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Mnemonix

God's mercy?

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I didn't think God had mercy. I refer you to the genocide he unleashed upon earth killing all living things save two of each species for no real reason.

According to the Bible He decided to reset because of the evil in the world. That man's thoughts were "only evil continually". If He saw the suffering of the innocents and wanted to put paid to it what better solution than to take them all away? I think fear of death is over rated. The act of dying can be painful of course but it isn't often a long term process. I for one would much rather be put out of such misery than be continuously subjected to it for a lifetime. And I also cannot believe that a just and loving Creator would punish His creation for all eternity. I think we must be misunderstanding something.
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God is almighty, so I'm sure He can be creative and think of an alternative. Just for example, if someone was evil, God could change that person.

I don't mean any offense to God, or anyone. This is just my personal opinion, and of course tons of people out there want to stone me to death for saying this.

To me, something unlimited has to be far greater than even the largest number possible, able to be comprehended by humans. And that's how much love, mercy and forgiveness God should have

This is not a puppet show. GOD has given mankind free will. Sometimes intervention is enabled through prayer, however it is always left to faith as to whether you believe it was intervention or just chance. If this world was a puppet show, where GOD intervened everytime there was trouble... then there would be totally no point to existance.
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Thank you, Universe for George Carlin, miss him. :nw:

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If God's mercy was truly unlimited, no one would go to Hell.

I don't understand how a loving, merciful, all-forgiving God would cause someone to suffer in unimaginable pain for all eternity. This isn't love or mercy, and seemingly not unlimited love and mercy.

I, as a limited human, wouldn't want even my worst enemy to suffer for all eternity. I can't comprehend that. So why would a God of unlimited love and mercy want that? That's just an example.

God is almighty, so I'm sure He can be creative and think of an alternative. Just for example, if someone was evil, God could change that person.

I don't mean any offense to God, or anyone. This is just my personal opinion, and of course tons of people out there want to stone me to death for saying this.

To me, something unlimited has to be far greater than even the largest number possible, able to be comprehended by humans. And that's how much love, mercy and forgiveness God should have.

So come to me with some love, if you want to correct me on anything.

Peace and love.

*Sigh*

I agree with you.... I think we all go on. There are some 'evil' people who need to shed their ways, but those are the things that will go to hell and not the soul eternally. There are various aspects of hell, even here on earth, even in our own minds. Heaven is the same. God does have mercy....

When the question arises about the souls going to hell to burn forever I always think of this story in the scriptures:

Ezekiel and the valley of dry bones... This is a lovely story about the renewal of life, for those that were thought to be long dead and without hope at all for life again...

The Valley of Dry Bones

37 The hand of the Lord was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

I said, “Sovereign Lord, you alone know.”

4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breath[a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

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I think i can bring a little light to the subject. First about the omnipotence of God. The truth is, God is not omnipotent, because He limits himself regarding actions He can do. He always plays by the rules He himself brought upon Him, so in a way Lucifer is more potent than God, because Lucifer doesn't need to oblige the rules. Second, God is as much Just as he is Mercifull, so He has to punish wrongdoers eventually. Say you have two children and one child constantly molests the other. You have a right to forgive him and not punish him, because it is your child and you love him despite his behaviour, but the other child which is damaged, has a right to demand justice. You can check Revelation 6:10, regarding that thought. So eventually you would have to punish the first child, if you are Just father.

Now the concept of eternal punishment is not Biblical, it makes no sense, because God is Just and He can only administer punishment according to the evil done, so more evil pepole will burn longer, less will burn shorter, but at the end, all wrongdoers will cease to exist in a way that they will experience second death, and they will not be tortured forever. It is stated that the fires of Hell will burn eternally, but the people will not be tortured eternally. It is our human misconcepption that fire needs fuel to burn, hence eternal fire requires souls burn for eternity, but that is wrong.

It is clear so far?

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If God's mercy was truly unlimited, no one would go to Hell.

I don't understand how a loving, merciful, all-forgiving God would cause someone to suffer in unimaginable pain for all eternity. This isn't love or mercy, and seemingly not unlimited love and mercy.

I, as a limited human, wouldn't want even my worst enemy to suffer for all eternity. I can't comprehend that. So why would a God of unlimited love and mercy want that? That's just an example.

God is almighty, so I'm sure He can be creative and think of an alternative. Just for example, if someone was evil, God could change that person.

I don't mean any offense to God, or anyone. This is just my personal opinion, and of course tons of people out there want to stone me to death for saying this.

To me, something unlimited has to be far greater than even the largest number possible, able to be comprehended by humans. And that's how much love, mercy and forgiveness God should have.

So come to me with some love, if you want to correct me on anything.

Peace and love.

*Sigh*

Hell is not a friendly doctrine and Christians struggle with it as well. It points to our freedom, hell is a choice. We are free, we choose, our lives and actions create us, our life is important, we are responsible. After saying that, I pray and hope that all are saved. The NT has passages that point to that as well. This doctrine is also abused, and Christians use it as a scare tatic, when it fact it something for each to ponder without pointing fingers for only God knows the heart......

Peace

mark

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I think i can bring a little light to the subject. First about the omnipotence of God. The truth is, God is not omnipotent, because He limits himself regarding actions He can do. He always plays by the rules He himself brought upon Him

Sorry, what rules are these? I can think of some instances where he ignores his rules. His statement he "can not lie" comes to mind.

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If God's mercy was truly unlimited, no one would go to Hell.

I don't understand how a loving, merciful, all-forgiving God would cause someone to suffer in unimaginable pain for all eternity.

Translations were probably lost after the Tower of Babel. :tu:

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If God's mercy was truly unlimited, no one would go to Hell.

I don't understand how a loving, merciful, all-forgiving God would cause someone to suffer in unimaginable pain for all eternity. This isn't love or mercy, and seemingly not unlimited love and mercy.

I, as a limited human, wouldn't want even my worst enemy to suffer for all eternity. I can't comprehend that. So why would a God of unlimited love and mercy want that? That's just an example.

God is almighty, so I'm sure He can be creative and think of an alternative. Just for example, if someone was evil, God could change that person.

I don't mean any offense to God, or anyone. This is just my personal opinion, and of course tons of people out there want to stone me to death for saying this.

To me, something unlimited has to be far greater than even the largest number possible, able to be comprehended by humans. And that's how much love, mercy and forgiveness God should have.

So come to me with some love, if you want to correct me on anything.

Peace and love.

*Sigh*

i think people should stop giving human traits to god. like being a merciful god or a forgiving or vengeful god...nonsense

god is not a person. those traits belong to humans. we try to fit something immeasurably huge into our miniscule little brains and this is what we end up with

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Because he has unlimited wrath too? & I heard its not that eternal.

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Simple solution: God has NONE of those attributes.

Really? Are you sure of this? How you can know? I think you are joking with the topic.

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Hell is not a friendly doctrine and Christians struggle with it as well. It points to our freedom, hell is a choice. We are free, we choose, our lives and actions create us, our life is important, we are responsible. After saying that, I pray and hope that all are saved. The NT has passages that point to that as well. This doctrine is also abused, and Christians use it as a scare tatic, when it fact it something for each to ponder without pointing fingers for only God knows the heart......

Peace

mark

Is good remember that be a christian don't mean to belong to a Church. Church isn't synonymous of religion. Religion is a technique, a science. Church is an instituition that intends teach and conduce the practice of this technique and science. This isn't means that one doctrine, a line of thinking, the technique of "religare" (origin of the word religion) doesn't work or is wrong.

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I don't understand why, when someone talks about God, almost everyone begins to mention the Christianism, the catholicism. Seems that only exist these religious systems. But this is not true. Another thing that I don't understand is why seems that nobody never heard something about Karma Law, Action and reaction law, doctrine of the kardecist spiritism, Buddhism, all these philosophical religious systems that, at least - offer some answers more near of the logical; answers for questions as the reason of the injustices that occur at the world.

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Sorry, what rules are these? I can think of some instances where he ignores his rules. His statement he "can not lie" comes to mind.

Yes, the rule about telling only the truth or standing behind His words is one example. God does not lie in any circumstances. However I believe you refer to some instances in Old Testament where it is written that God send lying spirit to do this or that. It doesn't mean God lied, because in those times Lucifer was rightful member of heavenly host and had a right to participate in actions regarding humans, so he was allowed to do such things, because if God wouldn't allow such actions would prove Lucifer claim that He is tyrant. You can easily check the book of Job where it is in detail described, how Lucifer accused Job why he obeys God, and where God allowed Lucifer to hurt Job.

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I don't understand why, when someone talks about God, almost everyone begins to mention the Christianism, the catholicism. Seems that only exist these religious systems. But this is not true. Another thing that I don't understand is why seems that nobody never heard something about Karma Law, Action and reaction law, doctrine of the kardecist spiritism, Buddhism, all these philosophical religious systems that, at least - offer some answers more near of the logical; answers for questions as the reason of the injustices that occur at the world.

There is great deal of things that could be discussed regarding God of eastern religions what you mentioned, but aspect of mercy is probably not one of them. Unlike christian religion, in eastern religions God's mercy is not so much emphasized in relation to other attributes or aspects of God, such as the Law.

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i think people should stop giving human traits to god. like being a merciful god or a forgiving or vengeful god...nonsense

god is not a person. those traits belong to humans. we try to fit something immeasurably huge into our miniscule little brains and this is what we end up with

By logical definition, any God that is revealed to humans, must have some attributes and traits. That is the only way God can declare Himself to humans so they can apprehend Him in at least miniscule way. If you check any religion, you can see that God has sometime mother attributes, sometimes father, yet still the fact that God is immeasurably huge doesn't mean He hasn't got traits.

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Yes, the rule about telling only the truth or standing behind His words is one example. God does not lie in any circumstances. However I believe you refer to some instances in Old Testament where it is written that God send lying spirit to do this or that.
By that logic Charles Manson didn't kill anyone either.
It doesn't mean God lied, because in those times Lucifer was rightful member of heavenly host and had a right to participate in actions regarding humans, so he was allowed to do such things, because if God wouldn't allow such actions would prove Lucifer claim that He is tyrant. You can easily check the book of Job where it is in detail described, how Lucifer accused Job why he obeys God, and where God allowed Lucifer to hurt Job.

You need to read it again, Lucifer isn't mentioned. The mention of Lucifer in Isaiah is speaking of a man.

BTW this story has nothing to do with God sending lying spirits. Could you address the point I brought up?

Edited by Rlyeh

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By that logic Charles Manson didn't kill anyone either.

You need to read it again, Lucifer isn't mentioned. The mention of Lucifer in Isaiah is speaking of a man.

BTW this story has nothing to do with God sending lying spirits. Could you address the point I brought up?

I'm sorry I don't understand what logic you use to connect God with Charles Manson. I understood we are discussing here aspect of God's mercy, not God's justice.

You're correct, in Book of Job Lucifer is not mentioned, but Satan is. I adressed the fact that Lucifer and Satan are same entity, but there are probably people who wouldn't agree on that.

I appologize, but i don't know then what do you refer to in "His statement he "can not lie" comes to mind." if you're not refering to lying spirits.

Edited by Amalthe

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I'm sorry I don't understand what logic you use to connect God with Charles Manson. I understood we are discussing here aspect of God's mercy, not God's justice.

Do you understand what an analogy is?

If God is innocent of lying because instead he sent lying spirits, then by that logic Charles Manson is innocent of murder because he sent others to do it.

I appologize, but i don't know then what do you refer to in "His statement he "can not lie" comes to mind." if you're not refering to lying spirits.
What has Job got to do with this?

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True God is all merciful but not when you are alive on this earth. You are bound by the so-called scientific laws that govern this universe. When a tiger is pouncing on a goat God knows what pain the goat is going to suffer. At the same time the tiger's life is at stake. So god does not interfere. If driving your car brakes fail despite your pleas god will not interfere. There is something that we do not know about god at all.

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Is good remember that be a christian don't mean to belong to a Church. Church isn't synonymous of religion. Religion is a technique, a science. Church is an instituition that intends teach and conduce the practice of this technique and science. This isn't means that one doctrine, a line of thinking, the technique of "religare" (origin of the word religion) doesn't work or is wrong.

i agree that church is not religion. i also agree that religion is a technique (or more accurately a demonstration of one's belief) but you totally lose me on the idea that it is a science.

i would argue that it is not even close to being considered a science. religion is faith based, science is fact based. that in itself demonstrates my point.

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Yes, the rule about telling only the truth or standing behind His words is one example. God does not lie in any circumstances. However I believe you refer to some instances in Old Testament where it is written that God send lying spirit to do this or that. It doesn't mean God lied, because in those times Lucifer was rightful member of heavenly host and had a right to participate in actions regarding humans, so he was allowed to do such things, because if God wouldn't allow such actions would prove Lucifer claim that He is tyrant. You can easily check the book of Job where it is in detail described, how Lucifer accused Job why he obeys God, and where God allowed Lucifer to hurt Job.

how incredibly convenient.

so, as long as you have a good reason, as long as things work out for the better, and as long as one does not do the actual lying, it's perfectly fine

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Well, if you sin and you go to Hell....then I am going to Hell. If God was to determine commandments and punishment for not following them, why has this all changed? Once again religion has changed his words to gain more believers. And Hell is another pagan belief that was stolen The Norse goddess, Hel, looked after the souls that were not allowed to stay in Valhalla.

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Do you understand what an analogy is?

If God is innocent of lying because instead he sent lying spirits, then by that logic Charles Manson is innocent of murder because he sent others to do it.

how incredibly convenient.

so, as long as you have a good reason, as long as things work out for the better, and as long as one does not do the actual lying, it's perfectly fine

I'm sorry, but I have trouble understanding analogies if I don't get enough words to explain them. However in this case I understood and I see your point and I think you're right. There is no logical way that God is telling nothing but the truth and at the same time orders someone to lie. However, do you agree that God could allow someone to do the lying but not for Him, similar to what He allowed to happen with Job, and not come in contradiction with His truthfull character?

Anyway, there is something strange about that passage because in one moment the Prophet was talking with King, and in next one Prophet is witnessing about meeting in heaven. Please allow me some time to look into it and see what was the case.

Edited by Amalthe

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Well, if you sin and you go to Hell....then I am going to Hell. If God was to determine commandments and punishment for not following them, why has this all changed? Once again religion has changed his words to gain more believers. And Hell is another pagan belief that was stolen The Norse goddess, Hel, looked after the souls that were not allowed to stay in Valhalla.

I don't think this is how it works. We all do sin, christians, pagans, Hebrews, atheists alike. We break commandments and i don't think anything has changed, the Law is the same now as 3000 years before. It is that by God's mercy we are saved, not by our actions. And it is interesting to see same pattern in Nordic religion, but I just proves that all religions have same origin.

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