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Bling

Not just Jesus - other virgin births

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Many christians believe that jesus was born of a virgin, Mary. I grew up believing this was an amazing and unique miracle exclusive to the christian faith, however I have since learnt it has been a story used many times before.

Taken from this website: http://www.lawofattr...-virgin-births/

'A lot of us like to think that the Bible is the original, absolute, inviolate word of God. But that comes into question when we realize that many of the biblical stories occur in other, older religions.

According to academia, there are at least 32 stories of other virgin births in ancient cultures of bygone eras. The legends of the surrounding pagan cultures were so influential in the first century that the Early Church was forced to imitate and incorporate them to have their ‘new’ Christian religion accepted.'

Here's the historical facts:

Horus

The Legend of Horus is one of the most ancient myths in Egypt, and it was central to the ancient Egyptian state religion. He was worshipped three thousand years before Jesus and his worship lasted into the common era. The followers of Horus invaded Egypt in pre-dynastic history (before 3000 B.C.E.).

He is often shown as an infant cradled by his mother Isis. He avenged his father’s murder, and became recognized as the God of civil order and justice.

Both were conceived of a virgin.

  1. Both were the “only begotten son” of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
  2. Horus’s mother was Meri, Jesus’s mother was Mary.
  3. Horus’s foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus’s foster father was Joseph.
  4. Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
  5. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
  6. Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
  7. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
  8. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
  9. Both births were announced by angels (this is not the same as number 7).
  10. Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
  11. Horus was visited at birth by “three solar deities” and Jesus was visited by “three wise men”.
  12. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
  13. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to “arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.”
  14. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
  15. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
  16. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
  17. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
  18. Both were baptized at age 30.
  19. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
  20. Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
  21. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
  22. Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
  23. Both have 12 disciples.
  24. Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
  25. Horus “stilled the sea by his power.” Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, “Peace, be still.”
  26. Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
  27. Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, “house of Anu”).
  28. Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
  29. Both were crucified.
  30. Both were crucified next to two thieves.
  31. Both were buried in a tomb.
  32. Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back “three days” later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
  33. Both had their resurrection announced by women.
  34. Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
  35. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means “anointed one”).
  36. Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
  37. Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
  38. Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd’s crook.
  39. Horus was born in Anu (“the place of bread”) and Jesus was born in Bethlehem (“the house of bread”).
  40. “The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: ‘Out of Egypt have I called my son.’”
  41. Both were transfigured on the mount.
  42. The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of “Madonna and Child.”
  43. Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called “Immaculate”.
  44. Horus says: “Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power.” And Jesus says: “Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once.”
  45. Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).

Buddha

Buddha was born of a virgin name Maya, or Mary. His birthday was celebrated on December 25. He was visited by wise men who acknowledged his divinity. The life of Buddha was sought by King Bimbasara, who feared that some day the child would endanger his throne. At the age of twelve, Buddha excelled the learned men of the temple in knowledge and wisdom. His ancestry was traced back to Maha Sammata, the first monarch in the world. (Jesus’ ancestry is traced back to Adam, the first man in the world.) Buddha was transfigured on a mountain top. His form was illumined by as aura of bright light. (Jesus was likewise transfigured on a mountain top. “And his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.” After the completion of his earthly mission, Buddha ascended bodily to the celestial realms.

Osiris, the father of Horus, was another virgin-born god of ancient Egypt. His Sufferings, Death, and Resurrection were celebrated in an annual mystery-play at Abydos, on about March 25, an approximation of the Vernal Equinox, i.e. Easter. The Pharaoh Amenhotep III, of the seventeenth dynasty, was hailed as the son of the virgin Mutemua. His birth is pictured on the inner walls of the Temple of Amen in Thebes.

Mithra, a Persian sun-god, was virgin-born, in a cave, on December 25. His earliest worshippers were shepherds, and he was accompanied in his travels by twelve companions. The Mithraists kept the sabbath day holy and celebrated the Eucharist by eating wafers embellished with a cross. The great Mithraic festivals were the Birth (Christmas) and the Resurrection (Easter).

Quetzalcoatl. The Spaniards, on arriving in Mexico, were surprised to find the Aztecs had a story of virgin birth, too. See Kingsborough’s Mexican Antiquities, vol. vi, p. 176, where it is said “an ambassador was sent from heaven on an embassy to a Virgin of Tulan, called Chimalman . . . announcing that it was the will of the God that she should conceive a son; and having delivered her the message he rose and left the house; and as soon as he had left it she conceived a son, without connection with man, who was called Quetzalcoatl, who they say is the god of air.” Also, like Jesus, he was tempted and fasted for forty days. He is shown in the Borgian Ms., on a cross, with nail marks on his hands and feet. He is depicted as a man of sable hue. After being crucified, he rose from the dead and went into the East. The word Quetzalcoatlotopitzin means “our well-beloved son.” The Mexicans were expecting his Second Coming when the Spaniards invaded the country in the sixteenth century.

Other examples of virgin born Gods:

Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki

Savior Dionysus was born of the virgin Semele.

The old Teutonic goddess Hertha was a virgin impregnated by the heavenly Spirit and bore a son.

Scandinavian Frigga was impregnated by the All-Father Odin and bore Balder, the healer and savior of mankind.

Interesting eh?

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Many christians believe that jesus was born of a virgin, Mary. I grew up believing this was an amazing and unique miracle exclusive to the christian faith, however I have since learnt it has been a story used many times before.

Taken from this website: http://www.lawofattr...-virgin-births/

'A lot of us like to think that the Bible is the original, absolute, inviolate word of God. But that comes into question when we realize that many of the biblical stories occur in other, older religions.

According to academia, there are at least 32 stories of other virgin births in ancient cultures of bygone eras. The legends of the surrounding pagan cultures were so influential in the first century that the Early Church was forced to imitate and incorporate them to have their ‘new’ Christian religion accepted.'

Here's the historical facts:

Horus

The Legend of Horus is one of the most ancient myths in Egypt, and it was central to the ancient Egyptian state religion. He was worshipped three thousand years before Jesus and his worship lasted into the common era. The followers of Horus invaded Egypt in pre-dynastic history (before 3000 B.C.E.).

He is often shown as an infant cradled by his mother Isis. He avenged his father’s murder, and became recognized as the God of civil order and justice.

Both were conceived of a virgin.

  1. Both were the “only begotten son” of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
  2. Horus’s mother was Meri, Jesus’s mother was Mary.
  3. Horus’s foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus’s foster father was Joseph.
  4. Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
  5. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
  6. Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
  7. Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
  8. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
  9. Both births were announced by angels (this is not the same as number 7).
  10. Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
  11. Horus was visited at birth by “three solar deities” and Jesus was visited by “three wise men”.
  12. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
  13. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to “arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.”
  14. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
  15. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
  16. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
  17. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
  18. Both were baptized at age 30.
  19. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
  20. Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
  21. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
  22. Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
  23. Both have 12 disciples.
  24. Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
  25. Horus “stilled the sea by his power.” Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, “Peace, be still.”
  26. Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
  27. Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, “house of Anu”).
  28. Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
  29. Both were crucified.
  30. Both were crucified next to two thieves.
  31. Both were buried in a tomb.
  32. Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back “three days” later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
  33. Both had their resurrection announced by women.
  34. Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
  35. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means “anointed one”).
  36. Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
  37. Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
  38. Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd’s crook.
  39. Horus was born in Anu (“the place of bread”) and Jesus was born in Bethlehem (“the house of bread”).
  40. “The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: ‘Out of Egypt have I called my son.’”
  41. Both were transfigured on the mount.
  42. The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of “Madonna and Child.”
  43. Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called “Immaculate”.
  44. Horus says: “Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power.” And Jesus says: “Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once.”
  45. Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).

Buddha

Buddha was born of a virgin name Maya, or Mary. His birthday was celebrated on December 25. He was visited by wise men who acknowledged his divinity. The life of Buddha was sought by King Bimbasara, who feared that some day the child would endanger his throne. At the age of twelve, Buddha excelled the learned men of the temple in knowledge and wisdom. His ancestry was traced back to Maha Sammata, the first monarch in the world. (Jesus’ ancestry is traced back to Adam, the first man in the world.) Buddha was transfigured on a mountain top. His form was illumined by as aura of bright light. (Jesus was likewise transfigured on a mountain top. “And his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.” After the completion of his earthly mission, Buddha ascended bodily to the celestial realms.

Osiris, the father of Horus, was another virgin-born god of ancient Egypt. His Sufferings, Death, and Resurrection were celebrated in an annual mystery-play at Abydos, on about March 25, an approximation of the Vernal Equinox, i.e. Easter. The Pharaoh Amenhotep III, of the seventeenth dynasty, was hailed as the son of the virgin Mutemua. His birth is pictured on the inner walls of the Temple of Amen in Thebes.

Mithra, a Persian sun-god, was virgin-born, in a cave, on December 25. His earliest worshippers were shepherds, and he was accompanied in his travels by twelve companions. The Mithraists kept the sabbath day holy and celebrated the Eucharist by eating wafers embellished with a cross. The great Mithraic festivals were the Birth (Christmas) and the Resurrection (Easter).

Quetzalcoatl. The Spaniards, on arriving in Mexico, were surprised to find the Aztecs had a story of virgin birth, too. See Kingsborough’s Mexican Antiquities, vol. vi, p. 176, where it is said “an ambassador was sent from heaven on an embassy to a Virgin of Tulan, called Chimalman . . . announcing that it was the will of the God that she should conceive a son; and having delivered her the message he rose and left the house; and as soon as he had left it she conceived a son, without connection with man, who was called Quetzalcoatl, who they say is the god of air.” Also, like Jesus, he was tempted and fasted for forty days. He is shown in the Borgian Ms., on a cross, with nail marks on his hands and feet. He is depicted as a man of sable hue. After being crucified, he rose from the dead and went into the East. The word Quetzalcoatlotopitzin means “our well-beloved son.” The Mexicans were expecting his Second Coming when the Spaniards invaded the country in the sixteenth century.

Other examples of virgin born Gods:

Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki

Savior Dionysus was born of the virgin Semele.

The old Teutonic goddess Hertha was a virgin impregnated by the heavenly Spirit and bore a son.

Scandinavian Frigga was impregnated by the All-Father Odin and bore Balder, the healer and savior of mankind.

Interesting eh?

shhh! this stuff really messes with them......lol

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Seem to remember this exact same topic being posted a few months back :)

IMO the reason for the similarities is either:

1. It's taking an older story because it sounds impressive

OR (the one I think)

2. It's adopting a story because it makes the new faith more accessible and believable to those following an older one.

I think the main thing that is important is that the whole virgin birth thing is not the main message of Christianity. As such, the fact that it is not true does not detract from the validity of the faith's real message.

Finally, I take issue with points 5, 8, 14, 15, 19 and 31.

5. Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).

The most common version (AFAIK) is that Jesus was born in a stable or house. As such, this is a rather poor comparison, focusing on a fringe belief.

8. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.

Firstly, these are different dates. As there are only a finite number of days in a year, you will easily find two deities with birth dates close together. It is therefore of little significance in its own right.

More importantly, the actual date of Jesus' birth is believed to be in the spring. The date was moved to deliberately match older beliefs.

14. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.

As the special ritual in question applies to all Jews, it is hardly significant that a Jewish boy underwent said ritual.

15. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.

As it is a coming of age ritual, they would be a certain age. 12 was the age a boy became a man in many cultures for a long time.

19. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.

So they were both baptised by a person who later became named for baptising a deity. Is that really surprising? Unless there is some link between the names Anup and John, I would say not.

31. Both were buried in a tomb.

Sorry, but umm... yes? Anyone of influence would be. Most of the Kings and Queens of England have been. Does that mean their lives are copied from this story? I think not.

Other than that, a very well thought out post. Some new similarities I hadn't come across which is always interesting so thank you.

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Interesting read.

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It Should Be Obvious By Now That Various Religions Copied One Another ..

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Yes, an interesting read! :yes:

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It's interesting, but it makes my head spin.

I'm not a Christian, but I was raised a Muslim, so I believe in Jesus.

No point for life to have to be confusing.

I'll be on the lookout for truth.

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To play devil's advocate, I'd love to know the approximate years these religious stories came about.

Perhaps Jesus was reincarnated as each of these gods and this proves his omnipresence rather than the fact that he's fantasy.

:D

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Immaculate conception = fooling around behind your fella's back

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shhh! this stuff really messes with them......lol

No it doesn't. We tell you what "this stuff" is called then point you toward modern scholarship.

Congratulations you have discovered the Christ myth and if you believe the OP then you have become a Christ myther. You might not want to stay one for long after you read the following.

Volney and Dupuis were the first modern scholars to claim a connection between Jesus and previous solar deities. However, later scholarship showed that various details required for these connections were flawed due to the lack of available accurate information on which to base the theories. In particular, the December 25 date for Jesus' birth was found to have not been part of the original oral tradition but rather an imperial decree made in 334 CE.

In fact, before this decree there was a great deal of debate regarding exactly when Jesus had been born. Some held it was January 6 (the actual birthday of Osiris, while others using Luke's reference to shepherds keeping watch over their flocks at night stated that meant that it had to be somewhere between March and November. Tertullian and Hippolytus of Rome held for March 25, while Clement of Alexandria argued for May 20.

However, despite the evidence of the December 25 date being added several centuries after external evidence for the Gospel birth story of Jesus existing (c. 180), this, along with other controversial and debated claims (such as the conception of Horus as outlined in the Myth of Osiris and Isis), is still presented by some supporters of the Christ Myth theory as valid evidence such as demonstrated by the works of Acharya S and the movie Zeitgeist (2007).

http://en.wikipedia....eity_connection

Edited by Chasingtherabbit

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Perhaps, Immaculate Conception = Conception by ET?

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One last question about the Jesus myth - why are there no additional virgin births for 2,000 years after Christ? We have 32 ancient cultures relating to it.

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Interesting read. Does the bible not say that the jews were in Egypt for thousands of years? It would be interesting to know if some of the older jewish prophecy was based off of information that was obtained in Egypt.

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One last question about the Jesus myth - why are there no additional virgin births for 2,000 years after Christ? We have 32 ancient cultures relating to it.

Which part of the story about Jesus are you referring to that you say is a myth? You seem quite sure of yourself for really not knowing. Heck maybe you have answered your own question. Although over two thousand years have passed, there has not been a significant event such as the birth of Christ Jesus that is worth mentioning.

Edited by Ugly1

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No it doesn't. We tell you what "this stuff" is called then point you toward modern scholarship.

Congratulations you have discovered the Christ myth and if you believe the OP then you have become a Christ myther. You might not want to stay one for long after you read the following.

http://en.wikipedia....eity_connection

To be fair, and if anyone is interested, they can read what Volney and Dupuis wrote about and make their own conclusion.

http://www.masseiana.org/Dupuis/origin_of_all_religious_worship.htm#IX An Explanation of the fable, in which the Sun is worshipped under the name of christ. ~ Dupuis

http://www.masseiana.org/volney.htm#XIIIb XIII. Christianity, or the Allegorical Worship of the Sun,

under the cabalistical names of Chrish-en, or Christ, and

Ye-sus or Jesus. ~ Volney

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Hi Bling and Setton,

There is some inaccuracy in the above, not all deities were associated with 25th December and in the myths of Horus his birth wasn't on 21st December, he was born during the Epagomental days of the Egyptian Calendar, this was five days added to the 12th month, this sounds good until you realize that the 12th month and year start was in the Summer, link below:-

http://www.ancienteg....co.uk/nut.html

It was Emperor Aurelian who ruled between 270-275 hoping to unite all different religions that were in the Roman Empire that made 25th December a standard day to worship different gods, that inaccurate links needs to value, please scroll down link below to religious reform:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurelian

Which is a confusing point, why is Sol Invictus on 25th December and not on 21st December being the Winter Solstice??

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Sol_Invictus

Originally when the Julian Calendar was made on 1st January 0045BC, the Winter Solstice was aligned to 25th December, and when the church got together at the First Council of Nicaea in Iznik, Turkey they found that it had slipped to 21st December, obviously the Vernal Equinox had slipped as well, roughly the Julian Calender gains 3 days in every 400 years, and this made it difficult to calcalate Easter.

http://en.wikipedia....uncil_of_Nicaea

Rather than correct the error, which wasn't that difficult, which was leaving out 3 leap days every 400 years, like King Canute they just stopped the date to 21st March, (which applied to the Winter Solstice in December as well,) and as you know Easter uses the first full Moon after the Vernal Equinox to calcalate Easter.

By 1582 the real Vernal Equinox was falling on 11th March, so ten days were taken out, but not for the full length of the Julian Calendar, the adjustment was only made up to 325AD and the First Council of Nicaea.

http://en.wikipedia....gorian_Calendar

I know this is a small point but is why Sol Invictus doesn't correspond to the Winter Solstice.

Edited by monk 56

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In the 380's a Christian woman named Egeria made a pilgrimage to Jesusalem and kept a journal, where she noted that Christmas was celebrated on 6th January, Epiphany.

http://www.aquinasan...ass/article/119

I doubt that we will ever know the birthday of Christ, as i find even 6th January dubious and open to manipulation by hermetic philosophers, with Sirius alignments. The Jews use previous sunset as start of the day, so this is 5th January at sunset, if i had been one of The Magi i could follow Sirius from Persia with the method of the Sun setting as Sirius rises, to Bethlehem, however i would have to know date of birth before i set out on my journey.

The factor that we don't know year of birth isn't applicable, Sirius rises as Sun sets for many years on 5th January during this era in Bethlehem, only becoming out of synch by precession much later, so on link below showing astronomy graph, don't read any thing in the year chosen, it happened every year!

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4079&mode=view

Don't read too much in this as 6th January could have been a date chosen early on because of the Sirius alignment.

Edited by monk 56

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It Should Be Obvious By Now That Various Religions Copied One Another ..

belief obscures many obvious things..............

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Another excellent topic Bling. Very well noted. I've always been fascinated by these stories. It does make one wonder... whic one came first? We may never know, but it's interesting to ponder. In any case, it's clear that Jesus wasn't the first... I'd personally put my money on Osiris out of the ones you mentioned, but then, the dates suggest that rather strongly I'd say.

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Here's the historical facts:

I'm not a Christian, but the dissemination of overly exaggerated claims of similarities between the Christian Myth and Paganism has prompted me to contribute.

Both Horus and Jesus were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)

Kinda sorta true, except that "only begotten son" is very clearly Christian language, and there is nothing outside of this list to suggest that the Egyptians used the same phrase.

Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary

Horus's mother was Isis. I have never seen anything to suggest that Isis was also known as "Meri", so I'm going to go ahead and say that fun fact is false.

Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph

There is no scholarly reference to a 'Jo-Seph' as Horus's foster father, and the only reference to foster father attributes that role to Seb, also known as Geb, the God of the Earth and consort to Nut, the God of the Sky. Another fallacy.

Both foster fathers were of royal descent.

... Maybe? I can't find a reference to Geb as royalty. And there is no ancient reference to a 'Jo-Seph', so no points to the originator of the list.

Both were born in a cave.

Jesus Christ was said to have been born in a stable, laid in a manger. Horus, on the other hand, was born in the marshlands of the Nile Delta, in a place called Chemmet near Buto. Another fallacy.

Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.

I cannot find any reference to Horus's birth being announced by an angel. Also, angels weren't part of the Egyptian mythos, so yet again another fallacy.

Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).

I think this list was ripped directly from Zeitgeist, which basically made up a bunch of stuff. I can't find any scholarly references to Horus being heralded by any star whatsoever. Another fallacy.

Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.

There is no reference to Horus's date of birth being Dec. 21. This list is literally pulled out of thin air.

http://conspiracies....cles/zeitgeist/

Here is a link that contends that Zeitgeist, the basis for all of these claims, is entirely, without question, 100% made up. Believe whatever you want, but I'd like to make this point:

This entire list is lies - and worse still, this entire list is the exact same crime irreligious people accuse religious people of committing: Believing in something fallacious simply because it validates a view point. There is no connection of the sort that this list claims between Jesus Christ and any other God of antiquity. There is a relationship between the Judeo-Christian mythology and various myths in antiquity - example: The old Mesopotamian creation story involves humans in a garden of the gods, a serpent, and fruit. The ancient Jews were also exiled to Mesopotamia at one point, and there is at least some reason to believe that they may have borrowed the ideas of another culture. BUT, the difference there-in is that you can actually read the old Mesopotamian myths actually draw a connection, whereas with this list, there is nothing but nonsense and assertions fabricated by sorry individuals who are only looking to validate what they believe by whatever means necessary, rather than being intellectually honest and formulating a view around actual evidence grounded in solid facts. Mon dieu, I can hardly believe that a day came where I would be defending Christianity while at the same time chastising the secular community for believing whatever is convenient to their preconceived notions.

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There are some things Christianity has in common with other religions but thats to be expected from it's long history. As Christianity grew it incorporated many elements of other religions in order to make itself more acceptable to new converts who were unwilling to let go of their pagan traditions. Thats one of the reasons why there are so many saints in the Catholic Church, many of them are based upon older deities that people refused to let go of. Another more spiritual reason is the Devil, the enemy of the church, has constantly set out to create counterfit versions of many of God's wonders in order to confuse people and lead them away from God.

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There are some things Christianity has in common with other religions but thats to be expected from it's long history. As Christianity grew it incorporated many elements of other religions in order to make itself more acceptable to new converts who were unwilling to let go of their pagan traditions. Thats one of the reasons why there are so many saints in the Catholic Church, many of them are based upon older deities that people refused to let go of. Another more spiritual reason is the Devil, the enemy of the church, has constantly set out to create counterfit versions of many of God's wonders in order to confuse people and lead them away from God.

We all know about Christianity picking up traditions and characters from other religions; but I take it you have no evidence of the Devil bit you mentioned? I mean, not even the Bible talks about what you just said. Where does it come from, I wonder?

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I can see where the devil bit would of came from but it doesn't include the devil himself it shows other things like kings horns and the beast changing of dates and times. (sorta like the whole jesus born in winter when it was spring deal if he was even real in the first place)

It's something like Daniel chapter 7. You read though it has all kinds of stuff according to it that would go along those lines.

It's a stretch a very very long stretch but it's there.

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Hi CHURCHAND DESTROY,

Yes Zeitgeist doesn't work with a number of factors, but even governments can believe a lot of things, thus why i would want complete separation of belief and state, Zeitgeist isn't original, indeed most of this can be found in the books of Edward Carpenter who strangely was involved with many esoteric secret societies and was one of the original people that started the U.K. Labour Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carpenter

His book was called "Pagan and Christian Creeds, links below:-

http://www.edwardcarpenter.net/ecpcc3.htm

http://www.edwardcarpenter.net//ecpcc2.htm

To fully understand who Edward Carpenter was involved with, i have left an old thread of mine on link, however as it is now old, not all the links that i make on thread now work, there are three pages, change at bottom:-

http://www.mauricefernandez.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1940&start=0

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Edward Carpenter was involved in the establishment of the U.K. Labour Party and involved with members of the Fabian Society, Golden Dawn and many others, his associates included Annie Besant, mentioned on link below:-

http://comasonic.net/

I'm not knocking but explaining, however i'm not keen on group below being associated with the politics of Westminster!

http://en.wikipedia....w_Welcome_Lodge

Edited by monk 56

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