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Harsh86_Patel

Serpent and the Sun

47 posts in this topic

The passages, inscribed on the subterranean walls of the pyramid of King Unas at Saqqara, reveal that the Egyptians enlisted the magical assistance of Semitic Canaanites from the ancient city of Byblos, located in what is now Lebanon.

The Canaanite spells were invoked to help protect mummified kings against poisonous snakes, one of ancient Egypt's most dreaded nemeses.

According to the incantations, female snakes—acting as mediators for Canaanite magicians—used their multiple mouths and sexual organs to prevent other snakes from entering the mummified rulers' remains.

The passages date from between 2400 to 3000 B.C. and appear to be written in Proto-Canaanite, a direct ancestor of biblical Hebrew (see a timeline of ancient Egypt).

In fact, experts say, the inscriptions may help them solve several long-standing mysteries of the Bible and ancient Egypt.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070205-snake-spells.html

Seems to me the 5th Dynasty era is one where massive Canaanite influence came into Egypt, with Osiris/Orion even being imported at that time.

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I'm thinking that Colchis could have been a settlement by people of Akhenatens time and realm, a Sun city for the Aten, then the Medes come from there, as Aryans, Colchis name really being Aia - the Sun, the Aia, the Aten worshippers, one God people - the Persians began from them, Ahura Mazda equates to the Aten as being an eye in the sky, he is Ahura Mazda's eye.

I don't know about hands either on the ends of the Aten, they kinda look like snake heads to me.

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@ Harsh86

Found out in Armenian mythology, they considered the lion sacred, the Assyrians and Babylonians also used the lion and like every where, it was used as a symbol of kingship, bravery and i think warriors used it too. Animals like crocodiles were thought to be sacred by some people too.

Lions are extremely interesting to follow around, particularly how now it is very European and royal - I just think it didn't have the rebirth, renewal quality of the snake making it important in some respects but not comparable to the serpent.

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Enki (ancient sumerian) also represented by a Snake at times.

Quatzequatel(meso american) aslo represented by a Serpent.

Viracocha (south american) represented as a feathered Serpent.

Why would so many people represent their primary deities with such slithery slimy and often poisonous animals.

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In light of a few arguments given hear to justify 'Snake' worship as a natural thing to do for isolated cultures,why didn't the same apply to so many other animals which are equally enigmatic say for example a Lion,it has a royal mane and seems ferocious at the same time awe inspiring.

Snakes are almost universal, which is why we can find snake cults almost universally......not only isolated cultures, but also as cultural phenomena that crosses cultures with the trades of goods and ideas, either reinforcing existing traditions, or assimilating them/being assimilated by them. even in places where there are no snakes or indiginous snake veneration.

Sun worship/cults are likewise found pretty much everywhere.

lions have important cultural significance to those cultures that encounter them, and again further afield....as you say, most often to signify the strength of kingship.

The eagle (or other big birds of prey) is another example.

Dogs/wolf, are another.

Bovines (cows, bulls) are another.

and the list goes on......

It doesnt mean that at some time there was one universal culture which later split. :tu:

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Enki (ancient sumerian) also represented by a Snake at times.

Quatzequatel(meso american) aslo represented by a Serpent.

Viracocha (south american) represented as a feathered Serpent.

Why would so many people represent their primary deities with such slithery slimy and often poisonous animals.

It's all about rebirth and healing. They can kill but also shed to become new again. Numerous myths but the Greek ones I know best, Asclepius the healer, he has the one snake on the stick, he is medicine, the myth goes he could heal people with the snake, too many people were not dying, Hades got annoyed, so Zeus made it so Asclepius couldn't bring anyone back to life anymore with the snake(bite). Even now we see, the anti-venom is the actual venom of the snake.

In honor of Asclepius, a particular type of non-venomous snake was often used in healing rituals, and these snakes — the Aesculapian Snakes — crawled around freely on the floor in dormitories where the sick and injured slept. These snakes were introduced at the founding of each new temple of Asclepius throughout the classical world. From about 300 BC onwards, the cult of Asclepius grew very popular and pilgrims flocked to his healing temples (Asclepieia) to be cured of their ills.

200px-Statue_of_Asklepios_NAMA_263_%28DerHexer%29.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius

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It's all about rebirth and healing. They can kill but also shed to become new again. Numerous myths but the Greek ones I know best, Asclepius the healer, he has the one snake on the stick, he is medicine, the myth goes he could heal people with the snake, too many people were not dying, Hades got annoyed, so Zeus made it so Asclepius couldn't bring anyone back to life anymore with the snake(bite). Even now we see, the anti-venom is the actual venom of the snake.

In honor of Asclepius, a particular type of non-venomous snake was often used in healing rituals, and these snakes — the Aesculapian Snakes — crawled around freely on the floor in dormitories where the sick and injured slept. These snakes were introduced at the founding of each new temple of Asclepius throughout the classical world. From about 300 BC onwards, the cult of Asclepius grew very popular and pilgrims flocked to his healing temples (Asclepieia) to be cured of their ills.

200px-Statue_of_Asklepios_NAMA_263_%28DerHexer%29.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius

I thought it had more to do with knowledge probably.

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I thought it had more to do with knowledge probably.

The Sun rebirths each year so a Sun/Serpent cult as in your title of the topic would be about rebirth first, then knowledge, from God, via the serpent.

(In my opinion of course.)

Edited by The Puzzler

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The serpent and the sun were almost universally worshipped or revered by all the people of the world at some point of time or the other,their reverence crosses cultural boundaries and geographic boundaries along with boundaries of time.If people can contribute by sharing images and knowledge of different cultures of the world revering or worshipping these then i would be very thankful.

Illyrians also worshiped a sun. Slavic people too. Egyptians. Who isnt? First thing that you see in sky when you woke up its sun. So it isnt wierd why sun was worshiped around world.

Snakes are interesting. Snake is usually connected with wisdom.

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Illyrians also worshiped a sun. Slavic people too. Egyptians. Who isnt? First thing that you see in sky when you woke up its sun. So it isnt wierd why sun was worshiped around world.

Snakes are interesting. Snake is usually connected with wisdom.

Many other commonplace objects natural or otherwise have not been as widely worshipped,revered.Snake being connected with wisdom i agree with.

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Many other commonplace objects natural or otherwise have not been as widely worshipped,revered.Snake being connected with wisdom i agree with.

I don't disagree that snakes are connected to wisdom but renewal/rebirth is first and foremost.

The worship of serpent deities is present in several old cultures, particularly in religion and mythology, where snakes were seen as entities of strength and renewal

The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death and mortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".

http://en.wikipedia....i/Snake_worship

Edited by The Puzzler

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In Slavic mythology it is connected with wisdom. In Basque too. Thats why ETA choose Axe and Snake as eblem. Axe represent Strenght and snake represent Wisdom.

Eta_logo.jpg

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In Slavic mythology it is connected with wisdom. In Basque too. Thats why ETA choose Axe and Snake as eblem. Axe represent Strenght and snake represent Wisdom.

Eta_logo.jpg

Says the snake represents politics here.

ETA's motto is Bietan jarrai ("Keep up on both"), referring to the two figures in its symbol, a snake (representing politics) wrapped around an axe (representing armed struggle)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euskadi_Ta_Askatasuna

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Says the snake represents politics here.

ETA's motto is Bietan jarrai ("Keep up on both"), referring to the two figures in its symbol, a snake (representing politics) wrapped around an axe (representing armed struggle)

http://en.wikipedia....i_Ta_Askatasuna

Listen what L tells you when we talk about ETA. ;)

I can talk hours on it.

Edited by the L

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To be politicly active you must be first cunning and wise.

Here some basic rules to do politics which 90% of common people dont use. And dont even aware of it.

1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know,

don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc.

If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the

issues.

2. Become incredulous and indignant./ Avoid discussing key issues and

instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being

critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as

the "How dare you!" gambit.

3. Create rumor mongers./ Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges,

regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other

derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method

works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public

can learn of the facts are through such "arguable rumors". If you can

associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a

"wild rumor" which can have no basis in fact.

4. Use a straw man./ Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's

argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the

opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists

based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation,

or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their

significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the

charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of

the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule./ This is also known

as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as

variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such

as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-wing", "terrorists","conspiracy

buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual

deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear

of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run./ In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent

or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be

fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet

and letters-to -the-editor environments where a steady stream of new

identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism reasoning

-- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and

never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's

viewpoint.

7. Question motives./ Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to

imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other

bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the

defensive.

8. Invoke authority./ Claim for yourself or associate yourself with

authority and present your argument with enough "jargon" and "minutiae" to

illustrate you are "one who knows", and simply say it isn't so without

discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

9. Play Dumb./ No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered,

avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any

sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a

conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

10. Associate opponent charges with old news./ A derivative of the straw

man usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make

charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with. Where it

can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it

dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent

charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be

associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash

without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the

opponent is or was involved with the original source.

11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions./ Using a minor matter or

element of the facts, take the "high road" and "confess" with candor that

some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have

seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply

greater criminalities which, "just isn't so." Others can reinforce this on

your behalf, later. Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for

"coming clean" and "owning up" to your mistakes without addressing more

serious issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution./ Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events

surrounding the issue, and the multitude of players and events, paint the

entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following

the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address

the actual issues.

13. Alice in Wonderland Logic./ Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning

backwards with an apparent deductive logic in a way that forbears any actual

material fact.

14. Demand complete solutions./ Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to

solve the problem at hand completely, a ploy which works best for items

qualifying for rule 10.

15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions./ This requires creative

thinking unless the act was planned with contingency conclusions in place.

16. Vanishing evidence./ If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you

won't have to address the issue.

17. Change the subject./ Usually in connection with one of the other ploys

listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or

controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more

manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can "argue"

with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to

avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents./ If you can't do anything

else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses

which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and

generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you

avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their

emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by

then focusing on how "sensitive they are to criticism".

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs./ This is perhaps a

variant of the "play dumb" rule. Regardless of what material may be

presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and

demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist,

but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be

safely destroyed or withheld, such as a shredded govt. study). In order to

completely avoid discussing issues may require you to categorically deny and

be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are

acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other

authorities have any meaning or relevance.

20. False evidence./ Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues

designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations as useful

tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best

when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the

facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

21. Call a parliamentary committee study, Supreme court test, or other

empowered investigative body.// Subvert the (process) to your benefit and

effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without true public input. Once

convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be acceptable to the

committee/court as evidence when properly handled, damaging evidence can be

discarded. For instance, if you own the judicial/committee officials, it can

insure an official hearing hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is

sealed, refused or buried and unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once

a favorable verdict (usually, this technique is applied to find the govt.

innocent, but it can also be used to obtain authority when seeking to extend

govt. powers) is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed.

22. Manufacture a new truth./ Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s),

leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via

scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes

favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so

authoritatively.

23. Create bigger distractions./ If the above does not seem to be working

to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of

unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them

as such) to distract the multitudes.

24. Silence critics./ If the above methods do not prevail, consider

removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the

need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their meeting

with an accident, an arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their

character by release of damaging information, or merely by proper

intimidation with blackmail or other threats.

25. Vanish or seek less contentious employment./ If you are a key holder

of dirty secrets or otherwise overly operationally illuminated and you think

the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen. Find a

cozy non controversial plumb in the public or private sector (secured with

your party loyalty) and evade the heat your policies have created. Or if you

really *****ED up a lot of people....vacate to a third world dictatorship

that understands your brand of politics where your tax swollen bank account

will allow you to live like a king.

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Listen what L tells you when we talk about ETA. ;)

I can talk hours on it.

I can talk for hours about Atlantis but it doesn't mean anyone will listen.... :tu:

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That can only achive wise men. Fool defenetly not. And it basic rules.

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I can talk for hours about Atlantis but it doesn't mean anyone will listen.... :tu:

Oh I listen. I soak your posts as much as time allow me. Im prepearing one thread about Atlantis ...about my little research. Maybe there we can discuss about it.

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Oh I listen. I soak your posts as much as time allow me. Im prepearing one thread about Atlantis ...about my little research. Maybe there we can discuss about it.

I faced quite a few things that you mentioned in your 'laws of politics' post right here in UM when i was discussing 'Evolution' on one of the forums.I would say people at UM are pretty political then.

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Oh I listen. I soak your posts as much as time allow me. Im prepearing one thread about Atlantis ...about my little research. Maybe there we can discuss about it.

Cool, certainly.

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I faced quite a few things that you mentioned in your 'laws of politics' post right here in UM when i was discussing 'Evolution' on one of the forums.I would say people at UM are pretty political then.

You forget about first rule. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. B):P

I didnt notice what you say. I found people open minded, social, friendly and polite. Ofcourse there are exception.

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I can talk for hours about Atlantis but it doesn't mean anyone will listen.... :tu:

Okay is it right time that you spoke and I listen? Is it time that we spoke about Atlantis?

Where will we do it? Public private? Do we need to start new thread? Maybe threads? Tells me first where you see Atlantis?

Because I see it in three different places as possible. West Africa/Spain, In the north. And Egypt....So.

You know how they tell...Ladies first.

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