More NASA UFO's?

[JimOberg]

I refute it totally.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[zoser]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

There are many ways to refute things. My way is to point to the plethora of cases reported by folk from all walks of life through the last 70 years from all corners of the planet.

Far more powerful than debating how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. In other words getting into finer and finer detail until no one really knows what the truth is.

Let the multitude of cases speak for themselves.

So if you manage to prove that one witness is incredible. I'll find you ten more. Then another ten, and another until you start to think for a minute where these testimonies actually come from and why are they occurring.

[booNyzarC]

There are many ways to refute things. My way is to point to the plethora of cases reported by folk from all walks of life through the last 70 years from all corners of the planet.

Far more powerful than debating how many angels can dance on the end of a pin. In other words getting into finer and finer detail until no one really knows what the truth is.

Let the multitude of cases speak for themselves.

So if you manage to prove that one witness is incredible. I'll find you ten more. Then another ten, and another until you start to think for a minute where these testimonies actually come from and why are they occurring.

What you don't seem to understand here zoser is that the veracity of each claim must be tested before it can be given any weight. You can't just throw a thousand questionable accounts at the problem and victoriously proclaim that it is solved simply because you have that many accounts. If you can't verify even one of them, they each just become another unsubstantiated story.

This is why your method will never succeed in uncovering the truth of the matter.

Could some of these 'tantalizing testimonies' be representative of the truth? Sure, I suppose it is possible, but it isn't iron clad proof of anything without substantial backing and confirmation. A story alone is not enough, and neither are a hundred or a thousand stories.

You've been shown cases which demonstrate what a flagrant fallacy it is to rely solely on testimony. You've been shown hoaxes that had the witnesses fully convinced that they were seeing something otherworldly. In light of such demonstrations it is downright preposterous that you continue to cling to testimonies as if they are the Holy Grail.

[JimOberg]

So if you manage to prove that one witness is incredible. I'll find you ten more. Then another ten, and another until you start to think for a minute where these testimonies actually come from and why are they occurring.

Fine. Let's start the process by you admitting that I've managed to disprove the Afanasyev story.

Will you do that?

[zoser]

Fine. Let's start the process by you admitting that I've managed to disprove the Afanasyev story.

Will you do that?

It's pretty clear what he saw:

"It followed us during half of our orbit. We observed it on the light side. When we entered the shadow side, it disappeared completely. It was an engineered structure, made from some type of metal approximately 40 meters long with inner hulls. The object was narrow here and wider here. And inside there were openings. Some places had projections like small wings. The object stayed very close to us. We photographed it, and our photos showed it to be 23-to-28 meters away."

http://www.alien-news.org/2011/12/cosmonaut-victor-afanasyev-confirming.html

Unfortunately the only testimony from the man himself is not in English. The above looks like a segment of the transcript. Here is what he saw in 1979:

[JimOberg]

It's pretty clear what he saw:

... Here is what he saw in 1979:

Are you sure about the date? Maybe somebody just made it up at random and figured viewers like you would never know the difference. Were they right in their assessment of your intellectual skills?

[bmk1245]

[...]

Unfortunately the only testimony from the man himself is not in English. The above looks like a segment of the transcript. Here is what he saw in 1979:

[...]

With his first flight in Dec 2, 1990, seeing UFO in 1979 while in orbit makes sense.

Here is his interview (in Russian), where he says 40 cm again.

Worth to note that "he is not completely sure, if americans landed on the Moon, after reading material on the internet". Guess astronauts (cosmonauts) can be credulous as well.

Edit to add: I would not be surprised if Bill McDonald simply made up that "UFO picture", and not from Afanasyev's words.

Edited October 27, 2012 by bmk1245

[DONTEATUS]

Jim its like this theres people in here that there wheels on there buss go round and round & then theres the ones that are just not getting it !

ANd then theres the ones that just read ,wait think,and then move on to Plan -B

Keep up the good work !

[zoser]

With his first flight in Dec 2, 1990, seeing UFO in 1979 while in orbit makes sense.

Here is his interview (in Russian), where he says 40 cm again.

Worth to note that "he is not completely sure, if americans landed on the Moon, after reading material on the internet". Guess astronauts (cosmonauts) can be credulous as well.

Edit to add: I would not be surprised if Bill McDonald simply made up that "UFO picture", and not from Afanasyev's words.

Now your behaving like a true skeptic by resorting to condescension. Loosing the argument and now that's the only strategy left. I've made all the points I intend to and I have no intention of trying to argue with someone who continually accuses trained people of lying or hallucinating.

The evidence is absolutely overwhelming that astronauts and cosmonauts have in the past and still do see craft not of our own. Only an idiot would call these people liers

Edited October 27, 2012 by zoser

[zoser]

Jim its like this theres people in here that there wheels on there buss go round and round & then theres the ones that are just not getting it !

ANd then theres the ones that just read ,wait think,and then move on to Plan -B

Keep up the good work !

When Don gives his support that speaks volumes.

[booNyzarC]

Now your behaving like a true skeptic by resorting to condescension. Loosing the argument and now that's the only strategy left. I've made all the points I intend to and I have no intention of trying to argue with someone who continually accuses trained people of lying or hallucinating.

The evidence is absolutely overwhelming that astronauts and cosmonauts have in the past and still do see craft not of our own. Only an idiot would call these people liers

Wait... after being shown how and why you were wrong, you declare your own victory in the debate and then exit stage left?

That's hilarious.

I tell you zoser, if your goal was to make yourself look like a fool, you have achieved it. Well done man!

[badeskov]

Now your behaving like a true skeptic by resorting to condescension. Loosing the argument and now that's the only strategy left. I've made all the points I intend to and I have no intention of trying to argue with someone who continually accuses trained people of lying or hallucinating.

The evidence is absolutely overwhelming that astronauts and cosmonauts have in the past and still do see craft not of our own. Only an idiot would call these people liers

Seriously, Zoser, what are you spicing up your evening tea with?

You promote a video where it is claimed that Afanasyev saw something in space in 1979 and when bmk correctly points out that Afanasyev's first space flight was in 1990, some 11 years later you find it condescending?! And how is bmk losing the argument?! I would say that it is you that have no argument left, as bmk pretty much pulled that away from under you.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited for typo.

Edited October 27, 2012 by badeskov

[zoser]

Wait... after being shown how and why you were wrong, you declare your own victory in the debate and then exit stage left?

That's hilarious.

I tell you zoser, if your goal was to make yourself look like a fool, you have achieved it. Well done man!

No body is leaving yet Boon. In fact we've only just begun. Just got a few little clips for Jim and the boys to explain. Care to have a go?

Here's the first:

[zoser]

No body is leaving yet Boon. In fact we've only just begun. Just got a few little clips for Jim and the boys to explain. Care to have a go?

Here's the first:

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[/media]

Never mind at quibbling over dates. Try explaining that. let's see if your fine detailed analysis can pick the bones out of that one.

[zoser]

Here's another:

[media=]

[/media]

I figured that it maybe is a little too easy just to call people liars so I thought I would try a different approach.

Edited October 27, 2012 by zoser

[zoser]

Seriously, Zoser, what are you spicing up your evening tea with?

You promote a video where it is claimed that Afanasyev saw something in space in 1979 and when bmk correctly points out that Afanasyev's first space flight was in 1990, some 11 years later you find it condescending?! And how is bmk losing the argument?! I would say that it is you that have no argument left, as bmk pretty much pulled that away from under you.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited for typo.

Are we talking about the same guy? I never promoted a video for the simple reason that it was not in English. If you had kept up with the thread you would have picked that up. Please take the trouble to read the posts carefully. Now is it the same Cosmonaut or not?

[badeskov]

No body is leaving yet Boon. In fact we've only just begun. Just got a few little clips for Jim and the boys to explain. Care to have a go?

Here's the first:

<snipped video>

That has been the topic of discussion numerous times here, and it is still the same: RCS thruster firing and an ice particle (or some such) is caught in it. You can even see the flash when it fires.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[badeskov]

Are we talking about the same guy? I never promoted a video for the simple reason that it was not in English. If you had kept up with the thread you would have picked that up. Please take the trouble to read the posts carefully. Now is it the same Cosmonaut or not?

I apologize, that was clumsily formulated by me. You promoted a transcript of a video, or rather, a short excerpt thereof. That does not, however, change the fact that you promoted something that was demonstrably wrong and then you go on to claim victory when that is shown to you. Seriously? And I do follow this thread in all it's misery.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[zoser]

I apologize, that was clumsily formulated by me. You promoted a transcript of a video, or rather, a short excerpt thereof. That does not, however, change the fact that you promoted something that was demonstrably wrong and then you go on to claim victory when that is shown to you. Seriously? And I do follow this thread in all it's misery.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Here's another.

The piece de resistance. It's an amazing that we have the benefit of this technology and that our brothers at NASA are willing to share it with us all. Do you agree?

[zoser]

That has been the topic of discussion numerous times here, and it is still the same: RCS thruster firing and an ice particle (or some such) is caught in it. You can even see the flash when it fires.

Cheers,

Badeskov

What an absolute joke.

Edited October 27, 2012 by zoser

[TheMacGuffin]

Wouldn't it be better to bravely (and perhaps even .. knowledgeably) refute his interpretations?

I for one, can't wait to see that..

It's pretty obvious what we're looking at in many of these videos, and that there are no conventional explanations for many of these luminous, high-speed objects out in space.

We have been detecting UFOs out there in space for as long as we have had the means to detect them, long before there could have been any satellites or spacecraft from earth.

That's just a fact.

[TheMacGuffin]

Much of the time, I have no idea what he's even trying to say and probably he doesn't either.

[TheMacGuffin]

By the way, I said many times that I thought the original video in this thread looked fake to me, but that I sure don't think they all are.

Not only is it wrong to claim that NO astronauts have seen UFOs out in space, I bet that they ALL have at one time or another, no matter whether they talk about them or not.

[booNyzarC]

What an absolute joke.

Can you tell us how and why this explanation is such "an absolute joke" zoser?

[TheMacGuffin]

Can you tell us how and why this explanation is such "an absolute joke" zoser?

By the way, Oberg told a few fibs about Gordo Cooper, and that's putting it very charitably. I don't like that.

He just must think that he can say anything and no one is ever going to check it.