and convert it to human proteins, it eliminates the middleman of the cow and is a more efficient use of our resource. Think of it as 10 pounds of grain making 1 pound of human vs 10 pounds of grain making 1 pound of cow making 1/10 pound of human. Oversimplified to be sure, but you get the idea.

But still, I hope I will always be able to enjoy the occasional steak or lobster, variety being the spice of life and all that.

[praetorian-legio XIII]

My brother is a one year older than me and has been a non-smoking, non-drinking, vegetarian for most of his adult life and based on his health compared to mine (a meat eating, beer drinking, cigarette smoking man) I find it hard to believe that not eating meat is a healthier alternative. He's now smaller, palier, weaker, and seems to get every bug that comes around. He's always seems "under the weather". I realize that most of the meat we have access to through our local grocery stores it not of the highest quality but still if our bodies were designed to eat only greens we would have a mouth full of molars.

I think that the healthiest diet consists of a good mix of everything, in moderation.

[Abramelin]

On the veggie thing I really don't eat that many veggies except when I make pot roast. How many top athletes are there that are purely vegetarian? That means no eggs no cheese and no milk as well.

It's bit different:

Vegetarianism (ie. not veganism) encompasses the practice of following plant-based diets (fruits, vegetables, etc.), with or without the inclusion of dairy products or eggs, and with the exclusion of meat (red meat, poultry, and seafood). Abstention from by-products of animal slaughter, such as animal-derived rennet and gelatin, may also be practiced.

Semi-vegetarian diets consist largely of vegetarian foods, but may include fish or poultry, or sometimes other meats on an infrequent basis. Those with diets containing fish or poultry may define "meat" only as mammalian flesh and may identify with vegetarianism.

* Ovo vegetarianism includes eggs but not dairy products.

* Lacto vegetarianism includes dairy products but not eggs.

* Ovo-lacto vegetarianism (or lacto-ovo vegetarianism) includes animal/dairy products such as eggs, milk, and honey.

* Sentient vegetarianism (also known as yogic or sattvic diet), a plant based diet which may also include dairy (not eggs) and honey, but excludes anything from the onion or leek family, red lentils, durian fruit, mushrooms, blue cheeses, fermented foods or sauces, alcoholic drinks and often also excludes coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, nutmeg or any other type of stimulant such as excess sharp spices.

* Buddhist vegetarianism (also known as su vegetarianism) excludes all animal products as well as vegetables in the allium family (which have the characteristic aroma of onion and garlic): onion, garlic, scallions, leeks, or shallots.

* Jain vegetarianism includes dairy but excludes eggs and honey, as well as root vegetables.

* Macrobiotic diets consist mostly of whole grains and beans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

This is also interesting:

The body can preserve stores of B12 for up to 30 years, and reuses the vitamin without destroying the substance. Clinical evidence has shown a deficiency of B12 in vegans and, to lesser degree, vegetarians.

So, when you start a vegan diet at around 30, then after 20 or 30 years you will get into problems because of a B!2 deficiency.

[mfrmboy]

I make really good black burgers. Much better than the store brand.

The good thing about chickens is you keep them in the backyard and they don't eat much compared what you get out of them.

When you say black burgers do you mean black bean or angus?

Chickens are awesome ! Mine just are not laying at the present. I think it's the weather. BUt when they do start laying look out ....I supply my neighbors.

[Grandpa Greenman]

1 cup dry black beans

1 egg

1/2 cup onion and green pepper

1/2 to 1 tablespoon cumin

1/2 tablespoon ground coriander

1/2 tablespoon tumeric

1 teaspoon steak sauce

1/3 cup plain bread crumbs

soak and cook beans until tender. In food processor, beans, egg, onion and pepper. mix spices and bread crumbs, add to mixture. form into burgers and grill or fry.

[Mikami]

Hmmmm seeing as all the healthy food is sooo expensive nowadays and im in missouri so growing things right now in this drought is kinda hard....

[questionmark]

Hmmmm seeing as all the healthy food is sooo expensive nowadays and im in missouri so growing things right now in this drought is kinda hard....

Guess nobody is saying: "It is so humid in Missouri" this year

[g00dfella]

bogus..they are growing meat in labs now.

[keithisco]

I think the only problem with animal protein is that we in the west are too squeamish to actually eat 90% of it.

Swans (of course in UK only the Monarch is allowed to eat these), Penguins, Squirrels, Hedgehog, for which Mrs Beaton had several recipes (not the penguin). Wild Boar (scrummy), Geese , duck, pheasant, Partridge, Pigeon (get rid of the "Flying Rats" once and for all!!) should all feature in a meat - eaters diet. Then we have fish, thousands of species not considered to be economic because they look "odd", or scary (Shark, Rays etc).

Chickens are so easy to raise (cheaper than growing Cows), and they produce excellent "Victuals".

I think the "running out of animal proteins" is just a scare, we need to be more inventive. Since moving to the Med Coast, my diet has changed considerably - lots of Fishy stuff, lots of Salad, and cured vegetables, not much red meat, but I feel much better in myself (physically, not philosophically), and have a whole lot more energy...

[keithisco]

bogus..they are growing meat in labs now.

Not enough to even make one burger yet... so not bogus!!