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The Puzzler

Great Pyramid not built by Khufu?

593 posts in this topic

Does anyone know much about this Inventory Stele?

Actually, we have the testament of Pharaoh Khufu himself that he only did repair work on the Great Pyramid. The Inventory Stele, found in 1857 by Auguste Mariette just to the east of the Pyramid, dates to about 1500 B.C., but according to Maspero and other experts, shows evidence of having been copied from a far older stele contemporaneous with the Fourth Dynasty. In the Stele, Khufu himself tells of his discoveries made while clearing away the sands from the Pyramid and Sphinx. He dedicated the account to Isis, who he called the "Mistress of the Western Mountain," "Mistress of the Pyramid," and identified the Pyramid itself as the "House of Isis."

The Stele describes how Pharaoh Khufu, "gave to her (Isis) an offering anew, and he built again (to restore, renovate, reconstruct) her temple of stone." From there, the Pharaoh inspected the Sphinx, according to the text, and related the story of how in his time both the monument and a nearby sycamore tree had been struck by lightning. The bolt had knocked off part of the headdress of the Sphinx, which Khufu carefully restored. Egyptologist Selim Hassan, who dug out the Sphinx from the surrounding sands in the 1930's, observed there is indeed evidence that portions of the Sphinx were damaged by lightning, and the mark of ancient repairs is very apparent. Also, he noted, sycamore trees once grew to the south of the monument, which had been dated to a great age.

The Stele then ends with the story of how Khufu built small pyramids for himself and his daughters, wife and family, next to the Great Pyramid.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_2_4.htm

In addition, it should be noted that the Inventory Stele (26th dynasty) informs us that Khufu repaired the headdress of the Sphinx after it had been damaged by lightning. If this is true (and there is no particular reason to doubt it), this would negate the theory that Khufu’s son Khafre built the Sphinx, and it would throw up serious questions about the orthodox dating of the rest of the Giza site. Moreover, the Inventory Stele fails to make any claim that Khufu built the Sphinx or the Great Pyramid, and these surprising omissions offer considerable support to my adoption hypothesis.

http://www.eridu.co.uk/Author/egypt/giza.html

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Does anyone know much about this Inventory Stele?

Actually, we have the testament of Pharaoh Khufu himself that he only did repair work on the Great Pyramid. The Inventory Stele, found in 1857 by Auguste Mariette just to the east of the Pyramid, dates to about 1500 B.C., but according to Maspero and other experts, shows evidence of having been copied from a far older stele contemporaneous with the Fourth Dynasty. In the Stele, Khufu himself tells of his discoveries made while clearing away the sands from the Pyramid and Sphinx. He dedicated the account to Isis, who he called the "Mistress of the Western Mountain," "Mistress of the Pyramid," and identified the Pyramid itself as the "House of Isis."

The Stele describes how Pharaoh Khufu, "gave to her (Isis) an offering anew, and he built again (to restore, renovate, reconstruct) her temple of stone." From there, the Pharaoh inspected the Sphinx, according to the text, and related the story of how in his time both the monument and a nearby sycamore tree had been struck by lightning. The bolt had knocked off part of the headdress of the Sphinx, which Khufu carefully restored. Egyptologist Selim Hassan, who dug out the Sphinx from the surrounding sands in the 1930's, observed there is indeed evidence that portions of the Sphinx were damaged by lightning, and the mark of ancient repairs is very apparent. Also, he noted, sycamore trees once grew to the south of the monument, which had been dated to a great age.

The Stele then ends with the story of how Khufu built small pyramids for himself and his daughters, wife and family, next to the Great Pyramid.

http://www.world-mys...com/mpl_2_4.htm

In addition, it should be noted that the Inventory Stele (26th dynasty) informs us that Khufu repaired the headdress of the Sphinx after it had been damaged by lightning. If this is true (and there is no particular reason to doubt it), this would negate the theory that Khufu’s son Khafre built the Sphinx, and it would throw up serious questions about the orthodox dating of the rest of the Giza site. Moreover, the Inventory Stele fails to make any claim that Khufu built the Sphinx or the Great Pyramid, and these surprising omissions offer considerable support to my adoption hypothesis.

http://www.eridu.co....egypt/giza.html

I have long said that the Inventory Stele presents a serious challenge to the current Egyptological hypotheses. I of course can't say whether or not it's true, but given it's essentially the only textual evidence we have, period, with pertinence to the construction of the Great Pyramid, I'm inclined to give it audience.

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Great pyramid was not built by the AE or khufu and is a way older structure by the looks of it.Obvious proofs pointing towards it the lack of heiroglyphs in it and the staggering difference between it and all the other pyramids built by other pharoans that followed.I had once suggested that Khufu probably intruded and put his cartouche if Vyse didn't do it himself and probably repaired the pyramid on atleast two other blogs regarding this topic hence the mortar between the blocks radiocarbondates from around Khufu's time.There is not much objective proof that Khufu built the pyramids but still it is treated as accepted fact beyond any questioning.

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here's a thread started by kmt on the inventory stela

http://www.unexplain...pic=169892&st=0

Thanks, I should have done a search I guess. I wonder why this wouldn't be so...

The Inventory Stele, found in 1857 by Auguste Mariette just to the east of the Pyramid, dates to about 1500 B.C., but according to Maspero and other experts, shows evidence of having been copied from a far older stele contemporaneous with the Fourth Dynasty.

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Great pyramid was not built by the AE or khufu and is a way older structure by the looks of it.Obvious proofs pointing towards it the lack of heiroglyphs in it and the staggering difference between it and all the other pyramids built by other pharoans that followed.I had once suggested that Khufu probably intruded and put his cartouche if Vyse didn't do it himself and probably repaired the pyramid on atleast two other blogs regarding this topic hence the mortar between the blocks radiocarbondates from around Khufu's time.There is not much objective proof that Khufu built the pyramids but still it is treated as accepted fact beyond any questioning.

Okay.

Then please explain the Egyptian glyphs that were spotted by the robotic probe sent into the "air shafts" that come out of the Queen's Chamber.

Did Khufu hire a midget? Did you know these shafts are only about 8 by 81/2 ]inches?

It's obvious to any thinking person that all the Egyptian pyramids were constructed by (ahem) the Egyptians.

Any other thought on the subject is either the folly of pure ignorance or brain maxturbation.

Harte

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Did Khufu hire a midget?

There were midgets/dwarfs in Egypt. :rolleyes:

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bes_ptah.jpg

Left one.

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Does anyone know much about this Inventory Stele?

Actually, we have the testament of Pharaoh Khufu himself that he only did repair work on the Great Pyramid. The Inventory Stele, found in 1857 by Auguste Mariette just to the east of the Pyramid, dates to about 1500 B.C., but according to Maspero and other experts, shows evidence of having been copied from a far older stele contemporaneous with the Fourth Dynasty. In the Stele, Khufu himself tells of his discoveries made while clearing away the sands from the Pyramid and Sphinx. He dedicated the account to Isis, who he called the "Mistress of the Western Mountain," "Mistress of the Pyramid," and identified the Pyramid itself as the "House of Isis."

The Stele describes how Pharaoh Khufu, "gave to her (Isis) an offering anew, and he built again (to restore, renovate, reconstruct) her temple of stone." From there, the Pharaoh inspected the Sphinx, according to the text, and related the story of how in his time both the monument and a nearby sycamore tree had been struck by lightning. The bolt had knocked off part of the headdress of the Sphinx, which Khufu carefully restored. Egyptologist Selim Hassan, who dug out the Sphinx from the surrounding sands in the 1930's, observed there is indeed evidence that portions of the Sphinx were damaged by lightning, and the mark of ancient repairs is very apparent. Also, he noted, sycamore trees once grew to the south of the monument, which had been dated to a great age.

The Stele then ends with the story of how Khufu built small pyramids for himself and his daughters, wife and family, next to the Great Pyramid.

http://www.world-mys...com/mpl_2_4.htm

In addition, it should be noted that the Inventory Stele (26th dynasty) informs us that Khufu repaired the headdress of the Sphinx after it had been damaged by lightning. If this is true (and there is no particular reason to doubt it), this would negate the theory that Khufu’s son Khafre built the Sphinx, and it would throw up serious questions about the orthodox dating of the rest of the Giza site. Moreover, the Inventory Stele fails to make any claim that Khufu built the Sphinx or the Great Pyramid, and these surprising omissions offer considerable support to my adoption hypothesis.

http://www.eridu.co....egypt/giza.html

This is what I have always believed. Also the video I posted here a couple of days ago proposes a similar argument. That the GP was repaired around the time of Khufu. In writings that I have which date back to the 1970's it states that Imhotep carried out repairs directed by King Zoser.

Edited by zoser

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There were midgets/dwarfs in Egypt. :rolleyes:

This is true, and according to my sources also giants. It is from this time (circa 7000BC) that we inherited a false set genetics but that's another story.

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Okay.

Then please explain the Egyptian glyphs that were spotted by the robotic probe sent into the "air shafts" that come out of the Queen's Chamber.

Do you know what those glyphs say and are there any others that are the same they can be compared to, that prove they're Egyptian ?

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This is true, and according to my sources also giants. It is from this time (circa 7000BC) that we inherited a false set genetics but that's another story.

Can you developed that?

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Thanks, I should have done a search I guess. I wonder why this wouldn't be so...

The Inventory Stele, found in 1857 by Auguste Mariette just to the east of the Pyramid, dates to about 1500 B.C., but according to Maspero and other experts, shows evidence of having been copied from a far older stele contemporaneous with the Fourth Dynasty.

I must admit I myself am not very good at the search function, which is why I try not to chide others for failing to do so. That was one of a series of short-lived discussions I launched to refute some of the stunningly poor information the zany Zecharia Sitchin presented in his book The Stairway to Heaven. It was fun stuff to write.

The Inventory Stela is the darling of numerous fringe authors and quite a few posters of the same bent who've graced our halls at UM (and by this I am not including you, Puzzler). Actually dating it to 1500 BCE is many centuries off, as there is consensus in the Egyptological and wider academic community that it dates to the Saite Period (beginning 664 BCE), otherwise known as Dynasty 26. It was a brief resurgence of political autonomy for the Egyptians in the Late Period—after the Egyptians tossed off the yoke of Assyria and just before the Persians came along and mucked up everything for them. Giza had been more or less abandoned and neglected for a long time, and in the rebirth of their nationalistic zeal, the Egyptians showered it with attention and veneration.

Here is one of the most modern translations of the Inventory Stela (Christiane Zivie-Coche 2002: 85-87):

Live the Horus Medjed, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Cheops,

given life. He found the house of Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, next to

the house of Haurun, northwest of the house of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau.

He (re)built the pyramid of the king's daughter Henutsen beside this

temple. He made an inventory, carved on a stela, for his mother Isis, the

mother of the god, Hathor, Mistress of the Sky. He restored for her the

divine offerings and (re)built her temple in stone, that which he found

in ruins being renewed, and the gods in their place.

The temenos of Haurun-Harmakhis is south of the temple domain of

Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, and north of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau. The

writings of the temple of Harmakhis were brought to make the inventory

(bis) of this diving being (?) of the great [. . .] his effigy, its casing

entirely covered with designs [. . .] he made [. . .] which is in gilded stone

of seven cubits [. . .] in the temenos of Harmakhis, in conformity with this

model that is carved [. . .]. He set up an offering table for the vases [. . .].

May he endure. May he live forever and ever, his face turned toward the

east.

So when one reads proper translations of this small monument, it's not really referring to the Great Pyramid at all. It's referring to one of the small queens' pyramids along the east side of the Great Pyramid. The Inventory Stela is mostly about the temple to Isis that had been erected next to this little pyramid, including a list of offerings supplied to the temple. That this temple existed is not in question: it is archaeologically attested. However, it did not exist in Khufu's time. It cannot be dated to any earlier than the Third Intermediate Period (beginning 1064 BCE). That period itself was centuries before Dynasty 26, so the temple to Isis must have seemed very old even by the Saite Period. However, it certainly was not erected in Khufu's time. In fact, when the Isis temple was built next to the little queen's pyramid in the Third Intermediate Period, part a large private mastaba to the immediate east had to be dismantled to accommodate the temple structure. Obviously the mastaba, which dates to Dynasty 4, precedes the Isis temple in chronology.

There isn't really anything about the Inventory Stela that would confirm it as an historical document, as we might understand the term. It was a monument of veneration, both to a very ancient king and to a very important goddess. Close examination of the stela reveals all sorts of historical anachronisms, not the least of which are several deities who cannot even be attested in Dynasty 4 (e.g., Osiris, Isis, Horemakhet [Harmakhis], Haurun). It was common for people who commissioned important monuments (kings included) to hint that they came from ancient records they had found, but that was only to lend importance and legitimacy to the monument. It doesn't mean historical veracity is evident.

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bes_ptah.jpg

Left one.

Come now, L, Bes was a god so you can't count him. (Don't tell him I said that.) But dwarves were indeed part of the ancient population, which should surprise no one, and they often reached high stations in the society. One of my favorite examples was a wealthy man named Seneb, who probably lived in Dynasty 5 (late Old Kingdom) and left this charming statue group of him and his family:

dwarf3.jpg

Giants, on the other hand, are not attested. There is no real evidence for them in the archaeological record. Cleverly concocted, Photoshopped photos on the internet do not count, of course. In fact, in an age when the average man grew to be around 5'2", the tallest ancient Egyptian of whom I'm aware is an unidentified New Kingdom fellow designated as Unknown Man E. He was around 5'9" in life—the size of an average Western man today.

Do you know what those glyphs say and are there any others that are the same they can be compared to, that prove they're Egyptian ?

No one is certain what the glyphs are, although a convincing theory has been presented that they represent numbers. This would make sense. They had to have been engineering marks of some kind, and supposing that they might have been numerical markings is very reasonable. The point is, however, that they had to have been put there by some individual while the Great Pyramid was being constructed. That much cannot be argued.

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Great pyramid was not built by the AE or khufu and is a way older structure by the looks of it.Obvious proofs pointing towards it the lack of heiroglyphs in it and the staggering difference between it and all the other pyramids built by other pharoans that followed.I had once suggested that Khufu probably intruded and put his cartouche if Vyse didn't do it himself and probably repaired the pyramid on atleast two other blogs regarding this topic hence the mortar between the blocks radiocarbondates from around Khufu's time.There is not much objective proof that Khufu built the pyramids but still it is treated as accepted fact beyond any questioning.

The mortar extracted for the carbon dating consisted of 40 different samples taken from all over the Great Pyramid. It's beyond reality to suggest that every one of these samples is inconsistent with the age of the pyramid, especially considering that the areas from which nearly all of the samples were taken had been concealed for thousands of years by casing stones that the early Muslims stripped off. And the mean average for these mortar samples has confirmed that the Great Pyramid could not have been built much more than a century before the conventional date of 2500 BCE.

I don't know about all of those pyramids built after Khufu's. What about Khafre's? It's practically the same size. What about the three erected by Sneferu, even before the Great Pyramid? What about Djoser's pyramid, more than a century before Khufu's?

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. . several deities who cannot even be attested in Dynasty 4 (e.g., Osiris, Isis, Horemakhet [Harmakhis], Haurun).

i read somewhere that while the three Giza pyramids function as tombs for the Pharaoh they were dedicated (at some time) respectively to Osiris, Isis and Horus

could there be any validity to that?

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Okay.

Then please explain the Egyptian glyphs that were spotted by the robotic probe sent into the "air shafts" that come out of the Queen's Chamber.

Did Khufu hire a midget? Did you know these shafts are only about 8 by 81/2 ]inches?

It's obvious to any thinking person that all the Egyptian pyramids were constructed by (ahem) the Egyptians.

Any other thought on the subject is either the folly of pure ignorance or brain maxturbation.

Harte

Clinging to mainstream opinions without substabtial proofs to back them and questioning glaring proofs to a contradictory(to the mainstream) opinion is more like 'maxtrubation'.Also as pointed by someone else can you post a picture of the heiroglyphics that you describe and have they been interpreted.And yes the egyptian pyramids were constructed by egyptians but what i was commenting on is the 'Great pyramids'.Also why would the builders put glyphs inside the air shafts to be only seen by robots of the present Era and not on more obvious or visible locations?.Don't tell me they were markers used for construction material as then similar glyphs should be found on other parts of the pyramids.Are you insinuating that the AE were such retards that they would inscribe on the inner side of an air shaft and not anywhere else on the great pyramid.

Probably Khufu wanted to prove that he built the pyramids and did this misheif by introducing these glyphs in these places along with his cartouche via printing blocks attached to poles.I suggest you use your skeptical accumen to suggest how Khufu could have pulled of this forgery with the same zest you use to argue for khufu building the pyramid and probably you could tell me better ideas of how this was done or is your skeptcism only directed at ideas that contradict mainstreamers?

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The mortar extracted for the carbon dating consisted of 40 different samples taken from all over the Great Pyramid. It's beyond reality to suggest that every one of these samples is inconsistent with the age of the pyramid, especially considering that the areas from which nearly all of the samples were taken had been concealed for thousands of years by casing stones that the early Muslims stripped off. And the mean average for these mortar samples has confirmed that the Great Pyramid could not have been built much more than a century before the conventional date of 2500 BCE.

I don't know about all of those pyramids built after Khufu's. What about Khafre's? It's practically the same size. What about the three erected by Sneferu, even before the Great Pyramid? What about Djoser's pyramid, more than a century before Khufu's?

Sesh the questions you put in the end of your post are only in context if you assume that the great pyramids(including the one you think built by Khafre) were built by khufu in 2500/2600 BC so if you wipe this assumption off the rest of your questions are already answered for.

And khufu using mortar to repair the exterior of the whole pyramid is not really an impossible act according to me.What objective proofs exist that it was only the muslim raiders who robbed or removed all the missing casing stones?Even if the pyramids are dated one year before the suspected reign period of Khufu it still could not have been built by him.

Other glaring inconsistencies in your suggested line of builders for the great pyramid is that why are there no ascending chambers passages etc in the so called Khafre pyramid?.Had the custom of building pyramid chambers changed so dramatically.Also why wouldn't khafre built his pyramid bigger then the one built by khufu since he had the advantage of being the second builder.How about radiocarbondating the second pyramid as well to give clues about the timeline of when it was built as this could solve a lot of mysteries surrounding who built/repaired/intruded them and at what time.

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I must admit I myself am not very good at the search function, which is why I try not to chide others for failing to do so. That was one of a series of short-lived discussions I launched to refute some of the stunningly poor information the zany Zecharia Sitchin presented in his book The Stairway to Heaven. It was fun stuff to write.

The Inventory Stela is the darling of numerous fringe authors and quite a few posters of the same bent who've graced our halls at UM (and by this I am not including you, Puzzler). Actually dating it to 1500 BCE is many centuries off, as there is consensus in the Egyptological and wider academic community that it dates to the Saite Period (beginning 664 BCE), otherwise known as Dynasty 26. It was a brief resurgence of political autonomy for the Egyptians in the Late Period—after the Egyptians tossed off the yoke of Assyria and just before the Persians came along and mucked up everything for them. Giza had been more or less abandoned and neglected for a long time, and in the rebirth of their nationalistic zeal, the Egyptians showered it with attention and veneration.

Here is one of the most modern translations of the Inventory Stela (Christiane Zivie-Coche 2002: 85-87):

Live the Horus Medjed, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Cheops,

given life. He found the house of Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, next to

the house of Haurun, northwest of the house of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau.

He (re)built the pyramid of the king's daughter Henutsen beside this

temple. He made an inventory, carved on a stela, for his mother Isis, the

mother of the god, Hathor, Mistress of the Sky. He restored for her the

divine offerings and (re)built her temple in stone, that which he found

in ruins being renewed, and the gods in their place.

The temenos of Haurun-Harmakhis is south of the temple domain of

Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, and north of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau. The

writings of the temple of Harmakhis were brought to make the inventory

(bis) of this diving being (?) of the great [. . .] his effigy, its casing

entirely covered with designs [. . .] he made [. . .] which is in gilded stone

of seven cubits [. . .] in the temenos of Harmakhis, in conformity with this

model that is carved [. . .]. He set up an offering table for the vases [. . .].

May he endure. May he live forever and ever, his face turned toward the

east.

So when one reads proper translations of this small monument, it's not really referring to the Great Pyramid at all. It's referring to one of the small queens' pyramids along the east side of the Great Pyramid. The Inventory Stela is mostly about the temple to Isis that had been erected next to this little pyramid, including a list of offerings supplied to the temple. That this temple existed is not in question: it is archaeologically attested. However, it did not exist in Khufu's time. It cannot be dated to any earlier than the Third Intermediate Period (beginning 1064 BCE). That period itself was centuries before Dynasty 26, so the temple to Isis must have seemed very old even by the Saite Period. However, it certainly was not erected in Khufu's time. In fact, when the Isis temple was built next to the little queen's pyramid in the Third Intermediate Period, part a large private mastaba to the immediate east had to be dismantled to accommodate the temple structure. Obviously the mastaba, which dates to Dynasty 4, precedes the Isis temple in chronology.

There isn't really anything about the Inventory Stela that would confirm it as an historical document, as we might understand the term. It was a monument of veneration, both to a very ancient king and to a very important goddess. Close examination of the stela reveals all sorts of historical anachronisms, not the least of which are several deities who cannot even be attested in Dynasty 4 (e.g., Osiris, Isis, Horemakhet [Harmakhis], Haurun). It was common for people who commissioned important monuments (kings included) to hint that they came from ancient records they had found, but that was only to lend importance and legitimacy to the monument. It doesn't mean historical veracity is evident.

It was suggested in the article that the Temple of Isis had been built over a previous Isis Temple, an earlier one. I'd find it hard to think they didn't have some kind of temple for her earlier than 1064BC, when she'd been around for so long.

Most Egyptian deities were first worshipped by very local cults, and they retained those local centres of worship even as their popularity spread, so that most major cities and towns in Egypt were known as the home of a particular deity. The origins of the cult of Isis are uncertain, but it is believed that she was originally an independent and popular deity in predynastic times, prior to 3100 BCE, at Sebennytos in the Nile delta

The first written references to Isis date back to the Fifth dynasty of Egypt. Based on the association of her name with the throne, some early Egyptologists believed that Isis's original function was that of throne-mother.[citation needed] However, more recent scholarship suggests that aspects of that role came later by association. In many African tribes, the throne is known as the mother of the king, and that concept fits well with either theory, possibly giving insight into the thinking of ancient Egyptians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis

Edited by The Puzzler

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I must admit I myself am not very good at the search function, which is why I try not to chide others for failing to do so. That was one of a series of short-lived discussions I launched to refute some of the stunningly poor information the zany Zecharia Sitchin presented in his book The Stairway to Heaven. It was fun stuff to write.

The Inventory Stela is the darling of numerous fringe authors and quite a few posters of the same bent who've graced our halls at UM (and by this I am not including you, Puzzler). Actually dating it to 1500 BCE is many centuries off, as there is consensus in the Egyptological and wider academic community that it dates to the Saite Period (beginning 664 BCE), otherwise known as Dynasty 26. It was a brief resurgence of political autonomy for the Egyptians in the Late Period—after the Egyptians tossed off the yoke of Assyria and just before the Persians came along and mucked up everything for them. Giza had been more or less abandoned and neglected for a long time, and in the rebirth of their nationalistic zeal, the Egyptians showered it with attention and veneration.

Here is one of the most modern translations of the Inventory Stela (Christiane Zivie-Coche 2002: 85-87):

Live the Horus Medjed, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Cheops,

given life. He found the house of Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, next to

the house of Haurun, northwest of the house of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau.

He (re)built the pyramid of the king's daughter Henutsen beside this

temple. He made an inventory, carved on a stela, for his mother Isis, the

mother of the god, Hathor, Mistress of the Sky. He restored for her the

divine offerings and (re)built her temple in stone, that which he found

in ruins being renewed, and the gods in their place.

The temenos of Haurun-Harmakhis is south of the temple domain of

Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, and north of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau. The

writings of the temple of Harmakhis were brought to make the inventory

(bis) of this diving being (?) of the great [. . .] his effigy, its casing

entirely covered with designs [. . .] he made [. . .] which is in gilded stone

of seven cubits [. . .] in the temenos of Harmakhis, in conformity with this

model that is carved [. . .]. He set up an offering table for the vases [. . .].

May he endure. May he live forever and ever, his face turned toward the

east.

So when one reads proper translations of this small monument, it's not really referring to the Great Pyramid at all. It's referring to one of the small queens' pyramids along the east side of the Great Pyramid. The Inventory Stela is mostly about the temple to Isis that had been erected next to this little pyramid, including a list of offerings supplied to the temple. That this temple existed is not in question: it is archaeologically attested. However, it did not exist in Khufu's time. It cannot be dated to any earlier than the Third Intermediate Period (beginning 1064 BCE). That period itself was centuries before Dynasty 26, so the temple to Isis must have seemed very old even by the Saite Period. However, it certainly was not erected in Khufu's time. In fact, when the Isis temple was built next to the little queen's pyramid in the Third Intermediate Period, part a large private mastaba to the immediate east had to be dismantled to accommodate the temple structure. Obviously the mastaba, which dates to Dynasty 4, precedes the Isis temple in chronology.

There isn't really anything about the Inventory Stela that would confirm it as an historical document, as we might understand the term. It was a monument of veneration, both to a very ancient king and to a very important goddess. Close examination of the stela reveals all sorts of historical anachronisms, not the least of which are several deities who cannot even be attested in Dynasty 4 (e.g., Osiris, Isis, Horemakhet [Harmakhis], Haurun). It was common for people who commissioned important monuments (kings included) to hint that they came from ancient records they had found, but that was only to lend importance and legitimacy to the monument. It doesn't mean historical veracity is evident.

The date of the stele is a supposition.It not reffering to the great pyramids is also a supposition.Why should we not take what is written in the stela literally? Inventing or incorporating new Gods accpeted and worshipped by entire civilization is not a easy or spontaneous task without factual basis.

Personally to many suppositions/assumptions in this argument for me to digest it.

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Come now, L, Bes was a god so you can't count him. (Don't tell him I said that.) But dwarves were indeed part of the ancient population, which should surprise no one, and they often reached high stations in the society. One of my favorite examples was a wealthy man named Seneb, who probably lived in Dynasty 5 (late Old Kingdom) and left this charming statue group of him and his family:

dwarf3.jpg

Giants, on the other hand, are not attested. There is no real evidence for them in the archaeological record. Cleverly concocted, Photoshopped photos on the internet do not count, of course. In fact, in an age when the average man grew to be around 5'2", the tallest ancient Egyptian of whom I'm aware is an unidentified New Kingdom fellow designated as Unknown Man E. He was around 5'9" in life—the size of an average Western man today.

No one is certain what the glyphs are, although a convincing theory has been presented that they represent numbers. This would make sense. They had to have been engineering marks of some kind, and supposing that they might have been numerical markings is very reasonable. The point is, however, that they had to have been put there by some individual while the Great Pyramid was being constructed. That much cannot be argued.

On the subject of the Egyptians representing themselves in miniature or Colossal form here is one way to think about it. It relates to the ancient saying multum in parvo (much in small).

The famous miniature statue of Khufu compared to the colossi of Rameses says very much, because generally as time proceeded the civilisation of Egypt moved south along the Nile and with it one can trace the gradual degeneration. Rameses II was for example one of the most sexual of all the Pharaohs

Now compare the elephant to the ant. Which is the most efficient? It is said that the ant carries many times it's own body weight. The most potent energy of all is locked up in the tiny atom.

So I wonder if the later pharaohs really knew what they were doing portraying themselves as giants? Also in folklore isn't the giant represented as a cumbersome brute? Maybe it was the early Kings who knew what they were doing?

Edited by zoser

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Clinging to mainstream opinions without substabtial proofs to back them and questioning glaring proofs to a contradictory(to the mainstream) opinion is more like 'maxtrubation'.Also as pointed by someone else can you post a picture of the heiroglyphics that you describe and have they been interpreted.And yes the egyptian pyramids were constructed by egyptians but what i was commenting on is the 'Great pyramids'.Also why would the builders put glyphs inside the air shafts to be only seen by robots of the present Era and not on more obvious or visible locations?.Don't tell me they were markers used for construction material as then similar glyphs should be found on other parts of the pyramids.Are you insinuating that the AE were such retards that they would inscribe on the inner side of an air shaft and not anywhere else on the great pyramid.

Probably Khufu wanted to prove that he built the pyramids and did this misheif by introducing these glyphs in these places along with his cartouche via printing blocks attached to poles.I suggest you use your skeptical accumen to suggest how Khufu could have pulled of this forgery with the same zest you use to argue for khufu building the pyramid and probably you could tell me better ideas of how this was done or is your skeptcism only directed at ideas that contradict mainstreamers?

You ignore the very real fact that there is a kink in the "air passage" that would prevent such a ridiculous thing from even being possible.

Are you aware of anything about the GP? If so, than tell me, how did Khufu even discover these passages? The "air shafts" were covered over and the relieving chambers were sealed off by solid rock - not as a door, but completely sealed off due to the construction technique itself.

We got in using black powder. How did Khufu blow these chambers open and then how did he repair them to a state undetectable from pristine?

Claiming Khufu could do such a thing is no different that claiming Khufu had the thing built in the first place.

You do know, don't you, that the writings in the relieving chambers list some of the names of the work gangs that built the thing, right? Are you aware that some of these same work gang names have been found in other records? Are you saying Khufu put those there too? How would he know to do that? Just so you could be right 4500 years later?

I swear, it certainly takes all kinds to make a world.

The next earthworm you see might be out to get you. So step on him.

Harte

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Kmt,

This copy of my post from another thread before a minute.

Why is hard to imagine that Giants existed- We have had giants animals in all area of the world. Giant penguins in Antartica for example. Its life adaptation. I think we must look for giant bones in areas that were once hard to found food. Look at elaphant. His stomach is big because it was hard to him to find good nutrition food so to survive he must eat a lot of low quality food that his stomach could choose best nutrition from it. So to become Giant we must first asumme that Darwin theory is right and give homo spieces enough time and area with low quality food and you would get Giants.

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Also why would the builders put glyphs inside the air shafts to be only seen by robots of the present Era and not on more obvious or visible locations?.Don't tell me they were markers used for construction material as then similar glyphs should be found on other parts of the pyramids.

Look:

Quarry marks are all over the place. In every pyramid complex and on every mastaba field one only has to open his/her eyes to see them. The mark in this picture is on a block on top of Khafres mastaba (Khaf-Khufu, as he was called as prince), and the color has withstood wind and weather for some time. Clear and fresh.

Another example can be visited in Dahschur: during the excavations in the late 1990's many blocks with quarry marks from the Red Pyramid were collected and brought to a spot on the south east side of the pyramid. There are now lying hundreds of testimonies on stone against Sitchins assertion in the sun, for everyone to see.

Source: http://doernenburg.a...ide/pyr05_e.php

Also from that source, the picture referred to in the second sentence of the quote:

Markier.jpg

So, exactly as you claimed, that "similar glyphs should be found on other parts of the pyramids," thus it is.

Harte

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No one is certain what the glyphs are, although a convincing theory has been presented that they represent numbers. This would make sense. They had to have been engineering marks of some kind, and supposing that they might have been numerical markings is very reasonable. The point is, however, that they had to have been put there by some individual while the Great Pyramid was being constructed. That much cannot be argued.

Exactly my point kmt, the only thing people can claim about those glyphs is that they had to have been put there by some individual while the Great Pyramid was being constructed and nobody else due to the impossibility of access. To call them Egyptian, or whatever for that matter, is wrong until at the point they are deciphered or corroborated in one way or another.

Although probably hard to do, would it not be possible scratch off a small sample of the 'paint' to carbon date them. Surely then at least there can be no argument as to when the whole thing was built as it will be in effect a 'clean' sample.

I can't see how they can be some numerical or engineering marks though, as surely there would be many other samples to compare them with. Personally I'd have thought more likely a mason or stone layer putting in a quick 'personal mark' for posterity before anybody notices i.e. painting rather than a chiseling a feature which would take time. Masons do this all the time and is nothing unusual tbh. Mine, my brothers, my mum and the Alfa Romeo embolom is hidden for posterity on many a famous and well known building for people to ponder and hypthesize over for many years to come in the distant future. :tsu::lol:

Edited to say - have just read Harte's link regarding carbon dating etc which he posted while I was writing this post. Surely if the marks are all over the place then they can work out the meaning then.

Edited by Banksy Boy
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