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Shortages could force world to vegetarianism

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There are multiple extremely reasonable explanations for why current food prices are going through the ceiling. Don't allow yourself to be dragged into CT explanations for why the man is taking your meat away.

Just look out into the real world to understand the multiple pressures on food supplies - starting with the price of oil.

Br Cornelius

where I want to add that it is not like they make food out of oil (yet), but take our supply system and you might end up asking yourself questions like: Why do tomatoes have to be flown in from Israel if they can grow here? Why do we fly in grapes from Chile? It is not like they can't be grown in California. And why does most every potato have to come from Idaho if it is a known fact that they grow about everywhere?

And the answer is simple: The labor in those places is so dirt cheap that it is worth it to spend thousands of tons of fuel to get them to the consumer, either because the planting is done industrial style (Idaho) or because a peon gets a few pennies a day.

With this we are hurting everybody and not least the environment.

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On the price of food.

Well, I've not really looked into the whole price of food personally.. I've relied on alternitave media to give me the facts on this.

1. We've hit peek oil. This means the price of everything has only 1 way to go and thats up. fertiliser, fuels, manufacturing cost, up, up, up.

2. Corporate greed. Dont get me started.. Just consider that when X or Y Corporation post billion dollar profits, that's money out of everyones pocket.

3. Government. Shutting down small (local growers) with needless legistation brought and paid for by the big Corporations.. $$ killing the opposition.

4. False scacity. Big Corporations prefer the illusion that food is scarce, so go out of their way to create it.. helps the bottom line.. $$

There's more to this list, unfortunately I'm going a little off topic..

mmm.

5. Vegetarians.. Threw them in to stay on topic because they consume more vegetables than everyone else..

Edited by Professor T

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Processed foods are killing people.

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Our bodies were designed to eat whole foods such as nuts, fruits, veggies.

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Our bodies were designed to eat whole foods such as nuts, fruits, veggies.

Processed foods are killing people

Nah, we are omnivores: we eat what you said, plus meat and/or carrion. If we were designed to eat plant/herb material only, our appendix would at least be a 100 times longer, and we would have bellies like a gorilla or a horse/cow, just because of the amount of gut needed to digest the food.

Plus the fact that we have eaten cooked and fried food for many millennia has changed our body. If we had continued eating everything raw, we would still have jaws like those of a Neanderthal or worse, like a gorilla's, with huge molars.

And cooking and frying is 'processing'.

Try to eat uncooked potatoes, and you will soon be sorry you tried.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Abramelin is right, human bodies are omnivore. It's part of the reason why we have survived so well, we can eat a wide variety of stuff.

And pretty much anything not straight up pick and eat is considered processing. Any type of cooking is processing, even chemical cooking in the case of foods like ceviche. If you shell peas before eating them, or strip corn off the cob. If you cut off the extra leaves and chop up a head of cabbage or broccoli that's processing too. Any type of home preservation like canning or drying is considered processing too.

Commercially manufactured foods often use processing methods that are often not too healthy for us. Or at least I don't think they are too healthy, I'm sure the subject is wide open for debate depending on what the product is.

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Our bodies were designed to eat whole foods such as nuts, fruits, veggies.

Our bodies were not designed.

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Processed foods are killing people.

Though some processing techniques are bad for human consumptions, processing foods is not. So this statement is not correct.

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There was an interesting Horizon program (BBC) concerning how our bodies are adapted to eat cooked foods. It showed that we needed to eat many times the amount of raw food as cooked food to get the same nutritional value from it. This mean't much longer time spent foraging for food. It postulated that the main innovation which allowed humans to develop sophisticated social structures was this freeing up of time which was allowed by cooking. As such we are adapted to eat "processed" foods - ie cooked foods.

However many modern processed foods are denuded of nutrients by the processes which are applied to them, and many modern processed foods are manipulated in such a way to make us crave them. Generally this type of processing leaves us in an obese state - but malnurished of the essential nutrients we need. This is made much worse by the intensive farming practices which enhance plant growth whilst leaving essential micronutrients entirely absent from our food.

Br Cornelius

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There is some land that is not economically viable for anything but raising ruminant animals that eat grass, like cows, sheep, and goats. The land is not arable or tillable for any sort of crops and is only good for grazing of some sort. Rocky hilly soil that can not be turned into crop land.

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I think what starchild1976 may have been meant when she said "processed foods are killing people" is that fact that so much of the processed foods we consume today are made up of chemicals and "unnatual" ingredients.. I've worked in a processed food industry, and I can tell you, some of the "additives" used are pretty strong & not the kind of stuff you'd want to eat on it's own. Anything with the word "immitation" in it's list of ingredients is fake/chemical. Cooking food is processing it, but most foods that has been "Processed" in their creation are in my opinion Dodgy..

Another thing to consider, shortages in food forcing people to Vegetarianism is the least of our concerns. Additives, things not normally consumed being added to Processed foods are something to worry about...

Edited by Professor T

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The truth is that there are too many humans on this planet and the Earth can not sustain even the current population. The only answer is world wide birth control. If the Earth's human population keeps increasing the only answer may be draconian laws similar to China's one child per couple policy. We have all ready reached the limit on what the Earth can sustain. The huge population increases of the 20th Century are directly attributable to cheap energy in the form of Oil to grow food. We have recently reached Peak Oil and and as oil becomes more and more expensive it will become prohibitively costly to grow food cheaply to feed hungry economically disadvantaged people. Oil is used in farming in the production of fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, and for tractors, planters and harvestors and hauling and processing foods, and hauling the food to market. Like my mom used to say to me when I was a kid "when it's gone it's gone!" We can do this the easy way or we can to it the painful way, either way - one day it's going to happen.

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When I said our bodies were designed to eat natural foods someone claimed our bodies weren't designed. Does your heart pump blood through your veins? Do your nerves and brain communicate? Do your liver and kidneys flush out toxins? Does your skin protect your organs? Do you sweat when you get too hot? Hearing with your ears? Seeing with your eyes? Etc. Etc. Etc. And I could go on and on. This seems like intelligent design to me. No, you think it was all thrown together like some kid's homework? Nah, I can't exactly prove we were designed, but there is plenty of evidence and I think without exact proof the door is open to intellectual individualism.. no head bashing needed. But I didn't come up with our bodies were designed without thinking for myself. However, without my even knowing it others had said the same thing without my knowing it. This is what I mean by not all knowledge is written down. Use common sense. Reverend William Paley in the late 1700's compared creation to watches and watch making. He explained a watch could not wind itself up or put itself together. He was a philosopher among other intellectual pursuits he engaged in. Some human beings can not accept a blind theory of creation where a world full of intelligent life created itself. Spirituality- not religion- is the reason. There is a truth deep within if you listen. I do believe in evolution-not the standard type taught in most universities- somewhat however- yet I believe we and this planet did evolve, but I also believe in a creator. This will offend nearly anyone who has no personal beliefs based on their own meditation. Why does this bother some folks? Intelligence has been misunderstood greatly in our culture. This may be why other countries are far ahead of us in science and math.Too many students don't want to embrace something stiff and rigid. Einstien did not believe there could be no creativity involved in science. Hardly anything would ever have been invented if science didn't leave room for original ideas. Albert believed in God. Most scientists do at the very least ponder god in some form at some point, because they have to keep up with the debate. . Leading astro physicist, Michio Kaku does not avoid the topic of god. Who believes someday we will be teleporting to space via an elevator type device? Science is working on it thanks to quantum mechanics. Beleive me, as time goes by quantum psychics will prove a whole lot of what we thought explained physics and how the world works and we're finding out quickly now that what we once thought was impossible may not be. Michio Kaku backs up the fact that parallel universes are being studied rather the possibility is being studied by science. If science can accept the possibility of parallel universes why not intelligent design? Are you really certain what we are going to discover?

Our bodies-going back to the first discussion do require the foods we first ate in the beginning. Is that better? And through evolution-if you want to go there- we can perhaps survive on processed foods, but many illnesses are being created due to the lack of what's needed.

We could argue this some more, but no one can prove there is no god. And I can not 100 percent prove there is. I see evidence anyway and having a brain of my own there is nothing in science stating I can not believe god started the big bang have you.

Edited by starchild1976

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Oops.. the silly girl did her research.

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And oops while she can prove science is embracing seemingly bizarre ideals she can not prove her own beliefs which makes her pretty much like everyone else. Oops I did it again!

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When I said our bodies were designed to eat natural foods someone claimed our bodies weren't designed. Does your heart pump blood through your veins? Do your nerves and brain communicate? Do your liver and kidneys flush out toxins? Does your skin protect your organs? Do you sweat when you get too hot? Hearing with your ears? Seeing with your eyes? Etc. Etc. Etc. And I could go on and on. This seems like intelligent design to me. No, you think it was all thrown together like some kid's homework? Nah, I can't exactly prove we were designed, but there is plenty of evidence and I think without exact proof the door is open to intellectual individualism.. no head bashing needed. But I didn't come up with our bodies were designed without thinking for myself. However, without my even knowing it others had said the same thing without my knowing it. This is what I mean by not all knowledge is written down. Use common sense. Reverend William Paley in the late 1700's compared creation to watches and watch making. He explained a watch could not wind itself up or put itself together. He was a philosopher among other intellectual pursuits he engaged in. Some human beings can not accept a blind theory of creation where a world full of intelligent life created itself. Spirituality- not religion- is the reason. There is a truth deep within if you listen. I do believe in evolution-not the standard type taught in most universities- somewhat however- yet I believe we and this planet did evolve, but I also believe in a creator. This will offend nearly anyone who has no personal beliefs based on their own meditation. Why does this bother some folks? Intelligence has been misunderstood greatly in our culture. This may be why other countries are far ahead of us in science and math.Too many students don't want to embrace something stiff and rigid. Einstien did not believe there could be no creativity involved in science. Hardly anything would ever have been invented if science didn't leave room for original ideas. Albert believed in God. Most scientists do at the very least ponder god in some form at some point, because they have to keep up with the debate. . Leading astro physicist, Michio Kaku does not avoid the topic of god. Who believes someday we will be teleporting to space via an elevator type device? Science is working on it thanks to quantum mechanics. Beleive me, as time goes by quantum psychics will prove a whole lot of what we thought explained physics and how the world works and we're finding out quickly now that what we once thought was impossible may not be. Michio Kaku backs up the fact that parallel universes are being studied rather the possibility is being studied by science. If science can accept the possibility of parallel universes why not intelligent design? Are you really certain what we are going to discover?

you are a fence sitter, you say that you believe in evolution and creationsim, yet in an earlier post you imply that we were created without saying anything about evolution. and you try to use false logic from a reverend who lived in the 1700's to disprove evolution, even though you say you believe in evolution. you have completely contradicted yourself.

We could argue this some more, but no one can prove there is no god. And I can not 100 percent prove there is. I see evidence anyway and having a brain of my own there is nothing in science stating I can not believe god started the big bang have you.

you cant even prove 1% that god exists, so stop making crap up.

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And oops while she can prove science is embracing seemingly bizarre ideals she can not prove her own beliefs which makes her pretty much like everyone else. Oops I did it again!

Can you explain to me, using Intelligent Design, what an appendix is doing in our body?

And can you explain to me, again using Intelligent Design, what getting goose bumps when it's cold is for?

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Ah oh, Trouble is a brewing..

What's this got to do with food shortages..

It looks like the vegans won this round, I'm out of here..

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Can you explain to me, using Intelligent Design, what an appendix is doing in our body?

And can you explain to me, again using Intelligent Design, what getting goose bumps when it's cold is for?

.

If I may add:

Can you explain why humans have inter-vertebral disks suitable for walking on four limbs that cause trouble walking on two? Or are you going to tell me that the designer did that on an early Monday and was not up to the task?

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Ah oh, Trouble is a brewing..

What's this got to do with food shortages..

It looks like the vegans won this round, I'm out of here..

The vegans are too busy to find the vitamins and proteins they lack in their diets.

And, btw, this was also NOT about or meant for vegans.

FYI: evolution made us into what we are now: omnivores.

Not "Intelligent Design".

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The worlds population was half of what it is now in the early 1960's. The house is getting crowded because the kids and grandkids didn't leave home.

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Here in the middle of cattle country, I already have almost cut out beef from my diet- just out of economic practicality. It makes me feel as if I'm being overtly self-indulgent when I pick up a package of prime steaks, and I usually put it back down.Also, because of the cattle production, dairys, ethanol plants and drought in the area, our water supplies are dwindling. It's getting expensive to even grow vegetables at home.

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just wanted to answer the question about the usefullness of the apendix and the goose bumps:

- to the first question:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071008102334.htm

- to the chill question:

when you're cold, the body tries to make a thicker layer of trapped air around your body to hold your body heat

Everything happens for a reason! please ask more challenging questions because these are realllly EZ!

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just wanted to answer the question about the usefullness of the apendix and the goose bumps:

- to the first question:

http://www.scienceda...71008102334.htm

- to the chill question:

when you're cold, the body tries to make a thicker layer of trapped air around your body to hold your body heat

Everything happens for a reason! please ask more challenging questions because these are realllly EZ!

Ehm, ye: what about those intervertebral disks designed for critters with 4 feet?

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hahahah.... don't tell me you are a darwinist?

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